B-Mod Update (Full Version)

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Big B -> B-Mod Update (2/12/2017 8:11:09 PM)

I believe I have gotten it where I always wanted it.

See READ ME file - here:


Maybe now I can see about an honest 'What-If?' someday




Falken -> RE: B-Mod, Last Update (2/12/2017 8:44:58 PM)

Thanks Brian.

Excellent Mod. I use this for my H2H Solitaire games. It will also be interesting to see how John's BTS Version, based on yours, will play differently from their existing DBB version.

I'm hoping that John will also be able to incorporate any last minute fixes that you have been able to update yours with.

Fan as always, Dave....




Big B -> RE: B-Mod, Last Update (2/12/2017 8:55:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Falken

Thanks Brian.

Excellent Mod. I use this for my H2H Solitaire games. It will also be interesting to see how John's BTS Version, based on yours, will play differently from their existing DBB version.

I'm hoping that John will also be able to incorporate any last minute fixes that you have been able to update yours with.

Fan as always, Dave....



Thanks Falken,
I don't know if John can update his massive work to this - he'll have to do quite a bit - essentially re-do China again. It would be nice but we'll see.

I am including below a couple graphics I included on my READ ME file, and last comments on modelling China...
By the way - I failed in THIS post to give a proper nod to the RHS Development Team - Acknowledged in pioneering where I took it.

quote:


[A last word about China: The main emphasis of this mod has been to drag this wonderful game into a more historical/realistic simulation of WW2 in Asia/Pacific.
The biggest challenge has proven to be recreating the situation in China. The engine is built on a system of supply that works well enough for the industrial nations of Japan and the Western Allies, but totally fails to represent China.
The point of redefining Chinese supply is a game decision made to still make the industrial powers work in the game, while allowing China to historically perform as she did in WW2. This has been accomplished mainly by giving China a large proportion of Daily Supply to suppliment the Japanese and Western styled supply system.
This problem has been acknowledged by the original developers since the first days of the original War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945
when the developers decided to include China - mainly as a way to train Japanese air units.
Since then, the total war of Japan has taken a life of it's own, leaving China easy meat to be conquered in most competitive PBEM Games....altering any historical semblance to a recognizable simulation of WW2 against Japan.
For this reason China has been radically altered (though fairly true to real Chinese OOB) as well as giving China it's means to carry on a war against Japan independent of Western Allied supply assistance (which on balance was negligable).

Hopefully, historical minded players will appreciate the work done to make this happen.]




[image]local://upfiles/16855/68D2FE1AA26C45A181DF3177C5BBA7EB.jpg[/image]




Hotei -> RE: B-Mod, Last Update (2/12/2017 10:54:57 PM)

This seems very interesting, I will download this for sure, thank you for your work.




Big B -> RE: B-Mod, Last Update (2/12/2017 11:43:11 PM)

Thank you,
Give it a try - you'll never go back if you want something realistic [;)]




Hotei -> RE: B-Mod, Last Update (2/13/2017 12:30:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Big B

Thank you,
Give it a try - you'll never go back if you want something realistic [;)]



First comments from the Japanese point of view.

I opened up the game and could tell from the start that China is very difficult for Japan now, well done.
More PPs in play will actually benefit the allies more, most likely the Japanese wont get to buy many units from the Chinese front but might have to use them to move units in.
The pilots now available would change my previous strategies in using air power, Japan would have strong air superiority at the start.

I dont know what allied players think but I would be happy to play this scenario as it does seem to fix China.

Pacific War started in China and it was the main effort of Japan for most of the war, your scenario gives a new and historical challenge for the players.





Big B -> RE: B-Mod, Last Update (2/13/2017 12:49:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hotei

First comments from the Japanese point of view.

I opened up the game and could tell from the start that China is very difficult for Japan now, well done.
More PPs in play will actually benefit the allies more, most likely the Japanese wont get to buy many units from the Chinese front but might have to use them to move units in.
The pilots now available would change my previous strategies in using air power, Japan would have strong air superiority at the start.

I dont know what allied players think but I would be happy to play this scenario as it does seem to fix China.

Pacific War started in China and it was the main effort of Japan for most of the war, your scenario gives a new and historical challenge for the players.





Thank you, I designed it as a double edged sword...
Experience in playing has shown me it is challenging for a Japanese player.
If a Japanese player insists on trying to conquer all of China - he will most likely entangle himself in a Tar-Baby he can't escape by freeing up Chinese units that could never otherwise move.
On the other hand, if a Japanese player ignores China - he will find himself reeling from counter attack eventually.
It should (as I have seen, and designed) be a headache for Japan...but a Japan with a stronger Air Force - than in stock.

