I love reading this thread (Full Version)

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madgamer2 -> I love reading this thread (4/24/2009 1:01:02 AM)

After very bad experiences with FoF and some passing strangeness with CoG I love all the little problems that happen in this deluxe version of the CoG sustem. ....Makes my whole day. I would not buy this game or even attempt to play it if given to me but I love the threads posted here thanks guys

Madgamer




Mus -> RE: I love reading this thread (4/24/2009 2:37:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: madgamer

I would not buy this game or even attempt to play it if given to me...


We cant all be born with good taste I guess.

I dont get why anyone would bother to read posts about a game they dont like (even though they havent played it, thats a weird one in and of itself) and then post a put down on a game they havent played.

Get a life.




madgamer2 -> RE: Did I say I didn't like it? (4/24/2009 3:00:00 AM)

The fault is as dirty harry says is "a man has got to know his limits". Being 68 it has taken me a number of years to know my own. It took a long time for me to understand just because you may love something does not mean that you are good at it.
I wanted to be able to play games such as FoF and CoG but I just can't. I will not go into a long embarrassing explanation of why because it is a bit personal and involves a rather strange kind of learning disability.
If I could not grasp FoF and the brief two game shot at CoG I know this game is to much for me to handle. I did not mean to step on anyone's toes and I really admire players who can actually sit down and play and understand and enjoy a game like this or my favorite WitP. For me it is frustrating, difficult and if I tried PBEM it would be embarrassing as well. I can barely keep up with the AI in WitP or AACW (SIGH) even after I read the manual to the point of almost knowing it by heart. It has to do with the way my brain works or doesn't work and not being able to play complex production/economic games well. So I play games at the easy level against the computer and sometimes I manage to win.
So to all you really good players ....I would give almost anything to be able to PBEM so I could try the computer WIE that I just bought. I figure I will get about 3 games in the lost column before it gets around that Ya want to play some one easy well here I am....meanwhile I can at least enjoy the forum even if I do not understand most of it.

Madgamer




gexmex -> RE: I love reading this thread (4/24/2009 3:00:25 AM)

what is this new deluxe cog "sustem" I wonder? [8|] 



+7000 to Mus






madgamer2 -> RE: I love reading this thread (4/24/2009 3:10:23 AM)

sorry its my own title given to the tactical game in this game.  It does look nice and for the most part the players seem to like it if your into tactical battles in strategic games which I am not.  I did not mean to get your hopes up.

Madgamer




ptan54 -> RE: I love reading this thread (4/24/2009 3:32:41 AM)

This thread has just made my day. WTF man....




madgamer2 -> RE: I love reading this thread (4/24/2009 4:09:45 AM)

harsh? I would use a more.....explicative term but would not want to offend. I am just the kid looking in the toy store window wishing he could go in....neverbmind its late ....... I'll just sit quietly in the corner and listen and read and maybe learn something I did not know before.

I mean what do you do when you want to do something so bad that you would give almost anything but due to a ...lets call it a connection problem in the brain ...
you just can't get it done no matter how many times you are told"Just keep at it dude it will happen".....well in real life there is not always a happy ending just another game to put on the shelf with the others (SIGH)

Madgamer




MorningDew -> RE: I love reading this thread (4/24/2009 4:28:20 AM)

Revised after understanding better...thanks ShaiHulud and 06 Mastro and sorry that I misunderstood madgamer.




ShaiHulud -> RE: I love reading this thread (4/24/2009 6:30:59 AM)

Jeez, people, cut the guy a little slack, eh? The only thing he's been critical about is himself.




06 Maestro -> RE: I love reading this thread (4/24/2009 6:48:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaiHulud

Jeez, people, cut the guy a little slack, eh? The only thing he's been critical about is himself.


Ditto




Gil R. -> RE: I love reading this thread (4/24/2009 7:13:24 AM)

ShaiHulud and 06 Maestro appear to be right. While the first post in this thread was phrased in such a way as to make it seem an attack on COG:EE and FOF, madgamer's other posts clarify that wasn't his intent. His posts about FOF from back when he was playing it were mostly positive, in fact.

Madgamer, I'm not sure which types of games you feel you can and cannot play, but at least one of our future products might be more accessible. Stay tuned...




MorningDew -> RE: I love reading this thread (4/24/2009 11:49:57 AM)

quote:

ShaiHulud and 06 Maestro appear to be right.


Revised my comments and I want to apologize to madgamer for misunderstanding his point. Sorry[sm=dizzy.gif]




IronWarrior -> RE: I love reading this thread (4/24/2009 12:55:16 PM)

Well no offense madgamer, but i guess i was brought up believing that winning isn't everything. You really should give it a chance, ask questions.. there are plenty of people that will be glad to try and help you.

