RE: IJ production mistakes (Full Version)

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Mac Linehan -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/16/2010 6:39:00 AM)

Gents -

An awesome and informative thread, am learning a great deal. Please keep it coming..

Mac




bigred -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/16/2010 10:52:18 PM)

Was looking at vehicle production and noted 398 R&D factories not producing. Also note the 810 shut off refineries. Then I have the 3204 disabled refineries.

[image]local://upfiles/27655/4F543898090449F7A58E52376CFF23D3.jpg[/image]




bigred -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/16/2010 11:11:13 PM)

Note the shut off refinery...


[image]local://upfiles/27655/EC13FE5BC0104DAFB639298A9B9B8408.jpg[/image]




Djordje -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/17/2010 5:22:51 AM)

- Disabled R&D factories are completely normal. They repair very slowly, with increased repairing speed as the date for the plane gets closer. Only fully repaired R&D factories contribute to research.
- Never turn off oil refineries, there is no need for that. You don't use oil for anything else than refineries, and refineries don't use any other resource except oil.
- 4 disabled HI points are most likely in Georgetown, Malaya. Increase supplies demand in that base to 4000. Base will gather 3 times more, 12000 and you will have enough supplies to repair that damage. Some players increase HI production slightly and the best place to do so is in SRA - Georgetown, Singapore, Soerabaja and Batavia. Don't overdo it, I would not go over 50 additional HI total in all those places combined.
- Never repair light industry, it is not worth it.
- Same goes for resources, don't repair them.
- For every base that has disabled industry you should increase supply demand to 4000. Once the repairs are completed reset supply demand back to default to avoid confusing supply routine too much.




vonTirpitz -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/19/2010 1:45:47 AM)

bigred,

You probably already have if figured out but just wanted to note that the 3024 disabled refinery production is actually 3024 fuel points not being produced or rather only 336 refineries that are actually disabled (336 x 9 = 3024 per day).

As others have already mentioned you will probably want to focus repairs on your oil fields first so you can get the 384 disabled ones producing again.


quote:

ORIGINAL: bigred

Was looking at vehicle production and noted 398 R&D factories not producing. Also note the 810 shut off refineries. Then I have the 3204 disabled refineries.





John 3rd -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/19/2010 3:37:50 PM)

This IS highly informative. Thanks for continuing this Sir.




Historiker -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/19/2010 5:31:36 PM)

quote:

- Never turn off oil refineries, there is no need for that. You don't use oil for anything else than refineries, and refineries don't use any other resource except oil.

In some cases, this might be wrong.

1.
10 Oil turn into 9 Fuel and 1 Supply. So when there's supply need in the HI and no need in the SRA, it might be better to transport oil.

2.
Fuel can be transportet by AK, too. Quite inefficiant (especially concerning the fuel need of the AK itself), but still... Oil can only be moved by TK. The fuel inefficiancy of AKs is irrelevant, when you a) don't let them refuel in the HI and b) there's enough fuel in the SRA that can't be moved anyways.

3. When there's too much fuel in a base, huge amounts may be lost. So in some cases, it might quite well be intelligent to turn off the refinery (or carry away the fuel by AK). But IIRC, the ressource and oil production stops when the stockpiles have reached a certain level - is that correct?




Mike Solli -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/19/2010 7:18:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker
3. When there's too much fuel in a base, huge amounts may be lost. So in some cases, it might quite well be intelligent to turn off the refinery (or carry away the fuel by AK). But IIRC, the ressource and oil production stops when the stockpiles have reached a certain level - is that correct?


If at all possible, increase the airfield and port levels to a total of 9. That way, there is no limit to the stockpile of supply and fuel.




Historiker -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/19/2010 7:42:13 PM)

Yes, but you usally don't want to build up every available airfield, or the Allied player will be quite thankfull, no? [;)]

Can you confirm that the ressources and oil production stops after a certain stockpile is reached?




Mike Solli -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/19/2010 7:50:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

Yes, but you usally don't want to build up every available airfield, or the Allied player will be quite thankfull, no? [;)]

Can you confirm that the ressources and oil production stops after a certain stockpile is reached?


