Luxury Goods as Construction Resources (Full Version)

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Sabranan -> Luxury Goods as Construction Resources (4/22/2017 2:40:12 PM)

Anyone know if there's a reason the modding guide/text files tell you not to use luxury resources as requirements for components? From what I can tell the game lets you load mods that do this, so I don't really want my mod tool to block it unless it causes a real problem.




Overlord015 -> RE: Luxury Goods as Construction Resources (4/22/2017 3:44:59 PM)

In all likelihood its probably an issue of it probably wrecking havoc on the AI. I've experimented with making manufacturables a requirement for some common components (ex.constructions yards), and it essentially ensured that a good chunk of AI empires spent much of the game either underdeveloped or outright grounded due to shortages. Different issue, but might offer some insight as to what sort of interactions we're looking at here. Feel free to ask for details if interested.




Sabranan -> RE: Luxury Goods as Construction Resources (5/5/2017 4:40:45 PM)

To be fair I haven't been able to find any real reason not to do it. The AI seems to work fine as long as the resources are plentiful enough, just like with strategic resources.

So unless someone knows a particular issue this would cause I'm going to leave it so it just lets you know it's not recommended, rather than forcing modders not to use luxuries for construction.




Darkspire -> RE: Luxury Goods as Construction Resources (5/16/2017 6:49:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sabranan

Anyone know if there's a reason the modding guide/text files tell you not to use luxury resources as requirements for components? From what I can tell the game lets you load mods that do this, so I don't really want my mod tool to block it unless it causes a real problem.


Trade goods work fine with the AI as long as the design templates for all the races in the mod use them.

Darkspire




Sabranan -> RE: Luxury Goods as Construction Resources (5/17/2017 4:20:08 AM)

I'm not sure what you mean Darkspire? As far as I know, the design templates only include component types, they don't reference resources at all.




Darkspire -> RE: Luxury Goods as Construction Resources (5/17/2017 9:03:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sabranan

I'm not sure what you mean Darkspire? As far as I know, the design templates only include component types, they don't reference resources at all.


Trade Goods can be used as components if the mod is written from scratch, that is, built from the ground up so as to make sure there are no conflicts. Luxury goods will cause problems as you mentioned previously.

Darkspire




Hanekem -> RE: Luxury Goods as Construction Resources (1/22/2018 12:09:58 PM)

isn't Gold a luxury good for humans, besides being a strategic one?




BlindOne -> RE: Luxury Goods as Construction Resources (1/22/2018 10:56:52 PM)

I made a reactor use deneba crystals as a fuel source (not listed as a fuel source in resources just so you know) and it's build using luxury resources.

The reason why you don't want to use luxury resources though is because they don't show up as a lacking resource during construction. So you won't get messages popping up saying construction is stalled due to a lack of ''strategic'' resources, (because they are luxuries). This will lead the player to not know why the heck his ships arn't being finished.

It is also possible that freighters will not normally transport these ''required or otherwise lacking'' resources to the actual build site (untested) but I suspect they do not have in build ai checks for this.

So two reasons why you don't want to use luxuries for construction.

A) No tooltip to tell you construction is stalled due to a lack of ''luxury resources''
B) Freighters do not transport luxury resources as building resources to the required build site.

That's all I can tell you for now from my own testing.





Hattori Hanzo -> RE: Luxury Goods as Construction Resources (1/27/2018 2:17:11 AM)

BlindOne: do you made that reactor using "Deneba Crystal" as fuel sorce (and whose construction requires some unspecified luxury resources) in a particular mod of your own ?

and:

B) in the Space Port (or planet) where you are building that ship and/or base with that particular reactor, you should anyway see the missing necessary luxury resources in the Cargo list:

es: Jakanta Ivory Amt: 5 Rsvd: 38

isn't it ?




BlindOne -> RE: Luxury Goods as Construction Resources (1/28/2018 8:24:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hattori Hanzo

BlindOne: do you made that reactor using "Deneba Crystal" as fuel sorce (and whose construction requires some unspecified luxury resources) in a particular mod of your own ?


Yes I made it use Deneba Crystal as a fuel source. I was inspired by Stargate to create a Zero Point Module and I thought Deneba would be the most idealized rare crystal resource to represent the rarity of the components. Deneba is a super rare resource in my mod. I haven't properly tested the rarity yet tho. I made it appear as a super rare resource only 3x in the galaxy, once for ocean planets, once fo vulcanic planets and once for barren rocks.

