Shuin Sakusen (B-MOD Hotei (J) vs Falken (A)) (Full Version)

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Hotei -> Shuin Sakusen (B-MOD Hotei (J) vs Falken (A)) (2/15/2017 4:10:57 PM)

(This AAR is more about getting help when the need arises and giving a general picture of the operations, I will not have time to report every detail or turn.)

Shuin Sakusen (Operation Red Seal)

[image]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/JapaneseTrade17thCentury.jpg[/image]


quote:

Japanese Red seal trade in the early 17th century.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_seal_ships







Hotei -> RE: Shuin Sakusen (B-MOD Hotei (J) vs walkerd (A)) (2/18/2017 11:32:03 PM)

[:)]




witpqs -> RE: Shuin Sakusen (B-MOD Hotei (J) vs walkerd (A)) (2/18/2017 11:35:39 PM)

Probably the same reason no one ever just stands down all the KB's aircraft and parks them one hex off of Pearl Harbor until they are all sunk.




Hotei -> RE: Shuin Sakusen (B-MOD Hotei (J) vs walkerd (A)) (2/18/2017 11:40:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Probably the same reason no one ever just stands down all the KB's aircraft and parks them one hex off of Pearl Harbor until they are all sunk.


[:)]




witpqs -> RE: Shuin Sakusen (B-MOD Hotei (J) vs walkerd (A)) (2/18/2017 11:44:18 PM)

OK, I'll be direct: "Because it's a really bad idea."

But if you think it worthy to try, try it. Gain experience with how it works out. [8D]




Hotei -> RE: Shuin Sakusen (B-MOD Hotei (J) vs walkerd (A)) (2/18/2017 11:52:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

OK, I'll be direct: "Because it's a really bad idea."

But if you think it worthy to try, try it. Gain experience with how it works out. [8D]


[:)]




witpqs -> RE: Shuin Sakusen (B-MOD Hotei (J) vs walkerd (A)) (2/19/2017 12:17:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hotei


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

OK, I'll be direct: "Because it's a really bad idea."

But if you think it worthy to try, try it. Gain experience with how it works out. [8D]


Why is it a bad idea?
When you pass Pearl you have Manila and the submarines left, they also are no sure thing if your hit goes badly.
What are you giving up?
You are giving up damaging/destroying anything with KB on turn 1. Unless your mod or rules say turn it off, Japan has surprise on turn 1. It helps a great deal for attacks that day.
My priority target after carriers are long range search capable planes, you can get some in the Philippines with LBA.
In my experience long range search planes are destroyed in greatest numbers at Pearl Harbor on turn 1.
Hiding KB will make the allies hesitant to act anywhere or with good luck even getting a shot at the carriers.
It is a pretty standard rule "no carrier hunting on turn 1" because the Japan player knows exactly where they start, something which was not true in real life. Some PBM partners extend that to turns 2 or 3, but IMO turn 1 is appropriate. So if you do have such a rule (no carrier hunting on turn 1), do you plan to search for the carriers, or do you plan to hide KB to keep the Allied player guessing? You are saying both and those options conflict with each other.

The Allies don't NEED to use their carriers early, they can wait for more to arrive to strengthen the fleet. If you get the Allied carriers good for you, but if you don't then you have held back your most potent offensive weapon for nothing. You have denied use of it to your various expansion operations.




witpqs -> RE: Shuin Sakusen (B-MOD Hotei (J) vs walkerd (A)) (2/19/2017 12:20:10 AM)

And if you do plan to hunt for the Allied carriers after turn 1, what is your plan for doing that? Do you think that KB will remain undetected during such a hunt, even without finding and engaging the Allied carriers?




Hotei -> RE: Shuin Sakusen (B-MOD Hotei (J) vs walkerd (A)) (2/19/2017 12:20:13 AM)

[:)]




witpqs -> RE: Shuin Sakusen (B-MOD Hotei (J) vs walkerd (A)) (2/19/2017 12:20:43 AM)

My second post crossed with yours.




Hotei -> RE: Shuin Sakusen (B-MOD Hotei (J) vs walkerd (A)) (2/19/2017 12:24:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

And if you do plan to hunt for the Allied carriers after turn 1, what is your plan for doing that? Do you think that KB will remain undetected during such a hunt, even without finding and engaging the Allied carriers?


No allied carrier hunting in the plans in the first turn.





witpqs -> RE: Shuin Sakusen (B-MOD Hotei (J) vs walkerd (A)) (2/19/2017 12:32:34 AM)

In that case, IMO you are allowing the existence of the USN carriers to tie the KB to a plan of inaction.




Hotei -> RE: Shuin Sakusen (B-MOD Hotei (J) vs walkerd (A)) (2/19/2017 12:35:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

In that case, IMO you are allowing the existence of the USN carriers to tie the KB to a plan of inaction.


[:)]




Hotei -> RE: Shuin Sakusen (B-MOD Hotei (J) vs walkerd (A)) (2/19/2017 1:00:46 AM)

[:)]




Hotei -> RE: Shuin Sakusen (B-MOD Hotei (J) vs walkerd (A)) (2/19/2017 1:12:06 AM)

[:)]




Lowpe -> RE: Shuin Sakusen (B-MOD Hotei (J) vs walkerd (A)) (2/19/2017 1:20:37 AM)

You need to cripple Allied catalina forces and heavy bombers at start. Losses at Pearl are almost 0 if you let the fighters bomb from 7000 feet instead of strafe.

You need to tie up Pearls repair facilities at start.