I haven't looked very closely at it, just overall numbers. I haven't seen a surprising drop in oil values. It's always been about where I have calculated it to be. Resources fluctuate a bit but tend to just go up. I don't think production stops.




Chickenboy -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/19/2010 7:51:52 PM)

I don't think it does, Historiker. AE allows buildup up to 10,000,000 units, IIRC. A quick look at several large cities in the Home Islands will illustrate resources, oil and fuel stacked to the millions.




Mike Solli -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/19/2010 7:53:42 PM)

Yes you are right.  You don't want to build up ports or airfields everywhere.  I'm very choosy about building up ports and airfields but on occasion there is an isolated base that produces a lot of fuel that I don't want to lose.  Yeah, you can shut off the refinery but I hate doing that.  Usually where I increase the port/airfield to 9, it's in a place where, if the Allies have it, it really won't make any difference because they've taken a lot of real estate to get there.




Historiker -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/19/2010 7:56:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

I don't think it does, Historiker. AE allows buildup up to 10,000,000 units, IIRC. A quick look at several large cities in the Home Islands will illustrate resources, oil and fuel stacked to the millions.

So there's quite a good reason to at least consider shutting down refineries sometimes... [:)]




USSAmerica -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/19/2010 8:01:40 PM)

Check this out!  The little AFB knows something about resource and oil production that the JFB's don't.  [:'(]

Stockpiling oil and res at a base has a limit well over 1,000,000, not sure where/if there is a ceiling.  But, production of oil and res at production centers WILL stop if there is more than 100 days worth of production sitting at the base.  You won't lose anything to spoilage, but you will have some production "lost" as there is no place to store it, if you will. 




USSAmerica -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/19/2010 8:03:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

I don't think it does, Historiker. AE allows buildup up to 10,000,000 units, IIRC. A quick look at several large cities in the Home Islands will illustrate resources, oil and fuel stacked to the millions.

So there's quite a good reason to at least consider shutting down refineries sometimes... [:)]


I don't think so, if your oil is backing up. You could run into the production limit I mentioned above, but if you convert to fuel, then the sky is the limit (assuming the base is large enough to prevent spoilage).




Chickenboy -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/19/2010 8:08:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America


quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

I don't think it does, Historiker. AE allows buildup up to 10,000,000 units, IIRC. A quick look at several large cities in the Home Islands will illustrate resources, oil and fuel stacked to the millions.

So there's quite a good reason to at least consider shutting down refineries sometimes... [:)]


I don't think so, if your oil is backing up. You could run into the production limit I mentioned above, but if you convert to fuel, then the sky is the limit (assuming the base is large enough to prevent spoilage).

Mike is right, but I can't agree with him. Long story. [:'(]




Mike Solli -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/19/2010 8:16:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

Check this out!  The little AFB knows something about resource and oil production that the JFB's don't.  [:'(]

Stockpiling oil and res at a base has a limit well over 1,000,000, not sure where/if there is a ceiling.  But, production of oil and res at production centers WILL stop if there is more than 100 days worth of production sitting at the base.  You won't lose anything to spoilage, but you will have some production "lost" as there is no place to store it, if you will. 



Mike, you crack me up! I had heard that somewhere but never knew if it was a fact.




Historiker -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/19/2010 8:17:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America


quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

I don't think it does, Historiker. AE allows buildup up to 10,000,000 units, IIRC. A quick look at several large cities in the Home Islands will illustrate resources, oil and fuel stacked to the millions.

So there's quite a good reason to at least consider shutting down refineries sometimes... [:)]


I don't think so, if your oil is backing up. You could run into the production limit I mentioned above, but if you convert to fuel, then the sky is the limit (assuming the base is large enough to prevent spoilage).

Yep, THEN!
But at a small base, there is a limit.

Thanks for the clafirication about the production stop. I heard about that, but couldn't remember...




USSAmerica -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/19/2010 8:43:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker


quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America


quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

I don't think it does, Historiker. AE allows buildup up to 10,000,000 units, IIRC. A quick look at several large cities in the Home Islands will illustrate resources, oil and fuel stacked to the millions.

So there's quite a good reason to at least consider shutting down refineries sometimes... [:)]


I don't think so, if your oil is backing up. You could run into the production limit I mentioned above, but if you convert to fuel, then the sky is the limit (assuming the base is large enough to prevent spoilage).

