MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command (Full Version)

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Bliztk -> MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command (7/18/2009 11:53:07 AM)

Could anyone explain me what are the effects of sending pilots to training command ?

The manual says that you can send pilots to it, and it refers to 16.3, while it only mentions that pilots here are in the Pilot Reserve Pool





CV Zuikaku -> RE: Training Command (7/18/2009 1:53:37 PM)

Also is the training command still broken? Is it going to be fixed in the first patch? and how is the pilot training influenced by withdrawing of top combat pilots to training command? More trained pilots? More experience for trained pilots? Both?




Bliztk -> RE: Training Command (7/18/2009 3:41:32 PM)

bump for changing correctly the subject [:)]




TheElf -> RE: Training Command (7/18/2009 3:43:29 PM)

wow...that was fast...[X(]




TheElf -> RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command (7/18/2009 3:48:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bliztk

Could anyone explain me what are the effects of sending pilots to training command ?

The manual says that you can send pilots to it, and it refers to 16.3, while it only mentions that pilots here are in the Pilot Reserve Pool



Sending pilots to the training command does several things

1. It takes skilled pilots off the front lines and makes room for a less EXP'd pilot to either gain combat EXP or be killed.

2. Pilots in the training command increase the rate and quality of new pilots

3. The Quality increase reaches a point of diminishing returns if Pilots are coming out at their national average, but point 1 above and the rate at which they train is still baing affected.




TheElf -> RE: Training Command (7/18/2009 3:50:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CV Zuikaku

Also is the training command still broken? Is it going to be fixed in the first patch? *and how is the pilot training influenced by withdrawing of top combat pilots to training command? *More trained pilots? *More experience for trained pilots? Both?

The training Command is not broken.

see my previous post.




CV Zuikaku -> RE: Training Command (7/18/2009 7:37:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheElf


quote:

ORIGINAL: CV Zuikaku

Also is the training command still broken? Is it going to be fixed in the first patch? *and how is the pilot training influenced by withdrawing of top combat pilots to training command? *More trained pilots? *More experience for trained pilots? Both?

The training Command is not broken.

see my previous post.


Well, it was a few weeks ago. YH in his AAR explained that pilots sent to training command simply disappear, and that we must not send any pilot to training command so we avoid losing them. That was supposed to be patched after release... Is that bug history already? [X(] [&o]




TheElf -> RE: Training Command (7/18/2009 10:23:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CV Zuikaku


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheElf


quote:

ORIGINAL: CV Zuikaku

Also is the training command still broken? Is it going to be fixed in the first patch? *and how is the pilot training influenced by withdrawing of top combat pilots to training command? *More trained pilots? *More experience for trained pilots? Both?

The training Command is not broken.

see my previous post.


Well, it was a few weeks ago. YH in his AAR explained that pilots sent to training command simply disappear, and that we must not send any pilot to training command so we avoid losing them. That was supposed to be patched after release... Is that bug history already? [X(] [&o]

I haven't seen that, and if YH posted it in his AAR, he should have also posted it on the Dev forum, which I haven't seen. Not to say he didn't just that I haven't seen it.

My coder has assured me that the code is working as designed.




CV Zuikaku -> RE: Training Command (7/19/2009 1:00:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheElf


quote:

ORIGINAL: CV Zuikaku


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheElf


quote:

ORIGINAL: CV Zuikaku

Also is the training command still broken? Is it going to be fixed in the first patch? *and how is the pilot training influenced by withdrawing of top combat pilots to training command? *More trained pilots? *More experience for trained pilots? Both?

The training Command is not broken.

see my previous post.


Well, it was a few weeks ago. YH in his AAR explained that pilots sent to training command simply disappear, and that we must not send any pilot to training command so we avoid losing them. That was supposed to be patched after release... Is that bug history already? [X(] [&o]

I haven't seen that, and if YH posted it in his AAR, he should have also posted it on the Dev forum, which I haven't seen. Not to say he didn't just that I haven't seen it.

