RE: IJ production mistakes (Full Version)

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jomni -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/15/2010 5:50:21 AM)

Hakodate? Hakkodate? Hakkadata?  The correct name is Hakodate... Mike wins! [:D]




bigred -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/15/2010 7:28:55 AM)

This is an easy to see fighter upgrade chart. Has anyone seen a army fighter or bomber upgrade chart for IJ?

[image]local://upfiles/27655/8E659E47EF4C47EA88262F290433EBD5.jpg[/image]




Bliztk -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/15/2010 10:08:56 AM)

Home islands ports increased to MAX SPS

Hakodate, Ominato, Sapporo and Shikuka.

Hakodate to 7
Shikuka with 7 and a 100,000 ton convoy doing CS is enough

Then Sapporo to level 9 and Ominato to 9. A 172,000 convoy flowing here. You can also have the 100,000 convoy from Hakodate unloading here, shorter range (less fuel) but sometimes one of the convoys will have to wait to dock.

Hint, send all the Naval HQs to Ominato to increase the speed of unloading

Use Shimonoseki to unload ships coming from Port Arthur. (Another 172,000 convoy). Sometimes you will need another convoy is resource increases at PA

Expand Nagoya to recieve convoys from SRA




Historiker -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/15/2010 11:49:46 AM)

I like to have some 1e bomber for both live training in china as well as for training purpose. Why risk a way more expensive 2e bomber for that?
So I use one of the small factories I stop to put Ki-32 back in production. There are 85 engines in pool, and why waste them?




Mike Solli -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/15/2010 12:52:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bigred

This is an easy to see fighter upgrade chart. Has anyone seen a army fighter or bomber upgrade chart for IJ?

[image]local://upfiles/27655/8E659E47EF4C47EA88262F290433EBD5.jpg[/image]

I made that. I've got it all for Japan. PM me your email and I'll send it.




Nomad -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/15/2010 1:18:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni

Hakodate? Hakkodate? Hakkadata?  The correct name is Hakodate... Mike wins! [:D]


So mike wins? Since I didn't spell the base name right I know nothing then I guess.

Thank you for informing me that I am clueless about the game. I hope you all have fun giving
each other bad information.




Historiker -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/15/2010 1:55:04 PM)

I haven't tried it out, yet... But do you still need a few of each plane type to get the units that arrive equipped with it?




Mike Solli -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/15/2010 2:06:20 PM)

Every reinforcement air unit I have gotten so far has arrived with at least 2 aircraft that have not come from the pool.




Historiker -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/15/2010 2:19:11 PM)

So is it possible to give up totally on the Ki-61 and the units will still arrive?




RUDOLF -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/15/2010 2:19:12 PM)

mine looks like this:

(HR: Any IJN fighter may upgrade to any IJN fighter)

[image]http://i52.tinypic.com/24y44lg.jpg[/image]




bigred -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/15/2010 2:27:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

I haven't tried it out, yet... But do you still need a few of each plane type to get the units that arrive equipped with it?



Historiker, Please explain "I haven't tried it out, yet... "
Thanks, Bigred.




n01487477 -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/15/2010 2:32:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bigred


quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

I haven't tried it out, yet... But do you still need a few of each plane type to get the units that arrive equipped with it?



Historiker, Please explain "I haven't tried it out, yet... "
Thanks, Bigred.

All delayed airgroups have at least 1 plane in them (unless the Scen modder doesn't do this), and therefore the group will become available whether you are building that plane type, have any avail in pool or not ... Then you can up/down grade the group.

You can see this in-game or tracker.




stuman -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/15/2010 2:47:15 PM)

quote:

There were some people reporting that once they cleared whole railroad network in middle China, together with joining major roads that oil and resources started finding their way all the way up to Port Arthur. I have not yet been able to clear China in my games but if that is really the case it makes things much easier for Japan... And pure fantasy when compared to reality.