Yep, THEN!
But at a small base, there is a limit.

Thanks for the clafirication about the production stop. I heard about that, but couldn't remember...


I can't leave it alone. [:'(]

Even if your base is small, isn't the amount lost to spoilage just a percentage of the amount over the limit? If you turn off the refinery and hit the oil production/storage limit, you are then losing 100% of the oil production.

Seems to me the losses would be less by converting to fuel and then only losing a percentage of it.




USSAmerica -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/19/2010 8:43:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America


quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

I don't think it does, Historiker. AE allows buildup up to 10,000,000 units, IIRC. A quick look at several large cities in the Home Islands will illustrate resources, oil and fuel stacked to the millions.

So there's quite a good reason to at least consider shutting down refineries sometimes... [:)]


I don't think so, if your oil is backing up. You could run into the production limit I mentioned above, but if you convert to fuel, then the sky is the limit (assuming the base is large enough to prevent spoilage).

Mike is right, but I can't agree with him. Long story. [:'(]



Andre, Torsten can't agree with me either. Same reasons. [:D]




Historiker -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/19/2010 9:05:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America


quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker


quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America


quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

I don't think it does, Historiker. AE allows buildup up to 10,000,000 units, IIRC. A quick look at several large cities in the Home Islands will illustrate resources, oil and fuel stacked to the millions.

So there's quite a good reason to at least consider shutting down refineries sometimes... [:)]


I don't think so, if your oil is backing up. You could run into the production limit I mentioned above, but if you convert to fuel, then the sky is the limit (assuming the base is large enough to prevent spoilage).

Yep, THEN!
But at a small base, there is a limit.

Thanks for the clafirication about the production stop. I heard about that, but couldn't remember...


I can't leave it alone. [:'(]

Even if your base is small, isn't the amount lost to spoilage just a percentage of the amount over the limit? If you turn off the refinery and hit the oil production/storage limit, you are then losing 100% of the oil production.

Seems to me the losses would be less by converting to fuel and then only losing a percentage of it.

100 days of production... that should be quite hard to reach that limit - if you don't forget the base at all...

Edit:
Is there somebody else planning exactly exactly which unit for which garrison? I have a plan of all low xp and low av units and where they should end up. This way, I should be able to save quite some AV for battle [8D]

Edit2:
BTW: do you put garrisons into bases like Wuhu?




bigred -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/20/2010 5:16:07 AM)

Recap Please:
1. Resources and oil limits per base are 1m+(size does not matter even if my wife disagrees).[:'(]
2. Processed fuel is limited by port/airbase storage ability(100x the port size).
3. Base AKs carrying fuel in SRA and Refuel AKs in SRA only.




n01487477 -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/20/2010 6:14:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bigred

Recap Please:
1. Resources and oil limits per base are 1m+(size does not matter even if my wife disagrees).[:'(]

No limits on storage at these, but there is a limit to how much oil can be produced. Not Resources.

Oil Production is limited to (Oil Centre * 1000) so 30 * 1000 gives the limit to oil storage of 30 000 ...

[edit] but just in case you might ask ... yes a port = 9 allows more ...
and another tidbit .. an Af + port size > 10 does nothing the port must be a 9.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2563870&mpage=1&key=sakhalin�
quote:


2. Processed fuel is limited by port/airbase storage ability(100x the port size).

Fuel over 1000 + ( ( port + airfield size ) * ( port + airfield size ) *2000 ) suffers spoilage.
Supplies over 5000 + ( ( port + airfield size ) * ( port + airfield size ) * 3000 ) suffers spoilage.


quote:


3. Base AKs carrying fuel in SRA and Refuel AKs in SRA only.

Unsure about the first bit of this ~ I don't. I tend not to refuel in the Home Is, if possible though.




Historiker -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/20/2010 9:40:54 AM)

quote:

3. Base AKs carrying fuel in SRA and Refuel AKs in SRA only.

AKs are really inefficiant doing this. They can only use half of their cargo space - which is usually already smaller than that of a TK.
It is quite possible that transporting 4000 fuel may burn almoust the same amount, especially if you include the escorts.
BUT:
If you have more fuel than you can transport, this still means you get more fuel home than just with TKs.

