Various Questions on WITP AE (Full Version)

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RichardAckermann -> Various Questions on WITP AE (12/4/2015 2:22:58 PM)

Hello !
I tried WITP AE about a year ago, but found it lacking due to a few issues. I returned now to ask if some if them have been solved meanwhile.

Is it now possible to create new airgroups ingame, in mid-scenario?
I found it troubling to not being able to adjust the strategy away from the historical existent airgroups.

Do several subs in one fleet attack now? I never managed to get a wolfpack engage any enemy. Only single subs seem to enter combat.

Do midget subs attack now? They just did not attack anything.

Is it possible to start construction of new ships in mid-scenario?





Lecivius -> RE: Various Questions on WITP AE (12/4/2015 2:37:10 PM)

No
No
Yes
No




witpqs -> RE: Various Questions on WITP AE (12/4/2015 3:13:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

No
No
Yes And they have for years. You tried this a year ago and they didn't work? Either you used them wrong or lacked patience. This is not a first person shooter where things just fire when you pull a trigger. A very large component in this game is randomness, part of that being what 'the lower level commanders' actually do. You really have to get used to it.
No





Puhis -> RE: Various Questions on WITP AE (12/4/2015 6:02:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RichardAckermann

Hello !
I tried WITP AE about a year ago, but found it lacking due to a few issues. I returned now to ask if some if them have been solved meanwhile.

Is it now possible to create new airgroups ingame, in mid-scenario?
I found it troubling to not being able to adjust the strategy away from the historical existent airgroups.

Do several subs in one fleet attack now? I never managed to get a wolfpack engage any enemy. Only single subs seem to enter combat.

Do midget subs attack now? They just did not attack anything.

Is it possible to start construction of new ships in mid-scenario?



These "issues" are not real issues, and are not going to get "solved".

Midgets have always worked, but they are (almost) useless anyway. Sometimes they attack if you're lucky, usually they just die.




HansBolter -> RE: Various Questions on WITP AE (12/4/2015 8:40:32 PM)

At first glance I thought witpqs' response was a bit terse.

However, I also feel the need to point out that the game is not an RTS where one side is trying to out build the other, nor is it HOI.

If being able to add to the OOB through the course of the game is important to you perhaps HOI would be more up your alley.




Anachro -> RE: Various Questions on WITP AE (12/4/2015 9:21:51 PM)

While I agree with Hans and am having a blast with the game as is, it could be interesting for future variants to at least add the option of manipulating production to divert planned ship builds towards a different type in a limited way. Maybe at a disproportionate cost in PP.

I would be the first to say we don't want to go the direction of Hearts of Iron though.




crsutton -> RE: Various Questions on WITP AE (12/4/2015 9:36:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Anachro

While I agree with Hans and am having a blast with the game as is, it could be interesting for future variants to at least add the option of manipulating production to divert planned ship builds towards a different type in a limited way. Maybe at a disproportionate cost in PP.

I would be the first to say we don't want to go the direction of Hearts of Iron though.


It is a massive game and even minor fixes and adjustments take a lot of effort. I don't think you will see any of the fixes you wish for. The game is pretty much mature now as it is older. Still the finest out there and some really fine mods that make it better. You can modify the OOB and arrival times in the editor but you won't be tweaking engine stuff. And except for the occasional fix, won't see anyone else doing it either. I doubt that anyone would find merit in your requests. Nice, but there would have to be a lot more demand and it would have to look more like a serious problem.




Anachro -> RE: Various Questions on WITP AE (12/4/2015 9:41:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton
It is a massive game and even minor fixes and adjustments take a lot of effort. I don't think you will see any of the fixes you wish for. The game is pretty much mature now as it is older. Still the finest out there and some really fine mods that make it better. You can modify the OOB and arrival times in the editor but you won't be tweaking engine stuff. And except for the occasional fix, won't see anyone else doing it either. I doubt that anyone would find merit in your requests. Nice, but there would have to be a lot more demand and it would have to look more like a serious problem.


