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Iorwerth -> HQ questions (3/1/2016 4:13:56 PM)

Getting into the game and really enjoying it. The interface is great and I have enjoyed the learning curve so far. Looking forward to starting a campaign some time soon, but earning my stars at the moment with the Road to scenarios.

I have a few questions about HQ's. I am probably missing obvious things that would supply the answer, but I think I can't see the wood for the trees at the moment!

1. What is CUP which appears when you want to transfer a combat unit to a new HQ?? I presume it is the current Command Points that the HQ currently is using (before the transfer goes ahead), but want to make sure, as I cannot find a reference in the manual to 'cup', just to command points.

2. Given an HQ unit has to be within 5 hexes (and able to trace a path of friendly hexes) of an attack/defence to be able to commit its support units, and then only to combat units directly attached to them, what is the point of assigning support units to higher up HQs which dont have combat units directly attached to them? So far as i can see in the manual, support units dont cost command points, so an HQ could have as many as it wants. I know that an HQ can only contribute 6(18) to any one battle, but support units higher up the chain wont contribute any if they have no directly attached involved combat units in the fight anyway. In addition, given there is no range limitations to transfer support units, just a requirement that the HQs in question must be in supply, if you are not going to keep all support units in frontline HQs or in combat units directly, then why not just put any spare SUs into High Command HQ i.e. why put them in Army Group HQ or Army HQ? Is putting SUs in non-frontline HQs just an admin thing connected with the automatic transfer of SUs between HQs in the logistics phase (which could be cut out by locking Hqs if you wanted)? I am pretty sure I am missing something important here!

3. Another question about HQs higher up the HQ chain. Higher up the chain HQs dont generally contributing SUs(unless have combat units directly attached) and so they dont need to stay within 5 hexes of the frontline. In addition, combat units trace their supply to their direct HQ, or to a railhead, and not to HQs higher up their HQ chain. Given all that, how far back should these higher level HQs be? I know they have a command range in hexes, which determines their ability to supply excess internal support squad ground elements, which i think is to do with support levels and efficiency, not combat Sus. I presume they should be within this command range, but are there any other factors I should be taking into account?

4. Now for a question about Air HQs - Air Bases have integral AA but you dont seem able to add AA support units, while Air Headquarters can add them. Do Air Headquarters AA SUs help Air Bases defend if they are within 5 hexes of them (i.e. assign these SUs in support of the Air Base defending itself), or is this AA support just to protect the Air headquarters itself? A bit confused here. I am bit unclear really what purpose Air Headquarters serve for Air Bases, beyond Air Bases needing one. Do Air Bases trace their supply to Air Headquarters? I presume an Air Headquarters supplies excess internal support squad ground elements, but cannot find what their command range would be if the do. Again, just a tad confused here.




loki100 -> RE: HQ questions (3/1/2016 10:22:44 PM)

1 - yes, the value shown is the load on the target HQ(s)

2 - depends on the SU. If its a combat formation then best at the lowest level (corps for Germans, army for Soviets), but the computer controlled construction engineers are better at Front/Army Group or Stavka/OKH level. That way they will operate across the map - if they are at a lower level they will only repair rail lines close to the their HQ

3 - There a number of factors. While the impact of the various leadership scores mostly declines both with on-map distance and command level this is not always the case. Morale for eg does not have a distance modifier - which is one reason to allocate a high morale commander to your senior post. Beyond that its very circumstantial. Early game the Soviet front commanders are mostly pretty dire so I keep them well back (in case of a German breakthrough), after that the closer they are the more impact they have. Same with Stavka - don't leave this well to the rear but bring it up relatively close to your most important sector - regard this as reflecting the area of most interest where additional command capacity is being applied

4 - there are two ways a unit can draw supply. Via its HQ (this is best) or from a supply source directly. The latter works best if the unit is on a rail line. To minimise truck costs you should keep your airbases on working rail lines (if you can), so its not so critical to have the airbases and the HQ in range. A wider problem with AA is its pretty useless (one of the recent patches lowered the impact), so I wouldn't put AA into the Air commands, best in the combat formations (unrealistic but pragmatic)




Iorwerth -> RE: HQ questions (3/2/2016 8:52:58 AM)

Thanks for those answers, they are a great help. I hadn't thought of keeping Airbases actually on rail lines to minimize trucks. Would the same apply to all HQs, not just airbases? I am presuming it would. I realize the frontline HQ's are probably going to be in advance of the railheads while attacking, so it wouldn't help them, but when defending they could sit on rail lines. Would it also help save trucks for combat units which are not on the frontline to also be sitting on rail lines if possible?

