Role playing? (Full Version)

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stljeffbb -> Role playing? (6/15/2009 2:58:09 AM)

Hello everyone...I've recently gotten back into gaming, and I noticed that a new version of WitP was being released!

I was a grizzled veteran of the now ancient Grigsby's Pacific War, but I have to admit I never got too deep into WitP....

To cut to the chase, in PacWar, one could assume control of just one HQ and guide it....it this possible with AE? Could one conceivably follow a certain general/admiral as they move around within the game? If so, could orders be trumped by a "higher AI?"

I've always been interested in "what ifs"....silly things like Japan invading the mainland of the USA and Japan defeating all of China....how are these things going to be in AE? I recall reading some WitP threads about certain strategies that seemed to work very well in invading Canada (lol)...will partisian units show up (like "Billy Bob's 10278th militia brigade" [all armed with .22s or something similar]) [sm=00000055.gif]

Regards,

Jeff




Oldguard1970 -> RE: Role playing? (6/15/2009 12:55:19 PM)

Hi Jeff,

In WITP you can enjoy following a leader, or a pilot, or a ship.  However, the game does not let you assume control of just one subordinate HQ while the computer does everything else.  The game does have a feature to let the players turn control of regions over to the computer, but writers in the forum report all sorts of wierd things happen when the computer has partial control.




Yamato hugger -> RE: Role playing? (6/15/2009 2:23:18 PM)

PacWar was one of my all time favorite games. Frankly I would still prefer it to WitP if it wasnt for the "naval hiway" system for ship movement in that game. That and that alone is why I think WitP is superior to it.

As for turning control over to the computer. Bad idea. The computer does some really stupid stuff with your forces. Especially the allies, might not be as bad for Japan. The computer will form a TF at San Fran and sail it direct to Manila for example right through the teeth of the Japanese navy. Since the Japs are on interior lines, it probably wouldnt make as many of these glaring errors.




olivier_slith -> RE: Role playing? (6/15/2009 2:50:38 PM)

What do you call "naval highway?"




Yamato hugger -> RE: Role playing? (6/15/2009 2:56:34 PM)

Well if you have ever played PacWar, you'd know what I was talking about [;)]

Rather than selecting hexes to move to, you select a base (same for ground units). Base to base movement only and depending on what base you are moving from and to will determine which "hiway" you take to get there. So you line up your subs on these hiways. Course this works in reverse as well. If you know a certain hiway is littered with subs, you send your ASW groups along them back and forth.

The really nice thing about PacWar is it is weekly turns, so you can actually play a game in your lifetime [:D]




Andy Mac -> RE: Role playing? (6/15/2009 4:22:48 PM)

The regional subordinate commands are no longer available the new makes it not possible to turn them over to Ai command even if you wanted to




Yamato hugger -> RE: Role playing? (6/15/2009 4:34:44 PM)

Didnt even occur to me he was talking about AE. I was thinking WitP. Andy is correct. AE isnt for the meek [:D]




stljeffbb -> RE: Role playing? (6/16/2009 1:10:46 AM)

Wow! So if I am hearing this right, one must micromanage the entire Japanese or Allied side when playing this game (WitP...let alone AE)!?! That is A LOT of micro management!

Sounds cool but perhaps a bit ahistoric? Does the game deal with the internal strife between the Japanese Army and Navy, let alone to a lesser extent the allies?

Do NOT get me wrong, I am definitely not flaming here...just wondering...playing as a side sounds very god-like, but, with that much unified command, I can imagine the AI needed to be trained with some new tricks.

[sm=sterb029.gif]

...I suppose someone could mod partisan units if wanted, eh? ;)

Thanks for the replies!

Jeff




Nomad -> RE: Role playing? (6/16/2009 2:35:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Well if you have ever played PacWar, you'd know what I was talking about [;)]

Rather than selecting hexes to move to, you select a base (same for ground units). Base to base movement only and depending on what base you are moving from and to will determine which "hiway" you take to get there. So you line up your subs on these hiways. Course this works in reverse as well. If you know a certain hiway is littered with subs, you send your ASW groups along them back and forth.

The really nice thing about PacWar is it is weekly turns, so you can actually play a game in your lifetime [:D]


I thought one of the upgrades ( version 3.2? ) changed this and the TFs were a lot more random.