I'm not really making a request. I'm just noticing that such a feature would be interesting to have. I'm perfectly satisfied with the game (and mods) as is.




Lowpe -> RE: Various Questions on WITP AE (12/4/2015 11:04:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis

Midgets have always worked, but they are (almost) useless anyway. Sometimes they attack if you're lucky, usually they just die.



Midgets are vastly entertaining. They are the comic relief. I have had them blown up from leaky batteries, to grounded, to caught in nets, malfunctioning torpedoes, and simply abandoned (I think the sub commander was rescued) and of course I have seen them sink a battleship with one torpedo.

Don't sell midgets short.[:D]




wdolson -> RE: Various Questions on WITP AE (12/5/2015 12:53:47 AM)

A few notes...

quote:

ORIGINAL: RichardAckermann

Hello !
I tried WITP AE about a year ago, but found it lacking due to a few issues. I returned now to ask if some if them have been solved meanwhile.

Is it now possible to create new airgroups ingame, in mid-scenario?
I found it troubling to not being able to adjust the strategy away from the historical existent airgroups.


This is a feature that will never be added because it's out of scope for this type of game. You have tremendous flexibility to reassign air units and with PDU on, you have even more flexibility with what type of aircraft are assigned to each unit. With mods, you can create a large number of extra air units if you want. The editor is very flexible.

Allowing players to create air units could easily spin out of control and allow unrealistic numbers of air units.

quote:


Do several subs in one fleet attack now? I never managed to get a wolfpack engage any enemy. Only single subs seem to enter combat.


The sub war in the game is not as well modeled as it could be. The US was the only navy in the Pacific and Indian Ocean to employ wolfpack tactics and they didn't do it until 1944. To model wolfpacks correctly would require some bit of redesign with a start date. The game is still getting tweaked, but this is pretty much out of scope for current development.

quote:


Do midget subs attack now? They just did not attack anything.


Midget subs are poor by design. They were not very effective in the real war and that was modeled in game. Since day 1 some lucky players have seen midgets hit a target from time to time. But it's rare because it was rare in the real world.

quote:


Is it possible to start construction of new ships in mid-scenario?



This again is out of scope for the game. The Allies don't have any control over ship construction at all. The Japanese can advance ships in the queue and delay or cancel other ships, but if a ship isn't designated in the scenario file, it can't be built. A player can always do a mod with new ship construction and there are a lot of what if mods with ships not in the official scenarios. But allowing the Japanese to built new ships not in the scenario file would be massively gamey.

Bill




BBfanboy -> RE: Various Questions on WITP AE (12/5/2015 5:25:23 AM)

A little expansion is required on the "wolf pack" question. True, multiple subs in a TF will not participate in a single attack - only one will. However, I use subs in pairs in the same TF and quite often after one of the subs makes an attack, or even just a sighting or is attacked, there is a subsequent combat where the other sub makes an attack. The detection level of the target is no doubt raised by the first sub and the second sub uses that to its advantage.




RichardAckermann -> RE: Various Questions on WITP AE (12/5/2015 8:52:18 AM)

Thanks for all the answers.

I used midgets to defend bases that were about to be invaded, but aside from them being attacked by escorts they never did anything - not even vs. unescorted freighters unloading troops in the same hex.

Does anyone know if the source code to this game will be released someday?




wdolson -> RE: Various Questions on WITP AE (12/5/2015 9:19:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RichardAckermann

Thanks for all the answers.

I used midgets to defend bases that were about to be invaded, but aside from them being attacked by escorts they never did anything - not even vs. unescorted freighters unloading troops in the same hex.

Does anyone know if the source code to this game will be released someday?



I would strongly bet against it. If the source code was released, fair PBEM games would be virtually impossible. If you have the source code (and know anything about programming), cheating in PBEM is extremely easy and you would have to be extremely trustful of your opponent.