A further question about higher up the chain HQs, construction SUs and rail repair - If Front/Army Group or Stavka/OKH level HQ construction SUs operate across the map, do they start off from where the HQ's are and then spread out, repairing as they go, or is it more random than that? Also, are these HQs better off sitting on rail line themselves to help speed the process along? i.e. if they are not on a rail line, then do the consturction SUs have to travel across country to reach rail lines, or do they just appear on rail lines? Also, I presume I just leave construction SU's alone, and let the computer do what it wants with them?




loki100 -> RE: HQ questions (3/2/2016 9:42:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iorwerth

Thanks for those answers, they are a great help. I hadn't thought of keeping Airbases actually on rail lines to minimize trucks. Would the same apply to all HQs, not just airbases? I am presuming it would. I realize the frontline HQ's are probably going to be in advance of the railheads while attacking, so it wouldn't help them, but when defending they could sit on rail lines. Would it also help save trucks for combat units which are not on the frontline to also be sitting on rail lines if possible?

A further question about higher up the chain HQs, construction SUs and rail repair - If Front/Army Group or Stavka/OKH level HQ construction SUs operate across the map, do they start off from where the HQ's are and then spread out, repairing as they go, or is it more random than that? Also, are these HQs better off sitting on rail line themselves to help speed the process along? i.e. if they are not on a rail line, then do the consturction SUs have to travel across country to reach rail lines, or do they just appear on rail lines? Also, I presume I just leave construction SU's alone, and let the computer do what it wants with them?


aye, in general keep stuff on rail lines if you can. It all helps minimise the supply problems and how you use up your trucks - better they are hauling supply to your front line units.

I've never really worked out what the allocation system is to be honest. They start from an existing controlled and repaired rail hex and work from there (I don't think the location of the higher HQ is really critical for this purpose). You can manage this in a limited way. You can create a road block (any hex with 3 units stacked in it can't be repaired) so they will ignore that branch of the rail net. Also if you find them where you don't want them to work, send them back to the HQ .. if you are really really lucky they maybe redeployed to where you want them to be.

With the Soviets my solution is to build a lot, well in advance of the 1941 winter offensive. Something like 10 in Stavka and 5 in each front. I think the only solution is sheer mass. You can then use the player controlled rail repair units to do the priority lines - these will repair more than one hex in a given direction in a turn - that in turn might open up new branches for the auto repair units.

I then go on a second building spree later in 1942. When you go back onto the offensive in 1943 you may take a lot of ground fairly quickly and you'll be really limited for player controlled units till early 1944. There is a rail repair map in my current AAR that I think shows the advantage of simply throwing mass at this problem as I repaired the entire eastern Ukraine in about 10 turns despite advancing from Kharkov to the Dneipr.





Iorwerth -> RE: HQ questions (3/2/2016 10:04:59 AM)

Thanks again Loki, all this has helped me a lot. I noticed you said in your first post that HQ's lower than Front/Army Group or Stavka/OKH repair rail lines closer to their HQ. Could this be a way of fine tuning the auto rail repair done by the computer? Put a lower HQ with some construction SUs nearer to the rail lines you specifically want repaired and then those SUs are more likely to work on those rail lines, given they work nearer to that HQ.




loki100 -> RE: HQ questions (3/2/2016 5:04:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iorwerth

Thanks again Loki, all this has helped me a lot. I noticed you said in your first post that HQ's lower than Front/Army Group or Stavka/OKH repair rail lines closer to their HQ. Could this be a way of fine tuning the auto rail repair done by the computer? Put a lower HQ with some construction SUs nearer to the rail lines you specifically want repaired and then those SUs are more likely to work on those rail lines, given they work nearer to that HQ.


I think the problem with the repair units at the very low command level is the range they will cover is very limited. I'm an essentially lazy player [;)] and the idea of having to manage my HQ layout so as to control the rail repair routine fills me with horror to be honest.

with both sides you have/can build a lot of these units, I'm content to let the AI routines handle the process




Iorwerth -> RE: HQ questions (3/4/2016 8:03:42 PM)

I noticed on another thread that someone said army HQs only repair rail lines laterally (was one of the posts on the 'A collection of the Best Great War in the East Posts V3' thread). I wasn't really sure what this meant, so wonder if someone can enlighten me?

Another few questions, both probably stupid:

1. What support units count as artillery? My guess it is that it is the units that have as their type 'Artillery' in the commander's report, but did notice a big heading in the commander's report which says Artillery, that has types that are not artillery underneath it e.g. AT guns, mortars, flak units etc. Given that Artillery cannnot be assigned to divisions, I want to try and figure out what actually counts as artillery for this purpose. As I said, i presume the division restirction is for support units with the type artillery, but am a little confused.