Bladesss -> RE: Role playing? (6/16/2009 1:04:22 PM)

I dont have info on AE, but you can so some of what your asking in WITP.
The map is divided into about 8 regions, that roughly corrispond to the major commands. If you dont want to play the entire side, you can let the AI play any of the regions you dont want.
Seperately, in a region that you let the AI control, you can select individual bases and make then human controled.
You can then keep some of the units you want, and let the AI resume control of others.
So you can take control of just one HQ and its assets and bases.

I am playing a game where I only wanted to focus on India/Burma, and did not want the depressing defence of Malaysa. So I made the region AI controled, but made all the Allied bases in India and Burma Human, leaving the AI to control Malaysa. This way, it is not my fault that the AI Japs, captured the southern half of Hawaii on 12/9/41. (RHS)

I have very rarely seen one problem, doing this. A human controled land unit ordered from one human controled base, to another human controled base, sometimes gets it orders changed by the AI when it travels though empty (AI controled) hexes.




olivier_slith -> RE: Role playing? (6/16/2009 2:16:00 PM)

Yes, I did that, but I don't see what's wrong with it. Subs used to stalk ships in places they knew ships went through and ASW ships swept those areas too. I've played dozens of full campaigns with PW but barely 2 with WiTP (micromanagement kills it for me). The only thing that really I did not like in PW (and also in WiTP) is that there is no interception outside of bases. Now I think I read that it will occur in AE, and that thing makes it worth it for me to get AE despite over-micromanagement. In fact, I wish I just could have PW with updated graphics....dreams...




DivePac88 -> RE: Role playing? (6/16/2009 2:28:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: stljeffbb

Wow! So if I am hearing this right, one must micromanage the entire Japanese or Allied side when playing this game (WitP...let alone AE)!?! That is A LOT of micro management!




Yeh cool Isnít it, the more micro-management the better. [:'(]




stljeffbb -> RE: Role playing? (6/16/2009 7:03:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Well if you have ever played PacWar, you'd know what I was talking about [;)]

Rather than selecting hexes to move to, you select a base (same for ground units). Base to base movement only and depending on what base you are moving from and to will determine which "hiway" you take to get there. So you line up your subs on these hiways. Course this works in reverse as well. If you know a certain hiway is littered with subs, you send your ASW groups along them back and forth.

The really nice thing about PacWar is it is weekly turns, so you can actually play a game in your lifetime [:D]


I thought one of the upgrades ( version 3.2? ) changed this and the TFs were a lot more random.


I seem to recall this as well...the AI was not bad, but if the human got too "gamey" it was rather easy to beat....I played a few PBEM games back in 1996 and had a great time....

If I read Andy Mac's message correctly (btw enjoying your AE AAR!), "The regional subordinate commands are no longer available the new makes it not possible to turn them over to Ai command even if you wanted to" I assume that these regional commands are not an option in AE..am I reading this correctly?

Regards,

Jeff




Andy Mac -> RE: Role playing? (6/16/2009 7:31:34 PM)

Yes thats correct the new AI processor made it impossible




Chad Harrison -> RE: Role playing? (6/17/2009 5:41:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: stljeffbb

Wow! So if I am hearing this right, one must micromanage the entire Japanese or Allied side when playing this game (WitP...let alone AE)!?! That is A LOT of micro management!



If there is anything that I have learned about WitP, let alone AE, is that it is not for everyone. For me, the ability to micro-manage in WitP is why I keep coming back for more. Doubling the ability to do so in AE is why I am coming back for more. WitP and/or AE is *not* the game for people who want a quick fix.

That is why it is so unique, and stands out without comparison in my book.




stljeffbb -> RE: Role playing? (6/18/2009 5:34:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison


quote:

ORIGINAL: stljeffbb

Wow! So if I am hearing this right, one must micromanage the entire Japanese or Allied side when playing this game (WitP...let alone AE)!?! That is A LOT of micro management!






If there is anything that I have learned about WitP, let alone AE, is that it is not for everyone. For me, the ability to micro-manage in WitP is why I keep coming back for more. Doubling the ability to do so in AE is why I am coming back for more. WitP and/or AE is *not* the game for people who want a quick fix.

That is why it is so unique, and stands out without comparison in my book.


