Might get this, finally (Full Version)

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Alexander Seil -> Might get this, finally (4/17/2015 11:26:29 PM)

I've been thinking about finally getting AE. I actually have WitP on a dusty CD somewhere, but could never get into the campaign, mostly because it seemed to be filled with bugs and kept getting huge patches - I got it very early on.

It seems, however, that, finally, the game is ready.

Is AI at least somewhat competent?

Is the game playable on larger turn lengths? (It's not the # of units, it's the # of turns that's the scary part about a wargame like this)

Is convoy automation working properly?

Also, it seems there is still a lot of development on-going, at least semi-officially. So, if I were to buy, what does an up-to-date WitP:AE look like? What are the latest official/semi-official patches and critical mods? Is vanilla a good choice with the last patches?




jamesjohns -> RE: Might get this, finally (4/18/2015 12:36:14 AM)

I highly recommend getting WITPAE, I also like the Dababes mods. I was a long time lurker on the boards and got is about 3 years ago, I don't regret it one bit (expect once when I got all my carriers sunk by March 42! while learning [;)]

I've been playing wargames since I was a kid; started with Tactics II when I was a kid 4 decades ago. Played a variety of wargames both cardboard and computerized.

The AI is good, it has a lot to manage but it does well for the size of this game

Playability is the tough part of this game. There is a lot of clicking and record keeping involved, but then again, this is a huge game and I have yet to see anything of this size, scope and scale. There could be an improvement of the interface and less clicking but that would be a big undertaking and I have the utmost respect for what the developers have done with this game.

I do not expect there is any game out there of this size, historical accuracy and enjoyment. On a "per hour of play for $ spent, it is a steal.




Alexander Seil -> RE: Might get this, finally (4/18/2015 12:51:15 AM)

To be honest, my main beef with the interface is how little stuff the map tells you. Having to click on a hex (or hover over a tiny box) to figure out if it's occupied by an armored corps or a platoon of Malayan porters is, let's say, less than ideal. Otherwise, the amount of clicks you appear to need to coordinate even a major offensive is much smaller than in a traditional wargame, where each unit is moved, each turn, manually, since TFs happily steam on their way and airbases keep sending out patrols; just need to set it up and let it run.




Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Might get this, finally (4/18/2015 4:13:16 AM)

This game is not for you. Keep moving.




jmalter -> RE: Might get this, finally (4/18/2015 4:42:04 AM)

hi Alexander,

a) the AI seems both competent & v. aggressive, but can fall into operational patterns.

b) I have decent games vs. the AI using 2-day turns.

c) I don't use the convoy automation, or auto sub-ops. The 'CS convoy' system works well for me.

d) An up-to-date install would be:
1: the base d/l or disc program, then add
2: the 'latest official patch' (Patch 06, d/l from Matrix site), then add
3: the 'unofficial public beta' (Patch 07, d/l from the Tech Support section of this forum).

e) the DaBabes mods are huge fun, but I gather that most of them aren't useable vs. the Allied AI.




Yaab -> RE: Might get this, finally (4/18/2015 7:05:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alexander Seil

I've been thinking about finally getting AE. I actually have WitP on a dusty CD somewhere, but could never get into the campaign, mostly because it seemed to be filled with bugs and kept getting huge patches - I got it very early on.

It seems, however, that, finally, the game is ready.

Is AI at least somewhat competent?

Is the game playable on larger turn lengths? (It's not the # of units, it's the # of turns that's the scary part about a wargame like this)

Is convoy automation working properly?

Also, it seems there is still a lot of development on-going, at least semi-officially. So, if I were to buy, what does an up-to-date WitP:AE look like? What are the latest official/semi-official patches and critical mods? Is vanilla a good choice with the last patches?

quote:

I've been thinking about finally getting AE. I actually have WitP on a dusty CD somewhere, but could never get into the campaign, mostly because it seemed to be filled with bugs and kept getting huge patches - I got it very early on.

It seems, however, that, finally, the game is ready.

Is AI at least somewhat competent?

Is the game playable on larger turn lengths? (It's not the # of units, it's the # of turns that's the scary part about a wargame like this)

Is convoy automation working properly?

Also, it seems there is still a lot of development on-going, at least semi-officially. So, if I were to buy, what does an up-to-date WitP:AE look like? What are the latest official/semi-official patches and critical mods? Is vanilla a good choice with the last patches?


The game is great. Actually, there should be a note on the game's box warning you how addictive this stuff is. "May cause depression, divorce, unemployment, fits of rage, damaged wrists, insomnia". Worse than cigs.




