RE: Four Seasons with Models (Full Version)

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Twotribes -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (10/31/2019 9:37:32 PM)

Mattpilot in order to edit most things in a game you need to disable the master file. If you start something with the scenario load that doesn't require that if you start a game with random then you do. It just enables you to edit stuff it doesn't take away anything.

mattpilot -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (10/31/2019 11:44:18 PM)

hmm.. interesting. I see now and i seem to be able to edit things. But how can i play a random map after editing things? I see no ability to save or .. something.

Twotribes -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (11/1/2019 12:41:16 AM)

When in edit mod just go to the bottom row of commands like in a regular game and click on the computer symbol and save that way it will only save in a game for that game if you wanna edit scenarios so it effects every time you use that master open the scenario file rather then starting a new game. Be warned if you edit a scenario and give it the same save name you will be eliminating the stock game. I always name it like what ever the scenario name is and ad mod to the name to distinguish the different set ups.

mattpilot -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (11/1/2019 1:46:41 AM)

Ah i think i got it now. So i saved the edited file. Then got back to the main menu, started a "random" game, and during the options i changed the 'file' at the bottom center of the menu and loaded my 'savegame' ... It seems to have worked just fine with my edited test figures. I assume i did this right?


Ormand -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (11/1/2019 2:48:28 AM)

Mattpilot: I generally agree with you and will make propose some modifications soon. It probably can't be until Sunday though because: 1) my computer is getting a brain transplant, 2) the dirty four letter word is hitting me, and 3) Saturday I'll go up north for a little road trip to pick up some wine now that things have quieted down with the fires and power outages. Hopefully, it stays that way. But, I have some ideas how to make things better. The brain transplant started last night, and is not quite finished yet.

To edit the map, you don't need to disable the masterfile, but to make changes to any of the other stuff, yep.

I am not sure if I can make the AI build a shipyard. OK, yes I can, but I doubt it will go where I want. Although, maybe if I made them so that they could only be built on a beach or suburb. I would have to check that. The factories are placed by an internal algorithm, and that probably checks terrains where they can be built. But, the problem is that it will possibly build it on a lake.

The same can be done placing them with a random start. I can easily check if a city or capital has a sea hex next to it, and then try to place a shipyard next to it. The problem is that it is hard to check if it a port that makes sense. The same with a fleet. It can be done, but some of them will be rather stupidly placed.

Hence, my solution was to edit the map. I would sometimes make an island with two regimes. Sort of "This Island Ain't Big Enough for the Two of Us". I edited the map to give both sides the same number of ports, OK, the AI one extra, placed a standard fleet in each and a sub fleet and a transport fleet in each capital. There were some furious naval battles.

There is possibly a flaw with the naval battles, which I think I tried to fix. This has to do with the first-round penalty. Generally, attacking units have a penalty for the first and second round. I think this puts the attacker at a disadvantage. You might kind of notice this that you sort of do better defending, but not when you attack. The same is true for aircraft. For ground forces, this simulates preparing and organizing the attack. Perhaps it should be lifted for air and naval forces.

Ormand -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (11/1/2019 2:51:29 AM)


ORIGINAL: mattpilot

Ah i think i got it now. So i saved the edited file. Then got back to the main menu, started a "random" game, and during the options i changed the 'file' at the bottom center of the menu and loaded my 'savegame' ... It seems to have worked just fine with my edited test figures. I assume i did this right?


Yep. You save the edited file as an at2 file. Then, you press the load scenario button, and load that file. Then, you play it. The save buttons in the editor are the same as in the regular game. An advanced feature of the editor is that you can also access the model builder and the TOE. A little warning though is that when you start these, it will ask you which to regime to edit for, and if you don't put in a valid regime number it CTD.

ernieschwitz -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (11/1/2019 6:06:42 AM)


There is possibly a flaw with the naval battles, which I think I tried to fix. This has to do with the first-round penalty. Generally, attacking units have a penalty for the first and second round. I think this puts the attacker at a disadvantage. You might kind of notice this that you sort of do better defending, but not when you attack. The same is true for aircraft. For ground forces, this simulates preparing and organizing the attack. Perhaps it should be lifted for air and naval forces.