Bill




RichardAckermann -> RE: Various Questions on WITP AE (12/5/2015 10:48:43 AM)

I did not think of that cheating point. You are perfectly right about that.
So only one wish remains on my list. Creating new airgroups "on the fly"
(maybe ground troops too, especially aviation support)

In my first game versus my neighbour who owned the game I (Japan) quickly seized all islands from Wake down to Fiji and tried to set up a defense with those large floatplanes. Yet I found my increased production virtually useless because I was unable to deploy the reserve aircraft.
That was frustrating. And setting up the editor before playing would inform my opponent of my intentions, plus I cannot ajust to how good/bad things are going for me.

I would like to be more flexible ingame. Predefined airgroups would only fit well if the flow of war results is also predefined. But it is a game after all, not a Movie with fixed outcome.




crsutton -> RE: Various Questions on WITP AE (12/5/2015 3:45:16 PM)

The amazing thing is what does work. In my last campaign my esteemed opponent, hit me with baka bombs, midget subs and had a dying bomber pilot go kamikaze on my ass and blow up a Iowa class BB with a magazine explosion. The thing is none of them are enough of a threat to change the war. Just fun to see. It is jaw dropping at times. I once had an ARD break a tow line and sustain a lot of damage in the open ocean.




pontiouspilot -> RE: Various Questions on WITP AE (12/5/2015 4:42:23 PM)

We all have little things on our ideal wish list.....on the whole however CR is right as always! Richard, if you find a live opponent for a game you will forget all about sweating the little things that could be.




paradigmblue -> RE: Various Questions on WITP AE (12/5/2015 6:58:42 PM)

I had midget subs put torps into two of my carriers in two different harbors on the same turn in one of my games. They may not have the best success rate, but they can do some damage if you get lucky.




witpqs -> RE: Various Questions on WITP AE (12/5/2015 7:27:46 PM)

At least 3 times I have had midget subs sink one of my BB at Pearl Harbor on Dec 7 turn. Hit one at least one other time.




RichardAckermann -> RE: Various Questions on WITP AE (12/6/2015 8:46:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton
The amazing thing is what does work. In my last campaign my esteemed opponent, hit me with baka bombs, midget subs and had a dying bomber pilot go kamikaze on my ass and blow up a Iowa class BB with a magazine explosion. The thing is none of them are enough of a threat to change the war. Just fun to see. It is jaw dropping at times. I once had an ARD break a tow line and sustain a lot of damage in the open ocean.


That are some cool features. Such things did not happen on the old version I played then. It did not even allow for manual resizing of airgroups. Only on/off for auto resize on a preset date. If I read the forum right, that feature was added meanwhile.

Well, this "threat to change the war" is what I intent to (try to) do. If I engage such a challenge, I want to win. To stand a chance, I need to leave the path Japan followed in strategy and deployment. And I need to try alot squeezing a high-yield effectiveness out of the outmatched japanese military.
I also wanted to make use of those 2 engine fighter bombers, but found few airgroups that accepted the type as upgrade.




rustysi -> RE: Various Questions on WITP AE (12/6/2015 8:57:27 PM)

quote:

I also wanted to make use of those 2 engine fighter bombers, but found few airgroups that accepted the type as upgrade.


Play with PDU on and you will be able to convert as many as you like. There is however a PP cost in many cases.




RichardAckermann -> RE: Various Questions on WITP AE (12/7/2015 8:37:40 AM)

This means I can convert any group plane type? Fighter to fighter/bomber or even fighter to dive bomber?




PaxMondo -> RE: Various Questions on WITP AE (12/7/2015 12:51:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RichardAckermann

This means I can convert any group plane type? Fighter to fighter/bomber or even fighter to dive bomber?


Pretty much, but there is a PP cost and in some cases quite high. As IJ, you rarely ever have enough PP's until real late in the war ... so this would be a luxury you aren't able to easily afford.




RichardAckermann -> RE: Various Questions on WITP AE (12/7/2015 2:32:12 PM)

Now that's great news. About as good as creating new airgroups. I really consider getting me a copy now. Is there a demo version? So I can try out those new features?
I lost access to the game when my neighbour moved away.




rustysi -> RE: Various Questions on WITP AE (12/7/2015 9:00:46 PM)

quote:

Is there a demo version?