I can't really relate to the "embarassment" sentiments, I'm taking a good whoppin' in the 1796 pbem, but it actually makes me even more interested and drives me to try and meet the challenge. The other pbem I stepped in for another player and had no idea what to expect. I feel like people get to hung up on "winning" or "losing". This game is much more than that. I sure hope the developers don't dumb down future releases of these great games.

Keep in mind that as much as I dream of it happening, there are no tactical battles in pbem.

Sorry if I misunderstand the point, but there aren't many specifics to go by.




Joshuatree -> RE: Did I say I didn't like it? (4/24/2009 2:45:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: madgamer

The fault is as dirty harry says is "a man has got to know his limits". Being 68 it has taken me a number of years to know my own. It took a long time for me to understand just because you may love something does not mean that you are good at it.
I wanted to be able to play games such as FoF and CoG but I just can't. I will not go into a long embarrassing explanation of why because it is a bit personal and involves a rather strange kind of learning disability.
If I could not grasp FoF and the brief two game shot at CoG I know this game is to much for me to handle. I did not mean to step on anyone's toes and I really admire players who can actually sit down and play and understand and enjoy a game like this or my favorite WitP. For me it is frustrating, difficult and if I tried PBEM it would be embarrassing as well. I can barely keep up with the AI in WitP or AACW (SIGH) even after I read the manual to the point of almost knowing it by heart. It has to do with the way my brain works or doesn't work and not being able to play complex production/economic games well. So I play games at the easy level against the computer and sometimes I manage to win.
So to all you really good players ....I would give almost anything to be able to PBEM so I could try the computer WIE that I just bought. I figure I will get about 3 games in the lost column before it gets around that Ya want to play some one easy well here I am....meanwhile I can at least enjoy the forum even if I do not understand most of it.

Madgamer


Interesting, but what kind of games *do* you enjoy then, if you don't mind me asking?




gexmex -> RE: Did I say I didn't like it? (4/24/2009 3:35:17 PM)

yes, I apologize too [8|]




Anthropoid -> RE: Did I say I didn't like it? (4/25/2009 5:12:30 AM)

I know the feeling Madgamer. I _LOVE_ probability and statistics, but I have virtually no natural ability at it. Nonetheless I teach it, and I get better all the time.

I have a bit more natural ability at computer games (the pretty maps, and pictures, and names and stuff helps [:D]) but even there I have found that (despite my high level of education) I often cannot pick things up as fast as other players seem to. In my experience, if I prepare enough, I can overcome that. It makes gaming a bit like studying, or work, but when you succeed it is even more fun than when you succeed at work. After all, work is lame.

Keep trying, you'll get better. One of the tricks I used to get my game up in Civ was to 'cheat,' i.e., replay turns to see what would happen if you tried a slightly different tactic. It can be tedious, but it shows you upclose what works and what doesn't and it builds intuition about what to do and what not to do. Pretty soon I was sweeping PBEMs, beating the AI on "Emperor" and playing like I was one of those 20 year old computer-born whiz kids!

As someone who teaches, I am convinced: if you can understand that you want to learn something, then with the properly applied effort, in the right direction, with enough repetitions, you CAN learn it. It may not become second nature, but you can be there at least for a while, as long as you stay in practice.




madgamer2 -> RE: Did I say I didn't like it? (4/26/2009 1:23:58 AM)

Well....I still play the big three Civil war game by Matrix and and AACW in short bursts as that map gives ne headaches. I have to resign my self to playing games against the AI that everybody and his brother can beat hands down like WitP. To me the fun is the playing and if I do not do well it does not matter that much. Oddly enough I did better with GGCW because the economic model is not as complex as the other two games on the civil war. I like the old hex games by John Tiller even if the AI is bad (I can even beat it)
Its just that there is so much to do in a turn Of WitP and i don't have the time or desire to devote the amount of time that some of these guys do to that game. I have other things going on in my my life like song writing and playing the guitar, writing stories.
I go back to the board hex games of which I have 75 or so that I am selling to noble Knight games as soon as I finish checking the counter mix for WIE I will be done for the most part. WIE was a system I loved and a couple of old frioends and one new one talked me into buying then Computer War In Europe and we will be starting a game son. This is the first game I have ever PBEM but at least it is/was familiar. They have brought it up to speed from its form 20 or 30 years ago so I will have to play it alone for a few turns (both sides). I am a bit confused as the manual says it can olay the Russians in a 2 player Axis vs Allies game but I will figure it out when it arrives in a day or two.
I also like Oblivion and like games and I will in spite of myself buy AE even though I do not totally understand WitP and enjoy it but may not be that good at it. When a game becomes more work than fun I find it hard to go on with it.
The trend in newer computer is bigger,,,,,bigGER....BIGGER. HOI 1 had potential if they of cleaned it up a bit but no they have to release a second and now a third version with so many new "improvements" it will not be on my game shelf even HOI 1 still is even on the easy level. Its the demands of the younger gasming buyers that tend to set trends in computer or board gaming. Now that we have the computer potential to design some very realistic games at the expense of playability it will be done if the playing public demands it.
WitP is on of the few that has been around sense 04 and still has and will have a large fan base, and after AE (whenever that may be) it will grow even more. As for me I will just struggle along and get whatever enjoyment I can.

