RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame (Full Version)

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ernieschwitz -> RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame (7/4/2013 7:33:33 PM)

Damn, double post...

Edited

If i might come with a quote though it would be this:

"He who defends everything defends nothing." - Frederick II

Meaning, somewhere i am weak. If not I couldn´t be strong elsewhere.




ernieschwitz -> RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame (7/4/2013 7:34:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.


quote:

ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz

Nothing Personal, Jeffrey H, But I would like to see some numbers to back up the claims of airwar being lost and sea war ditto. If I was to write anything NON-AAR about it, I would say that things are about equal. At least I don´t see the Air War as being lost... nor the Sea War.


Switch sides with me ?

Switch sides, perhaps not, but a rematch where i play the British/French definately :) If you are right, I am going to win the game anyway, and soon... If you are wrong however, we got a long way to go...





ernieschwitz -> RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame (7/5/2013 12:02:46 AM)

Air War stats:

Allies (all included)
Losses:
166 Fighters (83 of which are fighter Is)

Axis (Germany)
Losses:
67 Fighters (3 of which are Fighter Is, 22 BF 109Es)

On the surface, looks like the allies are taking a beating, but, if you analyze the numbers alittle, things look very equal. First of all, lets remove all the fighter Is from the equation, as they are mostly cannon fodder anyway. And most of them belong to the lesser regimes that got taken over by the allies, when the Germans invaded those countries.

Allies:
83 in total (52 of these are Hurricanes)

Axis:
64 in total (22 of which are BF109Es)

The 109Es are basically a Fighter III. So they should be able to fight off the less expensive Hurricanes. (that are a fighter II)

Production wise, the 109Es cost 1100 Production points each, while the Hurricane costs 800. So those 22 Bf109Es should count for around 30 Hurricanes. Suddenly the airwar seems alot closer.

And this doesn´t even take into account the number of D.520s that got overrun on the landingfields in france.




ernieschwitz -> RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame (7/7/2013 7:56:56 PM)

October 1939, Germany.

From Königsberg in the north, to Constanta in the south, German guns, tanks and infantry formations set into motion. The grand scale operation barbarossa has begun. Klaipeda, Lvov and Bialystock have all fallen, and German troops are moving forwards at a fast pace.

Will this be yet another lightning war? Or will this be an epic grudge match between two worthy opponents?

Germany declares war against the new ally of Britain and France, the United States. This is truely now a world war. (Oh yeah, and China is at war with Germany too... just FYI).






lion_of_judah -> RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame (7/7/2013 10:55:19 PM)

.....NEWS FLASH......

DAVAO in the Philippines has fallen to Imperial Japanese forces. Once the Philippine campaign has finished, we shall finish the U.S. in the pacific once and for all.

Southern Chinese front- not much happened this turn, with the occasional arty barrage.
Northern Chinese front- attempting to stop the Chinese flanking move, but not too worried about this.





lion_of_judah -> RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame (7/7/2013 10:56:13 PM)

such a pretty site coming from DAVAO......

[image]local://upfiles/23616/2DC5A51B131D4719A1D182E8A02DB535.jpg[/image]




Bombur -> RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame (7/8/2013 12:10:31 AM)

Washington October 1939

-Pres. Roosevelt: It seems we have some good news in the diplomatic Front, right?
-Sec. Hull: Well, finally France and Great Britain opened their eyes and reached the logical conclusin that they cannot in without us....
-Pres. Roosevelt: What about Lend Lease?
-Sec. Hull: Lots of tanks and aircraft are underway to our allies. Some AA guns too....
-Pres. Roosevelt: How did you obtained this alliance with them? Their diplomats simply refused to give us an audience...
-Sec Hull: Well, I posted an offer in the matrix games forum, an offer they couldn´t refuse.....[:D]
-Pres. Roosevelt:Hmmmmmm....and it seems the USSR was attacked to....
-Sec Hull: Yes, I hope Hitler finally biten more than he can chew....he will be some troubles, being at war against UK, USSR and us...
-Pres. Roosevelt: Unless they win fast. I´m somewhat worried with the state of Soviet defenses....their airforce seems to be particularly ill equipped.
-Sec. Hull: We could send them some of our new P-40B´s....
-Pres. Roosevelt: It would deplete our forces in the Pacific. I hope we will have good news from the Pacific soon, our people grows inpatient with the lack of victories....