My coder has assured me that the code is working as designed.


Well, I'm glad to hear that everything is working fine with training command. here is the page where YH was explaining training command to us. somewhere arrond the middle of the page...
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2113360&mpage=13&key=




Barb -> RE: Training Command (7/19/2009 9:12:36 AM)

Elf: I thought a tester was the person who has to make himself sure the things works properly [:D]




viberpol -> RE: Training Command (7/19/2009 11:58:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL:  Yamato hugger

quote:

ORIGINAL:  CV Zuikaku

Then, if you have some time and good will, can you tell us something more about replacement pilots? [;)] How can we increase their quality? Are we able to withdraw some crack combat pilots to act as instructors and help in training pilots in flight schools? Something like that was mentioned a year ago, but I don't understand what is it working like. Or if it has been implemented at all...



Well, I will try, but frankly a lot of it wont make any sense to you, because honestly, it doesnt to me either.

If you hit the "I" key or click on the "view intell reports" icon on the top of the screen you get the top pix which is pretty much the same as WitP. When you hit the "pilot replacements" button you get the 2nd screen. I will try to explain what this means part by part.

This is where it gets confusing. If you look at the IJN line, I was under the impression that the "1615" was the number of pilots that had finished training, but I was told that this number is the total number of pilots in the complete training process. I dont understand how this could be true because if you add up all the pilots in training, its almost 2000 so that explanation doesnt wash.

When they finish training they come out with 35 experience. US Navy is the only ones that come out with more than this, they come out with 40.

150 pilots are added to this pool every month. I am not sure if this is on a daily basis (ie 4.5 pilots a day) or a monthly lump sum. These pilots are added to the "months 1-3" box. Im inclined to think its a monthly lump sum.

The next 4 "boxes" are various stages of training shown as number of pilots and their experience level. You can see from this that I have 438 pilots in this stage of their training, and if they were to be used, they would only have 1 experience! After a pilot has been in this box for 3 months, he moves to the next one (the 4-6 box). I have 463 pilots in this box currently and if they were to be used, they would have 12 experience. Again, after a pilot sits in this box for 3 months, he moves to the next. I have 457 pilots in the 7-9 box and if used they would have 21 experience. Another 3 months here and they move to the last box which has 444 pilots and if used here they would have 28 experience. After they are finished here, they go to the "pool" which I believe is the 1615 figure. Unless a coder comes in and says otherwise Im going to have to say thats how it works to the best of my understanding.

Pilots are used in the order that they were put in the pool. That is, the longest in training is used first. You dont select which box you use pilots from. First in, first out. Period. After you use up all the pilots you have in the "trained" pool, you start tapping those in the 10-12 box. If these are all used up, you then start on the 7-9 box, ect.

If you click on the "reserve pool" button you get the next screen. At the top it says that there are 117 pilots in reserve, either in a groups pool or in the general reserve. Note also, that this list shows your wounded pilots also (they wont appear in the groups pilot list). It isnt shown on this display, but of the 117 pilots here, only 2 arent assigned to a group. These both are listed as "patrol reserve" and 1 of them has 55 experience and the other has 47. Now its possible that when a pilot finishes his training in the 10-12 box from the last screen he is added to this pool, but frankly Im not sure.

Any pilot that has 80+ experience and is in this pool is eligible to be withdrawn to "training command". His name will appear in yellow and if clicked, a pop-up box will ask if you want to transfer him. This box does nothing at this time, and I was under the impression it was to be removed from the game but I see its still in there. Do NOT say "yes" as your pilot will go poof and it does nothing for you. The original specs were to have him boost the trainees experience or shorten their training or similar but was never implemented.

[image]local://upfiles/14252/639BCE1E45614CE2A75BBD50C510F937.jpg[/image]






castor troy -> RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command (7/19/2009 1:55:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheElf


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bliztk

Could anyone explain me what are the effects of sending pilots to training command ?

