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Texican -> Need Lite version of this game (8/25/2016 4:05:32 PM)

Would like to see simplified land/amphib action, elimination of headquarters and the minutiae of non-combat units, some way to get rid of a turn spending 10 minutes on stuff like the Dutch launching a 3-plane raid that hits nothing, etc... And make "quiet China" really quiet, by roping off that section of the map, altogether. Have stuff like "send points to China or suffer VP point penalty", etc..., stuff like that.

The carrier and naval/air ops are good, keep that. But an in-between sort of game, something that could run faster yet keep the naval/air realism would be good. Need a game that's a step down from WITP.




btd64 -> RE: Need Lite version of this game (8/25/2016 4:40:25 PM)

You don't want this game then. Maybe Carrier Battles or something. AE isn't for everyone. And that's OK. Try small scenarios from babes or the vanilla small ones....GP




nashvillen -> RE: Need Lite version of this game (8/25/2016 4:52:35 PM)

Um, No.




geofflambert -> RE: Need Lite version of this game (8/25/2016 5:33:32 PM)

You should try Rock 'em Sock 'em Robots. It's very historically accurate. They have a PBEM version now. Knock his block off! Referencing another thread, I've created a mod where the robots wear lingerie.




SheperdN7 -> RE: Need Lite version of this game (8/25/2016 5:40:19 PM)

The game you have described Texican is called "Pacific Theatre of Operations" (PTO for short) there is 4 of them but IMHO only the first 2 are worth playing. If you can get past the graphical limits the game's have, then they are perfect for you.




btd64 -> RE: Need Lite version of this game (8/25/2016 6:41:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

You should try Rock 'em Sock 'em Robots. It's very historically accurate. They have a PBEM version now. Knock his block off! Referencing another thread, I've created a mod where the robots wear lingerie.


What was the name of that show were it was in the old west or something and the people were robots. Came out in the 70's I think....GP

WestWorld or something




geofflambert -> RE: Need Lite version of this game (8/25/2016 6:47:08 PM)

West World is correct. Yul Brynner was a robot. It was part of a series, I think one was "Future World".




geofflambert -> RE: Need Lite version of this game (8/25/2016 6:57:50 PM)

It was by Michael Chrichton, who also did "Terminal Man" and "The Andromeda Strain" (which was an excellent book and movie). He also did "Jurassic Park".




Macclan5 -> RE: Need Lite version of this game (8/25/2016 7:20:11 PM)

As well ~ not for me

Each to his own.

--

The other game you describe is "Pacific General" ~ the old SSI game ~ at least in my opinion.

Battles >> Campaign >> A little bit of troop upgrade and unit info >> Prestige = Victory points >> Core units >> etc

The General Series 1st edition.

I costs something like "the price of a pint of beer" at Good Old Games.com.

I still have it on my hard drive but have not opened it for years.

In fact I am not sure it works on windows 10 albeit it did work just fine on windows 7 ~

I bought back up retrofitted versions of all may favorite old games at GOG and all the ones I did test still work fine.

I imagine the graphics are somewhat impaired but then AE is not exactly video card intensive either.




Schlussel -> RE: Need Lite version of this game (8/25/2016 7:35:39 PM)

I particularly like the depth of WITP:AE, and share MacClan5's sentiments. However, if you want something that demands a smaller time investment, there's a game called "War Plan Pacific" that may fit the bill. The focus is all on carrier and surface combat, land related actions are ignored... and there's no China action to speak of. You definitely lose some realism but that's the trade-off.




Revthought -> RE: Need Lite version of this game (8/25/2016 7:52:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Texican

Would like to see simplified land/amphib action, elimination of headquarters and the minutiae of non-combat units, some way to get rid of a turn spending 10 minutes on stuff like the Dutch launching a 3-plane raid that hits nothing, etc... And make "quiet China" really quiet, by roping off that section of the map, altogether. Have stuff like "send points to China or suffer VP point penalty", etc..., stuff like that.

The carrier and naval/air ops are good, keep that. But an in-between sort of game, something that could run faster yet keep the naval/air realism would be good. Need a game that's a step down from WITP.


Advice:

1. Turn off combat animations (you can also turn off combat reports and just check them in the ops log next turn), this will cut down on time per turn.
2. Play quiet China
3. Play War in the Pacific (not Admiral's edition)




IdahoNYer -> RE: Need Lite version of this game (8/25/2016 9:10:12 PM)

Actually, what Texican is kinda describing can be found in the original Pacific War, which although a bit dated in graphics, is still a heck of a game. Still available from Matrix, although whether current machines can play it is another story.