Jeffrey H. -> RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame (7/8/2013 12:21:45 AM)

What is missing from this analysis is the rate of losses and the loss rate vs. production rate.

When you begin loosing significantly more than you produce, you can no longer expect to continue operations in the same way, in a sense it's lost once the balance shifts, it can only get worse because morale shifts to your opponent and your units erode in size.

So, a change in tactics or usage is the only way to keep any sort of force intact. It's a loss, get over it and move on, otherwise you won't have anything left at all. It's not a game ending loss, but at least it's a temporary setback and a significant one, otherwise there would be no reason to fight over it.

The variability in the combat model can make for some pretty surprising results, which is a form of gambling. I don't like relying solely on a good die role for a chance for victory.

I have to admit that the sub war was lost out of boredom and frustration and not so much out of combat, however even there, strategically speaking, I was losing big time. I was unable to nullify the sub production, even with some good intelligence from my new ally, and could not maintain a strong enough night bomber force. The only way to decisively defeat a sub pack in the open sea is to completely surround it, on all hex sides and hammer away for at least 2 and often more turns. With 4 or 5 separate sub groups operating that needed to be dealt with it was simply impossible, in the end, I have better and more entertaining uses for the ships and my time.





ernieschwitz -> RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame (7/8/2013 1:11:00 AM)

Obviously i cannot take into account your production rate, as I simply do not know it. BUT i do know that you have found the resources to build at least 1 aircraft factory, and 1 tank factory. Increasing that production capacity somewhat. I on the other hand have had no such luck... or time, or whatever we migth boil that down to...

I can tell you that the loss rate of the axis fighters was at one point so large that i produced 25 BF-109Es pr. turn, just to make sure i had enough reserves and the ability to counter your air attacks. As for night bombing. I still think you made a mistake not continueing them on Kiel despite the losses. It gave me time to reproduce my sub fleet, after the horrendous channel losses i had, due to the fact that i didn´t want you to make shore bombardments on my troops there... 10 subs were lost, due to this. At the time my reproduction rate of subs was about 4 each turn... At one point i Seriously thought i was going to lose that sea war.

Now I see that the British are focusing on the Italians, which I think is a smart tactic. It was the same tactic that was used in ww2, and I venture that we will see similar results. There has in this turn been a significant naval battle in the theatre, where potentially an aircraftcarrier could have been sunk... that however did not happen. Italy to win, always has to capture Malta, which hasn´t been done (yet). And most likely will not happen while the allies control the seas in the mediterranian... In many ways Italy is losing the war, if you ask me.

I think you made some fundamental mistakes in the way you conducted the sea war. I would have done it much differently. I would have done it more along the lines of what RufusTfirefly did it last time i played him. His tactics were very effective against the uboats. Combining those with the relentless bombings of Kiel that you had done, i think you would do fine. WHat his approach was, i won´t let you in on, cause it is not too late to implement.

As for random ... I lost 3 BF109Es over Russia, he lost 4 aircraft, 2 of which were fighter Is... I´d say he is getting some luck there... So much for Invici planes. I think you almost had me believing your propaganda about how invincible the German army and other services were.... we´ll see...

If your offer of trading positions still stands in 2 turns, i might just take it :)





Jeffrey H. -> RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame (7/10/2013 7:57:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz

Obviously i cannot take into account your production rate, as I simply do not know it. BUT i do know that you have found the resources to build at least 1 aircraft factory, and 1 tank factory. Increasing that production capacity somewhat. I on the other hand have had no such luck... or time, or whatever we migth boil that down to...

I can tell you that the loss rate of the axis fighters was at one point so large that i produced 25 BF-109Es pr. turn, just to make sure i had enough reserves and the ability to counter your air attacks. As for night bombing. I still think you made a mistake not continueing them on Kiel despite the losses. It gave me time to reproduce my sub fleet, after the horrendous channel losses i had, due to the fact that i didn´t want you to make shore bombardments on my troops there... 10 subs were lost, due to this. At the time my reproduction rate of subs was about 4 each turn... At one point i Seriously thought i was going to lose that sea war.