There is a setting in the SFTs Screen, where you can change it. I think it is called First Round Penalty, and if you set it to 0 it won't have it.

mattpilot -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (11/1/2019 6:27:34 AM)

So... if i jack up the cost of supply to say 10, does the AI know how to deal with it? I'd like it higher, so i can limit the amount of units a player can support, but i fear the AI will just produce until it suffocates.... or does it actually check its supply level and turn off production?

ernieschwitz -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (11/1/2019 6:35:02 AM)

It does check how much supply it needs. That is hard coded. But, it doesn't take into account that not all production sites (factories!) can produce supplies. So it can outproduce with the help of those. A quick fix would be to let factories build supplies. (I think, I can't remember if the AI production events will make it so they don't).

Ormand -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (11/3/2019 6:28:58 AM)

The brain transplant is done.

I uploaded FourSeasons-at2-v3.12.atzip

I fixed the cheap fortification problem (also made it possible to build them in storm hexes - except haboob). Also, a similar problem was there for the inundation card.

I made numerous tweaks to SFTypes to address the questions we were discussing. Let me know what you think. This is sort of a list:

1. Mortars: Made more similar to infantry guns. Reduced from four to two attacks. Made attack the same as defense. Reduced armor attack. Put changes in specialty types

2. Infantry guns. Slightly better on defense. Same offense and defense firepower against arty, soft mod, armor, etc., but less than against infantry. Updated SP versions

3. Slight tweak to artillery. Updated SP versions

4. Balanced out dive bombers and level bombers. decreased anti-structure for dive bombers. Increased power for level bombers vs infantry.

5. Increased AAA for light cruisers

6. Made aircraft carriers more vulnerable to air attack by reducing HP.

7. Removed model concepts from compare list. There is no real reason for them to be there as they are more a shell.

I did some reading on the difference between mortars and infantry guns, and they are rather similar in capabilities. The main differences being the trajectory of the shells, their velocity, the ratio of HE to the shell weight, and at times infantry guns were used in direct fire mode. Their differences are fairly small. I gave them some differences that are in line with what I read, and make sense for a game.

I am curious what you think.

mattpilot -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (11/3/2019 1:14:11 PM)

Thanks for the update! Sounds like good changes. I'll give it a go after i finish my current game. Experimenting with higher supply production cost and having factories be able to produce supply as ernie suggested. I reduced production by half on factories, but trippled it for shipyards (but no supply production at shipyards). So far the AI seems to cope, sending appropriate sized units after me. Honestly didnt' think the AI would thin out its forces in the face of lower supplies.

LarryBurstyn -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (11/3/2019 4:34:22 PM)

Ship construction.

Liberty Ships were a ships designed to meet the needs of wartime fleet...the original design was done in the mid to late 1930's. They were large for that time as most cargo ships were small (5000 tons total while Liberty ships carried 10200 tons of cargo. They helped win WWII because we produced them faster than the Axis could sink them.

"The first ships required about 230 days to build (Patrick Henry took 244 days), but the average eventually dropped to 42 days. The record was set by SS Robert E. Peary, which was launched 4 days and 15 ​1⁄2 hours after the keel was laid, although this publicity stunt was not repeated..." (my emphasis=one ship every 6 weeks--most shipyards built MORE than one ship at a time depending upon how many dry docks the shipyard had--some large dry docks built more than one ship at a time but they had to be completed together.)

This is why I think a shipyard that only builds one ship every 6 weeks is unrealistic. But what is also unrealistic is that a shipyard could be built in one round (two weeks). If I knew how and it was possible i would set up shipyards to build more than one ship at a time but it would take a while to build each ship. Example--a shipyard would take six weeks to build a cargoship but could build 4 at a time. I would make each shipyard capable to producing 4 ships at a time but control the number of weeks it took to build the ships. Also shipyards would take several MONTHS to build--one way to do this might be to make 4 classes of shipyards in one location--each one taking a month to build but each capable to producing one ship. Not sure if stacking of location types is possible. How about a card(s) to produce ships playable only on shipyards and the card would detail how long the ship took to produce and how much of the yard the production used--it require some bookkeeping on the production level.

