Blockade: Ships not firing at freighters (Full Version)

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Tobsen -> Blockade: Ships not firing at freighters (2/8/2016 9:15:53 PM)

Hello everyone.

I am new to Distant Worlds Universe and, while still very overwhelmed from the complexity, I have a ton of fun!

So this might just be someting i do not completely understand yet:

I have trade sanctions against a neighbouring empire. I decided to also blockade 3 of their colonies: I sent a fleet, the orange circles around the planet is shown and the description of the planet says that there is a blockade of my empire. But still the freighters of this empire just happily come and go to these colonies and deliver goods. They are not fired on at all (at least not automatically).
What am I doing wrong? Or ist this a known bug?

Thank you advance!




Bingeling -> RE: Blockade: Ships not firing at freighters (2/9/2016 5:30:00 AM)

It is either a new bug, or what you see is not what you think you see.

If you have the circle for blockade, the blockade is working. What you may see is that the blockade does not prevent ships from refueling and using the shipyard. I am quite sure that I have seen the mess caused by a blockade with freighters turning away, but that is more than a few patches ago. Possibly as early as shadows beta...




Tobsen -> RE: Blockade: Ships not firing at freighters (2/9/2016 4:45:22 PM)

Thanks for the response [:)]

So it is possible for freighters to refuel at the blockaded planet, but they do not deliver or load any goods? Is there some way to see if the blockade actually works? I was under the impression that the blockading ships would open fire on approaching vessels?




Retreat1970 -> RE: Blockade: Ships not firing at freighters (2/9/2016 5:37:49 PM)

I've been thinking about this post, but I'm unsure. I don't use blockades, but there may be an answer. The galactopedia says:

When trade sanctions exist between two empires, blockades may be declared against enemy colonies and space ports. In this situation no trade by any empire is permitted with the blockaded colony or base.

The phrase, "no trade by any empire" confuses me. Does it mean all empires, or just empires wanting to trade with the blockaded empire? Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I did do a test, and the OP is correct. A blockade does not stop any blockaded empire ships from doing their business. So maybe the second part of the phrase is true? What do you think?




Bingeling -> RE: Blockade: Ships not firing at freighters (2/9/2016 6:43:15 PM)

I interpret it as "everyone". It means that (if that was even possible), on a blockaded colony of empire A. B may not sell its good to empire C. But I doubt that could happen in any case (third parties exchanging goods).

Back whenever, I ran an automated game and noticed there being a shortage which puzzled me. I then discovered a blockade was the issue. There was a spaceport "further out" that had this blockaded spaceport as its supplier, and kept ordering goods from there. And the freighters picked up the transport order, but turned away when they got to the blockaded pickup point. So the "where to get stuff routine" ignored the blockade, creating a shortage.

This is quite some time ago, and may no longer work that way. Which makes me suspect that for a somewhat large empire, blockading the capital would be even more crippling than one could think at first sight.




Retreat1970 -> RE: Blockade: Ships not firing at freighters (2/9/2016 7:46:42 PM)

That's what I'm thinking too, or maybe what should be happening. The phrase, "no trade by any empire", still bothers me though. If I have my colony blockaded, I don't trade with myself. I only trade with others. See what I mean?

I used the editor to blockade a homeworld. The blockade was ignored by the empires ships (freighters, miners, military, etc...). So I don't know what to think, but luckily, as I said, I never blockade anyways.




Bingeling -> RE: Blockade: Ships not firing at freighters (2/9/2016 7:56:01 PM)

Did you check that the ships were picking up/leaving goods?




Retreat1970 -> RE: Blockade: Ships not firing at freighters (2/9/2016 9:06:48 PM)

I don't know how to see cargo of an enemy through the editor, but I did see freighters come in with cargo and leave with different orders. I could also see what was docking (planet and starport). Independents were coming in too, so idk. Sorry I couldn't help any better.

I tried again with similar results. I'm going to say this isn't working as intended unless someone else says differently.




Retreat1970 -> RE: Blockade: Ships not firing at freighters (2/10/2016 10:59:03 PM)

Anyone else have any ideas about this? I know it's not a game-breaking situation, but any ideas are welcome.




Blabsawaw22 -> RE: Blockade: Ships not firing at freighters (2/10/2016 11:21:58 PM)

So you need the Blockades to fire at Freighters? that's the problem? Maybe I'm missing the point here..