Now I see that the British are focusing on the Italians, which I think is a smart tactic. It was the same tactic that was used in ww2, and I venture that we will see similar results. There has in this turn been a significant naval battle in the theatre, where potentially an aircraftcarrier could have been sunk... that however did not happen. Italy to win, always has to capture Malta, which hasn´t been done (yet). And most likely will not happen while the allies control the seas in the mediterranian... In many ways Italy is losing the war, if you ask me.

I think you made some fundamental mistakes in the way you conducted the sea war. I would have done it much differently. I would have done it more along the lines of what RufusTfirefly did it last time i played him. His tactics were very effective against the uboats. Combining those with the relentless bombings of Kiel that you had done, i think you would do fine. WHat his approach was, i won´t let you in on, cause it is not too late to implement.

As for random ... I lost 3 BF109Es over Russia, he lost 4 aircraft, 2 of which were fighter Is... I´d say he is getting some luck there... So much for Invici planes. I think you almost had me believing your propaganda about how invincible the German army and other services were.... we´ll see...

If your offer of trading positions still stands in 2 turns, i might just take it :)





Sorry, the offer is withdrawn. I would have attacked England and not Russia.




ernieschwitz -> RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame (7/10/2013 8:36:53 PM)

Only one of the five sets of victory conditions require me to take England. (un)fortunately I had not chosen that one. It btw would require me to take the eastern coast of USA as well... Something I think we can agree to is very hard for a nation like Germany.

I am a firm believer that it is very hard for Germany to take England btw. First of all you need a navy to beat down the British Navy... something that could be done i guess, but not without making more shipwarfs. The shipbuilding capacity of Britain in my oppinion is too small to make an invasion fleet and clear the waters of the pesky Royal Navy. Then there is the problem of having air superiority there, if you actually are able to build the fleet necessary. German Fighters have a range of just 4 hexes, and that means you have an intercept range of 2. Making southern England really the only option area for invasion. Unless you want to make carriers that is... but that is whole lot of PP more you need to invest than I think is worth it.

No I chose something other than having to try and invade Great Britain and the US, and perhaps I will succeed, perhaps not. In any case, the German set of victory conditions is far from easy to achieve.




Bombur -> RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame (7/11/2013 5:36:42 AM)

Meanwhile, in Washington

Pres. Roosevelt: I have the strange feeling we´re being spied...
Sec. Hull: You´re paranoid, all Japanese sympathizers in America were sent to resorts in the Caribbean islands. They will spend the next 2 years on vacations.
Pres. Roosevelt: Well, let us review the good news...it seems we took Tarawa from Japan, that´s good, how many divisions did we destroyed?
Sec. Hull: Actually we destroyed nothing, the island was ungarrisoned
Pres. Roosevelt: I´m not sure if our people will consider it a victory, but at least we´re closer to release the Phillipines.
Sec. Hull: Well the operation is a success, but we could still have other developments, some Patrol aircraft on ASW patrol near Wake had a very nasty encounter...
Pres. Roosevelt: What did happen?
Sec Hull: Well, none of the 20 aircraft returned, but one of the crews radioed to Wake about a big carrier fleet and then he asked for help as he was being attacked by enemy aicraft, then the transmission ceased....
Pres. Roosevelt: So we have a carrier fleet near our invasion force....what do you think, Admiral King.
Admiral King: Well...size and composition of the force are unknown, but we fear for the safety of our carriers. None of them had their Buffaloes replaced by F4F´s, and there are rumors that the Japanese developed a long range carrier fighter, extremely maneuverable and as fast as the D-520
Pres. Roosevelt: How could such an underdeveloped nation create this wonder? The intel is getting paranoid...
Admiral King: It´s true the Navy type 0 fighter was never seen in combat, but we have some disturbing photos from our spies in Tokyo....I would strongly suggest to avoid combat with Japanese carriers until we get the new F4F´s.

Stay tuned to next round...will the Japanese carriers attack the American invasion force? Will the new A6M2´s prevail over the F2A´s? Will the Japanese carrier force run away?




ernieschwitz -> RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame (7/11/2013 10:06:21 PM)

"Rubbish! It´s all Rubbish, just like i said"

The statement came from the Führer, and he was talking about the Russian Equipment that had been captured so far.

"I don´t see it quite that way, mein Führer..." said Halder "... the weaponry we´ve seen in the hands of the Russian soldier is comparable to ours."

