Understanding CPs, leaders and checks (Full Version)

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SchnellerHeinz -> Understanding CPs, leaders and checks (8/30/2015 7:56:36 AM)

Can someone please explain exactly how maxing out an HQ's Command Points will affect its/the units performances?
As I understand it, I'd want to keep the actual CPs of say an army below or equal to its maximum available CPs. But what are the drawbacks if I "overstack" let's say 6th Army's 24 CPs by 6 making it 30. What if not by 6, but by 10? Do I benefit, if I keep the CPs below the maximum somehow?

The manual says leader checks will be negatively affected when CPs have been exceeded. What checks and by how much? What about Corps and Armies: Will they both be affected in the same way; aka: is it worse to max out a corps than an army?






chaos45 -> RE: Understanding CPs, leaders and checks (8/30/2015 3:35:32 PM)

Not 100% sure, but it seems the more overloaded the worse the penalty is.

Due to how much influence command rolls have on combat it is always best not to overload your HQs if at all possible. In general if you overload an HQ make it the Army/Front/Army group level and try to keep those units out of combat.

For Soviets your main HQs are armies- try not to overload them as they are your first leadership roll and most important

For Axis your main HQs are your corps- same principle.




SchnellerHeinz -> RE: Understanding CPs, leaders and checks (8/30/2015 6:34:09 PM)

Thanks, but this really doesn't answer any of my questions. I believe I was quite precise in what puzzles me.




VigaBrand -> RE: Understanding CPs, leaders and checks (8/30/2015 6:40:01 PM)

"Game Play Info: Leader check example: Let's say a German combat unit is attached to a Corps HQ unit with a leader initiative rating of 6 and the corps HQ unit has 11 command points (CP) worth of units attached to it and as a Corps HQ unit it has a command capacity of 8 CP. So the first test for the unit making an initiative rating check is to see if random (10+ (11-8))<6. If random (13)<6 the leader rating check for the combat unit passes. If the leader fails the check, then the leader in the next HQ unit up the chain of command conducts an initiative rating check. Let's say that it is an Army HQ unit that is 10 hexes from the combat unit, has 22 command points worth of units attached and as an Army HQ unit it has a command capacity of 24 CP, and a leader with an initiative of 7. The check would be to see if random (20 + 0 {due to command capacity not being exceeded} + (11/2) {because army HQ units have a range modifier value of 2}) < 7. Or random(25) <7. (Values are rounded down). As you go up the chain of command, the base value of 10 doubles each time you go up a HQ level. If the Army HQ unit leader rating check failed, then the Army Group HQ unit leader would try and the base would be 40, although since it is a higher level HQ, the range effect divisor will be 3 instead of 2. If the Army Group check fails, then OKH makes a check. As you go up the chain, the chance to make the check goes down a lot due to the doubling. Also, note that if the unit reported to an Army instead of a corps, then the first check would still be made using a base of 10 and no range modification. If it failed, then the Army Group would check with a base of 20 (10 doubled). Clearly with each HQ up the chain, the chance of the HQ passing the test goes down. The advantage of having a unit attached at the lowest level is that the unit has more HQ units in the chain, only one of which must pass the check.
11.4."
From the manual.
I underline the important things.
So if your corps as max 8 (not important if this means 2,4,6,7 or 8) you had random(10)<6 instead of random(13)<6.
Random(10) means a random number 0-9 (x-1) so you had a chance 6/9 = 66,66% to get the check. With random(13) you had 6/12=50% to get the check. Please check the supply details from you units. Write it down and than atach more units to that corps and look at the changed numbers.




Peltonx -> RE: Understanding CPs, leaders and checks (8/30/2015 6:51:25 PM)

Ok its like this

100 CV German vs 100 CV Russian

My commander rocks your commander sucks.

250 CV German vs 50 Russian after rolls. I gain morale take few loses you lose morale.

If you have good commanders

250 CV vs 135 CV = hold result. I lose morale take more loses and you gain morale and take less loses.

Its just that simple.

C&C is huge




swkuh -> RE: Understanding CPs, leaders and checks (8/30/2015 11:40:03 PM)

@schnellerheinz: you need to run some experiments vs. AI. Please report your findings.

How much precision do you need?

BTW, above posts give some well earned insights and are probably correct. What can you do with that?




gingerbread -> RE: Understanding CPs, leaders and checks (8/31/2015 5:28:14 PM)

Each CP above an HQ's cap increases the number of pips on the die that is rolled to determine if a roll is made or not on a 1 for 1 basis. No benefit in having less than cap.

Your example: A Soviet Army HQ ( Army is the lowest level of Soviet HQ, disregarding the Airborne and early turns) with not more than max CP attached has a base number of 10. A leader with a rating of 4 in the applicable category will have 40% to make the roll. If the HQ has 6 CP above its cap, the die has 16 pips and the chance drops to 25% (4/16).





Gabriel B. -> RE: Understanding CPs, leaders and checks (9/2/2015 7:17:13 AM)

Get rid of 4 initiative skill commanders fast.

keep just one per front but only if it has either 6 combat skill or 6 admin , preferably both .


most soviet army commanders are at 5 initiative skill, so their chances to make the check is 50/50 , back them up with 6 initiative front comanders (25% backup) and zhukov in stavka (15% backup).





SchnellerHeinz -> RE: Understanding CPs, leaders and checks (9/7/2015 7:19:19 AM)

Sorry for my very late reply. Thanks for all the input. Especially VigaBrands and gingerbreads remarks did help me understand some of the deeper mechanics - this was what I was looking for.




morvael -> RE: Understanding CPs, leaders and checks (9/13/2015 9:20:55 AM)

The "Alt CV" scenario is good to learn how the command chain affects CV. This shows the change in expected CV with only the leader changed:

[image]local://upfiles/22250/8A6488B8581C426FB5A22AF1C48606B5.jpg[/image]




morvael -> RE: Understanding CPs, leaders and checks (9/13/2015 9:28:49 AM)

And what happens if overload is removed:


[image]local://upfiles/22250/2B39831CC5DE48E2B08CBBA57308F1E1.jpg[/image]




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