The manual says that you can send pilots to it, and it refers to 16.3, while it only mentions that pilots here are in the Pilot Reserve Pool



Sending pilots to the training command does several things

1. It takes skilled pilots off the front lines and makes room for a less EXP'd pilot to either gain combat EXP or be killed.

2. Pilots in the training command increase the rate and quality of new pilots

3. The Quality increase reaches a point of diminishing returns if Pilots are coming out at their national average, but point 1 above and the rate at which they train is still baing affected.



I´ve thought this wasn´t implemented? [X(] At least that´s what I´ve read in some of the tester´s AARs.

edit: oops, people were asking the same question faster than me... disregard...




viberpol -> RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command (7/19/2009 2:02:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheElf

2. Pilots in the training command increase the rate and quality of new pilots



And if training command is implemented how does exactly it impact the pilot training program? Meaning... say 10 of exp>90 pilots in TC = ...

How can these pilots be brought back from the TC or reserve pool back to the daitai?
Does "get pilot" button in a squadron view bring new pilots from replacement pool (months 10-12)or the reserve pool or from TC?




NormS3 -> RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command (7/20/2009 6:00:25 PM)

can you get the pilot back from the training command? After a delay? Does/can he go back to previous unit




viberpol -> RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command (7/21/2009 8:29:27 AM)

BUMP

Can you please describe in more details how the system of training/training command/increasing the qualities with veterans/pilot reserve/get pilot (from where?) really works in AE?
This is crucial for all JFBs.

"The world wants to know"... [:D]
It seems we have some small dissonance here...




romanovich -> RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command (7/22/2009 11:01:37 PM)

Second that.




kmussler -> RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command (7/22/2009 11:35:42 PM)

This is from the manual (p.260, top of page)

"Some groups can be defined as “Training Groups”. Not to be confused with groups on a mission
of Training. These Training Groups can be loaded up with pilots from the last few months of
the training roster, and be assigned training missions like any other group. But they cannot fly
combat missions. Once the pilots have gained a certain level of skills, they can be released
back into the Reserve Pilot pool. Instructors can be pulled into the group to increase training."

These same groups appear to be the same ones experienced pilots from the reserve pool (instructors) can be added to, and then placed back into the reserve pool once the training group has trained up to a level you feel is adequate.

At least it looks like that's the way it works to me. Pretty cool.

Kurt




Andy Mac -> RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command (7/22/2009 11:47:15 PM)

Mass kamikaze Tiger Moths (or the japanese equivalnet thereon.....)





kmussler -> RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command (7/22/2009 11:57:18 PM)

Now that would be interesting![:D]

It raises a question, though. Let say a "Training Group" is based in Tokyo. Then Halsey comes off the coast and raids Tokyo. The manual says these "Training Groups" don't participate in combat. What if their base is attacked? Do fighter "Training Groups" defend their base or run away?

Kurt




pad152 -> RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command (7/23/2009 12:37:57 AM)

I'm some what suprised the option to select a pilot when getting a pilot replacement wasn't implemented, I always throught it was odd that you can get an ace when getting a replacement for a Glen then have to settle with average pilot when filling out your carrier air groups! All the training in the world doesn't mean anything if you can't get the best pilots for your carrier air groups.[8|]




kmussler -> RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command (7/23/2009 12:58:31 AM)

I would like to think that when you press that "get new pilot" button on the squadron screen, the pilot taken from the reserve pool added to the squadron will have good skills in the area of the squadron's function. If the squadron is a level bombing squadron, the new pilot would have level bombing skills, or if the squadron was a carrier divebomber squadron, then the pilot would have been trained in naval divebombing. I certainly think it is reasonable to expect this because of the addition of all those pilot skill areas (see manual p.145, at bottom). But I don't think it says for sure. However, it is reasonable to believe that the new "Training Groups" can train pilots for skill in these indivdual skill areas. And, once done training, dump a bunch of newly trained carrier divebomber pilots (for example) into the Reserve Pool. In my mind, this is a significant step forward for managing pilots.