Alexander Seil -> RE: Might get this, finally (4/18/2015 7:57:14 AM)

The AI is pretty important - there's no way I'll be able to finish the grand campaign against a human, I think. It's good to hear that it works.




warspite1 -> RE: Might get this, finally (4/18/2015 8:38:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alexander Seil

The AI is pretty important - there's no way I'll be able to finish the grand campaign against a human, I think. It's good to hear that it works.
warspite1

Good to see you have not risen to, and ignored, the rubbish, petty, and unhelpful post earlier in the thread. Don't worry, as you see from the majority who posted here there are plenty of really nice, helpful people and if you want to ask more questions before making the outlay I am sure they will be only too willing to help.

Hope you make the right choice for you.




m10bob -> RE: Might get this, finally (4/18/2015 2:22:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alexander Seil

To be honest, my main beef with the interface is how little stuff the map tells you. Having to click on a hex (or hover over a tiny box) to figure out if it's occupied by an armored corps or a platoon of Malayan porters is, let's say, less than ideal. Otherwise, the amount of clicks you appear to need to coordinate even a major offensive is much smaller than in a traditional wargame, where each unit is moved, each turn, manually, since TFs happily steam on their way and airbases keep sending out patrols; just need to set it up and let it run.



In real life, hovering an air recon unit over a village may tell you it is occupied, but it too may not differentiate soldiers from porters either..."The fog of war" is something nobody can ignore in a game as realistic as this one.

I have used the AI almost exclusively for 10 years, (or as long as Uncommon Valor and War In The Pacific have been out)..
Indeed, it works and the many scenarios made by fellow gamers keeps it very challenging.




jamesjohns -> RE: Might get this, finally (4/18/2015 3:28:19 PM)

The interface, and playability, of the game takes some getting used to, but after a while you will start to get the hang of it. I appreciate the difficulty of seeing information on the map, espically for friendly forces, it would be nice to have more specific information and details on the icons to see at a glance of the map.

But no game is pefect, but it is an outstanding game and I'll repeat myself, but I ahve not seen anything come close to it for scope & historical accuracy and hours of enjoyment. Well worth getting




jmalter -> RE: Might get this, finally (4/19/2015 1:01:40 AM)

In addition to the 'unofficial beta' (which provides some great interface improvements), there are some great 3rd-party tools available - WitP Tracker AE & Combat Reporter are ones that I run concurrently w/ the game, & I'll fire up IntelMonkey pretty regularly. These programs read & display info from the WitP files, but don't talk back to them. They're essential tools for the warrior-accountant!




kbfchicago -> RE: Might get this, finally (4/19/2015 12:21:23 PM)

If your preference in table top games includes "monster" games such as the Europa series by GDW, The Longest Day by AH, World In Flames by ADG, etc... WITP-AE is definitely for you. One of the very few monster computer games that balances what we do as players and what the computer does for us in a manner that let's (and restricts) the play to operational level control. The AI here (as folks often overlook) is not just about the opposing side, the game does a fantastic (fairly realistic) job of modeling and "playing" for your side at as well...flight paths, maintenance, accidents, mine sweeping, et.al.. Not perfect, but very, very good, and as note above...very, very addicting! My 2 cents.




m10bob -> RE: Might get this, finally (4/19/2015 1:30:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kbfchicago

If your preference in table top games includes "monster" games such as the Europa series by GDW, The Longest Day by AH, World In Flames by ADG, etc... WITP-AE is definitely for you. One of the very few monster computer games that balances what we do as players and what the computer does for us in a manner that let's (and restricts) the play to operational level control. The AI here (as folks often overlook) is not just about the opposing side, the game does a fantastic (fairly realistic) job of modeling and "playing" for your side at as well...flight paths, maintenance, accidents, mine sweeping, et.al.. Not perfect, but very, very good, and as note above...very, very addicting! My 2 cents.



You left out Drang Nach Osten when mentioning monster games, or as some call it.."The game the cat destroyed"...[:D]




btd64 -> RE: Might get this, finally (4/20/2015 12:33:01 AM)

There are also AI mods that you can download and install by Andy Mac. Also, the new official update includes the beta work by michaelm. This game is 6 years old and has the largest and most alive following of any game in the Matrix catalog. You will fine a lot of help for your questions. New art you can DL. New map upgrades and styles. And of course a lot of new mods, Big and Small. Most mods will not work with the AI, but playing a Human player introduces a whole new set of possibilities. Enjoy....GP




paradigmblue -> RE: Might get this, finally (4/20/2015 12:57:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kbfchicago

If your preference in table top games includes "monster" games such as the Europa series by GDW, The Longest Day by AH, World In Flames by ADG, etc... WITP-AE is definitely for you. One of the very few monster computer games that balances what we do as players and what the computer does for us in a manner that let's (and restricts) the play to operational level control. The AI here (as folks often overlook) is not just about the opposing side, the game does a fantastic (fairly realistic) job of modeling and "playing" for your side at as well...flight paths, maintenance, accidents, mine sweeping, et.al.. Not perfect, but very, very good, and as note above...very, very addicting! My 2 cents.


