Lost with research.. (Full Version)

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janamdo -> Lost with research.. (7/29/2014 12:09:49 PM)

I did some "research" to the research calculation and and how the actual research output is calculated is understood by me i think.
Now only setting up the reseach lokation ... i read different approaches
What is the best research lokation set up and why?


Note: research bonusses for scientist are not stacked for the actual research output, if the research lokations are scattered ... is that correct ?
What does this means..
Scientist weapons on location A get a bonus x and Scientist weapons on location B get also a bonus y .. not stacked..but the highest bonus is counting?
Please if someone can explains thisthoroughly and once for all .. i am lost with this.




Vardis -> RE: Lost with research.. (7/29/2014 1:00:43 PM)

For each area of research (energy, high-tech, weapons), you get the highest bonus from one location, where that bonus is calculated as the sum of the location bonus and the bonus for scientists at that location. The scientist bonus is calculated as the highest skill scientist plus 1/2 the 2nd highest, plus 1/3 the 3rd highest, etc.

If you have a 25% energy location with a 30% scientist and a 10% scientist, you will get 25 + 30 + 10/2 = 60% bonus for that location. You only get the highest bonus per area of research, so additional energy research sites don't help any, unless you're concerned about your stations getting blown up.




janamdo -> RE: Lost with research.. (7/29/2014 3:09:42 PM)

Thanks for the explaining .. it seems to me that the homeworld is the place to be and to start there with the research ( are there other options too ?)




Vardis -> RE: Lost with research.. (7/29/2014 5:49:34 PM)

If you're starting pre-warp, sure. There will also be one planet in your system with a bonus (it's typically wherever the frigate spawns), but that will also be where the kaltors spawn, so I wouldn't build anything there until after you clear them out.

But the homeworld station w/ research labs are only so you get some research capacity going. I don't think I've seen one with a bonus.


Depending on what difficulty you're playing, you may want to avoid "research bases" entirely and instead build starbases with research labs, because the AI seems to like blowing up research stations with sabotage missions but ignores starbases. At least that's been my experience.




janamdo -> RE: Lost with research.. (7/29/2014 6:49:33 PM)

We are talking about the importance of bonusses for the research output, but what parameter is directly involved with this ..to see the effect( s) of the extra bonus output ?..my assumption is that the research speed is increasing ..?
quote:

Depending on what difficulty you're playing, you may want to avoid "research bases" entirely and instead build starbases with research labs, because the AI seems to like blowing up research stations with sabotage missions but ignores starbases. At least that's been my experience.


This is a shortcoming of the AI ?, because every potential base what can serve as a research station is a possible candidate for detecting by equipment of a enemy , although if there are high tech components that can stop this tracking , by using superior technology.
It is cheating the game ... to use starbases instead of research bases or do i miss something?
Makes the game unplayable ?




Vardis -> RE: Lost with research.. (7/29/2014 10:33:25 PM)

It doesn't make the game unplayable. I just don't like losing my scientists. If they blew up my research station and my scientists managed to evac in an escape pod or something and I had to rebuild, I wouldn't make the effort. When they kill off 80% in bonuses or more, I tend to get mad and want to rage quit. :)




corwin90 -> RE: Lost with research.. (7/29/2014 11:43:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vardis

It doesn't make the game unplayable. I just don't like losing my scientists. If they blew up my research station and my scientists managed to evac in an escape pod or something and I had to rebuild, I wouldn't make the effort. When they kill off 80% in bonuses or more, I tend to get mad and want to rage quit. :)


One of my favorite features of the game is the autosave. I have it set to autosave every 30 minutes. I have gone back more than once after I realized my ultra-genius scientist increasing my research potential by a whopping 20% was on my absolutely most remote research station--which the pirates just destroyed!!




feelotraveller -> RE: Lost with research.. (7/30/2014 3:14:44 AM)

With pirates I will take my lumps because there is something I could have done about it - making the research station a mini-fortress or leaving a few combat ships lying around.

When it has been sabotage I have reloaded an earlier save on more than one occasion if only to evacuate the science team in time. [8|]





janamdo -> RE: Lost with research.. (7/30/2014 8:41:58 AM)

The idea that someone can built a research station what is not detectable by a enemey makes the game not believable




janamdo -> RE: Lost with research.. (7/31/2014 10:27:29 AM)

I lost my interest in Distant Worlds , because research stations can be build free of enemy attacks
Am i wrong with this ?




Vardis -> RE: Lost with research.. (7/31/2014 1:44:06 PM)

The AI does not appear to target starbases that have research labs with the same frequency for intelligence agent sabotage missions as it does a base specifically marked with a research station role. That has been my personal experience, it's not like I have access to the code and can analyze how it makes its decisions. I didn't say the AI won't attack them at all with ships or whatnot, if that's what upsets you. It's not like they are invisible.