Thinking about it. Each shipyard could have 4 cards played on it. The cost would be deducted when the card is played. And the event would automatically place the ship when construction was done. Of course this means the AI would not be building ships in this manner????. This would work better when human was playing human. The event would take care of each shipyard and drydock and when the unit is produced...

ernieschwitz -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (11/3/2019 6:07:00 PM)

You can do some of the things Larry suggests.

For instance it is possible to set up an item (items are what is produced, SFTs is their representation) to build several SFTs at a time. At least if I recall correctly.

You could make it so that a shipyard building was done by card, in the way Larry suggested. It would require a stringlist, probably with one row (to identify the shipyard) where the x and y coordinates are stored, as well as what is being produced and how long it would take for each to be produced. Con: You probably wouldn't be able to change this production, at least not in any meaningful way, without a lot of code, I think (or the loss completely of what had been built). Probably not something that the AI could figure out at least not without a lot of code forcing the AI to do certain things.

Ormand -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (11/3/2019 9:12:17 PM)

Another great topic for discussion.

First of, let's admit that some aspects of the production are not realistic. Even ground forces. On a large map, I produce enough SFTypes to field three divisions/turn. Or one armored division/turn. While one conceivably turn that material out in the two weeks of a turn, it wouldn't be possible to muster the troops and train them. And, to some degree it can be thought of as just throwing them out there green with no training, which is more or less what happens.

And, it is just as unrealistic to build a viable tank factory in just two weeks. One way of looking at it is the cost in PP, EP, etc., are part of the process. So, I am less worried about the realism of a shipyard being built in two weeks, and this can be controlled somewhat by the EP and PP needed.

But, building ships is more complicated beast. I am aware of the Liberty ships, and this could be easily modeled by a tech that makes them cheaper. But, some ships take a long time and they just can't be sped up. For example, the USS New Jersey: the keel was laid on 16 September 1940. It was launched on 7 December 1940, and was commissioned on 23 May 1943. It took 2 years and 8 months to be ready for sea duty. Possibly, it could have been sped up due to war time conditions (since it was started more than one year before the war started), but still it is a significant investment in production and material. So, how to model this realistically? And, there is a separate problem of setting things up generically for human vs AI (we'll get to this later). I think that naval production is something that will involve shipyards and changes to the ATG engine. It would seem to me that a model would be that a given line can ONLY have so much production. But, perhaps we would need to have a shipyard with multiple lines all with that maximum production. To be more realistic, there would also be need to be "large" shipyards. A shipyard where only large capital ships can be built. As not all shipyards can build battleships and carriers. The size, or type, can be done already, but not the lines. And, we can't "stack" LocTypes in a hex.

Another problem to keep in mind is raw. The raw requirement for the build is not "charged" until the unit is produced. So, the player has to keep this in mind while building ships. You could get to 100% production but not receive the ship until you have enough raw in your inventory.

What would probably best to do within the context of the current engine is to have shipyards with different production types able to make specific types. The production would be set up to give a "realistic" delivery for a single ship on one line using 100% production. You can split this if you like. Not 100% optimal, and the card is an idea that could work, but it will be complicated to pull off.

Also, I would make it that ships cannot be built at cities. Otherwise, it is a way around this.

As for the AI. This is a bit of a mess, and I am not sure that there is a good solution, or one without a LOT of work. In general, I don't allow shipyards to be a buildable LocType because there is a general unfairness when playing against the AI. It is difficult to place them. It is also difficult to make an event that would be guaranteed to be useful; that is not a shipyard on a small lake in the boonies (there is a way that I can think of but it would be a bit complex and would require some significant time at start).

I can see that I should also make a modification so that for games with only human players, some LocTypes can be built.

Ormand -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (11/3/2019 9:30:56 PM)


ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz

You can do some of the things Larry suggests.

For instance it is possible to set up an item (items are what is produced, SFTs is their representation) to build several SFTs at a time. At least if I recall correctly.