AW1Steve -> RE: Need Lite version of this game (8/25/2016 10:52:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Texican

Would like to see simplified land/amphib action, elimination of headquarters and the minutiae of non-combat units, some way to get rid of a turn spending 10 minutes on stuff like the Dutch launching a 3-plane raid that hits nothing, etc... And make "quiet China" really quiet, by roping off that section of the map, altogether. Have stuff like "send points to China or suffer VP point penalty", etc..., stuff like that.

The carrier and naval/air ops are good, keep that. But an in-between sort of game, something that could run faster yet keep the naval/air realism would be good. Need a game that's a step down from WITP.



Whimp! [:D][:D][:D] Seriously , you check into the early versions.




dcpollay -> RE: Need Lite version of this game (8/25/2016 11:28:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: IdahoNYer

Actually, what Texican is kinda describing can be found in the original Pacific War, which although a bit dated in graphics, is still a heck of a game. Still available from Matrix, although whether current machines can play it is another story.

IF Texican has minimal computer skills, PacWar will run under DOSBox. He just needs to be able to "mount" the drive properly, for which there are instructions.




mrchuck -> RE: Need Lite version of this game (8/26/2016 12:48:02 AM)

Personally I think Texican's idea has great merit. WITPAE is a total grognard experience, that's for sure, and it reminds me in many respects of S&T's old War in the Pacific which had many of the same problems i.e. it's just too damn fiddly.

I have always believed that the minutiae of staff problems like e.g. making sure support units get loaded with combat units is not worth modelling at the grand strategic level. What I'd like is something between AE and pacwar, and towards the AE end of the spectrum. Anyone have any serious suggestions?

What would be even better is a staff module in AE that takes care of all this stuff for the player, without having to hand over a whole theatre to the AI (you might as well let the computer play with itself and walk away), but that won't happen I guess.

The old games mentioned so far are primitive to say the least.




NigelKentarus -> RE: Need Lite version of this game (8/26/2016 12:48:34 AM)

The original WITP plays fine on Windows 7. I actually installed it a few months ago so I could copy it's icon to use on my AE tools shortcut folder. Before I uninstalled it, I ran a few turns to refresh my memory of the differences. It was a good game, but I wouldn't want to go back to it.




geofflambert -> RE: Need Lite version of this game (8/26/2016 3:38:28 AM)

I value the detail in the game and think in particular, though it might seem outrageous, the ability to watch over, direct the training of, and assign individual pilots to particular squadrons relevant. The cliché is that the IJN was not prepared to replace crew losses and never caught up may be cliché but it is also true. The ability to do something about that (as the Japanese player) is, to me, central to the value of this game. I am not interested in what if mods in general, but I respect the game for giving you the option, beginning on 12/8/41 to not make the same mistakes but/and be faced with the same conditions as historical. I think the game also, legitimately, teaches us about the dominance of air power that expressed itself in this war despite so many strategists ignoring it.




rustysi -> RE: Need Lite version of this game (8/26/2016 3:59:01 AM)

+1




Reg -> RE: Need Lite version of this game (8/26/2016 6:25:03 AM)


Uncommon Valor is on a smaller scale and plays well if Texican likes this genre. However it lacks a lot of the later game features of WITP-AE.

http://www.matrixgames.com/products/216/details/Uncommon.Valor






wdolson -> RE: Need Lite version of this game (8/26/2016 6:37:24 AM)


There are a number of smaller scenarios for AE. Some are included with the game as well as some player created scenarios.

Bill




Rising-Sun -> RE: Need Lite version of this game (8/26/2016 9:15:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Texican

Would like to see simplified land/amphib action, elimination of headquarters and the minutiae of non-combat units, some way to get rid of a turn spending 10 minutes on stuff like the Dutch launching a 3-plane raid that hits nothing, etc... And make "quiet China" really quiet, by roping off that section of the map, altogether. Have stuff like "send points to China or suffer VP point penalty", etc..., stuff like that.

The carrier and naval/air ops are good, keep that. But an in-between sort of game, something that could run faster yet keep the naval/air realism would be good. Need a game that's a step down from WITP.


You could try the previous version, it is not as bad or complex as this one...
http://www.matrixgames.com/products/294/details/War.In.The.Pacific




Yaab -> RE: Need Lite version of this game (8/26/2016 9:25:38 AM)

And I need a Lite version of Real Life so I can get to year 1942 in WITP:AE.




chemkid -> RE: Need Lite version of this game (8/26/2016 10:22:53 AM)

.




Macclan5 -> RE: Need Lite version of this game (8/26/2016 3:02:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mrchuck

I have always believed that the minutiae of staff problems like e.g. making sure support units get loaded with combat units is not worth modelling at the grand strategic level.



quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert


The ability to do something about that (as the Japanese player) is, to me, central to the value of this game




My Gorn friend expresses succinctly what I suspect is the majority view. The lure of this game is the ability to make decisions that have consequences.

