RE: OT; Another Name that Ship (Full Version)

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition



Message


Symon -> RE: OT; Another Name that Ship (8/18/2014 9:45:19 PM)

Bullwinkle gets the brass ring !! I am impressed.

The Virginia, barke, 1607. The first “ship” built in America in the Popham colony. Popham was a contemporary of Jamestown, perhaps a tad earlier, but was abandoned for lack of support and follow-on colonists, so Jamestown became the first “successful” colony.

Popham was established at the mouth of the Kennebec River in May 1607. What’s interesting is that the Northern colonies were established by the Virginia Company, while the Southern colonies (including Virginia) were established by the London Company. Go figure.

The Popham colony was established 13 years before the pilgrims landed at Plymouth. The colony lasted one year, almost to the day. The untoward death of John Popham in 1608 put paid to the experiment. There wasn’t much there to recommend it: I mean Jamestown had “tobacco”, hootz gazoots. Popham had … trees; that incredible forest from Maine to the Ohio that was home to the Abenaki and the Five Nations. Good, but not economically supportable.

The Virginia (properly the Virginia of Sagadahoc) was the first true ship built in America. She was a proof of concept in that Raleigh Gilbert (colony president) undertook to prove that ships could be built of colonial timbers. She made at least two recorded trans-Atlantic voyages and survived a hurricane that sank larger vessels in a convoy to Jamestown.

She was built of native maple and made the first use, in recorded history, of North American clear pine; what is now called “mast pine”. European shipwrights knew nothing about the characteristics of North American timber and would ever refer to them as “clough” and “fir”.

Virginia used white maple for partial framing. From what we can get from her builder logs and offsets, she had “loft” frames in white maple, and intermediate frames in whatever was available (probably ash, or walnut).

Her construction techniques and marine materials were exactly those of the Continental Frigates Hancock, Randolph, Raleigh, 175 years later. 200 years later, Joshua Humphries went with southern live oak for framing and spans, but every other timber was specified to use the same wood that the Virginia pioneered. “Old Ironsides” sides, were planked with good old Maine clear pine. Just like Virginia.




AW1Steve -> RE: OT; Another Name that Ship (8/18/2014 10:11:32 PM)

Well done Moose! I'm embarrassed, as I grew up fairly close to where she was built , and had certainly heard of her , but never ever seen a picture (or even sketch of her). [:o][X(][:(][8|]




Bullwinkle58 -> RE: OT; Another Name that Ship (8/18/2014 10:16:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

Well done Moose! I'm embarrassed, as I grew up fairly close to where she was built , and had certainly heard of her , but never ever seen a picture (or even sketch of her). [:o][X(][:(][8|]


I'm no expert, believe me.

I grew up fifty miles from Jamestown, and I thought she might be one of Christopher Newport's ships (Discovery, Godspeed, Susan Constant.) But they are square-rigged. So I googled "lateen mainsail" and got a lot of pictures. Symon's was one of them.

The link I posted has a pretty good article on the ship and the failed colony.




Symon -> RE: OT; Another Name that Ship (8/18/2014 10:23:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
The bow sail design is old, but maybe not quite that old. The main and mizzen sails are from Mediterranean designs, so I'd say not later than about 1700, and probably much older. The bow looks Dutch to me. I have no idea of a name.

Dude, you pull at my heartstrings. Yes, the lateen rig came to Spain, and thence to the Spanish Netherlands from the wars in the Med against the Moslem incursions. Don Juan was not a stupid man and internalized many aspects of Moslem technology. The lateen rig was recognized by the Dutch, as well as others, as very interesting and was used extensively.

The gaff rig was, as far as marine historians know, developed in the Baltic, Hanseatic, cities as a harbor boat. Some people link it to a geftjajt and make claims for the name, but nonetheless it was a pervasive harbor rig in Hanover, and the Dutch took it over wholesale. This was in the 1400s. They called it gjift, sprijt, slujt, whathaveyou. So there is a bunch of of rig stuff that goes back to the dawn of time (to the 1400s) and carries forward into the kinda/sorta modern period.

Every single one of these ancient rigging alternatives are being used by some of the highest tech sailboats being designed, built ,and sailed, in the world today.




obvert -> RE: OT; Another Name that Ship (8/18/2014 10:54:02 PM)

Some great ships and even better histories here. Love it!

How about this one? Might be way too easy for this crowd, but we'll see.


[image]local://upfiles/37283/8584D95ACD3549CEAED84232BCCEB595.jpg[/image]




pontiouspilot -> RE: OT; Another Name that Ship (8/19/2014 12:55:57 AM)

looks like an old Dutchman to me….there are a couple of old PGs in game and my guess is that is one.




AW1Steve -> RE: OT; Another Name that Ship (8/19/2014 1:01:03 AM)

Actually it looks to me like either the Maine or her sister Texas....the AC's (referred to as battleships).




Jorge_Stanbury -> RE: OT; Another Name that Ship (8/19/2014 1:11:10 AM)

Looks like the Maine, but look at that turret on the bow




wdolson -> RE: OT; Another Name that Ship (8/19/2014 1:14:10 AM)

Looks like the Zhenyuan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_battleship_Chin%27en

The clue for me was that this is one of those colorized pictures of IJN ships that the guy in Japan has been doing. I admit I had to do a search for the specific ship.

Bill




geofflambert -> RE: OT; Another Name that Ship (8/19/2014 2:08:54 AM)

Here's an idea. Let's create a scenario between the San Pablo and this biche.




obvert -> RE: OT; Another Name that Ship (8/19/2014 5:48:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

Looks like the Zhenyuan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_battleship_Chin%27en

The clue for me was that this is one of those colorized pictures of IJN ships that the guy in Japan has been doing. I admit I had to do a search for the specific ship.

Bill


Bingo!

Zhenyuan was a Chinese ship from the Beiyang Navy that was captured by the Japanese during the First Sino-Japanese War. She was renamed the Chin'en and served through the Boxer rebellion and the Russo-Japanese War, including at Tsushima. Although obsolete at the time, she served with the 5th Fleet attacking Russian troop transports.




Page: <<   < prev  1 2 3 [4]

Valid CSS!




Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI
0.0546875