RE: Game over? (Full Version)

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STEF78 -> RE: Game over? (9/20/2015 9:41:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: beekeeper

and game balance, why you speaking about?

I have no problem with game balance and didn't focuse on it, i't's my first 1942 campaign as soviet. I'm Learning.

quote:


1st poket, 1 lvl fort + 1 inf div and 3 PZ copr go clear field

Wrong, see below afer your moves

[img]http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/66529887bp.jpg[/img]

quote:


2nd poket, 1 lvl fort on 2nd line( 1st line destroy germ inf)+ 2 gv div and PZ army go clear field

wrong, see picture at the end of my turn before your attack west of Voronezh

[img]http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/947675bp48.jpg[/img]

quote:


3 poket, 1 lvl fort + 2 inf div and PZ army go clear

Partially true, I was surprised with this attack but it wasn't that easy, you had at least a double line of defence with reserve activation

quote:


ok and last oka, 1 tank brigade def coast

True but finding this spot in swamp without any recon... and after losing 60 units, I tried to reinforce clear hexes which I thought would be the logical target for Pzd.

quote:


this not balance version, not german skill, it error installation sov div

I hope you will find a better opponent next time... I will not be yours, I'm a fair opponent and have no problem with losing a game but your comments are very abrupt.

quote:


ps why you not build gv corps? 2 gv div+ 1 brigade it best sov unit summer 42

You can only build rifle corps in june and they are dead ducks on clear ground (too slow)




beekeeper -> RE: Game over? (9/20/2015 11:39:29 AM)

[image]http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/3460591332.png[/image]

1 DIV in fort 1st lvl - another attack will be after

[image]http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/3524251333.png[/image]

you place in fort HQ army, your 3 div cant retrite in fort
if my 2nd attack will be held - i cant greate poket

>Partially true, I was surprised with this attack but it wasn't that easy, you had at least a double line of defence with reserve activation

i desroy line only inf not use noone PZ, it was rly easy
http://www.twitch.tv/tehb12/v/16919689

>I hope you will find a better opponent next time... I will not be yours, I'm a fair opponent and have no problem with losing a game but your comments are very abrupt.

you nice opponent, i just think that now the balance is very good and offended when making judgments about it basing on the opinion of 3 small errors

ps i hope you will take Berlin in this game






STEF78 -> Battle for Moscow (9/21/2015 6:04:32 PM)

Turn 57, 16th july 1942

Looking forward...

The battle for Moscow has begun

[img]http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/469940bp57moscow.jpg[/img]

Some held results

[img]http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/869726bp57held.jpg[/img]

In the South it's over

[img]http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/487672bp57s.jpg[/img]

And the losses

[img]http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/998434bps57loss.jpg[/img]




chaos45 -> RE: Battle for Moscow (9/21/2015 7:07:11 PM)

With the terrain around Moscow and the amount of forces you have, you should be able to stop him there.

The South is pretty much a lost cause in every game its just a matter of trying not to sacrifice to many troops to German encirclements while buying time/trying not to lose to many cities to fast.




STEF78 -> RE: Battle for Moscow (9/21/2015 8:54:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

With the terrain around Moscow and the amount of forces you have, you should be able to stop him there.

We are 5 turns ahead of the AAR and I'm impressed with the ability of the german to move strong russian stacks in woods...

WITE is a snowball game... loosing 90 units with 3 encirclements means zero chance for me to get a draw.

My bet is the game will end in september 1942 with the fall of Moscow. He has already 235 VP




Blind Sniper -> RE: Battle for Moscow (9/21/2015 9:10:57 PM)

The good thing is that you are doing a lot of experience, in the hard way but still...[:)]




chaos45 -> RE: Battle for Moscow (9/21/2015 9:15:54 PM)

IDK as long as you dont lose anymore big encirclement's you might be alright lol...I prolly lost about 90+ units over the summer to when you total them all up.

He really should have just kept trying to encircle and destroy the Soviet Army south of the OKA and push you to the map edge, as he will take alot of losses and may not even take Moscow pushing into that terrain...





BrianG -> The South (9/21/2015 9:23:38 PM)

Fight back especially down south. And hold those ports at all cost.

You must attack that Hungarian tank division!

He is now vulnerable.

Get some tank corps down there asap.

Let him slug his way to Moscow.





STEF78 -> RE: Battle for Moscow (9/21/2015 9:37:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Blind Sniper

The good thing is that you are doing a lot of experience, in the hard way but still...[:)]

True!

Beekeeper is a good attacker. he perfectly knows how to concentrate his units and use his Pzd/Mot.

He optimzes the mobility of german army

PS: I like the pictures illustrating wargaming.[:)] My wife doesn't understand how it is possible to spend so much time playing what she calls "little war".