2. With tank and motorized divisions, do support units need to be SP or motorized in order not to slow down the division? What about pioneers etc? I am presuming that if a support unit is attached to a high MP division then the unit gets the necessary trucks etc to not slow down the division, but thought I should check.

3. Lastly, I presume Flak units are both good against air and against armour?

As i said, these questions are probably a bit dumb, but thought I would ask them anyway.[8|]

EDIT: one last question - when a division attaches a support unit, where does the support unit come from? I get a list of available ones, but no indication of where they are being drawn from.

EDIT2: on the info pop-up you get for the enemy its Fortification Defense Modifier CV - is this what you multiple its CV by (i.e. fortification+terrain factor) or is it the CV after being multiplied by those factors, or something different? I think this may be the dumbest of my questions, as i am pretty sure it is the modifed (by fortification and terrain both) CV of the stack (though that doesn't seem to be the case on some enemy stacks I look at - which is what is confusing me really).




Iorwerth -> RE: HQ questions (3/8/2016 4:25:11 PM)

Seems my questions were so dumb that no one wanted to answer them [&:]

I think I have the answers to them anyway, so will post up what I think. All I then need is someone to tell me if I am right or wrong on them.

quote:

1. What support units count as artillery?

Artillery, Mortars, Rockets. These cannot be assigned to combat units.

quote:

2. With tank and motorized divisions, do support units need to be SP or motorized in order not to slow down the division?

All non-SP units added to a motorized or Panzer combat unit uses more trucks, so does not cause any loss of MPs to those units.

quote:

3. Lastly, I presume Flak units are both good against air and against armour?

Yes, they are good against both.

quote:

EDIT: one last question - when a division attaches a support unit, where does the support unit come from? I get a list of available ones, but no indication of where they are being drawn from.

Still not sure of answer to this, but working on the assumption they come from up the HQ chain, so, for example, a inf division in AGS can't call in a support unit in the AGN down HQ chain.

quote:


EDIT2: on the info pop-up you get for the enemy its Fortification Defense Modifier CV - is this what you multiple its CV by (i.e. fortification+terrain factor) or is it the CV after being multiplied by those factors, or something different?


I am now pretty sure the number after the = is the CV of the unit modified by both fortification and terrain.

So, if the above are correct, and chance of someone giving me a thumbs up or some other indication that I have it right?




charlie0311 -> RE: HQ questions (3/8/2016 9:56:07 PM)

Your interpretations are correct AFAIK (as far as I know) (appears quite often in forums,even from experts and designers!!)

Su's may be assigned in two ways, 1) for free when in the chain command, click on "assign" in unit window 2) selecting the su itself, either from the hq window or commanders report, click on the hq (to the right) and you get a list of the other hq it may be assigned to, can't assign to combat unit in this manner, and it costs 1 ap each, and if their are lots of hq you can send it to, then they are limited by how many "fit" into the window that lists those hq. whew!

Don't know if su can slow down stuff, don't think so.

You may have to look at the combat resolution as the combats are proceeding, the combat action messaging, is slow or fast depending on what speed you have selected. 1 is fast, low detail, about 5 should display what you want. Press the numeric key as the combat is proceeding to adjust this feature. Whew, again.




charlie0311 -> RE: HQ questions (3/8/2016 10:01:51 PM)

edit. when assigning su's from CR, commanders report, click on the location, (xx,yy), of su, then the list of hq you may send it to appears, usually use this for const/sappers/pioneers/rr repair stuff, that stuff "migrates" via a different set of rules than the "regular" su's.




loki100 -> RE: HQ questions (3/8/2016 10:27:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iorwerth

EDIT: one last question - when a division attaches a support unit, where does the support unit come from? I get a list of available ones, but no indication of where they are being drawn from.

Still not sure of answer to this, but working on the assumption they come from up the HQ chain, so, for example, a inf division in AGS can't call in a support unit in the AGN down HQ chain.



it comes from the top of the chain first - very frustrating if you have prepositioned SUs lower down the command chain. I've started leaving SUs that are training up in one of the non-combat MDs (the 2 in the Urals are good for this), precisely so I get some control over this part of the process




Iorwerth -> RE: HQ questions (3/9/2016 4:51:55 PM)

Thanks for all the replies. [:)]

The movement of SUs takes some getting used to. I have now got all my SUs in my High Command ready to distribute to my lower HQ's. However, I am now finding that the list of HQ's they can move too is limited to a smattering of corps, armies and army group HQs. I was hoping I would just get a list of all HQs currently on the map to assign them to, but alas nothing is ever simple. I am presuming the list is limited based on range, as the maximum range on the HQs available is 26 hexes, but not sure of this. Can anyone confirm, or know the what the criteria is? The manual needs more info on this aspect, if you ask me, unless you are supposed to be guessing what is going on!