You could make it so that a shipyard building was done by card, in the way Larry suggested. It would require a stringlist, probably with one row (to identify the shipyard) where the x and y coordinates are stored, as well as what is being produced and how long it would take for each to be produced. Con: You probably wouldn't be able to change this production, at least not in any meaningful way, without a lot of code, I think (or the loss completely of what had been built). Probably not something that the AI could figure out at least not without a lot of code forcing the AI to do certain things.

Yes, you can build more than at a time, this is the ProdMultiplier on the item screen. It doesn't quite do it the way you would really like. But, here is a mechanism that would sort of work. However, the only way to eliminate the multiple production lines is to make to AutoProduce an item.

One could make the shipyards (of the different types that I mentioned) upgradeable and make a different item that increases the ProdMultiplier. And set the shipyards to build only those items. The time would be the same, and you would get more. I believe that you would need the entire raw allocation to get any of them.

In the end, the cleanest way would be to have a "factory" with lines having a given production for each line. This would make shipyards more realistic, but wouldn't really be ideal for a "normal" factory producing land troops.

Ormand -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (11/3/2019 9:43:12 PM)

I take it back, I did make shipyards and airfield buildable as a default, unless you choose the "No Factories" variant. I just use house rules not to use them against the AI.

I think that it would be possible to get the AI to build shipyards just as it does for the other factories. I am guessing here. It is possible to set a slot and slot value for a hex that is necessary to build the LocType. So, possibly, if it is set up, the AI, just might place it only on a hex with the correct slot value. The problem is setting up the slot value. You can obviously edit the map and put the value in place as you want it. From the modder point of view, I would have to check and set the slot. That is where I am concerned that I won't get a good set up. I was thinking that it might be possible to calculate the area of a body of water, and put that in a slot. This is doable, but could be complicated and slow. I'll have to give this some thought, and is for the future.

LarryBurstyn -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (11/4/2019 8:05:48 PM)

Solution for AI over building equipment. Require AI to build ONE supply center for every factory it builds--supply center may be built only in any urban areas (not cities). Each supply center produces fewer supplies than a city but cost the same. If it runs out of urban areas it stops building factories.

Solution for overbuilding factories--limit the number of factories anyone produces to one per round (or any other limit desired)...regime variable could control that. Alternatively add PreFactory Location Types...each costs whatever or as much as a factory but factories can only be built on a PreFactory Location. You could have as many PreFactory locations as you want to lengthen the time it takes to build a factory. PreFactoy1 Location can only be built in favorable terrain. PreFactory2 can only be built on PreFactory1 Location and replaces it and so on. Tank/Aircraft/Guns Factories can only be built on PreFactoryX--with X being the number of rounds that it takes to build a factory. If you decided it takes a year to build a factory than you would need lots of PreFactory Location Types...but you have room in the editor to make as many as desired (not figuring in memory problems if any). This would pin down an Engineering unit for a long time and use up resources as well.

Ormand -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (11/5/2019 2:06:25 AM)

I'd like to ask that if you play a FourSeasons random game (my stock version) that you edit it and make it loadable, and then send me some saved games. Depending on the size4 of the map, maybe every 10 turns for small and 20 for large. I would like to peak in on what the AI is doing. Send it to ormand at comcast dot net.

To make it loadable, load the scenario in the editor select the "Setng" and and go all the way to the bottom in the panel to "Import and other Settings". Click on the button to switch Loadable=True. As seen in the posted image.

I would like to check on what it does. It would be useful to have a two-regime and multi-regime game.



LarryBurstyn -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (11/12/2019 1:18:05 PM)

Tried an experiment. First changed production to multi-ships in shipyards. Still costs the same per ship but Shipyard produces more ships per production. I changed Cargoships to 4 per production, subs and destroyers 3, all cruisers to 2 while keeping carriers and battleships at 1. Results ships come out faster but costs are the same...result is sometimes the production cannot be completed because you don't have the raw materials to complete production...and it is all or nothing...Means you spend time building up ore production. I thought about specialized shipyards that can produce only certain size ships...but that would require changing and adding item types for different size ships.