My daughters ask me sometimes how is my american/canadian/russian/german/slovak or french opponent




STEF78 -> RE: Battle for Moscow (9/21/2015 9:38:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

IDK as long as you dont lose anymore big encirclement's you might be alright lol...I prolly lost about 90+ units over the summer to when you total them all up.

He really should have just kept trying to encircle and destroy the Soviet Army south of the OKA and push you to the map edge, as he will take alot of losses and may not even take Moscow pushing into that terrain...



I didn"t fight South of the Oka..

And I lost 90 units early july, not end september...




STEF78 -> RE: The South (9/21/2015 9:48:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BrianG

Fight back especially down south. And hold those ports at all cost.

You must attack that Hungarian tank division!

He is now vulnerable.

Get some tank corps down there asap.

Let him slug his way to Moscow.




Not that easy, the picture is after my moves and he has at least a Pzk with 2 Pzd 2 Mot in the area.

I don't think he will go for the South, he only needs 25 VP ( Moscow + Ryazan + Stalingrad)

I have no AP to build Tank Corps, all are required to build rifle corps South of Moscow




M60A3TTS -> RE: The South (9/21/2015 10:16:32 PM)

The Twitch link is a nice idea. I haven't seen a player show their turn like this before.




beekeeper -> RE: The South (9/22/2015 11:13:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

The Twitch link is a nice idea. I haven't seen a player show their turn like this before.


im streaming if play home =)

1st turn this game http://www.twitch.tv/tehb12/v/8603255
2nd http://www.twitch.tv/tehb12/v/8616082
3th http://www.twitch.tv/tehb12/v/8726274




chaos45 -> RE: The South (9/22/2015 11:48:12 AM)

Its neat but some long turns to watch through, and I know I've had some turns take more than even 2 hours....especially when doing lots of AP use and re-organization/looking over commanders report to find specific units an such.

From my first pvp vs Petlon Ive already decided some things I will change for next time I play Soviets. Did a quick count of reinforcing Soviet Cav divisions, its somewhere around 50 divisions so if you dont lose any of your cavalry to encirclements that you get from reinforcements even without building more cav you can easily make 15+ Cav Corps by the winter of 1941. An thats writing off the 6 divisions the Soviets start the game with as you will lose most/all of them probably in first turn encirclements.

Also means that once cavalry go to 10 AP each should be easier to make 20-25 CAV corps I project the soviets need in total for a solid 1942 counterattack force.

The one big difference I would do in my next game is cav corps will be 2 sapper and 1 tank battalion....should help alleviate the T60/T70 shortage Im seeing in 1942 due to massive losses especially once you start using tank corps. As my first game did 2x tank battalions 1x sapper. You get about the same CV but burn all those tanks throughout 1942....sappers might be easier to keep up to strength in the long run.




STEF78 -> Battle for Moscow (9/22/2015 6:53:56 PM)

Turn 58, 23th July 1942

I pay for the loss of units earlier. I'm unable to both defend efficiently the bridgehead and the whole Oka bank.

Another bridgehead is created.

Some pressure around Vyazma. I begin to know Beekeeper's gameplay. Pzd/Mot will appear soon in this area. But I have no choice, 43th Army is tranferred South of Moscow

[img]http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/299670bp58moscow.jpg[/img]




Blind Sniper -> RE: Battle for Moscow (9/22/2015 9:32:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78


quote:

ORIGINAL: Blind Sniper

The good thing is that you are doing a lot of experience, in the hard way but still...[:)]

True!

Beekeeper is a good attacker. he perfectly knows how to concentrate his units and use his Pzd/Mot.

He optimzes the mobility of german army

PS: I like the pictures illustrating wargaming.[:)] My wife doesn't understand how it is possible to spend so much time playing what she calls "little war".

My daughters ask me sometimes how is my american/canadian/russian/german/slovak or french opponent



Ah ah I know it, every so often my son wants to speak with the guy I'm playing on Skype (he is 4 years old).
Time and money for what? Pushing counters (real or digital)...[:D]




STEF78 -> Battle for Moscow (9/23/2015 7:26:21 PM)

Turn 59, 30th july 1942

Beekeeper hammers my defence South of Moscow. Another strong move arrives from the west (picture before my moves)

[img]http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/276678bp59.jpg[/img]

I'm able to do some successfull counterattacks. Note the difference between the number of men involved and the final odd. 29th mot is attacked 3 times (2retreat, 1 rout)

See also the inefficiency of soviet air units

[img]http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/148144bp59battle.jpg[/img]

In the South, 3 pzd 2 mot...

[img]http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/492796bp59s.jpg[/img]




chaos45 -> RE: Battle for Moscow (9/23/2015 9:18:38 PM)

inefficiency of Soviet Air units?

You had alot of air committed and they flew into a decent amount of German fighters each battle....its still summer 1942 German fighters will still win most air engagements unless you outnumber them by droves. However he doesnt have enough fighters to cover everything is the key.