Thanks very much for your reply Chad Harrison! Well, I must admit some of the options (being able to upgrade ships...I suppose I'm a bit of a JFB and would love to upgrade every Japanese Maru to a CV lol) interest me very much...and I can deal with micro-managing if it is worth it....but I must admit, I have to micromanage quite a bit in my job now-a-days, and micro-managing, I think, does not interest me as much as it used to when I was a wee bit younger (like with PacWar)...

I mean, do we play games like this because we want to control something? Do we project ourselves into this game world with the idea that we are the masters of what we see? Do "old stlye" grognard games like this actually help our imagination because we have to "connect the dots" a little bit?

With the above said, I also wonder (and I suppose I should do a search on this), if, since the game will seemingly go to 1946, is there a chance we will see the J9Y Kikka? I remember doing a little modding quite a few years ago with WitP to put the Kikka in the game, going so far as to making the little pics.....just an idle question and a little OT (sorry)

Regards,

Jeff

EDIT: HA! Just search Kikka the AE Expansion forum and one will see an Andy Mac AAR with Kikkas...cool! [8D]




steveh11Matrix -> RE: Role playing? (6/18/2009 10:43:16 AM)

Having read that I can't set the ai to play all-but-one region of the map, I gulped. Hard. Thanks goodness for 'smaller' scenarios and better ai control of things like patrols... [;)]

I'm going to miss the ability to play, for example, the SouthWest region only at first, gradually widening my control. It was both a good way of easing myself into the game and of roleplaying a widening of responsibilities.

But I must be a masochist, 'cos I'm still looking forward to trying!

Steve.




Chad Harrison -> RE: Role playing? (6/18/2009 1:38:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: stljeffbb

I mean, do we play games like this because we want to control something? Do we project ourselves into this game world with the idea that we are the masters of what we see? Do "old stlye" grognard games like this actually help our imagination because we have to "connect the dots" a little bit?



For me atleast, I do think so. Its fun for me to have to worry about all the supply, transport, combat, air missions and so on. If any of that was abstracted in the game, it would loose a lot of its appeal in my book.

Like I said above, thats why WitP, let alone AE, stands without peer.




rhohltjr -> RE: Role playing? (6/18/2009 2:21:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac
Yes thats correct the new AI processor made it impossible


Are computer vs computer games still possible? The new AI processor able to handle
the global lot but not regional commands? I don't know, and never tried AI programming[:'(].
I relied on the AI for command of N.Pacific China/Russia and India. I need to think about this.....[sm=sad-1361.gif]




treespider -> RE: Role playing? (6/18/2009 2:37:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rhohltjr

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac
Yes thats correct the new AI processor made it impossible


Are computer vs computer games still possible? The new AI processor able to handle
the global lot but not regional commands? I don't know, and never tried AI programming[:'(].
I relied on the AI for command of N.Pacific China/Russia and India. I need to think about this.....[sm=sad-1361.gif]




Yes Computer v Computer is possible.

The reason regional control is no longer an option is that the AI is built upon a number of scripts...somewhere over 1000 separte ones ( I may be low on this number).

Some of these scripts straddle multiple regions.

And some scripts get activated depending on the players actions and other stimulus in other regions.

It would have been too difficult to try and develop a system that told only certain scripts to function depending on which map regions a player wanted to control. This would likely have involved developing separate scripts for every possible combination of regional selection by the player... this would have caused AE to be released sometime next century.




Kull -> RE: Role playing? (6/21/2009 7:31:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider

Yes Computer v Computer is possible.

The reason regional control is no longer an option is that the AI is built upon a number of scripts...somewhere over 1000 separte ones ( I may be low on this number).

Some of these scripts straddle multiple regions.

And some scripts get activated depending on the players actions and other stimulus in other regions.

It would have been too difficult to try and develop a system that told only certain scripts to function depending on which map regions a player wanted to control. This would likely have involved developing separate scripts for every possible combination of regional selection by the player... this would have caused AE to be released sometime next century.


That makes sense. But, technically speaking, somebody with no life and a LOT of spare time on their hands could develop an entire set of purely regional scripts. Or at least review all the existing ones and edit those that impinge on the desired human-only areas such as China or India. But even then you'd still need the interface that allows for assignment of regions to human-or-AI control. And I'm guessing that's been pulled?




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