can anyone explain this? (Full Version)

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borner -> can anyone explain this? (11/28/2010 10:43:41 PM)

Below is the after action report from my last turn........ my carriers were all in the same hex, and the fleets were 4 hexes apart. First, I do not understand why they keep plying bit by bit. Second, the ones that do get through strike minor units instead of the carriers. This is 3 times something like this has happened in this game, although the first two times were at nearly max range. It is Oct 42 and nearly 550 Vals and Kates been lost. All in strikes of the US fleet, and no US carriers knocked out. I am at a loss, but hopefully someone has seen this before and can explain.

Not to take anything away from my opponent, he has played very well. It is just something to this extent to me is quite strange.


thanks,


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 10/27/42

Weather: Clear

Air attack on TF at 20,50

Japanese aircraft
D3A Val x 36
B5N Kate x 9

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 157

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val x 34 destroyed
D3A Val x 3 damaged
B5N Kate x 10 destroyed


LTJG R. Hughes of VF-8 is credited with kill number 11


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 20,50

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 4
B5N Kate x 12

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 149

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 1 destroyed
B5N Kate x 13 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat x 1 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat x 3 damaged

LTJG R. Rosen of VF-8 is credited with kill number 7


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 20,50

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 16
D3A Val x 18
B5N Kate x 11

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 148

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 15 destroyed
D3A Val x 18 destroyed
B5N Kate x 13 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat x 11 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat x 6 damaged

LTJG M. Jennings of VF-8 is credited with kill number 7

LT C. Starkes of VF-8 is KILLED

Allied Ships
CV Saratoga


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 20,50

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 15
D3A Val x 18
B5N Kate x 23

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 95

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 9 destroyed
A6M2 Zero x 1 damaged
D3A Val x 16 destroyed
D3A Val x 4 damaged
B5N Kate x 27 destroyed
B5N Kate x 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat x 4 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat x 1 damaged

LTJG R. Rosen of VF-8 is credited with kill number 8

Allied Ships
CA Louisville, Bomb hits 2
CV Wasp
CLAA Atlanta


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 20,50

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 12
D3A Val x 18

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 135

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 3 destroyed
D3A Val x 20 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat x 8 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat x 4 damaged

LTJG J. Topliff of VF-8 is credited with kill number 8

LT J. Robbins of VF-3 bails out WOUNDED and is RESCUED

Allied Ships
CV Wasp


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 20,50

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 20
A6M3 Zero x 8
D3A Val x 18
B5N Kate x 22

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 128

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 6 destroyed
A6M3 Zero x 3 destroyed
D3A Val x 8 destroyed
D3A Val x 7 damaged
B5N Kate x 12 destroyed
B5N Kate x 15 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat x 8 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat x 3 damaged

LTJG M. Jennings of VF-8 is credited with kill number 8

LTJG M. Jennings of VF-8 bails out WOUNDED and is RESCUED

Allied Ships
DD Conyngham
CL Boise
DD McCalla
CL Helena, Bomb hits 1
DD Woodworth


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 20,50

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 6
A6M3 Zero x 14
D3A Val x 18
B5N Kate x 10

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 53

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 3 destroyed
A6M3 Zero x 4 destroyed
D3A Val x 7 destroyed
D3A Val x 9 damaged
B5N Kate x 3 destroyed
B5N Kate x 8 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat x 4 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat x 3 damaged

ENS R. Evans of VF-3 is credited with kill number 7

LT C. Chambers of VF-6 bails out and is RESCUED

Allied Ships
DD Lansdowne, Bomb hits 1
CL Helena
DD Gridley
DD McCalla, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 20,50

Japanese aircraft
B5N Kate x 14

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 50

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N Kate x 9 destroyed
B5N Kate x 7 damaged


LTJG I.Edmonds of VF-8 is credited with kill number 3

Allied Ships
DD McCalla, on fire, heavy damage
DD Fletcher
CL Boise


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 20,50

Japanese aircraft
B5N Kate x 9

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 77

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N Kate x 5 destroyed
B5N Kate x 5 damaged


LTJG J. Sutherland of VF-8 is credited with kill number 4

Allied Ships
DD Woodworth
DD Lamson


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 20,50

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 54
A6M3 Zero x 10
D3A Val x 5

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 79

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 18 destroyed
A6M2 Zero x 1 damaged
A6M3 Zero x 1 destroyed
D3A Val x 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat x 13 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat x 3 damaged

LT C. Chambers of VF-6 is credited with kill number 10

LTJG N.Long of VF-8 is KILLED


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 20,50

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 7
B5N Kate x 3

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 33

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 2 destroyed
B5N Kate x 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat x 2 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat x 3 damaged