I faintly remember reading that before somewhere on the forums. Surely that cannot be the case. Has anyone actually experienced that happening, or is it really an " urban legend " [:)] There is no way in the world that you could have moved bulk oil, or bulk anything, from Singapore, through Saigon, onwards towards Hanoi, etc., etc., etc. all the way to Port Arthur. Just typing that out makes me want to laugh.( Mind you I generally play Japan. But that would be just goofy. )




Historiker -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/15/2010 2:57:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477


quote:

ORIGINAL: bigred


quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

I haven't tried it out, yet... But do you still need a few of each plane type to get the units that arrive equipped with it?



Historiker, Please explain "I haven't tried it out, yet... "
Thanks, Bigred.

All delayed airgroups have at least 1 plane in them (unless the Scen modder doesn't do this), and therefore the group will become available whether you are building that plane type, have any avail in pool or not ... Then you can up/down grade the group.

You can see this in-game or tracker.

Thank you. So when there's something else than 0 in the colums of Ready Repair and Reserve, it has this numbers of planes when it arrives? I see no other numbers except max planes.




Mike Solli -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/15/2010 3:10:21 PM)

Yeah, they should arrive. Go to the reinforcement page and click on a unit. On the left you'll see a number next to the plane row. That's the number of planes the unit arrives with that doesn't come from the pool. If it's 0, you don't get any. I suspect you'll still get the unit though.




Mike Solli -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/15/2010 3:11:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RUDOLF

mine looks like this:

(HR: Any IJN fighter may upgrade to any IJN fighter)

[image]http://i52.tinypic.com/24y44lg.jpg[/image]


That's with PDU on. The original chart is for PDU off.




TheLoneGunman_MatrixForum -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/15/2010 3:15:08 PM)

Mike, the original also reflects what each factory would automatically upgrade to if the "upgrade" option is left on, correct?




Mike Solli -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/15/2010 3:15:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheLoneGunman

Mike, the original also reflects what each factory would automatically upgrade to if the "upgrade" option is left on, correct?


Yes.




Mike Solli -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/15/2010 3:18:37 PM)

Here is the original.





bigred -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/15/2010 6:06:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: VSWG

I see the University of Japanese Fanboyism is holding another economics lecture... Has anyone from this forum won the nobel prize yet? [;)]



Just trying to survive!!![;)]




bigred -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/15/2010 6:37:45 PM)

Heavy load of info and on target. Thanks Djorje.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Djordje


quote:

ORIGINAL: bigred

quote:

ORIGINAL: Djordje

When you have large quantities of fuel at a base and port is too small, solution might be disbanding some ships in the port nearby (Palembang- Oosthaven for example). Ships in port increase base fuel demand so you will be able to load fuel at two places. It only works for fuel, you can't influence flow of oil and resources that way.
Increasing port size and putting important HQ like Southern Army is the only way to influence flow of oil and resources.



In china I moved the North China Army Hq up past Sian to support northern ops. In the center likewise I moved the China army HQ to Ichang to support ops. I have had a drop in resources at Port Arthur and Shanghia. Could the movement of these HQs have effected resource movement??? I could move the Kwangtung Army HQ to port Arthur to see what happens. When u take an enemy city the city falls under the control of the army/navy HQ w/the largest occuppying AV. I would bet when the HQ is located in a major port all resources from the conqured cities flows to these HQs.

Hypothesis:

My guess is based on the premise that is the same as when a TF belonging to 4thfleet has a button to allow it to return to the city where the 4th fleet is located. If u move the 4th fleet Hq then the selection changes to a new base location. Same logic for oil and resources.


So many questions in this thread, I'll try to answer at least some of them:

- While major HQ pulls stuff, one even more important thing is that base has to have a port... and port should be a large one. Since you have moved your HQs inland I doubt they have pulled oil and resources with them. You can check that easily, just look at stockpiles at their current locations.
How big was drop at Port Arthur that you mentioned? Maybe you were loading resources at some port in the area and you drained it for local resources, which got replenished from Port Arthur? All bases with industry try to stockpile some reserves for future production, don't know the exact ratio but it might be something like enough to cover 10 days of production. If you load those reserves on ships AI will try to bring them in again from nearby location where there is excess.
In general resources in Port Arthur should rise steadily, you should be able to lift at least 150k resources every week or so.