I'll play a game and blockade all the empires.. and that means they all won't get anything right.. but according to your recent findings, they will get resources?




HerpInYourDerp -> RE: Blockade: Ships not firing at freighters (2/11/2016 3:57:03 AM)

Not directly related to blockades, but afaik the AI routine for cargo is if they get a new order that requires carrying items/cargo assigned, they'll dump whatever is they're carrying to make room for the new shipment. Usually this is irrelevant because there shouldn't be anything in there when they get a new order, but in the case of a delivery failure like in a blockade, chances are that once they reach the planet/station, they just dump it overboard into space when the AI is unable to dock/queue for docking and continues on with the next new order.




Bingeling -> RE: Blockade: Ships not firing at freighters (2/11/2016 5:18:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Blabsawaw22

So you need the Blockades to fire at Freighters? that's the problem? Maybe I'm missing the point here..

I'll play a game and blockade all the empires.. and that means they all won't get anything right.. but according to your recent findings, they will get resources?

Blockades does not fire at anything apart from protecting themselves. They (should) prevent freighters from docking (picking up/delivering cargo). And any case of actually "firing" should be in cases where ships of the offended attack them.

As far as I saw, he did not say that they did get resources. What was observed was that ships docked. There are a few other reasons to dock than to deliver/pick up resources (refuel, migration, shipyard actions).




Blabsawaw22 -> RE: Blockade: Ships not firing at freighters (2/11/2016 5:30:52 AM)

Regardless, it will be fun to see what 15 blockades do on 15 empires haha.




Bingeling -> RE: Blockade: Ships not firing at freighters (2/11/2016 6:32:45 AM)

Indeed. And if one of them is suitably offended to block one of your spaceport, you could see what happens if you build some stuff (to get a temp shortage) there. Do resource arrive? Do freighters with resources turn away?




Retreat1970 -> RE: Blockade: Ships not firing at freighters (2/11/2016 1:34:34 PM)

quote:

As far as I saw, he did not say that they did get resources. What was observed was that ships docked


They would dock with resources, and leave without them.

quote:

once they reach the planet/station, they just dump it overboard


Possibly. How could we ever verify that?




Bingeling -> RE: Blockade: Ships not firing at freighters (2/11/2016 1:49:11 PM)

By having your own colony being the blockaded one. Then you can watch freighter and colony resources, even if the latter is a rather noisy thing to watch.




Retreat1970 -> RE: Blockade: Ships not firing at freighters (2/11/2016 1:54:12 PM)

quote:

By having your own colony being the blockaded one


That's what I was thinking. It happens so rarely though. Oh well. Like I said it's not a big issue.




HerpInYourDerp -> RE: Blockade: Ships not firing at freighters (2/11/2016 3:57:28 PM)

I've never bothered with blockades or suffered from one (for any period to affect me, at the very least), but I have seen my loaded & delivery-bound freighters arrive at a colony of mine that has either been invaded (by hostiles, who have subsequently cleared up by my own death fleets) or super laser'ed into rocks, try to dock and then shuffle off with empty cargo holds.

I have also tested the cargo dumping behaviour out by making a new colony far away, wait for it to order a large amount of supplies and then removing it (via editor) once a bunch of freighters have picked up their loads and jumped into warp. When they arrive at the barren planet, they just idle or get reassigned as per usual and all of the reassigned ships leave with empty holds. When I recolonise it again, the planetary storage doesn't contain anything from the 'failed delivery'.




Retreat1970 -> RE: Blockade: Ships not firing at freighters (2/11/2016 10:58:26 PM)

While it may be true that freighters just dump their cargo, there's another issue that isn't happening.

Enforcement of a blockade is usually accomplished by a fleet of ships from the empire initiating the blockade. These ships will attack any ship that attempts to run the blockade.

That's from the Galactopedia. When I blockade any planet cargo ships come in, dock, and then leave. I never attack anything. It may be true that the freighters don't drop their cargo and just dump it, but there is the other problem of enforcement of the blockade which doesn't happen.

I'm leaning towards this is broken.




Blabsawaw22 -> RE: Blockade: Ships not firing at freighters (2/11/2016 11:17:15 PM)

quote:

That's what I was thinking. It happens so rarely though. Oh well. Like I said it's not a big issue.