Next I tried location types PreShipyard1, PreShipyard2, etc...with the last being Shipyard. None of the PreShipyards can produce anything. I kept the EP nearly the same per PreShipyard so you cannot build them the same turn...but reduced the cost in PP, Supplies and Raw so that the total cost are the same for those three items. That way you cannot produce PreShipyard1 and PreShipyard2 in the same hex at the same time unless you have really large engineering units. Since the AI does not produce Shipyards this does not affect the AI...and I kept Guns, Tanks, and Aircraft unchanged as the AI cannot at this time handle the production of "pre" factories. If I knew how I would create Supply centers and make the AI build one for every other factory type they build...that way they will not run out of supplies because of overproduction. Since I make supply centers only buildable in urban hexes it effectively limits the total number of factories that can be built by the AI. IN fact that might be applied to human players also. One way would be to limit factory production by a "build" variable...the player gets 1 point for every supply center they build and every other factory requires the use of this "build" variable. I've seen this used to limit the number of factories that can be built per turn.

LarryBurstyn -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (11/17/2019 12:02:23 PM)

More experimenting.
Tried using Build Points to control what and how fast it is built. Had to drop idea because the AI does not know how to use negative resource costs (in effect to increase build points). Aw well...another idea in the wastebasket.

Saw and decided to see what AI Priority meant. Well it does control what is built on a priority manner. First experiment showed small numbers don't change priority very much...saw no difference in what was built. Than gave aircraft factories a priority of 50 while the others (including supply centers) a priority of 5. AI built lots of aircraft factories (in fact that was all it built for 6 turns) tried Supply Centers at 10 with the other 3 factory types at six turns it built 2 Supply Centers, 2 Tank Factories, and 1 Gun Factory. experiment ended in 6 turns because that was when the AI declared war on me or attacked without declaring war. Since all I was doing was hitting the end turn button my human side was totally unready for war...Having continued to build whatever the start up building was programmed. This entire thing was hard on my eyes because I had to search for the factories the AI built...and sometimes they seemed to be well hidden. The AI built factories only on roads in the tests and that includes Supply urban hexes without roads probably will not get supply centers.

Just read an interesting article on ship production during stated that Liberty and later Victory class cargo ships were often delayed many days due to shortages of materials (like engines, ball bearings, etc.,). Even higher priority warships were delayed due to shortages until 1943 when new steel and other resource factories were finished. This led to the average being 42 days instead of a shorter period. In fact something I found interesting was that oil was in such short supply that shipyards used ripe bananas as a substitute for grease to launch the ships. Once a shipyard used unripe bananas and the ship got stuck on the launch way...taking several days to wrangle free of the mess. The Navy told shipyards to use ONLY ripe bananas. Bananas were cheap and available because the war lessened the market for bananas and it was too expensive to ship them.

Ormand -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (11/17/2019 11:06:16 PM)

Sounds interesting. I had a feeling that a rail/road would be required for the AI to place a factory. My recollection in game is that it always seems to be on a road. That makes he placement of "special" types complicated, but possibly doable.

I thought that it was likely that "AI Priority" would have an impact on which one gets built. Like I said, I am not exactly sure how the factories get selected and placed since it uses the function SetCardXY(XX,-1). It looks like for each factory a first call is made with XX=-9999 and then with XX=Random#. A logical guess for how this works is that at the start of each AI turn, there is a loop over all the LocTypes to see if the AI can build it, and a call with XX=-9999 puts it eligible. Then the second call with XX gives it the weight. The one with the highest weight gets chosen. From your tests, I would say that "AI Priority" gets added to XX in the call.

The fact that a rail/road is needed shouldn't affect your supply factory too much since most of the urban hexes generated have a road. It would make things complicated for a shipyard. I have given some thought how to select hexes eligible for a shipyard, which I would define as a shore hex adjacent to a fairly large body of water. The trick is to identify the large bodies of water. I see a path to doing that, and marking potential hexes with a slot number. Note that a slot and slot value can also be specified as a requirement to build the LocType. So I think that is doable. As is, in principle, the road issue as well.