Good Grief!

B

EDIT: It should prove to be very much - a player's game of judgement




Hotei -> RE: B-Mod, Last Update (2/13/2017 1:10:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Big B

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hotei

First comments from the Japanese point of view.

I opened up the game and could tell from the start that China is very difficult for Japan now, well done.
More PPs in play will actually benefit the allies more, most likely the Japanese wont get to buy many units from the Chinese front but might have to use them to move units in.
The pilots now available would change my previous strategies in using air power, Japan would have strong air superiority at the start.

I dont know what allied players think but I would be happy to play this scenario as it does seem to fix China.

Pacific War started in China and it was the main effort of Japan for most of the war, your scenario gives a new and historical challenge for the players.





Thank you, I designed it as a double edged sword...
Experience in playing has shown me it is challenging for a Japanese player.
If a Japanese player insists on trying to conquer all of China - he will most likely entangle himself in a Tar-Baby he can't escape by freeing up Chinese units that could never otherwise move.
On the other hand, if a Japanese player ignores China - he will find himself reeling from counter attack eventually.
It should (as I have seen, and designed) be a headache for Japan...but a Japan with a stronger Air Force - than in stock.

Good Grief!

B

EDIT: It should prove to be very much - a player's game of judgement


I want to try this in my PBEM, I feel this is new sandbox where I want to play.[:D]




Big B -> RE: B-Mod, Last Update (2/13/2017 1:16:13 AM)

Thanks Hotei,
Remember - there are NO NEW UNITS, Nor any units that didn't exist, but it's going to be real challenge for an experienced Japanese Player, and a real Challenge for an experienced ALLIED Player, because the IJA and IJN Air units are substantially stronger that stock.

I wanted it to be realistic and a headache for everyone. :-)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hotei


quote:

ORIGINAL: Big B

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hotei

First comments from the Japanese point of view.

I opened up the game and could tell from the start that China is very difficult for Japan now, well done.
More PPs in play will actually benefit the allies more, most likely the Japanese wont get to buy many units from the Chinese front but might have to use them to move units in.
The pilots now available would change my previous strategies in using air power, Japan would have strong air superiority at the start.

I dont know what allied players think but I would be happy to play this scenario as it does seem to fix China.

Pacific War started in China and it was the main effort of Japan for most of the war, your scenario gives a new and historical challenge for the players.





Thank you, I designed it as a double edged sword...
Experience in playing has shown me it is challenging for a Japanese player.
If a Japanese player insists on trying to conquer all of China - he will most likely entangle himself in a Tar-Baby he can't escape by freeing up Chinese units that could never otherwise move.
On the other hand, if a Japanese player ignores China - he will find himself reeling from counter attack eventually.
It should (as I have seen, and designed) be a headache for Japan...but a Japan with a stronger Air Force - than in stock.

Good Grief!

B

EDIT: It should prove to be very much - a player's game of judgement


I want to try this in my PBEM, I feel this is new sandbox where I want to play.[:D]





Hotei -> RE: B-Mod, Last Update (2/13/2017 1:26:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Big B

Thanks Hotei,
Remember - there are NO NEW UNITS, Nor any units that didn't exist, but it's going to be real challenge for an experienced Japanese Player, and a real Challenge for an experienced ALLIED Player, because the IJA and IJN Air units are substantially stronger that stock.

I wanted it to be realistic and a headache for everyone. :-)






But USN does get working torpedoes sooner so these changes seem to go both directions.
Also allies get to buy more units from restricted commands and is also a boost for them.

Can this still be played PDU on in your opinion and not be an unfair jump start for Japan?
I am a novice player in PBEM, do you think this scenario is too difficult for a first time player?





DOCUP -> RE: B-Mod, Last Update (2/13/2017 1:40:56 AM)

I would like to see a what if mod from you.




Big B -> RE: B-Mod, Last Update (2/13/2017 1:58:20 AM)

OK, you have gone where no one else has asked - Finally
I have explored the War time sub patrol records of most subs of 1942
Then I ran 24 test games of 13 months to see results - real time was some 625 hours.

Here is the results:

With USN Torpedoe Dud Rate On - Sinkings avg = (in game) 50.08 in 12 months (divided by 12 games)
With USN Dud Rate Off - (In 12 months) 149.5

Historical USN Fleet-boat rate for 1942= Warships 15, merchants 152.

