BFTB – commissioned by the US Army ? (Full Version)

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sterckxe -> BFTB – commissioned by the US Army ? (8/27/2010 4:36:56 PM)

Hi,

It started out as a rather elegant review piece from Michael Peck for TSJ, the professional Training & Simulation Journal, where he looked at the command and control aspects of BFTB, then this bombshell :

"Battles from the Bulge” has been ordered by the U.S. Army’s Command and General Staff College, which may also order a modern warfare version of the game."
http://www.tsjonline.com/story.php?F=4696385

Congrats to Arjuna for landing this contract, at last a smart use of American tax payer dollars :)

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx




SwampYankee68 -> RE: BFTB – commissioned by the US Army ? (8/27/2010 6:06:21 PM)

So the Government may pay for the development of a Modern Warfare version of Command Ops?

The trickle down on this will please me greatly...




MarkShot -> RE: BFTB – commissioned by the US Army ? (8/27/2010 7:40:52 PM)

Well, we really need is a comment from Dr. James Sterrett to know what that really means. I mean it could just be that they are purchasing a few copies for the training program or they could be acquiring a site license. I had such a discussion with him regarding another developer's products a while back. But in any case, regardless of scope, it will look good in the literature and marketing "used by the US Army for officer training".

And the modern warfare version idea has been kicking around since the days when Dave was a private.

We need some more details! Dave? James?

Congrats!




Real and Simulated Wars -> RE: BFTB – commissioned by the US Army ? (8/28/2010 6:47:24 AM)

This is great news!

I haven't seen this article in the print version of TSJ.
Thanks for the heads up!

Cheers,




Shadrach -> RE: BFTB – commissioned by the US Army ? (8/29/2010 12:20:41 AM)

Congratulations indeed to Panther - I think I read somewhere that their games are also used by the Australian military for training. Then from what I understand the aussies are really at the forefront of using digital training tools in the military.

A modern warfare game on this engine makes me drool all over it [:D]




jomni -> RE: BFTB – commissioned by the US Army ? (8/29/2010 5:51:29 AM)

Ok so now you can afford to lower the price.[:D]




hank -> RE: BFTB – commissioned by the US Army ? (8/29/2010 2:00:28 PM)

This is great news IMHO. I don't follow every wargame out there but the only one I'm aware of that got this kind of official US military attention was ... Steelbeasts ... arguable the best modern warfare Armored simulator in the world. I have not upgraded to the latest version but I was one of the earliest purchasers of the first release. After the military got involved it fueled some tremendous development and upgrades.

Congratulations




MarkShot -> RE: BFTB – commissioned by the US Army ? (8/29/2010 2:04:55 PM)

Does Esim have US contracts? I didn't think so. I thought it was with mainly various European countries.




hank -> RE: BFTB – commissioned by the US Army ? (8/29/2010 11:21:53 PM)

"Steel Beasts" is being used by US Military Academy at West Point, and the armies of
Australia, Denmark, Finland, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Spain, Sweden, and the Canadian Air Force.

Who was first I don't know. Its been a few years since I was in the SB loop. Forgive me if I'm wrong.




Magpius -> RE: BFTB – commissioned by the US Army ? (8/30/2010 1:02:38 AM)

Before SB, there was Tacops, modern sim with a WW2 mod.
Still strong fan base.




jomni -> RE: BFTB – commissioned by the US Army ? (8/30/2010 1:51:22 AM)

HPS POA was commissioned by the USAF. The game can also run in autopilot mode where you let the computer run 1,000s of battle simulations to learn the effectivity of weapons systems. The game is quite ambitious but it keeps hanging.

BFTB on the other hand is very polished! Hope this makes way for a modern title. This one I really like.




Arjuna -> RE: BFTB – commissioned by the US Army ? (9/2/2010 1:25:52 AM)

FYI these rumours of our contractual success with the US Army are greatly exagerated. Yes the US Army's Command and General Staff College ( CGSC ) is using BFTB and previously used COTA in their training programs. Yes they did put up a submission in July to develop a modern warfare version of Command Ops. Yes I did travel to the US to support and facilitate the development of that submission and yes the College were very supportive. But alas the submission was dashed on the rocks of the US Army's National Simulation Centre and failed to get funded. Such is life.




John21b -> RE: BFTB – commissioned by the US Army ? (9/2/2010 2:07:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

FYI these rumours of our contractual success with the US Army are greatly exagerated. Yes the US Army's Command and General Staff College ( CGSC ) is using BFTB and previously used COTA in their training programs. Yes they did put up a submission in July to develop a modern warfare version of Command Ops. Yes I did travel to the US to support and facilitate the development of that submission and yes the College were very supportive. But alas the submission was dashed on the rocks of the US Army's National Simulation Centre and failed to get funded. Such is life.