You need to gain victory points at every favorable chance you can.

You need to to make an honest effort to sink Force Z. If you can bomb the subs in manila, so much the better.

The CS are unreliable, I see you know that. save them and the fuel for when you can stuff Rufes on them.

You can use sig int to mislead Allied...but you have to know that your opponent will look at it and react accordingly.

nagasaki is a poor major port for you to use.







Hotei -> RE: Shuin Sakusen (B-MOD Hotei (J) vs walkerd (A)) (2/19/2017 1:45:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

You need to cripple Allied catalina forces and heavy bombers at start. Losses at Pearl are almost 0 if you let the fighters bomb from 7000 feet instead of strafe.

You need to tie up Pearls repair facilities at start.

You need to gain victory points at every favorable chance you can.

You need to to make an honest effort to sink Force Z. If you can bomb the subs in manila, so much the better.

The CS are unreliable, I see you know that. save them and the fuel for when you can stuff Rufes on them.

You can use sig int to mislead Allied...but you have to know that your opponent will look at it and react accordingly.

nagasaki is a poor major port for you to use.






[:)]




Hotei -> RE: Shuin Sakusen (B-MOD Hotei (J) vs walkerd (A)) (2/19/2017 4:28:44 AM)

[:)]




Hotei -> RE: Shuin Sakusen (B-MOD Hotei (J) vs walkerd (A)) (2/19/2017 4:53:29 AM)

[:)]




Hotei -> RE: Shuin Sakusen (B-MOD Hotei (J) vs walkerd (A)) (2/19/2017 5:17:09 AM)




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1EyedJacks -> RE: Shuin Sakusen (B-MOD Hotei (J) vs walkerd (A)) (2/19/2017 6:49:55 AM)

I like to use my carriers as often as possible so the crews gain experience. At the start of the war one of your major strengths is that your naval pilots have much more experience than the allies. I try to get my training program on-line right away so I can start add good pilots to my air groups. Later in the war the allies will field better aircraft and your superiority in experienced pilots will wither away.

I also like to use my BB to bombard a lot. This helps them build up experience. When I use float planes as spotters during bombardments I get better results.

Have you decided how deep you plan to go into the Pacific to form your defensive ring? Besides China and the DEI, what are your goals? India? Oz? I'm just curious :-)




Hotei -> RE: Shuin Sakusen (B-MOD Hotei (J) vs walkerd (A)) (2/19/2017 7:07:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks

I like to use my carriers as often as possible so the crews gain experience. At the start of the war one of your major strengths is that your naval pilots have much more experience than the allies. I try to get my training program on-line right away so I can start add good pilots to my air groups. Later in the war the allies will field better aircraft and your superiority in experienced pilots will wither away.

I also like to use my BB to bombard a lot. This helps them build up experience. When I use float planes as spotters during bombardments I get better results.

Have you decided how deep you plan to go into the Pacific to form your defensive ring? Besides China and the DEI, what are your goals? India? Oz? I'm just curious :-)


This mod gives me a very skilled starting pilot pool, they are almost all "yellow".





Lowpe -> RE: Shuin Sakusen (B-MOD Hotei (J) vs walkerd (A)) (2/19/2017 12:53:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hotei

I also have some unconventional ideas on the KB and IJN LBA units that I wont yet share here. [:D]



Cool! Can't wait.


There are a couple of deep water hexes where the Allies always stack subs to the due west. Also no oil refinery there. Nagasaki, I mean. Plus other reasons...[;)]





Hotei -> RE: Shuin Sakusen (B-MOD Hotei (J) vs walkerd (A)) (2/19/2017 3:38:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hotei

I also have some unconventional ideas on the KB and IJN LBA units that I wont yet share here. [:D]



Cool! Can't wait.


There are a couple of deep water hexes where the Allies always stack subs to the due west. Also no oil refinery there. Nagasaki, I mean. Plus other reasons...[;)]







What other reasons in Nagasaki?




Lowpe -> RE: Shuin Sakusen (B-MOD Hotei (J) vs walkerd (A)) (2/19/2017 7:41:39 PM)

Fukuoka is sheltered, gets to a level 10 port and Shimoneski has a refinery for better oil handling.







Hotei -> RE: Shuin Sakusen (B-MOD Hotei (J) vs walkerd (A)) (2/20/2017 2:11:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Fukuoka is sheltered, gets to a level 10 port and Shimoneski has a refinery for better oil handling.






[:)]




Hotei -> RE: Shuin Sakusen (B-MOD Hotei (J) vs walkerd (A)) (2/20/2017 2:54:32 PM)

[:)]




Hotei -> RE: Shuin Sakusen (B-MOD Hotei (J) vs walkerd (A)) (2/20/2017 7:18:13 PM)

The mod has increased the rate of fire for the big guns of the BBs and CAs.






Hotei -> RE: Shuin Sakusen (B-MOD Hotei (J) vs walkerd (A)) (2/22/2017 7:28:13 AM)

The first turn is sent, hope that there are no tech problems and we both have the same mod running correctly.

[image]http://banzaiskydiver.com/MuSgzyHU5CRAuUd/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Japanese-Soldier-WWII.jpg[/image]




Hotei -> RE: Shuin Sakusen (B-MOD Hotei (J) vs walkerd (A)) (2/22/2017 3:10:38 PM)

So it seems I messed the turn and sent my orders as Japan to the opponent for him to see.
Trying to trace what the hell I did there, I thought I followed the instructions to the letter.




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