About the Fighting (Full Version)

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Mad Russian -> About the Fighting (4/25/2013 1:05:23 PM)

It was my job to create the battles and battlefields that you will find in the game. The first thing I did was to discount the earlier FPG notion of a few maps working for all the scenarios. In FPC:RS every single scenario has it's own unique map created from Google Earth.

There will be stand alone scenarios for US, West German and British forces facing Soviet combat units. In all there are 15 stand alone scenarios.

The campaigns are created of unique scenarios themselves and they too have their own unique maps. The number of campaigns is going to be determined by the number of days I have left before release time. We are working on the scenarios/campaigns daily. There will be at least one campaign that ships with the game. Hopefully 2 or 3. There are scenario maps for 3 campaigns. If all the campaigns do not make the game at the time of release we will include those maps as they were create months ago.

Good Hunting.

MR



Mad Russian -> RE: About the Fighting (4/25/2013 1:11:09 PM)

Where you will be fighting is determined solely by my story line. There are extensive briefings, those of you that have played my scenarios before know my briefings are anything but brief, because I feel that the briefings set the tone of the battle you are to play. Each scenario has full briefings for the overall situation and for each side.

You will be fighting for your life as a NATO commander during the first week of the war. Can you survive?

You will be trying to crush NATO defenses as a Soviet commander during the first week of the war. Can you survive?

The rapid pace of modern combat will leave you little time to make decisions. Make the wrong decision and the results will be brutal. [X(]

Good Hunting.

MR



Mad Russian -> RE: About the Fighting (4/26/2013 1:50:50 AM)

While the scenarios are not required to be played in order they are created in order. The end result of that is you get some overlap on many of the maps and certain areas, like the Fulda Gap have extensive map coverage.

Another interesting thing is that if there was a reason, we could make map packs for certain areas and release those. Map packs would be easy to create and would add to the coverage for not just this base game but other expansions as well.

Good Hunting.

MR



Missouri_Rebel -> RE: About the Fighting (4/26/2013 2:54:29 AM)

This looks really good. I love the maps except for the color of water. Way too bright imo.

I await further development.

mo reb



Mad Russian -> RE: About the Fighting (4/26/2013 3:04:00 AM)

Ok, I see how this is going...I'm going to be the only one that likes that color blue. I can't wait to see what color you guys pick when you do your own maps.

Good Hunting.

MR



Mad Russian -> RE: About the Fighting (4/26/2013 3:08:44 AM)

Some maps could have entire campaigns done right on them. Here is an example of a map with two river valleys on it. This is some extremely tough terrain to cross and I don't think it can be done in a single game of 10-12 hours duration.

Maybe Guderian still lives but I'd have to see it to believe it.

The fight depicted on the map could be recon forces in small skirmish fights, medium sized forces in attack/blocking positions or large forces trying to force a breakthrough or counterattack. All that is just for the east edge of the map. Then there is the strip of land between the river valleys, crossing the second river and then exiting the west edge. That is 4 battles I can envision taking place on this one map from east to west only. I could come up with other scenarios with ease.

Good Hunting.

MR

[image]local://upfiles/28652/278D4F3718EF49F8917C58C6C3F897AF.jpg[/image]



Missouri_Rebel -> RE: About the Fighting (4/26/2013 3:09:58 AM)

well Im thinking maybe something closer to this.



Mad Russian -> RE: About the Fighting (4/26/2013 3:12:07 AM)

That would work. Any color would work. We actually chose that color blue for the contrast for the terrain coding program.

Good Hunting.

MR



Missouri_Rebel -> RE: About the Fighting (4/26/2013 3:14:40 AM)

[image]https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/44313_515523075175088_1694520429_n.jpg[/image]

It's when the map view is zoomed in that the purple seems most out of place. But it's just a color. I'm looking forward to checking this out. Seems promising.



CapnDarwin -> RE: About the Fighting (4/26/2013 3:34:22 AM)

If you are referring to the "purple" hexes, actually a transparent blue over the green ground, those are setup locations and it goes away after the start of the game.



Missouri_Rebel -> RE: About the Fighting (4/26/2013 3:37:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

If you are referring to the "purple" hexes, actually a transparent blue over the green ground, those are setup locations and it goes away after the start of the game.



Nah. The deeper water hexes is what I was referring to. Maybe they just look 'purpleish' on my monitor.



CapnDarwin -> RE: About the Fighting (4/26/2013 3:43:23 AM)

The color appears to be off and I'm not sure why. Everyone's monitors are different. Heck looks different between my two screens.



wodin -> RE: About the Fighting (4/26/2013 9:27:31 AM)

I'd prob prefer a more light grey blue for water...but for those who have difficulty with eyesight the current colour stands out and makes it easy feature to spot.



goodwoodrw -> RE: About the Fighting (4/26/2013 10:12:13 AM)

These maps don't appear to show elevation. Is there a map overlay that does this?

