COG:EE questions. (Full Version)

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sapper_astro -> COG:EE questions. (6/15/2009 5:25:59 PM)

Hello all,

I wish to ask a few questions about this game.

A) How is the AI rated in this game? Strategic, Tactical, Naval battles, Economic. Also, how would you rate it in comparison to the originals? What, if any, are its downfalls?

B) Regarding the Economic models. There is the full version. What does the simple version have? Does it use all the same calculations as the full version except it is automated and run like the AI economies? Or are parts entirely cut out? What parts are still available for tweaking by the player in the simple model? How does it work overall?

Joram -> RE: COG:EE questions. (6/15/2009 6:37:11 PM)

I'm not going to answer A as being a tester it is hard to rate fairly, or at least be perceived to rate fairly. :)

B) The simple version has only money and labour and the rest are cut out completely so no, there is no behind-the-scenes activity based on the advanced economy. All the costs in the simple economy have been specifically resized to balance the game for it so you can't play advanced and see the money cost for an infantry unit for example and then expect it to be the exact same in the simple economy as it all has been retooled.
As I said, only money and labor are used and you only have a few levers to play with such as merchants, optimizing supply and replacement rates. And lending which works the same way in both versions.
I prefer simple version of the economy because I like to focus on the military side of it and with simple economy you can do that, however, with still some limitations on what you can do based on the size of your economy.

arras -> RE: COG:EE questions. (6/15/2009 9:50:39 PM)

AI is doing well compared to other similar games. Its not perfect but certainly up to standard.

It plays quit well strategically, can handle diplomacy fairly. However it sometimes tend to start more wars than it can handle. I saw AI fighting two opponents while declaring war on another in clearly hopples situation.

It does not handle trade too well and gets subsidized with extra money from game (even on normal difficulty) to be able to handle its economy ...well, if you can call it like that since up to my experience it simply keep labor deployment at preset levels without regard of region strong and weak points (I suspect AI gets subsidized by resources as well or is favored when building units in some other way) and builds development here and there. This is enough to allow it to build and maintain army big enough to be of challenge to player. It however tends to break if you play scenario longer than intended since AI sometimes end up with huge armies it clearly would have no chance to sustain if subjected to same economic rules as player. While whole (detailed) economy system is well modeled, it seems it was build for player not for AI :)

As for detailed naval combat I do not have too much experience, but AI have some serious problems managing and deploying its fleets it seems. It tends to build ships but strangely it doesn't fill its fleets with them. For example if English fleets gets teared in the process of war it retires them for the rest of the game while at the same time building and maintaining dozens ships through its provinces ...without attempt to reform scattered fleets and sending them to sea. You can sail strait for England and invade it if you want without English AI doing something with all its idle ships to oppose you. I also did not noticed AI to ever build new fleet.

As for detailed land battles, AI can fight but doesn't expect miracles from it. It seems to deploy its units piecemeal, attacking you individually without its units giving support to each other. I newer saw AI deploying in to some kind of formation. Sometimes I see enemy units idle, facing one direction while been pounded from flank or rear. For what ever reason such units stays still (maybe resting?) it doesn't seems to be smart enough at last to turn to face your fire. Another thing you can notice is that it always withdraw its disorganized cavalry units to rest and reform to one corner ...always the same one and without regards to own or yours positions. Player can easily exploit it by sending unit or two there and make sure those cavalry newer reforms and fight you again.
This sad, AI can beat you good if it have superior numbers or superior morale but with some experience you can expect always to beat it on at last bit equal terms.

All this written, this game AI is in better standard of contemporary strategic and tactical games (AI of Gary Grigsbys games is pitiful for example such extend that I would not call it Intelligence at all, just AS - Artificial Scripts) but if you want AI which can present you some challenge you have to play electronic chess :)

sapper_astro -> RE: COG:EE questions. (6/16/2009 3:15:46 AM)

What can I say? Excellent posts with plenty of information. Since I am no computer Napoleon, the AI sounds ok. The only thing that worries me a little is the fleet business, perhaps the devs could respond to this and what measures are being taken?

arras -> RE: COG:EE questions. (6/16/2009 9:06:21 AM)

Well some other player was already reporting the same behaviour of Britain but I don't remember who and can't find that post. Since most of the time you fight on land it is not such a great issue but I agree, would be nice to improve AI naval handling a little bit.

Bye the way, other countries also doesn't seems to refill its fleets with ships, it is not just Britain.

Joram -> RE: COG:EE questions. (6/16/2009 9:15:40 AM)

Regarding the naval behaviour, can you confirm if that's SOL's or frigates?  Frigates I do not believe follow the same fleet behaviour as SOLs so I wouldn't necessarily expect to see them refill a container as the AI likes to keep them out for anti-piracy.  You can't tell just by looking at the main map as multiple ships in one place default to the 1st-2nd rate icon.  See if you can inspect them to see what type it is and I'd bet they are frigates.

arras -> RE: COG:EE questions. (6/16/2009 10:58:59 AM)

Ships of the line and frigates alike. I looked at province details.

Dab -> RE: COG:EE questions. (6/16/2009 4:17:24 PM)

The same problem with loose ships not being put into fleets existed in the original COG.

Joram -> RE: COG:EE questions. (6/16/2009 5:44:00 PM)

So, no one claims the AI is perfect, far from it but I do think you will find agreement that it is pretty challenging on whole. I too have little things I'd like to see improved yet the naval example is a first for me.
Arras, if you feel strongly that there is an issue it would be very helpful if you started a new thread (so as not to completely derail this one) with at least a save game attached if not screenshots as well. I can say I haven't seen your particular complaint before.

arras -> RE: COG:EE questions. (6/16/2009 6:11:13 PM)

Well, unfortunately I use to save my game always in to the same slot so I don't know if I can really dig up screenshot or save, If I manage to find one I'll do. Lately I was also not playing game for a while. But really it was already reported in some post by somebody else ...I'll try to find it.

06 Maestro -> RE: COG:EE questions. (6/16/2009 7:22:43 PM)


I have found the AI quite challenging. Sometimes its actions in the political realm would make you think you are playing a rather crafty human. It is not always so smart, but good on average.

The tactical battles have a huge amount of variables aside from the actual numbers of the combatants. The ai is capable of winning a tactical fight if it has some decent advantages-especially when you are still a rookie. There are settings to adjust difficulty for when it starts to become too easy for you.

Regarding the naval naval issues-the English fleet may hole up after a fight, but you will most likely find find that it does not matter if you were the one that just fought it. The British Navy has a tendency to destroy any comers-I have been wiped out repeatedly by it.

The quality of the ai in this game is quite good. Of course, playing against a competent human should be more challenging-but it will take a lot longer to finish a game.

ericbabe -> RE: COG:EE questions. (6/18/2009 6:56:30 PM)

We did adjust the repair rate for ships which I think will have an effect on the AI's restocking of its fleets.  AI fleets spent too much time sitting in port in the 1.0 version of the game since it took so long to repair ships.  The beta testers are saying that they haven't seen fleet problems with the latest versions of the game, but we continue to collect data on this.

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