- Next thing, Amoral mentioned G3M3 Nell with radar in 42/5. Actually that is a common mistake by players, that radar becomes operational in 44/6. However even without that radar I consider G3M3 to be superior to G4M1 Betty so here is how I produce them:
41/12 - producing G4M1, G3M2 stopped but factory not converted, waiting for 42/5
42/5 - converting G3M2 to G3M3 (should happen automatically, you can do it manually once May starts for no cost) and starting its production, stopping G4M1
44/1 - stopping G3M3 and converting those factories to something else, starting G4M2 production

- Engines: ha-32 and ha-33 are somewhat linked, because various planes that replace each other switch from one engine to another during several years. Depending on your choice of aircraft numbers might differ, so best thing to do is go to Air Production tab in tracker, select Engines tab and then click on Planning. Click on each engine that interests you and sort planes that use it by availability date. That you give you general idea what to expect in months to come. To answer another question, by producing ha-33 when Nell production was stopped you did not waste anything as you will surely use those engines in the future (Emily needs 4 of them per plane for example)

- Stop Nakajima Kotobuki. Don't change factory to anything yet, wait for the time when you need to increase production of one of your engines and then see if you should maybe convert those that you stopped instead of increasing production in existing ones.

- Zero losses: So far most of the losses were surely operational losses. When those happen over friendly territory pilots have quite high chance of survival. Once the fight intensifies percentage of killed pilots will unfortunately rise...

- IJA bombers: Forget Ki-48 Lily, you need larger bombs and bombload. I suggest producing Ki-21 Sally until 42/9 when Ki-49 Helen with armor becomes available, then you should convert Sally to Helen and produce only Helen from that point onwards. There is one Helen version in 42/4 as well, it has 1 hex shorter range than Sally and in every category seem to be worse plane than Sally, except for slightly better defensive armament which is irrelevant.
For some reason in my PBEM I have switched Sally to that version of Helen on 42/4 and I see now it was mistake. Oh well.
Note that Helen needs its own engine, which no other plane in the game uses.

- Oil: I don't think Japanese player can ever bring enough oil back to HI to keep refineries 100% busy, so oil level will keep dropping since everything you bring in will be used and then some. However, that is not the end of the world, as industry needs fuel to work, not oil, so as long as you bring enough fuel from DEI you should be ok. Japanese players in general ship fuel first, only when DEI bases are sucked dry of fuel they start moving some oil back to Japan. Never shut down refineries, they don't cost anything but oil. When I think of it I don't think you can even shut them down at all.
As for the answer on how much oil is converted into fuel go to Industry screen in tracker, then select Witp Chart tab. In the upper right corner of the chart is oil, numbers you see there are from your actual game. Look for circle with Fuel +/- in it, that's the net result before fleet consumption.

- Few more things:
1. Watch for port capacity, never use TF that is larger than the port you use can support.
Sizes per port level: (Manual page 109)
1 - 9000
2 - 12000
3 - 24000
4 - 48000
5 - 60000
6 - 84000
7 - 104000
8 - 128000
9 - 172000
10 - 196000
When forming TF first select escorts, then fill it with transports until you get close to desired TF size for your target port. This limit suggest that two ports that have convoy between them should be of the same size to maximize efficiency.

2. There is some automatic daily transfer of every 4 resources (supplies, resources, fuel, oil) between two adjacent ports (Manual page 212). It is 500 x size of smaller port for supplies and resources and 100 x size of smaller port for fuel and oil. Therefore you should build some of the important bases up. If for example you build Tsushima to port size 4 (its maximum) you will connect Fusan in Korea with Japan and 2000 supplies and resources and 500 oil and fuel will flow in every day (not sure about Fusan port size at start of the game, if it is smaller than 4 it should also be increased to at least 4 (increasing it to its SPS maximum might bring in additional resources and oil which is handy since Japan in just 2 hexes away). The other good place for this is Ominato - Hakkodate link, it is even more important to increase these 2 ports to level 7. I also try to increase ports on Shikoku that have contact with bases on Honshu and Kyushu.