Damn, dreams of a modern system splinters on the rocks again..... oh well...




James Sterrett -> RE: BFTB – commissioned by the US Army ? (9/2/2010 6:38:28 PM)

As Dave notes, it didn't fly, but I did manage to get my simulations classroom at CGSC kitted out with BFTB (and we've also got  COTA and HTTR....) 




James Sterrett -> RE: BFTB – commissioned by the US Army ? (9/2/2010 6:48:07 PM)

As far as I know, eSim has no US military contracts.  West Point has an older version of Steel Beasts Pro.  Most of the Leopard-using countries have it - the big exception is Germany, oddly enough.

The Department of the Army owns a version of TacOps that's essentially civilian version 4.05AM; the Marines, Canadians, Australians, and New Zealanders also own various versions of it.

The Marines have Close Combat Marines, which is pretty close to Close Combat Modern Tactics. 

All of these are in my classroom -- like BFTB, COTA, HTTR -- but the use is pretty limited.  I teach courses on Training with Simulations, and these are some of the sims that they play and then discuss, serving both as examples of a type, something to drive discussion about wider training with sims points, and to expand student's notion of the limits of the possible.






sterckxe -> RE: BFTB – commissioned by the US Army ? (9/3/2010 8:23:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: James Sterrett
All of these are in my classroom -- like BFTB, COTA, HTTR -- but the use is pretty limited.  I teach courses on Training with Simulations, and these are some of the sims that they play and then discuss, serving both as examples of a type, something to drive discussion about wider training with sims points, and to expand student's notion of the limits of the possible.


Damn' shame that it didn't pan out as planned for Arjuna. Well, there's always another budget year - at some point someone is going to realise that with all the MOUT stuff they're training for now, they're again preparing for the previous war and they'll want a modern simulation of conventional land combat as well.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx





MarkShot -> RE: BFTB – commissioned by the US Army ? (9/3/2010 3:35:23 PM)

Yes, James, why aren't you spending more "stimulus dollars" (my tax dollars) on giving Dave and Paul work? Shame on you! Of course, they are an "Australian" company, but I am sure Dave would be happy to hire Americans if he received a fat and juicy contract from the Army. :)




James Sterrett -> RE: BFTB – commissioned by the US Army ? (9/3/2010 5:10:54 PM)

Mark,

(frustrated outburst on repeated failures to get the project off the gournd deleted in the interests of public decency)

Sigh.   [:(]




BAL -> RE: BFTB – commissioned by the US Army ? (9/3/2010 5:45:09 PM)

A little OT, but since James Sterrett is posting here I'll ask. Some time ago you led a command staff exercise using, if I remember correctly, COTA and an early version of BftB. This was held in Lawrence, KS. Do you plan doing another in the Lawrence area?




James Sterrett -> RE: BFTB – commissioned by the US Army ? (9/4/2010 12:34:01 AM)

If Kansas City (Lee's Summit) counts as the Lawrence area, yes -- we tend to come to the Recruits convention. (We won't be at Fall Recruits, in two weeks' time, because it's coming right after a major exercise.)

Recruits is held at the Lee's Summit High School & is a great small convention.




BAL -> RE: BFTB – commissioned by the US Army ? (9/4/2010 1:37:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: James Sterrett

If Kansas City (Lee's Summit) counts as the Lawrence area, yes -- we tend to come to the Recruits convention. (We won't be at Fall Recruits, in two weeks' time, because it's coming right after a major exercise.)

Recruits is held at the Lee's Summit High School & is a great small convention.



Close enough for where I would be driving from. I signed up for their newsletter so look forward to info in the future.

Thanks!




tyrspawn -> RE: BFTB – commissioned by the US Army ? (9/18/2010 7:54:30 AM)

Please for the love of god release this to the public as well! 




James Sterrett -> RE: BFTB – commissioned by the US Army ? (9/18/2010 2:33:31 PM)

If you're asking about the staff training demos, then yes, we announce them here too.

If you're asking about an Army version of Command Ops....

1) It doesn't exist at the moment (and we have, yet again, failed to get the project funded [:(] )
2) If it does, I expect that Panther will retain the commercial rights to any work done, so they could sell a commercial version.

In the meantime, to get what's in my classroom... buy BFTB. [:)]




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