Patch thoughts (Full Version)

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alcamatraz -> Patch thoughts (11/25/2011 7:47:03 AM)

I love it so far.

I found some time last night and played the St. Vith tutorial.

Only got a draw, and this was looking doubtful for a while.

good job!




BigDuke66 -> RE: Patch thoughts (11/25/2011 8:24:43 AM)

So far I only get the feeling I'm doing something(everything) wrong.
Played Höfen and only got a draw where I had a victory early this year when I bought the game, and I don't see that the AI is better it just looks like everything doesn't run as smooth as it did before and that makes me scratch me head.
How can it be that so much was fixed where I didn't feel that something was wrong but now with the patch I finally feel that something is wrong, either that or I have to re-learn how to play this game(and this with experience since Red Devils).




BletchleyGeek -> RE: Patch thoughts (11/25/2011 10:24:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66
So far I only get the feeling I'm doing something(everything) wrong.
Played Höfen and only got a draw where I had a victory early this year when I bought the game, and I don't see that the AI is better it just looks like everything doesn't run as smooth as it did before and that makes me scratch me head.
How can it be that so much was fixed where I didn't feel that something was wrong but now with the patch I finally feel that something is wrong, either that or I have to re-learn how to play this game(and this with experience since Red Devils).


What do you mean by "not running as smooth as before"? I've noticed some "slowdown" in the game execution - the UI not being as responsive as I remembered at times, for instance - and also in the pace of operations. But the latter doesn't look to me as something unintended.

I've been playing the "Nobody Comes Back" - one of my favorites because its focus on infantry and relatively speaking low complexity - scenario as the Axis, and now I see things really working (no HQ charges, etc.). If anything, it feels even more realistic. And the AI is doing a good job in the defense (it's playing a very reasonable for an AI flexible defense and it's pounding with arty my troop concentrations) [:)] Obviously, this is after very little time invested, I'll have a more informed opinion when I conduct large-scale attacks.




BletchleyGeek -> RE: Patch thoughts (11/25/2011 3:00:26 PM)

I think now I see what you meant BigDuke. In that "Nobody Comes Back" game I only conducted Battalion-level attacks, and Regiments were only assigned Move missions (to get into position to cross quickly). Something is wrong with Regiment and higher attacks.




BigDuke66 -> RE: Patch thoughts (11/25/2011 8:41:11 PM)

Yes that could be the problem, I didn't use battalion-level attacks because I wanted to see what the regiments do with their battalions also because in Höfen for example regiments are understrength because battalions are missing and so I do regiment-level attacks to maximize combat power.




Arjuna -> RE: Patch thoughts (11/25/2011 11:36:03 PM)

For these Bde level attacks is there more than one subordinate Bn HQs?

What I really need from you is a saved game taken before the attack, preferably immediately after giving the order. Then I can play through and try to assess what is going on. Just zip the save and upload here.




BletchleyGeek -> RE: Patch thoughts (11/26/2011 4:22:41 PM)

Sure, will do as soon as I can find the time :)

As bigduke says, the German regiments are understrength, and each one only features one infantry battalion. In my case, I attached to the Rgt HQ's artillery assets on my own discretion, as I find that the AI knows better than me how to time barrages (or call for support).

This might give you an idea of where to look: these lock-ups (single unit lockups) always happened on route to the FUP, and involved units not on the vanguard.

Thank you for the support, Arjuna, will try to help you best I can.




BletchleyGeek -> RE: Patch thoughts (11/26/2011 5:33:42 PM)

Hi,

here you have the save, taken at D1 06:00 of Hofen Ho-Down, with Realistic orders delay. One of the companies attached to 751 Rgt gets stuck, always at about the same time - 07:04 - and the same position:

[image]http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/8203/hodown3.png[/image]


The savegame is posted here.

Hope it helps,

BG.

PS: This is not that different from Phoenix's posted save, btw.




Arjuna -> RE: Patch thoughts (11/26/2011 10:37:29 PM)

Got it thanks.




hank -> RE: Patch thoughts (11/27/2011 10:50:12 PM)

I've been playing the beta 4.2.246 since early last week. I have one battle so far, "Patton's Favorite" that came out a bit different than indicated on the battle won/lost indicator.

.. no time now. work calls. suffice it to say .. the game displays did not match the results display.
I should have had a win according to the game display but got a draw with the end game judge.

.. more to follow.

later
hank




wodin -> RE: Patch thoughts (11/28/2011 8:21:57 AM)

^I had that issue pre patch....I thought it was some kind of Fog of War WAD.




Joe D. -> RE: Patch thoughts (11/29/2011 7:36:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

So far I only get the feeling I'm doing something(everything) wrong.
Played Höfen and only got a draw where I had a victory early this year when I bought the game ...


I installed the latest patch and played "advance to the sure" but only got a draw after taking almost all the objectives and incurring many enemy casualties on the Axis AI.

Also, I noticed that when selecting scenarios, the days of duration listed for each scenario is still about one day short than is actually the case.

How could they miss that again?




simovitch -> RE: Patch thoughts (11/29/2011 9:13:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

Also, I noticed that when selecting scenarios, the days of duration listed for each scenario is still about one day short than is actually the case.

How could they miss that again?

A scenario that starts on D1 0600 and ends on D2 0600 is one day long.

A scenario that starts on D1 1400 and ends on D7 1400 is 6 days long.