[



jday305 -> RE: About the Fighting (4/26/2013 11:24:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BASB

These maps don't appear to show elevation. Is there a map overlay that does this?

[




I would like to see elevations as well. Will this game have LOS that will effect spotting distant units? Overall, I love these maps that have been on this forum. I'll be in line when this game comes out.



CapnDarwin -> RE: About the Fighting (4/26/2013 11:51:47 AM)

The maps do show elevation in the different shades of green in the hex. Again it tend to be clearer on a full up monitor. There is also a map function to show elevation level, visual hindrance, and mobility of the hexes on the map and the current hex information is displayed on a status bar on the interface.



jday305 -> RE: About the Fighting (4/26/2013 2:23:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

The maps do show elevation in the different shades of green in the hex. Again it tend to be clearer on a full up monitor. There is also a map function to show elevation level, visual hindrance, and mobility of the hexes on the map and the current hex information is displayed on a status bar on the interface.



Cool!



Mad Russian -> RE: About the Fighting (4/26/2013 2:35:19 PM)

I'm moving the map discussion out of this thread to it's own.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3314177

Good Hunting.

MR



wodin -> RE: About the Fighting (4/26/2013 4:59:09 PM)

You can see the elevations in the screenshots..maybe those with colour problems can't? However I noticed them straight away.



Mad Russian -> RE: About the Fighting (4/26/2013 10:01:26 PM)

This game, much more than FPG, shows the differences in the way the nations military's fight. There are tremendous differences in the capabilities between the combatants. The differences are at times subtle and other times they are very striking.

As one instance only, the differences between the IFV's. The BMP1 and BMP2 vs the Bradley, Warrior and Marder. All five of them are IFV's but you will have to use each of them differently. Play to their strengths and be very aware of their weaknesses.

The combat systems covered in the game are infantry, ATGM, Direct Fire Gun (tank vs tank and tank vs everything else), Direct Fire Missile, Fire and Forget Weapons, Towed and SP Artillery, Helicopter, Fixed Wing CAS, AAA, SAM, Chemical and Nuclear.

When I came on the team they gave me everything I asked for except a detailed Combat Engineer model. I was told that this is not a Combat Engineer simulator. Okay, I can live with that. You won't get it if you don't ask for it right? What we did get is one of the most amazingly easy to play games I've seen in a long time. The game is not heavy on details. You tell your men where to go to fight and they try to do what you tell them. The details are all in the game. They are mostly under the hood where you don't have to deal with all the mountains of data that goes into modern (WWII to present) combat situations. Rob and the Capn have hidden all that away. You can get it if you want it but it is not required to play the game. It's simply available for immersion if that's what you like.

Good Hunting.

MR



Mad Russian -> RE: About the Fighting (4/27/2013 2:26:02 AM)

Here we see the opening round of the war. As the Soviets advance across the border the 11th ACR struggles to come to it's alert positions.

Everyone thought there would be plenty of time to respond. Everyone thought wrong. The Soviets have played their biggest card first, leading with their best assault divisions directly from their march columns, they cross the border. Soviet units catch US units out of position and make them fight for their very lives; starting with the first moments of the war. Jamming of NATO radio sets combined with chemical warhead strikes on NATO logistical centers and hard strip airfields have NATO reeling under the weight of the attack.

It will now fall to the men on the ground to bear the brunt of the fighting. Anyone who ever thought it would be different this time couldn't have been more wrong.

Can the 11th ACR blunt the thrust through Bad Neustadt and into Fulda? It shouldn't take long to find out.

Good Hunting.

MR

[image]local://upfiles/28652/C9EA47697E534012A2F68699D74518F7.jpg[/image]



Mad Russian -> RE: About the Fighting (4/27/2013 3:49:59 AM)

I will give an example of the AI in combat.

1. The AI attempts to take control of the 300 point Victory Location (VL) in the north center of the map. The string of red crosses show the attrition battle that took place as it advanced.

2. When thrust 1 was stopped the AI split it's forces in two and advanced on the two river bridges in the center of the map. It crossed both bridges and then moved southwest down the river capturing all the VL's all the way to the 300 point VL on the west central part of the map. There was an armored battle the going the entire time the Soviet advance was moving forward.

3. The Soviets having taken the 300 point VL along the river now turns north to attack the 300 point VL at Wollbach that it didn't get with it's first thrust in #1. The advance is contested the entire way up the map to the VL. No matter the Soviet gets the VL.

At this point I have lost the battle. There is roughly 2 hours of game time left. So, what better to do than to counter attack.

Good Hunting.

MR

[image]local://upfiles/28652/2DFE147F1DEB4978BE360998E56839C1.jpg[/image]



Mad Russian -> RE: About the Fighting (4/27/2013 3:54:15 AM)

During my counter attack I recapture the Wollbach VL with infantry in Bradley's, as I have very few tanks left.