Kurt




pad152 -> RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command (7/23/2009 1:09:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kmussler

I would like to think that when you press that "get new pilot" button on the squadron screen, the pilot taken from the reserve pool added to the squadron will have good skills in the area of the squadron's function. If the squadron is a level bombing squadron, the new pilot would have level bombing skills, or if the squadron was a carrier divebomber squadron, then the pilot would have been trained in naval divebombing. I certainly think it is reasonable to expect this because of the addition of all those pilot skill areas (see manual p.145, at bottom). But I don't think it says for sure. However, it is reasonable to believe that the new "Training Groups" can train pilots for skill in these indivdual skill areas. And, once done training, dump a bunch of newly trained carrier divebomber pilots (for example) into the Reserve Pool. In my mind, this is a significant step forward for managing pilots.

Kurt


That's my point, what's to prevent getting a good bomber pilot when filling out a fighter group or that fighter ace you sent to training command showing up as a transport pilot when you get a replacement pilot?




kmussler -> RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command (7/23/2009 1:25:07 AM)

Well, since I'm not sure that the system doesn't work like I think it should, I'm going to wait to see how it actually works first before I ask for changes.  To me, the new system is significantly better that the old one, but being able to select pilots from the reserve pool might be nice.   It is, however, another layer of micro-management.  If the "select new pilot" button selects by skill type too, then I'm good, even if I can't pick an exact guy from the pool.

Kurt




Yamato hugger -> RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command (7/23/2009 2:15:08 AM)

For the record it was asked on the devs forum (at least twice) and the only responses (prior to the posting in the AAR) was from other testers saying they asked and only speculation that it didnt work, so lacking a response from the air team, I posted the information I had.




kmussler -> RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command (7/23/2009 2:32:03 AM)

Yamato Hugger,
I have no problem with what you reported back then. The devs openness about the progress of the testing makes it inevitable that some things that were intended to work, don't work properly at first, and then get fixed later. And all stages of this progression was reported in the forums. It's also inevitable that someone or another gets accidentally left out of the reporting loop. I was a programmer once upon a time. I understand bug hunting and reporting snafus. [:D]

Kurt




dazoline II -> RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command (7/23/2009 3:10:57 AM)

How are the training groups identified?




Erik Rutins -> RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command (7/23/2009 3:27:42 AM)

As The Elf said, it works. He's the Air Team Lead and should know.




TheElf -> RE: Training Command (7/23/2009 8:03:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Barb

Elf: I thought a tester was the person who has to make himself sure the things works properly [:D]

Me too...




TheElf -> RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command (7/23/2009 8:04:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152


quote:

ORIGINAL: kmussler

I would like to think that when you press that "get new pilot" button on the squadron screen, the pilot taken from the reserve pool added to the squadron will have good skills in the area of the squadron's function. If the squadron is a level bombing squadron, the new pilot would have level bombing skills, or if the squadron was a carrier divebomber squadron, then the pilot would have been trained in naval divebombing. I certainly think it is reasonable to expect this because of the addition of all those pilot skill areas (see manual p.145, at bottom). But I don't think it says for sure. However, it is reasonable to believe that the new "Training Groups" can train pilots for skill in these indivdual skill areas. And, once done training, dump a bunch of newly trained carrier divebomber pilots (for example) into the Reserve Pool. In my mind, this is a significant step forward for managing pilots.

Kurt


That's my point, what's to prevent getting a good bomber pilot when filling out a fighter group or that fighter ace you sent to training command showing up as a transport pilot when you get a replacement pilot?


Pilots are sorted by type. A bomber pilot will return to a bomber unit once designated as a "named" Bomber pilot.




TheElf -> RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command (7/23/2009 8:06:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152

I'm some what suprised the option to select a pilot when getting a pilot replacement wasn't implemented, I always throught it was odd that you can get an ace when getting a replacement for a Glen then have to settle with average pilot when filling out your carrier air groups! All the training in the world doesn't mean anything if you can't get the best pilots for your carrier air groups.[8|]


Right now there is no capability to specify a specific pilot as a replacement.




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