It will, however, take to work through the algorithm.

LarryBurstyn -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (11/18/2019 1:48:31 PM)

Well, I considered the shipyard problem and worked on a way to limit the number of shipyards to the human player. One way is to make it take longer with more resource cost to build shipyards. One way is Location Types. I've used Location Type PreShipyard1, PreShipyard2, PreShipyard3, and then the actual Shipyard. Each PreShipyard costs 88 EP which usually also use up the AP for the Engineer Units. Wish I knew the relationship between EP and AP use to build stuff. Each PreShipyard also cost 10 RAW while the Shipyard itself cost 40. Thinking of making the total for a Shipyard as expensive as a Battleship...since it builds one...and Raw should be a limiting factor. It took almost a year to build Shipyards before and after USA entered the war (USA built 2 shipyards for the British before we entered the war--they built only a British version of the Liberty ships). Before and after the USA entered the war the biggest thing that delayed ALL production was Raw and finished resources (finished resources being engines, steel, oil, manufacturing facilities, etc.,). I liked the build up of cities so that they could produce more...the British could not build shipyards in their own country because they needed the resources to build fighting stuff--so part of the lend-lease and earlier programs was used to build shipyards in the USA for the British..

The resource problem was so big that a year before the USA entered the war the War Department ordered the construction of resource factories (steel, raw material mines, oil refineries, engines, ball-bearings, etc.,)

When the USA entered the war a government agency was used to control where resources much so that FDR himself had to order them to allocate resources to cargoships building shipyards. Since the Navy concentrated so much on warships that the cargoship shipyards were ordered to build landing ships and their auxiliary craft as well as cargoships.

This is only if Ormand can not or does not find a way for the AI to build Shipyards. I use the limited roads button when creating a scenario so some urban areas do NOT have roads to them.

EDIT>>Before the war a big argument was whether the Liberty Ships should has gas or steam turbines--gas turbine ships were faster therefore faster getting across the ocean...but the deciding factor was gas turbines were all being used on warships. And there were not enough gas turbine factories to increase the construction of gas turbine engines...this was resolved by building gas turbine factories and later the Victory Class cargo ships had gas turbines although Liberty ships were still built due to gas turbine shortages.

Ormand -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (11/19/2019 2:31:34 PM)

Regarding the shipyard there is good news and bad news. The good news is that it is doable; that is get the event to build shipyards for the AI. The bad news is that to do it right will take some work. But, it can be done "out of the box".

Let me explain. So, I did a test with the shipyard by setting "AI Can Free Build"=true. And then used the same pre and post event, and set AI Priority = 100 (so it would just build them). The test did work. The AI will build shipyards and it puts them on shore hexes with a road or rail/road. It starts by trying finding a spot near the capital, and then keeps ongoing. In the test, it next went to another city near the capital. And, for the third, it plopped it down on a coast, fairly far from a city. So, by "out of the box" I mean that you can get shipyards built by the AI in this fashion. It will work and I suspect build ships just fine. It would be wise to play with AI Priority and the pre event a bit to get the weight correct.

I was very pleased that the engine put the shipyard on a coast since there isn't anything in the stats that would seem to force this. It probably did so based on what it could produce. As Larry found earlier, there has to be a road there.

The bad news. Well, as I feared, in the "out of the box" mode, the AI will build a shipyard on a land-locked lake ( even of one hex). It doesn't know what is a good spot for the shipyard. There is a fix for this. But, it can be a bit complicated to do. You can also specify a slot and slot value for where a LocType can go. For example, I used slot 8 and a value of 1. The AI (and you) will then only be allowed to build the shipyard where slot 8 has a value of 1. This worked just fine. The trick is setting the hexes in the slot to the right value. You can do this via the editor after creating the game, and just go in and set all coastal hexes to the value you want for the slot. There are 9 slots, but several are used, so I would use a high slot. It is possible to write an algorithm to set the slots. I have been thinking about this, and it is a bit complicated. The basic idea being to check for large areas of contiguous sea hexes, and then set the slot value for the coastal hexes. I have an idea, but it will take some work to build and will probably create a drag on the start of the game.