"Then how do you explain these" The Führer said as he tossed a handful of Photos of a soviet planes, taken from the Russians as an airbase had been overrun. "These are biplanes, and 'Ratas´. We met them in Spain, during the Civil War, which we won btw." The Führer began.

"The I-16, is a dangerous plane, when used rightly. We have even had reports of some Soviet pilots using them as Airial rams." Halder pointed out.

"Rubbish!" The Führer exclaimed once again. "That plane is so bad, and fat as Winston Churchill" Everyone around the strategic planning table laughed.

"The I-16, the ´Rata´, is not the only plane we´ve encountered so far" Halder began explaining. "We´ve also engaged a number of very modern planes... the Yak-1."

"Inconsequential!" said the Führer "They don´t have many of them, and those they had we will shoot down easily, in fact we have downed half of those we have seen so far"

"That may be so" Halder began "but I also must report we have still to meet any of the Soviet Armor. And despite that we have lost quite a few of our own panzers"

"Yes, Yes... " The Führer waved his hand around like he was trying to chase away a fly "we have lost some Pz I & IIs. So what. They are obsolete compared to what we have been producing"

Halder grimmaced, and then he hit home with his argument. "Nothing we are building compared to what our recon planes took pictures of recently." He then tossed a single photo onto the table.

The Führer studied it, quite impressed. "What´s this?" he said...

"We are not entirely sure. Some of the prisoners we have caught refer to it as the KV-1." Halder explained.

"It looks massive!" The Führer said.

"Yes, quite" said Halder, "we were warned by Abwehr that tanks like these might exist. They seem to have picked up some intelligence on the subject, before we went to war with Russia..."

The Führer interrupted Halder, and said "Why was I not informed!"

"You were...." Halder said. "In any case it is a bit late for that"

"We are at war with the Soviets now, so one way or the other we have to find out how to combat this monster!" Halder continued.

"In the meantime, we have recieved word that Kaunas has been taken. That means that Lithuania is now under our control. Should we inform the masses of this?" Halder questioned.

"Yes, inform Reich News, they ought to make this a big headline" The Führer said.

"And report nothing of this so called superweapon, that the Soviets have" The Führer said. "We don´t want to give anybody the impression that we can be beat, at all!"




ernieschwitz -> RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame (7/11/2013 10:12:09 PM)

Elsewhere The Duce was receiving a report that made his stomach churn.

An Italian reconnasiance patrol had spotted what appeared to be many Matilda IIs in the desert heading for Libya. Half of Libya had already fallen. In Abyssinia, Matilda IIs had also been spotted.

Quickly the Duce called for his aide, and asked that a telegram to Berlin be sent. Maybe the situation could be saved yet. Perhaps some sort of Armored Corps of Germans could arrive in Africa, and send these British running. The Duce knew he had little in the way of modern tanks...

He wondered what the price would be. Being the butt of the Führers jokes was not something he enjoyed.

There was some positive news though. Finally Italy had achieved 100% production. This should help alot in the coming months of war.




Jeffrey H. -> RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame (7/12/2013 1:39:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz

Air War stats:

Allies (all included)
Losses:
166 Fighters (83 of which are fighter Is)

Axis (Germany)
Losses:
67 Fighters (3 of which are Fighter Is, 22 BF 109Es)

On the surface, looks like the allies are taking a beating, but, if you analyze the numbers alittle, things look very equal. First of all, lets remove all the fighter Is from the equation, as they are mostly cannon fodder anyway. And most of them belong to the lesser regimes that got taken over by the allies, when the Germans invaded those countries.

Allies:
83 in total (52 of these are Hurricanes)

Axis:
64 in total (22 of which are BF109Es)

The 109Es are basically a Fighter III. So they should be able to fight off the less expensive Hurricanes. (that are a fighter II)

Production wise, the 109Es cost 1100 Production points each, while the Hurricane costs 800. So those 22 Bf109Es should count for around 30 Hurricanes. Suddenly the airwar seems alot closer.

And this doesn´t even take into account the number of D.520s that got overrun on the landingfields in france.