So, with the USN MK 14 Torpedo adjustment, it should be dead on accurate. Figure below.


quote]ORIGINAL: Hotei


quote:

ORIGINAL: Big B

Thanks Hotei,
Remember - there are NO NEW UNITS, Nor any units that didn't exist, but it's going to be real challenge for an experienced Japanese Player, and a real Challenge for an experienced ALLIED Player, because the IJA and IJN Air units are substantially stronger that stock.

I wanted it to be realistic and a headache for everyone. :-)






But USN does get working torpedoes sooner so these changes seem to go both directions.
Also allies get to buy more units from restricted commands and is also a boost for them.

Can this still be played PDU on in your opinion and not be an unfair jump start for Japan?
I am a novice player in PBEM, do you think this scenario is too difficult for a first time player?





[image]local://upfiles/16855/1C64AE343E8A468A93587589B0D6C182.jpg[/image]




Big B -> RE: B-Mod, Last Update (2/13/2017 2:08:03 AM)

Historical 1942 sinkings by USN Fleetboats as counted by JANAC Summary = https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/Japan/IJN/JANAC-Losses/JANAC-Losses-6.html

Sorry but the summary is not easily viewible, but the real record is:
Historical USN Fleet-boat rate for 1942= Warships 15, merchants 152.

SO - if you want real historical effect - leave USN Sub torpedoes Dud rate OFF in game terms




Hotei -> RE: B-Mod, Last Update (2/13/2017 2:30:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Big B

Historical 1942 sinkings by USN Fleetboats as counted by JANAC Summary = https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/Japan/IJN/JANAC-Losses/JANAC-Losses-6.html

Sorry but the summary is not easily viewible, but the real record is:
Historical USN Fleet-boat rate for 1942= Warships 15, merchants 152.

SO - if you want real historical effect - leave USN Sub torpedoes Dud rate OFF in game terms



Good to know, I did not understand that the setting had to be off.




Big B -> RE: B-Mod, Last Update (2/13/2017 2:35:12 AM)

Well, I only tell anyone what I have researched and found.
Most Japanese Players want an expanded Japanese Start...cool enough... but no where near real...... makes me wonder what the heck some folks want in an historical game.

But I digress - please play and have fun.


B

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hotei


quote:

ORIGINAL: Big B

Historical 1942 sinkings by USN Fleetboats as counted by JANAC Summary = https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/Japan/IJN/JANAC-Losses/JANAC-Losses-6.html

Sorry but the summary is not easily viewible, but the real record is:
Historical USN Fleet-boat rate for 1942= Warships 15, merchants 152.

SO - if you want real historical effect - leave USN Sub torpedoes Dud rate OFF in game terms



Good to know, I did not understand that the setting had to be off.





Big B -> RE: B-Mod, Last Update (2/13/2017 2:49:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DOCUP

I would like to see a what if mod from you.



Thanks DOCUP... now that I feel I have a realistic baseline - I'll work on that. ;)




Hotei -> RE: B-Mod, Last Update (2/13/2017 3:31:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Big B

Well, I only tell anyone what I have researched and found.
Most Japanese Players want an expanded Japanese Start...cool enough... but no where near real...... makes me wonder what the heck some folks want in an historical game.

But I digress - please play and have fun.


B






Can you confirm what preferences and game settings should be used with your mod? [:)]





Big B -> RE: B-Mod, Last Update (2/13/2017 3:45:31 PM)


Any settings you like really....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hotei



Can you confirm what preferences and game settings should be used with your mod? [:)]







Hotei -> RE: B-Mod, Last Update (2/13/2017 3:55:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Big B


Any settings you like really....





I like these.

Fog of War: On
Adv. Weather Effects: On
Allied Damage Control: On
Player Def. Upgrades: On
Historical First Turn: Off
Dec. 7th Surprise: On
Reliable USN Torpedoes: Off
Realistic R&D: On
No Unit Withdrawals: Off
Reinforcement: +/-15
Auto Sub OPS: Off
Set All Factories to Expand at Start: Off
Auto upgrade Ships and Air Groups: Off
Accept Air & Ground Replacements: Off
Turn Cycle: 1




TOMLABEL -> RE: B-Mod, Last Update (2/14/2017 3:16:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Big B
I believe I have gotten it where I always wanted it.


You never cease to amaze!!![&o][&o][&o]

Thanks again, Brian!!