There are probably dozens of things I currently can't remember but for now this wall of text will have to do...





RUDOLF -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/15/2010 6:38:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli


quote:

ORIGINAL: RUDOLF

mine looks like this:

(HR: Any IJN fighter may upgrade to any IJN fighter)

[image]http://i52.tinypic.com/24y44lg.jpg[/image]


That's with PDU on. The original chart is for PDU off.



Yes and No.
It is also with in Editor George and Jack as "carrier capable" who is required setting to allow all IJN fighters to be upgradeble to any IJN fighter.
Of course we have HR that no Jack or George can be on CV.





Puhis -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/15/2010 6:39:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: VSWG

I see the University of Japanese Fanboyism is holding another economics lecture... Has anyone from this forum won the nobel prize yet? [;)]


I think there's no Nobel prize for IJ economy, we only get hand made katanas.




bigred -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/15/2010 6:42:59 PM)

quote:

Djordje
As for the answer on how much oil is converted into fuel go to Industry screen in tracker, then select Witp Chart tab. In the upper right corner of the chart is oil, numbers you see there are from your actual game. Look for circle with Fuel +/- in it, that's the net result before fleet consumption.



[image]local://upfiles/27655/D1100BB8CBF6497697EEBAFA0DB5FB5D.jpg[/image]

I now understand my oil/resource inputs on the industry chart. Previously I had manually added all the oil and resources. This flow chart did this also and I had no clue what the the fuel and resource circles expressed. I did understand the bottom row expensesand ratios for production. The Yamato just arrived which has been a big chunk of naval points. So I would think next turn naval biuld points in HI will decrease and HI will increase by 233x3.
The question is: What toys do I want to play with?

1. How is the dry dock total calculated and where/what is the drawdown?
2. Am I correct to say this flow chart represents Honshu production only?




bigred -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/15/2010 9:13:29 PM)

next day w/out the Yamato.

[image]local://upfiles/27655/F8F65B5F87E5477B9A8046BBCDB3DCA1.jpg[/image]




bigred -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/15/2010 9:36:11 PM)

Earlier vonTirpitz told me I had a problem w/ not enough HA32 engines. I figured out why.

[image]local://upfiles/27655/0DD0123345C845E782E3F942BDDF602F.jpg[/image]




vonTirpitz -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/16/2010 12:35:59 AM)

Actually, it was your planning screen where the problem jumped out (It is a very handy tool to predict aircraft production problems months ahead of time). It shows where you are producing 150 engines per month but your need was 242 for many months into the future.

[image]local://upfiles/15649/B5F3174938064719B228906224845FC4.jpg[/image]

The multi-engine planes like the Betty (2x) and Emily (4x) eat up your engines.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bigred

Earlier someone told me I had a problem w/ not enough HA32 engines. I figured out why.

[image]local://upfiles/27655/0DD0123345C845E782E3F942BDDF602F.jpg[/image]





Djordje -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/16/2010 1:27:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bigred

quote:

Djordje
As for the answer on how much oil is converted into fuel go to Industry screen in tracker, then select Witp Chart tab. In the upper right corner of the chart is oil, numbers you see there are from your actual game. Look for circle with Fuel +/- in it, that's the net result before fleet consumption.



[image]local://upfiles/27655/D1100BB8CBF6497697EEBAFA0DB5FB5D.jpg[/image]

I now understand my oil/resource inputs on the industry chart. Previously I had manually added all the oil and resources. This flow chart did this also and I had no clue what the the fuel and resource circles expressed. I did understand the bottom row expensesand ratios for production. The Yamato just arrived which has been a big chunk of naval points. So I would think next turn naval biuld points in HI will decrease and HI will increase by 233x3.