As a counterpoint, I have never enjoyed table-top games, or war-games of any type. Before WitP:AE, I would immediately make a decision not to buy a game if I heard the words "Grognardy" or "Hex-Based". I read a few AARs, however, and decided to give it a try. I was immediately hooked.

So while those that are giving you advice that you need to be a type of person that has enjoyed incredibly detailed, micro-management style games in the past to enjoy WitP:AE, that's not the case. WitP:AE weaves it's own magic, and while yes, it is brain-breaking in it's minutiae, it is also one of the most satisfying games I have ever played.




m10bob -> RE: Might get this, finally (4/20/2015 2:02:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: paradigmblue


quote:

ORIGINAL: kbfchicago

If your preference in table top games includes "monster" games such as the Europa series by GDW, The Longest Day by AH, World In Flames by ADG, etc... WITP-AE is definitely for you. One of the very few monster computer games that balances what we do as players and what the computer does for us in a manner that let's (and restricts) the play to operational level control. The AI here (as folks often overlook) is not just about the opposing side, the game does a fantastic (fairly realistic) job of modeling and "playing" for your side at as well...flight paths, maintenance, accidents, mine sweeping, et.al.. Not perfect, but very, very good, and as note above...very, very addicting! My 2 cents.


As a counterpoint, I have never enjoyed table-top games, or war-games of any type. Before WitP:AE, I would immediately make a decision not to buy a game if I heard the words "Grognardy" or "Hex-Based". I read a few AARs, however, and decided to give it a try. I was immediately hooked.

So while those that are giving you advice that you need to be a type of person that has enjoyed incredibly detailed, micro-management style games in the past to enjoy WitP:AE, that's not the case. WitP:AE weaves it's own magic, and while yes, it is brain-breaking in it's minutiae, it is also one of the most satisfying games I have ever played.

Who could have said it better................




rustysi -> RE: Might get this, finally (4/20/2015 11:23:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

This game is not for you. Keep moving.


Now, now Moose...[:D]

Seriously though, if you're not willing to invest a lot of time move on. I've been playing war games for five decades and I have found this one to be among the top, but trying to become a competent player will consume many, many hours. This is not to say the game isn't enjoyable, and you don't have to do a full campaign to get satisfaction. One thing you can count on here is lots of help. I doubt I'd be able to play at all if not for the forum. So, if you like amazing depth and detail jump in, the water's fine. Whatever you choose, good luck.[;)]






Alexander Seil -> RE: Might get this, finally (4/21/2015 3:20:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: paradigmblue


quote:

ORIGINAL: kbfchicago

If your preference in table top games includes "monster" games such as the Europa series by GDW, The Longest Day by AH, World In Flames by ADG, etc... WITP-AE is definitely for you. One of the very few monster computer games that balances what we do as players and what the computer does for us in a manner that let's (and restricts) the play to operational level control. The AI here (as folks often overlook) is not just about the opposing side, the game does a fantastic (fairly realistic) job of modeling and "playing" for your side at as well...flight paths, maintenance, accidents, mine sweeping, et.al.. Not perfect, but very, very good, and as note above...very, very addicting! My 2 cents.


As a counterpoint, I have never enjoyed table-top games, or war-games of any type. Before WitP:AE, I would immediately make a decision not to buy a game if I heard the words "Grognardy" or "Hex-Based". I read a few AARs, however, and decided to give it a try. I was immediately hooked.

So while those that are giving you advice that you need to be a type of person that has enjoyed incredibly detailed, micro-management style games in the past to enjoy WitP:AE, that's not the case. WitP:AE weaves it's own magic, and while yes, it is brain-breaking in it's minutiae, it is also one of the most satisfying games I have ever played.


I'm the kind of person who enjoys the big TOAW scenarios. In moderation. Never touched a board wargame in my life, though.

Looking at WitP, it's not really the map that's concerning, but the length. I didn't want to go through three weeks of play only to realize that the AI is brain-dead, so what people have said is encouraging.




HansBolter -> RE: Might get this, finally (4/21/2015 11:30:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob


quote:

ORIGINAL: kbfchicago

If your preference in table top games includes "monster" games such as the Europa series by GDW, The Longest Day by AH, World In Flames by ADG, etc... WITP-AE is definitely for you. One of the very few monster computer games that balances what we do as players and what the computer does for us in a manner that let's (and restricts) the play to operational level control. The AI here (as folks often overlook) is not just about the opposing side, the game does a fantastic (fairly realistic) job of modeling and "playing" for your side at as well...flight paths, maintenance, accidents, mine sweeping, et.al.. Not perfect, but very, very good, and as note above...very, very addicting! My 2 cents.



You left out Drang Nach Osten when mentioning monster games, or as some call it.."The game the cat destroyed"...[:D]


DNO was the predecessor to the Europa series. In Europa DNO was split into Fire in the East and Scorched Earth.

The analogy is consistent. Many of us regulars here were mega-board gamers back in the day.




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