LarryBurstyn -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (11/24/2019 7:13:40 PM)

I am playing a game and I have a problem...I am inside enemy territory and need to change the railroad type of the enemy so my replacements and supplies can get to my troops on the front lines...HOWEVER I cannot tell which is which so I don't know which needs to be changed...Can you make a different graphic for narrow and wide gauge railroads--please.[sm=bow.gif][sm=bow.gif]

m12.gif should have been the "smileys" with the questions over the head.

Ormand -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (11/24/2019 10:09:45 PM)

I admit that you have a point. You have to look carefully on the large setting. It is, for the most part, a problem that occurs with the start of a random game with the random rails. For reasons that I don't understand, the event that replaces the rail/road with the narrow gauge "connects" them with the graphics. If you make the rail/road network with an editor, they are not connected, as there is a gap in the line. Although the road appears to be disconnected, it actually is. Not the rail. In addition, after you have replaced your first rail, the gap is there.

Also, note, and I hadn't first realized this, that you can probably replace two rail hexes (if you have enough EP). I say probably because I haven't tested on multiple hexes along the line. For the first one, the process is to place the engineer on the rail hex of the wrong type. Use the card to remove the "bad" rail. Build the rail back to the "good" rail line. Then move the engineer back into the original hex. You then build out of that hex back in the direction of the "bad" rail line. I didn't get to test this again and again on the line though.

The important note is that you have to build the rail from the hex with the rail removed back towards your rail line. The other way will not work.

I'll look at this. I can also see if a bit better in my system with the grid on. This is because I also swicthed the grid making the grid lines with a transparency of 25%. This way the black lines have less contrast.

ernieschwitz -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (11/24/2019 10:13:06 PM)

Couldn't you adjust the color of the rail lines so they looked differently?

Ormand -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (11/24/2019 11:00:28 PM)

You can try these replacements. See how they look. The transition should be more obvious. There will be two files due to the 500 k limit. Two other things. These are zip files, and due to the size limit, the small wide-rail is not attached. You can just delete the old one, and ATG will create it. It won't matter since it won't look much different given the reduction.

This is the wide rail.

Ormand -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (11/24/2019 11:01:10 PM)

This is the narrow rail.

Ormand -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (11/25/2019 5:14:33 AM)


ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz

Couldn't you adjust the color of the rail lines so they looked differently?

I already had to a degree. The wide rails were a lighter grey. So, I went further. I darkened the ties and lightened the rails for wide, and the opposite for narrow. There is a bit more contrast now. It is a bit noticeable on the medium, but more so on the large (forget small).

And, yes, you generally can do two builds. Once back towards your rails, then move back into the hex, and build towards the other rails.

Ormand -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (12/18/2019 6:20:00 AM)

Just uploaded an update to FourSeasons-at2-v3.14.atzip.

This has some fairly significant changes, although they should be fairly seamless for playing.


1. Integrated the change to rails to make the transition between narrow and wide gauge easier.

2. Fixed a bug in the transition between beach winter storm and beach winter (it was going to beach summer).

3. Fixed bugs in the adaptions I made for the AI and made some tweaks for AI force settings. The adaptions were correct, but I did not reset all the rulevars at the start of human player's turns. Thus, the "benefit" to the AI carried over to human players as well. These should make the AI a bit more competitive. This might be the most significant change.

4. Changed "Jeep" from a transportation SFType to a combat SFType. It is now "Jeep Scout" and has combat values, and is a vehicle. The reason had to do with the jeep having a carry value, which made it so that it could tow all AT guns and infantry guns. While this is true for the first generation, it is not true for the later, bigger guns. Jeeps can no longer carry units. They are considered a combat unit by themselves. They have 3 stack points (a lot of jeeps are needed for a company).

5. Tweaked stack points. Now general combat units have 2 stack points, while transport units have 1. The stack limit for a single hex was increased from 60 to 100. Overall, the structure of the units doesn't really change if you stick to the rule of threes.

6. Tweaked self-propelled AA to make them 20% stronger.

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