RE: IJ production mistakes (Full Version)

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n01487477 -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/13/2010 2:18:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli


quote:

ORIGINAL: bigred

Shipping of resources in convoy is:230335 I figure all of this will arrive w/in 7 days so 230335/7=32905 per day input resources average onto Honshu.



Keep in mind that you need roughly 110k resources to flow into Honshu each day. If everything is producing, you need 6.4 mil resources a month and Honshu produces almost 3.1 mil resources. Granted, most if comes from Japan and China/Manchuria/Korea, but you still have to ship almost all of it.

Actually Reluctant Admiral is a bit different ... just downloaded and loaded 1st turn data. I'm intrigued so will have a look at where the shortfall is.

[image]local://upfiles/19798/18D4E93E3B0A402B85506F4B26DF3BE7.jpg[/image]

So a shortfall of about 13K per day of Resources...

They are out there, but it's not going to be an easy task hauling it back; you'll have to become a bit of a micro-manager with Res hauling as the war progresses Big Red. The critical nature of these outlying Res Ctrs will hold valuable strategic importance. I hope your opponent isn't reading this BTW.

I guess you can counter this by having to turn off some LI later as these area's are retaken.

[image]local://upfiles/19798/9EDC70B0AF3F4406B4E0CF93471DA5C2.jpg[/image]




Mike Solli -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/13/2010 2:36:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli


quote:

ORIGINAL: bigred

Shipping of resources in convoy is:230335 I figure all of this will arrive w/in 7 days so 230335/7=32905 per day input resources average onto Honshu.



Keep in mind that you need roughly 110k resources to flow into Honshu each day. If everything is producing, you need 6.4 mil resources a month and Honshu produces almost 3.1 mil resources. Granted, most if comes from Japan and China/Manchuria/Korea, but you still have to ship almost all of it.

Actually Reluctant Admiral is a bit different ... just downloaded and loaded 1st turn data. I'm intrigued so will have a look at where the shortfall is.

[image]local://upfiles/19798/18D4E93E3B0A402B85506F4B26DF3BE7.jpg[/image]


Now that is different. Interesting.




Historiker -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/13/2010 2:48:02 PM)

When you all neglect the jap subs, I wonder, whether you use them for commere raiding or like the Jap doctrine wanted?

I've sunk nearly as many allied CVs with subs than I sunk with CVs and LBA!




bigred -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/13/2010 3:26:18 PM)

quote:

I hope your opponent isn't reading this BTW. Damien


Im sure Jean(DirtyHarry) will and that is ok by me. I decided I need help w/ production so I decided to "open up" for the world to see. This discussion should make us all better players next time.




John 3rd -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/13/2010 3:27:00 PM)

The nice thing about this Thread is that it applies to all who are playing the RA Mod.

Damian and Mike are spot-on. The Japanese start the war slightly better prepared but well over 1.5 million supply and fuel short compared to the traditional beginning. Additionally the new shipyards and industry cost more every month as Damian notes. It DOES make the DEI--and any other resource/oil center--extremely important.

Thanks for all the help guys.




bigred -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/13/2010 3:29:40 PM)

quote:

Mile Solli
Now that is different. Interesting


Mike, please explain to me what is different? I figure you mean to say RA is different than Senario #2 in terms of resources available?




bigred -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/13/2010 3:32:36 PM)

quote:

quote John 3rd

Additionally the new shipyards and industry cost more every month as Damian notes.


John, do you mean to say modification expenses increase as the game moves along?

The allies REALLY will want to cut my nuts on R/O.

So the japs get to have more fun early but must "pay the reaper" later. Only if the allied player knows where to look. Dangerous. This will cause me to deploy tactically in depth at more "sites".

BTW, is a 2to1 A2A kill ratio good? I figured it better to fight A2A early rather than wait and get stomped. Hilo will make my opponent fight.




John 3rd -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/13/2010 3:36:06 PM)

I wasn't clear in my statement. Apologies!

The cost with the increased facilities and industry is higher then in Scenario 1 so you are spending more in resources/oil each month then what a traditional scenario would have you spending. It doesn't go up-and-up just that it starts higher and stays there.

Think that makes sense...




Mike Solli -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/13/2010 4:15:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bigred

quote:

Mile Solli
Now that is different. Interesting


Mike, please explain to me what is different? I figure you mean to say RA is different than Senario #2 in terms of resources available?


It's just what John 3rd said. Supply and fuel are critically short compared to the standard game. In addition, there really isn't a lack of resources, which is a huge concern in the standard game. It's just different variables, that's all. Not what I've become accustomed to.




n01487477 -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/13/2010 4:34:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

quote:

ORIGINAL: bigred

quote:

Mile Solli
Now that is different. Interesting


Mike, please explain to me what is different? I figure you mean to say RA is different than Senario #2 in terms of resources available?


It's just what John 3rd said. Supply and fuel are critically short compared to the standard game. In addition, there really isn't a lack of resources, which is a huge concern in the standard game. It's just different variables, that's all. Not what I've become accustomed to.