Think of it this way. Instead of building a research station at a location and then sending out flyers to all my enemies proclaiming that I'm having a big party to celebrate the opening of a brand new research facility, I instead build a generic starbase that has a few research labs buried inside it, where my scientists can research in secret. In the first case, enemy agents like to blow them up. In the second, they go after other targets.




janamdo -> RE: Lost with research.. (7/31/2014 1:55:48 PM)

Thanks that you give me the interest in Distant Worlds back.
A research facility in a starbase is not invisible , but the AI does not track them with the same frequency as it is for a default research facility as i undertood it now.
Why there is the possiblity to build a research facility on a starbase ? ..it seems to be all the time better to build it there than a standard research station
The standard research facility is now not needed anymore




ehsumrell1 -> RE: Lost with research.. (7/31/2014 2:13:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: janamdo

I lost my interest in Distant Worlds , because research stations can be build free of enemy attacks
Am i wrong with this ?


Hello janamdo;

In my numerous amount of game testing & playing:

1.) I have had MANY of my research stations AND Resort Bases destroyed by enemy sabotage missions,
and still do. Especially if I don't happen to have an Intelligence Agent with a decent Counter-Intel
stat on duty. The only problem I have is that I don't ever know which race empire was responsible. It
does NOT have to be a race empire you're at war with. I find this WAD.

2.) The enemy Intel Agents ESPECIALLY seek out Starbases with Labs (and ofttimes with Fat, Smart, Nerdy Scientists on them with the Ultra Genius Trait). I've even once had a well fortified Fuel Depot
sitting covertly (or so I thought) in the corner of a Hydrogen Gas Cloud and thought it was safe but
[sm=00000959.gif]

3.) Enemy Agents will destroy Bases & Labs during the building process as well. Nothing more worse than
having a well placed Station with 1 more component to be built before completion to go [sm=00000959.gif]

Just my experiences, and I've been playing this game for quite a while!
[:)]




Vardis -> RE: Lost with research.. (7/31/2014 5:25:24 PM)

The AI could definitely be smarter about what it's targeting. I'll go ahead and build mostly empty research stations around my HW, and it seems to really like trying to blow those up (thus risking an agent), even though those are completely worthless to me, considering I have no one on them, and I'm getting no research bonus at that location, and I always have more research capacity than total empire research potential after about 1 minute into the game. Lately, agents haven't been much of a problem though. My last game I caught around 30 agents to maybe 5 getting through (all targeting constructors or mining stations) because counter-espionage is so effective.


I get the impression that research stations and labs in general were more meaningful at some point, but I don't know the history on this stuff so I'm just guessing. Maybe it depends on your difficultly setting. The way it's working now, I think it'd be cleaner to have one research lab facility that enables to you take advantage of a bonus at a particular location, and then have a slider or something on the research screen that lets you specify what percentage of your empire research should be focused on a specific area. And maybe make bonuses from multiple locations stack the same way that multiple scientists at the same location stack, so if I have 30% HT location and another 28% HT location, I get a 30 + 28/2 = 44% HT bonus from locations. Then I might care more about securing additional research locations.




janamdo -> RE: Lost with research.. (7/31/2014 7:50:02 PM)

Hello ehsumrell1,
It is boom boom all the time in your game [:)]
1) Strange not to know who is responsible for the demolition of your bases... is there mad race in the game ?
2) How to keep the enemy agents out a system?

Still not clear why i should build a starbase with research facilities instead of the default research station ..has someone not protected his default research base with counter-intel or a not strong enough defense ?






Vardis -> RE: Lost with research.. (7/31/2014 10:36:14 PM)

You don't keep enemy agents out of a specific system. You have intelligence agents you can use for counter espionage and that's pretty much it. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. I have never had a "starbase" role base destroyed by enemy agents. I had one game where my research stations were getting wiped out constantly. It might have something to do with playing on extreme difficulty with lots of very strong pirates whom I'm making very angry. So I stopped building research stations (other than as distractions). Your experience may vary. I'd suggest just playing the game and forming your own strategies.




johanwanderer -> RE: Lost with research.. (8/3/2014 7:20:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: janamdo

Hello ehsumrell1,
It is boom boom all the time in your game [:)]
1) Strange not to know who is responsible for the demolition of your bases... is there mad race in the game ?
2) How to keep the enemy agents out a system?

Still not clear why i should build a starbase with research facilities instead of the default research station ..has someone not protected his default research base with counter-intel or a not strong enough defense ?





I believe the reason is two fold:
1. A starbase is usually build with more defensive structures in mind, therefore will last longer in an attack. Maybe just enough for reenforcements.
2. I believe a bigger a base / ship, the more it is to sabotage. You can try it out yourself and see the differences between sabotaging a gas mine, research lab, small and big spaceports.

Having said that, you can always design your research stations to be bigger and better fortified. That's how I tend to build mine, at the size limit for off-colony bases. Please note that I usually only have one of each types of lab on my research stations. The remainder are strictly for defense. Most of my labs are on spaceports.




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