AFAIK, no.

quote:

Pretty much, but there is a PP cost and in some cases quite high. As IJ, you rarely ever have enough PP's until real late in the war ... so this would be a luxury you aren't able to easily afford.


A thousand players, a thousand ways to play.[:D] IMHO you can't afford not to convert a few (wow that's a convoluted way of saying that). There are many Japanese single engine bombers units with few planes and I like to convert some to Nicks. They great for protecting those rear area oil/resource centers from long range 4E bomber raids. These units have 9/12 A/C and it'll cost you 10PP's/plane to convert them. They won't shoot down a lot of 4E's but enough (including OP losses) to discourage such tactics. Of course YMMV.




PaxMondo -> RE: Various Questions on WITP AE (12/8/2015 12:59:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

...These units have 9/12 A/C and it'll cost you 10PP's/plane to convert them.


Wasn't referring to the 10 PP changes, but rather the ones that cost 100 PP or more. It is hard to justify 100P to change a unit type rather than buy a unit out or get a unit back with those PP's.




rustysi -> RE: Various Questions on WITP AE (12/8/2015 2:12:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

...These units have 9/12 A/C and it'll cost you 10PP's/plane to convert them.


Wasn't referring to the 10 PP changes, but rather the ones that cost 100 PP or more. It is hard to justify 100P to change a unit type rather than buy a unit out or get a unit back with those PP's.



Don't misunderstand me those are 90/120 PP changes as the cost is per plane to make the change. Larger units are much more costly to change, as a 27 plane unit would cost 270 PP's. So the cost is not cheap, and everything is determined by one's play style. To each their own.[8D]




RichardAckermann -> RE: Various Questions on WITP AE (12/23/2015 6:38:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi
...
A thousand players, a thousand ways to play.[:D] IMHO you can't afford not to convert a few (wow that's a convoluted way of saying that). There are many Japanese single engine bombers units with few planes and I like to convert some to Nicks. They great for protecting those rear area oil/resource centers from long range 4E bomber raids. These units have 9/12 A/C and it'll cost you 10PP's/plane to convert them. They won't shoot down a lot of 4E's but enough (including OP losses) to discourage such tactics. Of course YMMV.


I tried to convert some plane types, but seem to have a problem locating the button for this.
PDU is on, but whenever I want to upgrade a unit, the list does only show planes of the same type as option.
How to convert, say a small army recon group to fighters or bombers?




Alfred -> RE: Various Questions on WITP AE (12/23/2015 7:58:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RichardAckermann

I tried to convert some plane types, but seem to have a problem locating the button for this.
PDU is on, but whenever I want to upgrade a unit, the list does only show planes of the same type as option.
How to convert, say a small army recon group to fighters or bombers?



Who said you can convert an army recon group to fighters of bombers?

You can only convert an existing airframe used to another airframe that is listed.

Alfred




RichardAckermann -> RE: Various Questions on WITP AE (12/23/2015 8:40:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: RichardAckermann

This means I can convert any group plane type? Fighter to fighter/bomber or even fighter to dive bomber?


Pretty much, but there is a PP cost and in some cases quite high. As IJ, you rarely ever have enough PP's until real late in the war ... so this would be a luxury you aren't able to easily afford.


I understood this answer as it was possible to switch plane type.
And rustysi seemed to convert single engine bombers to twin engine fighterbombers.




Alfred -> RE: Various Questions on WITP AE (12/23/2015 8:49:37 AM)

There was a very limited change in the 6th official patch (Changed #109) to expand interchangeability.  The change did not extend to what you want to do and in any case the change did not alter the basis mechanism which remains that you can only upgrade from what is shown as available.

Neither of the players you quoted, and as is my usual won't I did read the entire thread before posting so I knew exactly what they had posted, said you could do what you want to do.  What they specifically said is consistent with the change noted in the patch notes for the 6th official patch.

Alfred




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