Joe D. -> RE: Patch thoughts (11/30/2011 1:51:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: simovitch


quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

Also, I noticed that when selecting scenarios, the days of duration listed for each scenario is still about one day short than is actually the case.

How could they miss that again?

A scenario that starts on D1 0600 and ends on D2 0600 is one day long.

A scenario that starts on D1 1400 and ends on D7 1400 is 6 days long.


OK, that answers what should have been obvious to me, but what about getting a "Draw" on the AAR w/a 3/4 rating on the Victory meter??




Arjuna -> RE: Patch thoughts (11/30/2011 9:48:02 PM)

The victory metre is just an estimate. No real life commander has an exact measure of they are winning or losing. For one they do nbot know exactly what the enemy's objectives are, nor what their losses are.




wodin -> RE: Patch thoughts (12/1/2011 2:07:55 AM)

^Thats what I thought at the time. In my game it turned out the AI had held\taken Obj's I didn't know about so it was a draw when i thought I'd won. I actually quite liked it that way as it adds the element of surprise as you never truely know.




Joe D. -> RE: Patch thoughts (12/1/2011 12:20:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

The victory metre is just an estimate. No real life commander has an exact measure of they are winning or losing. For one they do nbot know exactly what the enemy's objectives are, nor what their losses are.


Yes, but the player does; he has a list of completed objectives and an accurate AAR with enemy and friendly losses, all of which indicated I had at least a marginal victory.

All very odd.




Lieste -> RE: Patch thoughts (12/1/2011 4:41:18 PM)

The scenario win gauge is based on how complete your objective list is...

His scenario win conditions are based on his objective list - sometimes these match exactly, so achieving your objective prevents his... other times you are working in the same area but with different focusses and timings - denying the enemy his vital positions is as important as securing your own.

Sometimes enemy losses are given a high priority but your own are not significant, other operations will have friendly casualties highly valued, and terrain and enemy losses less certain.

The results (0-100) for each side are compared at scenario end, and the winner is determined based on the gap between them - so a perfect 'Friendly' performance will only secure a minor victory if the opponent held on long enough and caused sufficient casualties to do better than 50 - and the 'draw' window is fairly wide around the "equal performance" position.

I read the 'Victory meter' as describing my friendly performance, but have no explicit report of enemy intentions, objectives and performance - a force oriented posture seems to deal with keeping a lid on enemy mission accomplishments, as his forces are frequently found on or en-route to his important objectives - my own objectives are secured by my support units and second echelon elements, leaving the combat organisations free to orient on his forces.






wodin -> RE: Patch thoughts (12/2/2011 12:17:09 PM)

Joe D reread the posts above. Your gauge was saying how ell you where doing with your Obj's...but not how well the enemy where doing with theirs...thus if they have done well then it could cancel out your win.

Makes sense to me. What it says to me is that I should have done even better. Or I should have pushed on a little further as though a town may not be on my Obj list it may be on the enemies.

You need to see what the enemies Obj's where and then you will understnd why the result was the way it was at the end.




Joe D. -> RE: Patch thoughts (12/4/2011 7:58:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Joe D reread the posts above. Your gauge was saying how ell you where doing with your Obj's...but not how well the enemy where doing with theirs...thus if they have done well then it could cancel out your win ...


I will eventually play this scenario from the other side as well, but if I am still holding on to the majority of my listed objectives at the game's conclusion, I don't see how that success ends in a draw, esp. after the AAR shows that my AI opponent has experienced high losses as compared to my forces.

In hindsight, I should have saved the screenshot of the ARR results.




Blond_Knight -> RE: Patch thoughts (12/4/2011 9:00:54 PM)

Since you mentioned the win gauge, I wanted to mention that I miss the real-o-meter on the main menu.




Lieste -> RE: Patch thoughts (12/6/2011 9:52:18 PM)

The required proportion of victory locations / timings etc to obtain a 100 score is frequently lower than 100% - you sometimes have some leeway to trade objectives against each other and casualties. So does the enemy - where much of the map in contested, both sides may find that their points 'grab' is not significant, on the other hand, giving your opponent free hand in one area while you overwhelm another may result in both forces obtaining nearly full scores...

In either case a draw is likely, but you might perceive your progress better during the fighting in the second case.

As to casualties - it is quite possible than enemy casualties have little or no significance from a victory determination POV - the whole thrust might be dislocating a screen and driving past it with significant forces to prevent his superior forces blocking 'off-map' while opening and holding the MSR... At the same time your casualties might be very much more important - so that your forces are still "fresh" enough to defeat the larger fraction of the enemy force once met.

It might still benefit you to be aggressive with enemy casualties - but mostly for local operational reasons (ie to prevent effective counter-attacks once the exited units are 'gone'), but the losses themselves might have no bearing on the success at all.






simovitch -> RE: Patch thoughts (12/6/2011 11:09:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blond_Knight

Since you mentioned the win gauge, I wanted to mention that I miss the real-o-meter on the main menu.

funny[:D]
Reminds me that Dave spotted almost an exact replica of that thing in a Museum in Poteau (east of Vielsalm) when we toured the Ardennes a few years back. He got a picture of it...




Arjuna -> RE: Patch thoughts (12/7/2011 12:13:23 AM)

You mean this beauty? [:)]

[image]local://upfiles/8882/C41071A2A7454E1C9FE97E0C3D797085.jpg[/image]




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