Refuel:
You want as much fuel in the HI as possible. So is there anything more inefficiant than hauling it home - to refuel the same ships that brought it? You mustn't forget, that every drop of fuel in the HI has been transported through sub-infested miles of ocean which was dangerous and took some time. SO fuel at home is worth more than fuel in the areas it is produced.
If by any means possible, you may want to avoid using the same fuel immediately at home. This may also mean can create your convoy routes with the goal to refuel as far away from home as possible. The less miles the used fuel have been transported, the better. You may create a fuelstation at formosa, as you have to pass there anyway, but you may also use most of Brunei's fuel to refuel the convoys from the SRA - maybe also to refuel the ships bound for home.




Djordje -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/20/2010 1:10:19 PM)

I don't dedicate any AKs to fuel transport. However whenever AK convoy brings units or supplies to the area where I have fuel I order them to pick it up, even if it means moving few additional hexes to the base with fuel. Better to carry something than to return empty.




castor troy -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/20/2010 2:26:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

quote:

3. Base AKs carrying fuel in SRA and Refuel AKs in SRA only.

AKs are really inefficiant doing this. They can only use half of their cargo space - which is usually already smaller than that of a TK.
It is quite possible that transporting 4000 fuel may burn almoust the same amount, especially if you include the escorts.
BUT:
If you have more fuel than you can transport, this still means you get more fuel home than just with TKs.

Refuel:
You want as much fuel in the HI as possible. So is there anything more inefficiant than hauling it home - to refuel the same ships that brought it? You mustn't forget, that every drop of fuel in the HI has been transported through sub-infested miles of ocean which was dangerous and took some time. SO fuel at home is worth more than fuel in the areas it is produced.
If by any means possible, you may want to avoid using the same fuel immediately at home. This may also mean can create your convoy routes with the goal to refuel as far away from home as possible. The less miles the used fuel have been transported, the better. You may create a fuelstation at formosa, as you have to pass there anyway, but you may also use most of Brunei's fuel to refuel the convoys from the SRA - maybe also to refuel the ships bound for home.



using AKs to haul fuel sure isnīt as efficient as using tankers but if you have spare fuel, spare AK and not enough tankers then itīs worth doing it. The AKs definetely donīt need nearly as much fuel for the transit as they can carry, even as the Allied Iīm using AKs a lot to haul fuel as there are just not enough tankers (and I havenīt lost many of them btw).




bigred -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/21/2010 8:24:18 PM)

A new week. This is a post of my beginning resources and then resources 132 turns into the game. Soposedly secret, so when I improve the situation I may stop posting. The DEI is still a HOT situation, but IJ units are 2 hexes from Soer. Ambion, Massakar and
Kendari fell this week. So the perimeter is proceding as planned. Happy to see a huge rebound in basic supply.
Consideration of stopping LI production is now an option.
Resource usage has stabilized.
[image]local://upfiles/27655/8E9EF429C6414ED5BEF48760344F028E.jpg[/image]




Mike Solli -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/21/2010 8:37:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bigred

A new week. This is a post of my beginning resources and then resources 132 turns into the game. Soposedly secret, so when I improve the situation I may stop posting. The DEI is still a HOT situation, but IJ units are 2 hexes from Soer. Ambion, Massakar and

[image]local://upfiles/27655/8E9EF429C6414ED5BEF48760344F028E.jpg[/image]


Supply is really low compared to stock. Man that's scary. It's coming up so you're doing good. Fuel has dropped by half. That's really scary. I suspect it's a result of the mod you're playing but I don't know for sure. Resources are down by a million. Again, I'm not familiar with the mod but I suspect it may be due to that. Oil is down some but that seems normal.

What large oil centers do you still have to take?




bigred -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/21/2010 8:43:05 PM)

Vehicle production:


[image]local://upfiles/27655/60FDE50D75EE44738B7E3536E35CE3FC.jpg[/image]




bigred -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/21/2010 8:52:46 PM)

[/quote]



What large oil centers do you still have to take?
[/quote]

Medan.

Pal and Borneo are Ij. Still working the Java situation w/ 25th army. 15th army stalled at Rangoon.




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