I move to the bridge location that I lost a #1, retake it and start to move down the river.

I thrust a single tank platoon straight down through the town to try to take the VL in the middle of town by coup de main.

One infantry platoon is moved far to the left and then down to take the 300 point VL in the center Western location.

The rest move down the river to try to recapture as many VL's as possible.

Good Hunting.

MR

[image]local://upfiles/28652/1878579C6259476AA8BA1841E4F87546.jpg[/image]



Mad Russian -> RE: About the Fighting (4/27/2013 3:55:32 AM)

Final result was a tactical victory for NATO.

Good Hunting.

MR

[image]local://upfiles/28652/BA0E5FEC82B74366AA2751C3F838AF62.jpg[/image]



wodin -> RE: About the Fighting (4/27/2013 10:29:22 AM)

Sounds great..was it a tough fight? I'd have thought the first attacks by the Russian should be real real difficult to stop and it would be a case of having to hold them up for set amount of turns then exit a certain amount of your forces.

Still like the way the AI decided to try something different once it got held up in the first thrust. Is the AI scripted..will it attack that way very time you play the scenario?

What does the 1 and 2 mean above the bridge and Allied Tank unit?



jday305 -> RE: About the Fighting (4/27/2013 12:27:03 PM)

Looks awesome, MR! I like the crosses that represent causalties. A good way to represent burned out/destroyed vehicles.



Mad Russian -> RE: About the Fighting (4/27/2013 1:36:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Sounds great..was it a tough fight? I'd have thought the first attacks by the Russian should be real real difficult to stop and it would be a case of having to hold them up for set amount of turns then exit a certain amount of your forces.


It was a very tough fight. I didn't expect the AI to make thrust # 1 at all. I'd made some changes to the scenario and it had never gone that way before. I had always blown the bridge with time to spare that thrust #1 took, not this time. I had totally lost the scenario and was expecting to have to replay the battle to see if I could do better. I NEVER release a scenario that I personally haven't beaten.

When I saw that I still had 2 hours left and that I kept getting reinforced I thought I might be able to get at least a couple of the VL's back. It turned out I did better than that because the Soviets had taken such high losses in our initial battles that they couldn't hold what they had taken.

quote:


Still like the way the AI decided to try something different once it got held up in the first thrust. Is the AI scripted..will it attack that way very time you play the scenario?


The AI is semi-scripted...kind of.

The AI runs through some calculations to see what the status of the VL's are. If they are owned, either by the AI or you, if they are defended, etc. Once that calculation is complete it goes it's merry way about taking what it considers to be it's best choices.

Rarely will the AI respond exactly the same way twice. Which makes balancing a scenario a bit difficult at times but it guarantees vastly different playing experiences that are possible within the same scenario for different play throughs. However, the VL's are in the same locations each time you play and there are only so many different ways to get to them, so some gameplay will obviously be repetitive.

Rob is a genius when it comes to making the AI do it's part. [&o]


quote:


What does the 1 and 2 mean above the bridge and Allied Tank unit?


Those are way point set locations. I have that unit ordered to move down those waypoints in that order. You can assign 3 waypoints to each unit. They can also be edited at any time after you assign them.

Good Hunting.

MR


[image]local://upfiles/28652/A9292430AFE54CD3BD4AA53EE99E6B93.jpg[/image]



BeirutDude -> RE: About the Fighting (4/27/2013 1:55:44 PM)

Curious about scale, I'm assuming 250 to 500m hexes? 5 minute turns?

I saw the comment that it isn't an Engineering game, but what about engineer support of river crossings? Seems like at some point the programers would want to add at least limited engineering functions. remember the old Assault Series of games? They started out with just combat and added engineering (along with airmobile/assault and second echlon forces) as time went on. Personally I'm willing to spend the money to add capabilites if the game system is solid, but that is me. If you're going to produce longer duration scenarios engineers become key, but of somewhat lesser importance in shorter sceanrios. The Battle of Chinese Farm is a great example of one that hinged on engineering efforts, not to mention the initial Syrian assault on the Golan. You could break these battles up into segments/scenarios with engineering functions accomplished, for Chinese Farm maybe 3 or 4 scenarios depicting various stages of the battle.



CapnDarwin -> RE: About the Fighting (4/27/2013 2:02:30 PM)

@ Beachinnole - 500m per hex and the turns are variable based on the current state of the command network. Could be 10 minutes could be 60 depending on many factors.

The engineering functions are in the game. You can blow and build bridges, clear mines and obstacles, but the actual units are abstracted away (for now-we do plan on them being added in and expanded on in future updates of the game engine, if not MR will be a tad bit miffed at us).



BeirutDude -> RE: About the Fighting (4/27/2013 2:07:59 PM)

Great! Thank you. Very excited by what I've seen so far! [:)]



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