Upgraded Base Designs (Full Version)

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DMan777 -> Upgraded Base Designs (2/10/2012 2:21:30 PM)

After watching Das's newest series, I decided to follow his advice of upgrading mining bases to have weapons. Never having played with the designer much, I gave it a go. Wow, what a difference. Pirates were so much less of a concern I felt I could breathe a bit.

However, with each revision of the bases (GMB2,3,4), my AI defaults back to a design without weapons. Then proceeds to auto-build defenseless mining bases. Is there any way for it to use my armed base as a template for the subsequent base designs? Keeping track of this is kind of a pain when mining bases are auto-built by my AI.

Thanks,

D-




Canute0 -> RE: Upgraded Base Designs (2/10/2012 2:39:52 PM)

No.
The default AI mining design don't include weapons, and when you keep the Ship design on automatic they switch back to that design.
You need to upgrade your designs from time to time to keep them uptodate. Or try to use fighters as weapons they get replaced when you reaseach better ones.





Theluin -> RE: Upgraded Base Designs (2/10/2012 2:40:21 PM)

With the latest beta you can turn off auto design for each blueprint separately. So you can tell the AI to design everything except your mining stations.




Morelyn -> RE: Upgraded Base Designs (2/10/2012 2:40:44 PM)

No, so far as I know there is no way to get the AI to use your design template in subsequent design upgrades. And if you think about it, it would be virtually impossible to code, wouldn't it? How is the AI supposed to know what it was you considered critical in your design? It might be guns in a mining base, but reactors in an exploration ship...it can't know what you wanted.

The only thing you can do is to set your mining station design to manual and then upgrade it periodically yourself. It's not as though a mining station template really needs to be upgraded that often.




feelotraveller -> RE: Upgraded Base Designs (2/10/2012 3:41:24 PM)

Actually it should be easy to code. All it needs is a flag (=checkbox in UI) to mark component as 'critical'.

Very much looking forward to user specified basic designs, for all races, in a near future patch... [:)]





Morelyn -> RE: Upgraded Base Designs (2/10/2012 4:30:47 PM)

I agree that user specified basic designs would be nice. Is this something you've heard the designers promise or is it simply your hope?

If the former, mea culpa. If the latter, I still maintain it's a bit trickier than it might at first seem.

Let's say you get your checkbox (which, btw, would IMO further clutter up an already cluttered design screen). You add your Maxos blasters and check them as critical. You subsequently research Shatterforce Lasers, Impact Assault Blasters, missle weapons, torpedos, etc., etc. Would you be satisfied if your prototype just gets non-weapons updated and continues to rely on (outdated) Maxos Blasters? If not, how is the AI to choose which weapon you want next?




feelotraveller -> RE: Upgraded Base Designs (2/10/2012 4:43:27 PM)

Here is what Erik had to say (in the Update thread) just before the release of 1.7.0.10

quote:

There will be a few additional changes and fixes for tomorrow's release, but here's what we have so far. Please note that the support for external designs is still in the works and planned for the next public beta, but the other design improvements are in this one.


So I assume this means that we will be able to include our own designs, for ourselves and the other races.

I'm not sure how it is coded at the moment to allow updateable designs, but there is obviously already some specification to tell the computer which components it should include automatically (for you and the computer players) which vary, at least slightly, by race. Now there is no guarantee that there will be a checkbox on the UI (I just make this an example), or that we will be able to specify the designs from the design details screen (as opposed to say, again for example, by editing a textfile in the customisation folder).

My point was simpler than all this - all that needs to be specified at the code level is type of component with a yes/no, or true/false, or 0/1 option to say that it is basic to design and should always be included in updates.




Lorini -> RE: Upgraded Base Designs (2/10/2012 5:33:36 PM)

I don't understand why mining bases don't have weapons in the first place. If you give them weapons, then you don't need to have as many escorts et al patrolling them because they can defend themselves against pirates anyway. To me, that's the change that needs to be made, just put weapons on bases in the game.




Theluin -> RE: Upgraded Base Designs (2/11/2012 7:16:20 AM)

I meant that you can tell the AI not to design just mining bases and just click upgrade automatically when new tech becomes available. 




jpwrunyan -> RE: Upgraded Base Designs (2/13/2012 7:56:57 AM)

I want to push back and say that putting weapons on mines is stoopid. Its a huge waste of money to gun-up every podunk mine in your empire and besides, those maxos blasters and standard shields wont cut it long-term. If weaponizing all your mines doesnt bankrupt your private sector then the game is too easy. There is definitely an argument to be made along those lines (see other thread). Weaponizing remote bases that are actually valuable and vulnerable is also worth while at times, tho I simply tend to assign an escort because I can both retrofit it and also make it do other stuff once those pesky pirates are gone. But as a general rule weaponized mines is wasteful policy. Do you really need guns on mines in your home system where your main fleet hangs out? No. But by the way some people talk it sounds like this is what is happening. In which case refer to first sentence.




Canute0 -> RE: Upgraded Base Designs (2/13/2012 1:56:08 PM)

Thats why fighters are my main weapons mosttimes, and a Mining base got a fighter bay and a few extra shields after i researched the Fighters.





Lorini -> RE: Upgraded Base Designs (2/13/2012 5:31:52 PM)

I don't like having to babysit my mining stations, not to mention the fact that escorts don't do much against a determined pirate attack. And as many people have stated, money is not much of an issue in this game anyway. At least putting weapons on the mining stations sucks up money and makes the economic part of the game more interesting.




onomastikon -> RE: Upgraded Base Designs (2/14/2012 12:10:26 PM)

While you do not need guns on every mining platform, it is almost functionally impossible to have many different active forms of base and decide which to build where. And since you cannot downgrade platforms unless they are built at colonies, you cannot downgrade your bases once circumstances dictate (e.g. you needed weapons on mine X at time T, but at time T2 there are no more threats to that base and now a different design would fit -- too bad). Therefore, prudence dictates to me, much too often, to include weapons in all platforms

quote:

ORIGINAL: jpwrunyan
If weaponizing all your mines doesnt bankrupt your private sector then the game is too easy.


Weaponizing platforms does not bankrupt my private sector. In fact, nothing ever seems to do that.




Bingeling -> RE: Upgraded Base Designs (2/14/2012 2:14:11 PM)

I have not played since legends was new, but with the latest patch, motivation is building. Partly because there seems to be options to keep the AI off certain designs, and also because I feel like taking full control of my constructors to get a better feel for how many mines are actually needed.

I don't mind babysitting mines until late in the game, and if I control my own mine building, I can try to control where my mines are. For instance entering mine location into the selection of which location to build on.

And if I do that, I can choose to build either a mine with weapons, or cheap star base, at locations that are annoying to defend but needed. And I can also have some custom fuel sources at key locations, that are basically stationary, weaker, resupply ships.

Once tech has advanced past the very start, it does not seem hard to defend mines if a small fleet is parked within one sector distance. And if you control designs somewhat, you can make sure sector defense fleets have fast jump hyperdrives.




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