I'll differ from you here Mike, compared to the regular game where resources are closer to the Home Is and the margins are bigger(-2K in Scen1 V -13K RA ~ day 1), in this scenario the critical resource centres are at distance and more important. In Scen1 resources are pretty easy to haul and maintain, in this scenario I am not so sure ...

I guess if you mean that the starting position in Japan is much better then I'd agree ... but I think that will become harder to maintain fairly quickly.

Bed time [>:]

[edit] Seems to be something fishy though ... what region-mapping are you using ? Cause my Res use is higher than yours ... Have you turned off some LI/HI or are you using the default mapping which doesn't really do a good job of breaking up the regions ?





Q-Ball -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/13/2010 5:03:18 PM)

It looks like RA will produce an even greater FUEL crunch for the Empire; not only a larger NAVY burning more Fuel, but hauling resources from distant spots is going to burn more as well.

Not sure how far anyone has gotten, but it looks like the Empire will be very Fuel-constrained. And that may be WAD




John 3rd -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/13/2010 5:22:18 PM)

It will require 'creativity' Q-Ball!

Have to say I am glad everyone concerned agrees. The vision was to create a slightly stronger Japan that peaks in 1943 but has to be very careful with its fuel, supply, and resource work. To this point it looks like we have achieved what the vision was set out to be...




Q-Ball -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/13/2010 5:24:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

It will require 'creativity' Q-Ball!

Have to say I am glad everyone concerned agrees. The vision was to create a slightly stronger Japan that peaks in 1943 but has to be very careful with its fuel, supply, and resource work. To this point it looks like we have achieved what the vision was set out to be...



A worthwhile goal, I think in a normal game, the IJN will not have the same Fuel Crunch as IRL. The goal should be not to prevent the IJN from moving, but at least to provide a break and limits.

Should be interesting to see how it evolves.




crsutton -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/13/2010 7:12:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

When you all neglect the jap subs, I wonder, whether you use them for commere raiding or like the Jap doctrine wanted?

I've sunk nearly as many allied CVs with subs than I sunk with CVs and LBA!



Depends if the game is p-email of vs the AI. VS a human your subs will be come fairly redundant after mid 1943. Allied ASW assets just go monster then and it only gets worse. Even SCs and AMs start to get some serious junk to throw your way. You will need subs for transport duty and laying mines but you will just start to lose too many for the cost if you are hunting warships.




VSWG -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/13/2010 9:07:38 PM)

I see the University of Japanese Fanboyism is holding another economics lecture... Has anyone from this forum won the nobel prize yet? [;)]




bigred -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/13/2010 11:24:11 PM)

What page in the manual deals w/ repair of oil facilities?

[image]local://upfiles/27655/4BF8BFF5BB07441D8F2480BA551C8852.jpg[/image]




Nomad -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/13/2010 11:50:26 PM)

I fix the oil but not the refineries. They will repair 1 point per turn for 1,000 supply if you have 10,000+ supplies at the base.




John 3rd -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/13/2010 11:53:17 PM)

Must have bunches of supply there so thing repair quickly. The refineries are a toss-up from my point-of-view for repairs.




Chickenboy -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/14/2010 1:57:38 AM)

Gotta fix the oil. Don't gotta fix the refinery, that one's optional.




n01487477 -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/14/2010 3:00:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

It will require 'creativity' Q-Ball!

Have to say I am glad everyone concerned agrees. The vision was to create a slightly stronger Japan that peaks in 1943 but has to be very careful with its fuel, supply, and resource work. To this point it looks like we have achieved what the vision was set out to be...



A worthwhile goal, I think in a normal game, the IJN will not have the same Fuel Crunch as IRL. The goal should be not to prevent the IJN from moving, but at least to provide a break and limits.

Should be interesting to see how it evolves.

I totally agree especially as the IJN has an expanded roster and the unknown variable of how much fuel will it take to keep the transports and additional combat ships at sea will be interesting to watch.




bigred -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/14/2010 6:07:45 AM)

Updated resourses-Kull

[image]local://upfiles/27655/874B400BCD6B42F4B36CFAED23202DA9.jpg[/image]




n01487477 -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/14/2010 6:28:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bigred

Updated resourses-Kull


Yeah that looks more like it ...
~~ your Res +/- has fallen from about 57 days at the scenario beginning till now ... so not too bad but a downward trend none-the-less.

So it looks like you need to do a couple of things:

1. a)Build up the main ports on hokkaido and Sakhalin with engineers to max cargo efficiency.
b)Might have to pick up from multiports on Hokkaido.
c)Corresponding ports close with capacity should be used on Honshu
d)Use similar sized AK's and make sure they can dock.
2. Increase your transport of Res from those areas closest to you... 181K might seem a lot to be shipping, but it's only 2.5 days worth. The 900 K I can see outside the Home Is. is only 11 days worth of Res ~ not to worry it gets replaced.
3. Capture those area's with Res quickly and set up an efficient transport system... Using the land route is often better.