This is very rare in many games. The best games of any genre manage it correctly.

---

I disagree that you can model the "Strategic" without the "Tactical" in any meaningful way.

I think some people confuse strategy with tactics.

Simply put the Strategy of the Allies in WW2 and the Pacific Theater was to bring superior manpower, weapon force both quantitatively and qualitatively, supported by superior supplies to halt Japanese expansion and then reverse it.

Period.

They did so.

The industrial / population / resource base of the Allies made it inevitable so long as the Allies stayed the course on unconditional surrender.

The Japanese Strategy was to enter a short term war by rapid expansion and the creation of a non-euro / non colonial / non-'western" sphere of influence dominated by Japans government. They intended from the very start to endure a short war and inflict such massive damage that the so called western powers would loose their will to fight through a long war.

They expected to end the war by compromise and treaty with Japan maintaining the bulk of its sphere of influence. Japan never planned for a long war of attrition.

Period.

Everything else is tactics

Whether picking a raid site, a location to face off mano a mano, how you leverage your resources, how you leverage your forces, right down to how you ensure you have sufficient mechanics repairing planes is all tactics.

You might be able to further abstract "support" embedded in every troop concentration but in my opinion that limits your decsisions, flexibility, and consequences because you end up placing "airstips" where there are "troops" ~ at the point of attack for example.

Not historical, not practical, not good tactics.

But everyone is entitled to their own opinion on the merits thereof.

Cheers





Skyros -> RE: Need Lite version of this game (8/26/2016 3:55:55 PM)

I believe he should play Pacific War which is available for free from Matrix. ITs a much simplified version and was the first generation of this game before WITP and WITPAE.

It can be found here.

http://www.matrixgames.com/products/235/details/Pacific.War:.Matrix.Edition




Rising-Sun -> RE: Need Lite version of this game (8/26/2016 7:41:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Skyros

I believe he should play Pacific War which is available for free from Matrix. ITs a much simplified version and was the first generation of this game before WITP and WITPAE.

It can be found here.

http://www.matrixgames.com/products/235/details/Pacific.War:.Matrix.Edition



That's a sweet old Pacific War, remember beating that game as Japan few times back then. Its not as complex as these versions, but not sure if you need DOSBox to run it tho.

There are a lot of Pacific War games out there, Hearts of Iron Series, Making History, etc.




rustysi -> RE: Need Lite version of this game (8/27/2016 2:44:29 AM)

quote:

There are a lot of Pacific War games out there, Hearts of Iron Series, Making History, etc.


There are no other Pacific War games out there, and that's final!!!!![:'(] AE is it.[:D]




oaltinyay -> RE: Need Lite version of this game (8/27/2016 11:54:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Texican

Would like to see simplified land/amphib action, elimination of headquarters and the minutiae of non-combat units, some way to get rid of a turn spending 10 minutes on stuff like the Dutch launching a 3-plane raid that hits nothing, etc... And make "quiet China" really quiet, by roping off that section of the map, altogether. Have stuff like "send points to China or suffer VP point penalty", etc..., stuff like that.

The carrier and naval/air ops are good, keep that. But an in-between sort of game, something that could run faster yet keep the naval/air realism would be good. Need a game that's a step down from WITP.



Actually I would ask for a more detailed version that lets us to fine tune industries in more detail and certainly more realism in land battles.

I dream about a module like combat mission where to resolve a battle a seperate module is launched that lets player participate in the battles down to the lowest tactical level - as I said like Combat Mission or similar.




geofflambert -> RE: Need Lite version of this game (8/27/2016 1:35:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: oaltinyay


quote:

ORIGINAL: Texican

Would like to see simplified land/amphib action, elimination of headquarters and the minutiae of non-combat units, some way to get rid of a turn spending 10 minutes on stuff like the Dutch launching a 3-plane raid that hits nothing, etc... And make "quiet China" really quiet, by roping off that section of the map, altogether. Have stuff like "send points to China or suffer VP point penalty", etc..., stuff like that.

The carrier and naval/air ops are good, keep that. But an in-between sort of game, something that could run faster yet keep the naval/air realism would be good. Need a game that's a step down from WITP.



Actually I would ask for a more detailed version that lets us to fine tune industries in more detail and certainly more realism in land battles.

I dream about a module like combat mission where to resolve a battle a seperate module is launched that lets player participate in the battles down to the lowest tactical level - as I said like Combat Mission or similar.


Oh yeah? I dream about Halle Berry




Yaab -> RE: Need Lite version of this game (8/27/2016 2:00:50 PM)

Wasn't she in "Gorn with the Wind"?




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