TOMLABEL




Big B -> RE: B-Mod, Last Update (2/18/2017 11:30:42 PM)

Thanks Kelley,
I and a friend are embroiled in a PBEM with a very aggressive opponent now... it's quite bloody for everyone...who knows where this is headed.. :)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TOMLABEL


quote:

ORIGINAL: Big B
I believe I have gotten it where I always wanted it.


You never cease to amaze!!![&o][&o][&o]

Thanks again, Brian!!

TOMLABEL





Reg -> RE: B-Mod, Last Update (3/4/2017 1:15:05 AM)

Hi Brian,

Do the China OOB changes and extended map break the AI??

(Since you made no wholesale changes to the rest of the OOB imply the AI scripts may work...)

You don't explicitly state this aspect in the doco (as far as I can see).

Thanks,




Big B -> RE: B-Mod, Last Update (3/4/2017 4:42:35 PM)

The AI seems to work as normal, the locations scripted haven't changed, and their data base slots still reference their locations.

Thanks [:)]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reg

Hi Brian,

Do the China OOB changes and extended map break the AI??

(Since you made no wholesale changes to the rest of the OOB imply the AI scripts may work...)

You don't explicitly state this aspect in the doco (as far as I can see).

Thanks,






AlessandroD -> RE: B-Mod, Last Update (3/28/2017 10:02:53 PM)

Hello Big B,

thanks for your mod [&o]

I and a friend want to start a game and we are more interested to follow an historical perspective (or whatever that means after the first mouse click!) that trying to win at all cost, therefore after reading your update we are willing to give it a try.

Quick question: in the B-MOD: AE site you suggest to play with the 1.7.11.24 patch, why the open beta patch is escluded?
No complaint at all, just asking [:)]

Also, do you think some HRs will be needed?

Edit: are some DBB features included in this mod? (i.e flak, ASW, etc.)

Thanks

Btw: we really like your China changes and the new ships durability!




Big B -> RE: B-Mod, Last Update (3/29/2017 7:43:37 PM)

Hello AlessandroD,

I didn't mean to exclude the open beta patch, I merely wanted players to patch up to the latest official version - but the beta patch is fine also if both use it.
House rules? I can't think of any that are necessary, but that's really up to you and your opponent - so long as you both get a game you can enjoy [:)]

Thank you, and enjoy!


quote:

ORIGINAL: AlessandroD

Hello Big B,

thanks for your mod [&o]

I and a friend want to start a game and we are more interested to follow an historical perspective (or whatever that means after the first mouse click!) that trying to win at all cost, therefore after reading your update we are willing to give it a try.

Quick question: in the B-MOD: AE site you suggest to play with the 1.7.11.24 patch, why the open beta patch is escluded?
No complaint at all, just asking [:)]

Also, do you think some HRs will be needed?

Edit: are some DBB features included in this mod? (i.e flak, ASW, etc.)

Thanks

Btw: we really like your China changes and the new ships durability!





AlessandroD -> RE: B-Mod, Last Update (3/30/2017 6:59:51 PM)

Thanks you too, an AAR is underway [:)]




AlessandroD -> RE: B-Mod, Last Update (4/11/2017 6:51:29 PM)

Hello Big B,

I'm having trouble running WitP Tracker for your mod, do you have any hint how to resolve this issue?
See this post for further details.

Thanks in advance




sanderz -> RE: B-Mod, Last Update (4/11/2017 6:53:22 PM)

BigB

As Japan there seems to be no production of resources and other stuff - see AlessandroD's post in the Tracker section of this forum.

Not sure if this is a mod problem or a bad install - please could you check

many thanks




Big B -> RE: B-Mod, Last Update (4/11/2017 7:21:19 PM)

I don't see any problems with Japanese production...nothing was touched that would affect that.
I'm not sure what the Tracker issues is, I'm currently 7 months into a PBEM with the same scenario and there have been no production issues in this game (I have several games under the belt amounting to several years and have never seen an issue here).

I do not use Tracker, so I'm not familiar with it - but maybe someone who knows Tracker can take a look?

quote:

ORIGINAL: sanderz

BigB

As Japan there seems to be no production of resources and other stuff - see AlessandroD's post in the Tracker section of this forum.

Not sure if this is a mod problem or a bad install - please could you check

many thanks





BillBrown -> RE: B-Mod, Last Update (4/11/2017 7:29:08 PM)

I looked and there does not seem to be any problem. There is the expected production listed in Tracker.




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