It does not work that way, heavy industry is not assigned directly to building ships so finishing Yamato will not affect your heavy industry at all. What will be affected is the level of your naval shipyard points which should start to rise until some new ships start building. In pure theory whole Japan could be destroyed but if you somehow still had large pool of naval shipyard points your ships would still continue to be produced. Also, those build points are for your whole empire, doesn't matter if they were produced in Shanghai or Tokyo they would still contribute the same.

quote:


The question is: What toys do I want to play with?

1. How is the dry dock total calculated and where/what is the drawdown?

Drydock should represent repair shipyards. Not really sure if ships spend some resource while being repaired, I'll have to check that when I get time. Empty repair yards surely don't cost anything.

quote:


2. Am I correct to say this flow chart represents Honshu production only?

The chart is for your whole empire.


Post edited for clarity.




n01487477 -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/16/2010 2:09:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bigred

Earlier someone told me I had a problem w/ not enough HA32 engines. I figured out why.


Sort of ... [;)]
I did 3 tutorials on Trackers Airproduction screens ...
Found here
http://sites.google.com/site/n01487477/Home?pli=1
These are the Titles.

Tracker Airframe Interface
Tracker Engine Interface
Tracker Engine Planning Interface

Djordje is correct about the HI points used to Naval production (and actually applies to of the bottom outputs). The only way to see a jump in HI accumulation is to turn off a facility. So if you got the Yamato, this will make no difference to the HI points being used to create naval points. Only by turning off some Naval factories will you see that change. Later in the war you will probably turn off some to save HI use.

Dockyard use; in my testing I've not seen any resource/HI/supply etc use when ships are being repaired. They never need to be turned off.




n01487477 -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/16/2010 3:07:40 AM)

Some thoughts about your air production as it stands.
Avail
Aichi Ha-60: just became avail building 125/mth; you need to go through and set a production number for your D4Y1's in AE. It is a start up (not an upgrade) so setting this number in AE will then translate better in these screens. At present you have 2 building (not actually cause R&D) and 7 repairs.

Amakaze: I'd change the small factory to another type turn on and expand.(future proof?)

Hitchi: enough in pool and I'd change the factory to another engine type turn on.(future proof?)

Kawasaki: nothing

Ha-31: keep (you're losing engines here; no biggy) and expand to 70 in the next few months. The ki-45 KA1C Nick 43/5 becomes avail and will use & there is (14 upgraded) from previous models. Unfortunately the calculator only looks at one upgrade iteration not KA1a -> KA1b -> c. I guess you want to build more than that too ... go and set a number in AE.

Ha-32: you're down here 92/mth, this all depends on what you decide to do with your build here. You could turn off some Betty production as you have a nice pool already (215). And that would make you in balance.

Ha-33: In surplus (56)

ha-5: I'd change the small factory to another type turn on and expand.(future proof?)

ha-34: in deficit (-18); use some of the surplus engine factories avail or expand this one to at least 40. But once again look at the numbers of planes you want to build here.

ha-35: surplus and no probs. I'd turn off for a month, but I know many JFB's like engines in the bank.

Hikari: nothing

Kotobuki: Turn off or change the factory to something else. Turn back on Nate factory and build until all used.

Nearly avail R&D

Ha-60: keep and because you will be equal with production when it comes online 43/2 Ki-61-1a Tony. But depending on if you expand Tony Ki-61, then you'll have to increase this too.

ha-45: 30 here R&D; George, francis, Frank ... need I say more. Think about the surplus engine factories you have. Set up you plane build numbers.

ha-44: expand or use some of the surplus engine factories; Set your Jill numbers.
...


In the end I'll improve tracker to have a proper plane/engine calculator where you dial in the numbers you want and it will spit out for you ... until then you need to do some real thinking.[8D]


[image]local://upfiles/19798/AF14DB0CB3E142DBB5072EC745AC6BB6.jpg[/image]




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