It won't happen rarely when you blockade the entire galaxy... they will reciprocate.




HerpInYourDerp -> RE: Blockade: Ships not firing at freighters (2/12/2016 11:18:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Retreat1970

While it may be true that freighters just dump their cargo, there's another issue that isn't happening.

Enforcement of a blockade is usually accomplished by a fleet of ships from the empire initiating the blockade. These ships will attack any ship that attempts to run the blockade.

That's from the Galactopedia. When I blockade any planet cargo ships come in, dock, and then leave. I never attack anything. It may be true that the freighters don't drop their cargo and just dump it, but there is the other problem of enforcement of the blockade which doesn't happen.

I'm leaning towards this is broken.


I wouldn't trust the galactopedia tbh. A lot of the info is wrong/outdated. The bug is likely more to do with how hostility is handled imo. Anyone with a passive/reactive attack setting that doesn't get flagged up when the game does its IFF-check is left alone regardless.




Retreat1970 -> RE: Blockade: Ships not firing at freighters (2/12/2016 11:34:10 PM)

If you can't rely on the Galactopedia, rule book, and patch notes then we're just guessing.

I blockaded a homeworld, and a colony as Gizurean. If Gizureans aren't hostile enough then idk.




Blabsawaw22 -> RE: Blockade: Ships not firing at freighters (2/12/2016 11:56:30 PM)

quote:

Can't rely on the Rule book..


yeah.. haha.

and I get ridiculed for making fun of this game and it's flaw and graphics and choices the development team has made..

By far it shows that, indeed, they better change their ways for DW2...







Bingeling -> RE: Blockade: Ships not firing at freighters (2/13/2016 6:30:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Retreat1970

If you can't rely on the Galactopedia, rule book, and patch notes then we're just guessing.

I blockaded a homeworld, and a colony as Gizurean. If Gizureans aren't hostile enough then idk.

Well, there is always the matter of seeing what happens in the game. The best patch notes are incomplete or just plan wrong in some cases. Rules and manuals are less complete than patch notes. And even the best system that is not trivial got bugs.

In DW I am quite sure that blockading ships never shoot at ships. Shooting is about war between empires (or pirates), and blockading ships are usually not at war (well, mine are). If they do shoot at someone, the reason has no relevance to the blockade status, apart from the blockade keeping them there.

I have at exactly one time seen a blockade work just fine. But it is hard to actually see, because you both have to pay attention to the little things, and have the situation happen. In my case it worked so well that I consider it an AI failure.

Spaceport A was blockaded. Spaceport B was "further away from the main empire".
Spaceport B had a shortage (resource situation was probably not that great overall). Spaceport A had stuff (and noone was taking it away as it was blockaded).

Spaceport B kept generating transport missions "bring me XXX from spaceport A". Freighters arrived at A and turned away since they could not pick up. Repeat again and again. It would be rather simple for B to get stuff at other places, but in appears it ignored the blockade status.

I believe that you can play a whole lot of games without a situation like that happening to you. And even if you do you have to be able to have enough time to even notice what is going in at a spaceport at the fringes of an empire. The situation includes a somewhat effective AI blockade in a situation where the resource situation is probably a bit strained.

If you really want to see what happens, it could be possible in early game if the AI is kind enough to blockade a key mine. In that case you can even scrap other sources of the same resource. Thing is, I believe this may be somewhat common in legends, I doubt it is as common after the pirate upgrade in Shadows.




Retreat1970 -> RE: Blockade: Ships not firing at freighters (2/13/2016 2:39:38 PM)

quote:

Well, there is always the matter of seeing what happens in the game. The best patch notes are incomplete or just plan wrong in some cases. Rules and manuals are less complete than patch notes. And even the best system that is not trivial got bugs.


True. I still would argue all available information is telling me "x" should happen, but it isn't. But I digress, it's just blockades. Nobody cares.




Hattori Hanzo -> RE: Blockade: Ships not firing at freighters (2/13/2016 3:11:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Retreat1970

quote:

Well, there is always the matter of seeing what happens in the game. The best patch notes are incomplete or just plan wrong in some cases. Rules and manuals are less complete than patch notes. And even the best system that is not trivial got bugs.





that's why games forum are so useful and popular [;)]




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