LTJG I.Blake of VF-8 is credited with kill number 6


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 20,50

Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 6
D3A Val x 3
B5N Kate x 3

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 41

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3 Zero x 2 destroyed
A6M3 Zero x 1 damaged
D3A Val x 1 destroyed
B5N Kate x 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat x 2 destroyed

LTJG G.Randall of VF-8 is credited with kill number 6

LCDR V.Hirata of DIII-3 Daitai is KILLED

Allied Ships
CA Indianapolis


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 20,50

Japanese aircraft
B5N Kate x 8

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 64

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N Kate x 6 destroyed
B5N Kate x 3 damaged


LCDR M. Kleinmann of VF-6 is credited with kill number 12

Allied Ships
CL Helena


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 20,50

Japanese aircraft
D3A Val x 5

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 64

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val x 6 damaged


Allied Ships
DD Lansdowne, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Kingfisher -> RE: can anyone explain this? (11/30/2010 12:26:09 AM)

How are your carrier TF's organized?

You said your carriers are in the same hex, but are they in the same task force?

This is a wild guess on my part, but could it be that when not operating in the tight confines of the 'Genda Box' the Japanese suffer from the same coordination problem with regards to air strikes as the US?

BTW, 550 carrier strike planes lost and your only at Oct '42 [X(]
Dark days ahead for the IJN





borner -> RE: can anyone explain this? (11/30/2010 1:11:47 AM)

THE KB was in a single TF, exactly so something like this would not happen. 20+ UV games and I have never seen anything close to this. 3 different times not the KB has been in range, and the airstrikes torn apart. At this stage of the game, even with a little land based air support, 5 US carriers should not be able to stand against 10 from the IJN. Still, it's not so much as it happened, I just wish I knew the how's and why's of it all. Plus, in my stikes, the planes that make it through hit a us DD/cruiser group of rthe most part and not the carriers.




Kingfisher -> RE: can anyone explain this? (11/30/2010 1:29:32 AM)

Strange indeed.

The only thing I can come up with is the high attrition would severely impact pilot experience and thus strike coordination, but that is a stretch to say the least.

The IJN starts off with super-high quality pilots, and even a 75% loss rate would leave a small but highly capable core, as witnessed by CARDIV 5's battles during the Guadacanal campaign.

BTW, were the US carrier's positively identified? I know the presence of +150 Wildcats in the middle of the ocean would lead to the conclusion that a carrier or 5 was around, but who knows? Maybe they got lost in the mix. That's how Zuikaku escaped damage in the battle of Coral Sea.





borner -> RE: can anyone explain this? (11/30/2010 1:51:31 AM)

This game has a lot of great points, but every now and then something comes up that fustrates the ______ out of me simply because I cannot explain it.




RGIJN -> RE: can anyone explain this? (11/30/2010 9:38:58 AM)

have very rarely seen this, and even if the strike gets split up they should hit the enemy CVs at least.

Usually KB strikes are coherent, bold blows of 200+ A/C. Especially in 1942. Even if the strike gets split up (what is very unlikely for the japanese naval air attacks) they should hit the enemy carriers.

So, how about fatigue of your pilots in question? What also helps sometimes to get fine coordinated strikes is to attach at least one radar equipped vessel to each CV TF (Yugumo class DD for example).
To my experience, you never need to put all those KB CVs together in one TF. I am used to deploy them in at least two or three TFs (sailing together, of course). If you make it healthy into 1943 you´re going to get 12...15 flattops (carrying impressive 720+ A/C), so you cannot put them viable together in one force anyway due to the 15-ships rule.




borner -> RE: can anyone explain this? (11/30/2010 12:31:01 PM)

I usually split them into two or 3 groups, but given what had happened so far in this game, I thought it was worth the risk. Still did not slove the issue. Yes, usually by 43 you get a carrier force of that strength, but it will be April 3 until myu bombers are back up to strength now due to losses




Miller -> RE: can anyone explain this? (12/1/2010 6:08:55 PM)

Did your opponents carriers launch a counter attack? Judging by the number of F4Fs on CAP it appears to me he is just looking to destroy your CVs airgroups by running a 90% CAP.......a risky tactic but it seems to have worked for him.........




borner -> RE: can anyone explain this? (12/13/2010 11:24:20 PM)

it would be nice to know why sometimes strikes fly in groups, sometimes together. Sometimes with escorts, sometimes not. I doubt anyone from Matrix that worked on the game still reads this forum to comment though, given how long it has been out.




AbeSimpson -> RE: can anyone explain this? (12/14/2010 12:37:53 AM)

Hmm, too much planes for a good strike coordination and perhaps fatigued pilots/ bad TF commander I guess. But without more information its difficult to tell....




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