The zero point module was made from 10 Deneba, 6 Yarras Marble, 4 Otandium Opal and 4 Ucantium Pearl and it runs on more Deneba Crystal as a fuel source. I gave it some insane fuel efficiency so it really never runs out of fuel for decades of ingame use [:'(]. It is essentially a low energy output reactor with a massive storage capacity and insane energy efficiency. It basically never runs out of fuel but it doesn't provide a whole lot of power at once, it relies on you storing a lot of power when the ship is out of combat and releasing that energy like a stored battery while in combat. I thought it was a funny idea as an alternative to the other fuel sources.

but my new version is just made from Deneba and some strategic crystal resources such as dilithium crystal. It still runs on Deneba as a fuel source with INSANE efficiency :D like decades of power for one crystal input, just like in stargate.

The thing (or problem with them) is, the colony that is tasked to produce these modules won't issue a ''lack of resources to build x'' message. So at one point I was waiting for my test ship to launch with the zero point module installed only for me to find out that 1 component was still unfinished on the ship (the zero point module ofcourse) but the colony never reported a resource shortage, it was just fine having it sit there idle and unfinished.

I only tested this so far with one home colony, I'll run my real test game this week or so. I don't think the AI will handle it very well because they'll just queue up the construction of ships that will never get finished and it won't know what to do to fix it.

Sidenote: It is possible/advised to flag a resource as a potential fuel source in the resources.txt if it is used as such, I did NOT do this for the Deneba, I set it up as a super luxury resource and it seems the game has no problem using and detecting Deneba as a fuel source even despite the lack of this flag. I suspect that the flag is actually used for the AI to transport fuel with freighters and ensure that colonies are supplied with the proper fuel source for ships. So not adding the flag might create problems in the future but I do not intend/expect the AI to use the ZPM feature, it is a fun alternative for players who pick my race to play as. My added race are a sort of space elves who almost rely exclusively on super rare resources to actually be useful [;)] their victory is based on controlling the galactic trade in rare resources and they are essentially useless without them too. One could say they're like drug addicted super race but useless without their crystal and spice fix [:'(]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hattori Hanzo

B) in the Space Port (or planet) where you are building that ship and/or base with that particular reactor, you should anyway see the missing necessary luxury resources in the Cargo list:

es: Jakanta Ivory Amt: 5 Rsvd: 38

isn't it ?


No you can't reserve more than is available in luxury resources from what I've seen (so far). My Deneba was at 514 and reserved 514 even though there was clearly demand for more. I don't know if you can reserve more than is available at the colony though because I only tested it with one planet. It might have a higher reserve potential if more deneba was available at other colonies, but I haven't tested this yet. I'll keep you posted if you wish to know.

So in one test game I set the tech level at 7 so all the ships were prebuild with the zero point module as a standard reactor from the get go (including private freighters etc) and they all queued up the deneba to refuel or to construct new private ships. So my stored Deneba was at 514 and reserved 514...and with no active source to mine more deneba from at that point everything in construction stalled and no colony resource shortage message was posted. Although I could ofcourse see in the cargo list that it was the deneba that was truly lacking because it was maxed out (514) and no source for new deneba existed yet... Thatīs why itīs a test game ofcourse :D When I added Deneba as a planet resource (cheated it in ofcourse) construction resumed.

I hope I could answer all your curiosities. I'll release my mod once I've finished properly smooth lining everything if you are interested in it. It's essentially Baconmod + RetreatUE as a base + all community enhancements + my personal taste. One thing that bothered me was that I couldn't properly add Deneba Crystal as a linked resource in the resource visual index article of the galactopedia. I've not seen any other mod actually do this either with any of the resources they added so far so I suspect it is not even possible.[:'(] I'm glad I realized that in time because I almost tried to stay awake for 4-6 days using meth trying to learn HTML coding on the fly to fix this bug when it is clearly not even fixable but luckily then this word of wisdom (like a voice inside my head, yes I am that kind of guy) came to me before I started that mad project and told me ''The hyperlink does not exist! Stop working you fool''.[8D]

Hope I answered all your questions. Otherwise feel free to ask me anything.




Hattori Hanzo -> RE: Luxury Goods as Construction Resources (1/28/2018 9:22:10 PM)

interesting ideas Blind One: I particularly like the new race of Space Elves "addicted" to some rare resources [:D]

I would like to try your mod when it will be ready: do you have the intention to made it public ?




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