Also make sure to ground strike the German units you intend to attack as the first thing you do with your air units in a turn. Adds alot of disruption if you get 2-3 good sized air raids on enemy ground units before your actual assaults and then hopefully you roll well and your forces commit even more air units to the actual attack.

Im happy when I see 200+ total Soviet planes committed to an attack/defense, air to air losses dont matter for the soviets its all about those planes going in and doing something disruption is key to winning battles most of the time and air attacks cause a fair amount usually.




STEF78 -> RE: Battle for Moscow (9/23/2015 9:55:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

inefficiency of Soviet Air units?

I was refering to the loss ratio 6/1.[;)]

The massive commitment of soviet air units is surely due to the range between the fights and the airbases (roughly 3 to 5 hexes)




chaos45 -> RE: Battle for Moscow (9/23/2015 10:53:58 PM)

honestly you did pretty good your fighters protected the bombers well. Against that many German fighters I have seen much higher bomber losses lol. Seen raids against German airfields cost me 100 aircraft a pop lol.




STEF78 -> The agony (9/24/2015 9:08:52 PM)

Turn 60, 6th august 1942

South of Moscow, I'm not able to stop german advance, even my strongest stacks can be routed.

Some successfull counterattacks... but I still miss 50 units which would have prevented Beekeeper from being able to attack Moscow at full strength

[img]http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/906828bp60moscow.jpg[/img]

In the South some minor fights but I pay for being too optimistic. I will loose 1 cav corps

[img]http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/637646bp60s.jpg[/img]

A view of the losses and the OOB

[img]http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/644268bp60losses.jpg[/img]

[img]http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/308912bp60oob.jpg[/img]




STEF78 -> All in (9/24/2015 9:21:44 PM)

Turn 61, 13th august 1942

Situation is critical South of Moscow, Beekeeper is able to move 3 consecutive hexes strongly held to create a breakthrough which proved to be unbreakable. I gather my best units and commander in a desperate last attempt.

[img]http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/572853bp61moscow.jpg[/img]

Heavy fights...

[img]http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/858258bp62battle.jpg[/img]

This time it's all in! But the attack isn't coordinated and too late. I'm not proud...

[img]http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/601248bp62.png[/img]

A tank corps manages to mop up german airbases

[img]http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/880134bp62air.jpg[/img]






STEF78 -> Surrender.... (9/24/2015 9:27:41 PM)

Turn 62, 20th august 1942

No comment. I give the choice to Beekeeper continuing in order for him to achieve the 260VP or surrender. I accepted my unconditional surrender... Congratulations to him for this victory.

[img]http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/464266bp62moscow.jpg[/img]




STEF78 -> What's up? (9/24/2015 9:38:48 PM)

Some thoughts about this game.

1) Beekeeper is a far better player than me. He deserves his victory.

2) My 1941's campaign was quite good but my inexperience in 1942 as soviet proved to be decisive

3) Random weather is a good option even if it's a bonus for the german player in 1942.

3) I made several significant mistakes en 1942
- the russian must give up in South beginning at the last turn of february
- ground South of Tula is worthless
- I wasn't able to concentrate my counterattack units at the right place
- keep your front line away from german infs in the south

4) AP is key!

5) Build recon units and use it!

6) 200 HI and 300 arm is ok

It was a nice game played at a high rate. Thanks to Beekeeper.







schascha -> RE: Surrender.... (9/24/2015 9:42:38 PM)

thx stef for this AAR.

The year 42 is too difficult for the russian with this patch.




M60A3TTS -> RE: Surrender.... (9/24/2015 9:43:35 PM)

Hate to say it, but plain bad decision making at the end. You should have pulled everyone out of the Kaluga area on turn 59. When the game is on the line, defending Kaluga or the river line nearby is not a priority.




STEF78 -> RE: Surrender.... (9/24/2015 9:47:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: schascha

thx stef for this AAR.

The year 42 is too difficult for the russian with this patch.

1942 is difficult, and above all with random weather, but if I had given ground ealier in the South, the game would have been different




beekeeper -> RE: Surrender.... (9/24/2015 9:49:40 PM)

Thx for game and aar =)





loki100 -> RE: Surrender.... (9/24/2015 9:50:56 PM)

thanks for the AAR, it is interesting to see, not least you clearly did well in 1941. But yes, you simply can't expect to carry forward any benefits from 1941 into 1942 under 1.08.03/4.

but you've made my basic mistake, you simply can't fight the Germans in front of the Don for 1942.




STEF78 -> RE: Surrender.... (9/24/2015 9:51:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Hate to say it, but plain bad decision making at the end. You should have pulled everyone out of the Kaluga area on turn 59. When the game is on the line, defending Kaluga or the river line nearby is not a priority.

Always the same dilemna...

The 11-13 rifle corps stack (2 rifle corps) hadn't enough MP to escape. I prefered rout the mot...

and I couldn't afford giving too much hexes too fast, I had at least 12 turns to hold before mud....




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