More thoughts when I get to look closely at the data tonight.




bigred -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/14/2010 6:34:41 AM)

I noted on my traker review system problems w/ these locations on this screen print. I suspect these LI and res facilities have been damaged in combat. If 1 point of fix is 1000 supply this is why my supplies in china are going down. so I will turn off/not repair these facilities.

[image]local://upfiles/27655/774D8732E3194A598EA6E7510B1F228D.jpg[/image]




Nomad -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/14/2010 12:09:47 PM)

I would certainly turn off the repair of the LI. But, I would locate the damaged HI and get supplies there and repair them.




FatR -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/14/2010 2:10:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

It looks like RA will produce an even greater FUEL crunch for the Empire; not only a larger NAVY burning more Fuel, but hauling resources from distant spots is going to burn more as well.

Not sure how far anyone has gotten, but it looks like the Empire will be very Fuel-constrained. And that may be WAD

In my game, which reached May of 1942, I've managed to stabilize the oil/fuel situation, despite the massive fuel burn during the ongoing Hawaii invasion. But that's because SRA oil centers were taken 95% intact. If Palembang or even Balikpapan get trashed, the freedom of fleet operations is likely to be severely jeopardized.

The supply situation is tolerable at the moment, but stockpiles are slowly dwingling.

My biggest logistical problem at the moment is lifting massive amounts of fuel, oil and resources stockpiled in Southern Sumatra from the level-4 port of Palembang. I'll try to build up Oosthafen in hope that some of the resources flow there.




bigred -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/14/2010 3:26:50 PM)

Thanks for the comments Nomad and FatR. Oddly, I was looking at the AE industrial charts and noticed Miri has a problem. For the newbie, you should note the size=111(189 possible). To me this is indicated 78 damage points @ Miri. Because I was striping supply out the program has not been able to fix the damage. I Hit the industry button then scrolled down looking for trouble. This is the standout.


[image]local://upfiles/27655/AB611C80D8F44973A9C291731BD282C1.jpg[/image]




Djordje -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/14/2010 4:47:31 PM)

When you have large quantities of fuel at a base and port is too small, solution might be disbanding some ships in the port nearby (Palembang- Oosthaven for example). Ships in port increase base fuel demand so you will be able to load fuel at two places. It only works for fuel, you can't influence flow of oil and resources that way.
Increasing port size and putting important HQ like Southern Army is the only way to influence flow of oil and resources.




bigred -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/14/2010 5:07:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Djordje

When you have large quantities of fuel at a base and port is too small, solution might be disbanding some ships in the port nearby (Palembang- Oosthaven for example). Ships in port increase base fuel demand so you will be able to load fuel at two places. It only works for fuel, you can't influence flow of oil and resources that way.
Increasing port size and putting important HQ like Southern Army is the only way to influence flow of oil and resources.



Wow, Southern Army attracks oil. What if you put the southern army at CamRanh Bay?
Would the resources at Singers move back to indochina? This would save 3 days on the convoy trips. Also for tactical purposes Southern army can provide an attack modifier to amy attacking army w/in 18 hexs. Later I planned to take SArmy to burma, but now I dont know.




bigred -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/14/2010 5:14:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FatR

quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

It looks like RA will produce an even greater FUEL crunch for the Empire; not only a larger NAVY burning more Fuel, but hauling resources from distant spots is going to burn more as well.

Not sure how far anyone has gotten, but it looks like the Empire will be very Fuel-constrained. And that may be WAD

In my game, which reached May of 1942, I've managed to stabilize the oil/fuel situation, despite the massive fuel burn during the ongoing Hawaii invasion. But that's because SRA oil centers were taken 95% intact. If Palembang or even Balikpapan get trashed, the freedom of fleet operations is likely to be severely jeopardized.

The supply situation is tolerable at the moment, but stockpiles are slowly dwingling.

My biggest logistical problem at the moment is lifting massive amounts of fuel, oil and resources stockpiled in Southern Sumatra from the level-4 port of Palembang. I'll try to build up Oosthafen in hope that some of the resources flow there.


I sense that FatR is move experienced than I w/ fuel management. I also sense playing the IJ first time w/ this senario I have bit off more than I can chew. On the other hand, I feel for a short time in my game until his learing curve catches up I have more tactical experience than my opponent, so a balance in my game has occurred. Interesting.




Mike Solli -> RE: IJ production mistakes (10/14/2010 5:17:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bigred

Thanks for the comments Nomad and FatR. Oddly, I was looking at the AE industrial charts and noticed Miri has a problem. For the newbie, you should note the size=111(189 possible). To me this is indicated 78 damage points @ Miri. Because I was striping supply out the program has not been able to fix the damage. I Hit the industry button then scrolled down looking for trouble. This is the standout.


Actually, Miri has 111 undamaged oil and 189 damaged oil. Miri starts the game at 150(150) so when you took it, an additional 39 oil were damaged. I recommend shipping supply there to get it going. It'll take 6 months, assuming >10k supply the entire time.




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