I presume that I will now have to send the SUs down to the army or army group etc, and then next turn ship them down the chain to the corps I want them to end up in. So, some of my corps won't have their SUs in place for another turn! I figure there must be an easier way to do all this than the one I am currently using - perhaps trying to save those admin points by getting everything up into the High Command before orgainisng things is not worth the hassle?

A different question on HQ's - I notice that CP for AGC and AGS is in the minuses (-30, -51 respectively). I think there is little I can do about this unless I want to ship divisons from them up to AGN, but wanted to check there wasn't something obvious i am missing (which often seems to be the case! [:'(])




charlie0311 -> RE: HQ questions (3/9/2016 5:35:44 PM)

Hi,

You may "assign", move from OKH, to any German HQ with one click. With your mouse, go to the HQ you want to get the "goodies", click the assign function, all available su's then appear, all in the command chain.

If you click the su from the cr and get a window listing eligible hq, then, there are sometimes too many eligible hq to fit in the display window, that why it looks like there is a range limit. Same problem if you select the su from the hq window, the "send it to" box (window) not big enough to list all available "destinations".

The CP "nightmare" is another one that needs, if you want a thorough answer, a "long" answer. The short answer is yes overloads matter but the higher up the over load is the less "bad". OKH/Stavka can't be over loaded, but if you use them as combat hq, you get a big cv hit. Concentrate on keeping you corp and army in the "prime"

Editorial comment, the really super knowledgeable guys have answered these and many other of the same questions, oh, like 10 million times or so. Hobbyists, volunteers, are doing all the "work". Lots of guys can probably do a good new manual with entertaining tutorials. So what to do, if our "producers" start to take time to edit the new manual/tutorials then they ain't got time for programming etc.

ps I hope you don't make a huge list,send everything where you want, forget to "lock" up the su in their new hq, go to next turn and find the computer sent everything back to from where it came.




Iorwerth -> RE: HQ questions (3/9/2016 6:03:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: charlie0311
You may "assign", move from OKH, to any German HQ with one click. With your mouse, go to the HQ you want to get the "goodies", click the assign function, all available su's then appear, all in the command chain.


That is great - I had missed the assign button on HQ's! I was looking for the assign button on the right, where it is for Combat units, and didn't think to look on the left. Sorry about that [8|]. That makes things much easier.

quote:

ORIGINAL: charlie0311
The CP "nightmare" is another one that needs, if you want a thorough answer, a "long" answer. The short answer is yes overloads matter but the higher up the over load is the less "bad". OKH/Stavka can't be over loaded, but if you use them as combat hq, you get a big cv hit. Concentrate on keeping you corp and army in the "prime"


That is what i thought. There is not much you can do about it, unless you move untis to AGN, at least not in the early part of the Grand Campaign, so far as I can see.


quote:

ORIGINAL: charlie0311
Editorial comment, the really super knowledgeable guys have answered these and many other of the same questions, oh, like 10 million times or so. Hobbyists, volunteers, are doing all the "work". Lots of guys can probably do a good new manual with entertaining tutorials. So what to do, if our "producers" start to take time to edit the new manual/tutorials then they ain't got time for programming etc.


sorry if many of my questions have been asked before. i have spent a fair amount of time going through the forums, searching, reading the manuals, looing at AARs etc, but sometimes a direct questions can save an ocean of time. As to manuals, coming into the game now, as I am, it is very, very difficult to know what rules are as stated in the modified manual, and which have been superseeded by changes after that. While you can read through the long, long lists for each new version, as a new player still just trying to get a grip on the basic rules, it is a tall order to take it all in, and correlate it with the manual, to see what the current state of play is. Shame there isn't an online manual or wiki, where the change logs could be added to the relevant sections of the rules when the changes come it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: charlie0311ps
I hope you don't make a huge list,send everything where you want, forget to "lock" up the su in their new hq, go to next turn and find the computer sent everything back to from where it came.


This had crossed my mind! I am hoping I will get it right [:)]

By the way, i really appreciate the answers you are all kindly giving me.




charlie0311 -> RE: HQ questions (3/9/2016 7:08:00 PM)

see the wite "patch archive", in the top section of the forum threads. All the info on the new patches in one place.

game is in the best shape ever, manuals, etc, not so much. :)




Iorwerth -> RE: HQ questions (3/9/2016 7:13:56 PM)

Out of interest, my steam version is not on the new beta patch 1.08.08. Should I be using that patch, and is it possible to use it if your game is through steam?

EDIT: found a way to access the beta on steam, so downloading it. Hope that was the right thing.




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