Despite the obfuscatory numbers that Herr Goebbleschwitz posted here, I have a crisp and unmodified combat report from my latest raid on Kiel:



[image]local://upfiles/24678/D1FA34AD83BE447AABC67EA4B52DDE5F.jpg[/image]




Jeffrey H. -> RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame (7/12/2013 1:40:43 AM)

In a word, "losing". Lost, actually and proves my earlier point.




ernieschwitz -> RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame (7/12/2013 1:46:52 AM)

What that screenshot shows is just this. 12 Night Fighter Is and 2 Heavy Flak, intercepting some night bomber IIs, escorted by 4 night fighter Is.

Not a strange result. Also those Night Bomber IIs (whitleys) have been around for ages now. I would expect them to be quite antiquated by now...




Bombur -> RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame (7/12/2013 2:22:30 AM)

Early night fighters shouldn´t be used as escorts....they have worse combat rates when performing offensive missions....




lion_of_judah -> RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame (7/12/2013 5:55:52 PM)

.......NEWS FLASH........

Imperial Japanese GHQ states battles on Southern Front has seen a small breakthrough in the north. Naval battles saw our glorious naval forces send several U.S. subs too the bottom. Marine level 2 are now being trained and will provide defense for all Island bases. This is a direct result of the loss of one of our Islands to U.S. forces. U.S. forces are still holding out in the Philippines.

JAF has destroyed several Chinese/U.S. fighters in air battles over China. Our new fighters have now had a taste of battle and her pilots are itching for more.....




Jeffrey H. -> RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame (7/12/2013 8:52:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bombur

Early night fighters shouldn´t be used as escorts....they have worse combat rates when performing offensive missions....



They did ok, relatively speaking. There's no point in keeping them around so I'm just going to thow them into the blender until there's none left, which as you can see, won't be long.

Britians capacity is strained by the supply needs of the navy, not leaving much for PP's and "discretionary" production. Many places make PP's because they simply can't move the prodcuts into the theaters where they need to be used. Aircraft are a good example. They ususally don't have the range to go from say Canada or Austrailia to anywhere else. It's too bad the game will not allow strat transfer of aircraft via ships.





Jeffrey H. -> RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame (7/12/2013 9:03:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bombur

Early night fighters shouldn´t be used as escorts....they have worse combat rates when performing offensive missions....


Question on the tech tree, where do I find the Mosquito ?





ernieschwitz -> RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame (7/12/2013 9:13:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bombur

Early night fighters shouldn´t be used as escorts....they have worse combat rates when performing offensive missions....

Question on the tech tree, where do I find the Mosquito ?


Not sure its a seperate SFT, I know the Sea Mosquito is, but not sure about the Mosquito. In any case Bombur should know.... I´ll wait for him to answer. :)

BTW: We (I) am working on a website that will cover the special units for each nation. And what researches are required for each of them.




ernieschwitz -> RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame (7/12/2013 9:28:49 PM)

After trolling through the descriptions of each SFT, i found the Mosquito is modelled by the Light Bomber III. So that is where you would find it.




Twotribes -> RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame (7/12/2013 9:45:51 PM)

If one has cargo ships in a headquarter they can ship aircraft across the ocean.




Jeffrey H. -> RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame (7/13/2013 3:13:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz

After trolling through the descriptions of each SFT, i found the Mosquito is modelled by the Light Bomber III. So that is where you would find it.


Thanks Ernie. I've found the English light bombers to be very effective.




Jeffrey H. -> RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame (7/18/2013 8:32:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

If one has cargo ships in a headquarter they can ship aircraft across the ocean.


I didn't think of that but yes, it did work. I put an airgroup SFT into an HQ and strat x-fered them across the sea. Thanks !




Twotribes -> RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame (7/19/2013 4:08:40 AM)

I am waiting impatiently for my fix on this thread. Hurry up you guys.




ernieschwitz -> RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame (7/19/2013 6:12:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes
I am waiting impatiently for my fix on this thread. Hurry up you guys.


Afraid you might got to wait until the 22nd. Bombur is away at present, and it his is turn.





Twotribes -> RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame (7/20/2013 4:19:11 AM)

Piss Poor Prior Planning. You all have made me interested now it is your DUTY to keep me entertained.




Jeffrey H. -> RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame (7/23/2013 1:30:03 AM)

Well, here we are late on the 22nd, hopefully Bombur gets back on the horse quickly.




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