Madgamer

Madgamer




madgamer2 -> RE: I love reading this thread (4/26/2009 2:17:42 AM)

Well Gil I still play the games but I know now what I did not admit to myself. I play them for the fun of it. It is not the fault of Say WitP that I lack the ability to think more than a turn or two ahead, have less than average organizing skills, and have very little conception of where I am or where I want to go. The AI in WitP is about all I can deal with but its fun.
I see that as computer science and programing advance so does our ability to create complex and realistic computer models. Being old (68) I wonder where computer games will be in 10 years or 15 years. In the old Apple 8K RAM days we wanted they kind of games we have now and I can only guess what kind of emails or ideas you have seen just for AE alone must have been.
I think that buying up the rights for a game like WIR putting it on the computer and indeed letting the computer be the desktop and bring up the gqame to speed rules wise might be a direction to go. Just think if some company got there hands on the Europa system with the computer doing the book work and such it might be bigger that the WIR thing or it might be a big flop we shall see.

Madgamer




madgamer2 -> RE: I love reading this thread (4/26/2009 2:35:59 AM)

the very fact that I could not express my point so others could understand is exactly my point and part of my problem. My problems in playing complex games such as WitP don't stem from a lack of intelligence. It stems from being a right hand brain dominant and having been taught to write right handed insted of left handed but in the 40's they did not allow left handed writing.
It comes down to a lack of reading and writing ability which is the basis of learning. I have improved my reading skill a great deal but My brain still has problems in dealing with the information it gets and my thoughts are difficult for me to put into a physical form such as writing or playing a game like WitP. It like ZI know I have the ability in my head but can't get it any further because of comunication skills that don't quite make it.
Wining.....loosing? yeah your right. I just olay for the fun of it but it does get to me once in awhile that due to no fault of my own I can't get go any farther than a certain point...so I just play. I am going to have a PBEM game with the computer War in Europe with a friend so we will see.

Madgamer




Gil R. -> RE: I love reading this thread (4/26/2009 2:56:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: madgamer
It stems from being a right hand brain dominant and having been taught to write right handed insted of left handed but in the 40's they did not allow left handed writing.


I've heard about that practice. Mind-boggling that they used to do that.

Your comment reminds me of something I hadn't thought of in years: back around 1986 or 1987, just two years before he died, I got Yankees great Lefty Gomez* to sign a baseball for me at a cards and autographs show -- and he signed it with his RIGHT hand! Rather surprised, I asked him about it, and he explained that he had been forced to write with his right hand when he was growing up. Obviously, he had a pretty good left arm, since it got him to the Hall of Fame...

* I add the phrase "Yankees great" for our European customers, who can't be expected to know what a Lefty Gomez is.




Joshuatree -> RE: I love reading this thread (4/26/2009 12:50:24 PM)

Thanks for answering my question madgamer, reason I asked is because us "gamers" aren't getting any younger [:)] Most of us are past their 30-40's or even older. And that means the game developers have to take into account that at least a part of the community they develop games for... aren't as fast as they used to be, maybe have problems with their eyesight, well all the problems you seem to get when you're getting older. "We" don't play fast paced games anymore, we like it slow [;)]
Now this is a first in history, pc games have been around for say, thirty years? So now there emerges a new class of pc gamers, the very experienced seasoned veteran players.... and what kind of games do they still *like and play?*
Well I don't know, what I do know is that game developers have a task at their hands and a job to do, because there is an emerging market for it because there will be more and more, uhm, older gamers.




adamc6 -> RE: I love reading this thread (4/28/2009 2:48:43 AM)

Joshuatree: "uhm, older gamers. "

I think you meant "Luddlite gamers."

(Sorry madgamer, I always work in Luddite references whenever I can. My 4 year old sets the VCR for me, no TIVO -- I'm on my way to feeling your pain.)

Madgamer -- I do find some nuances of this game hard on my brain as well -- not sure what it is....hard to make connections on cause and effect .... I guess that's the best way to describe some of my struggles.

On the other hand, you play WITP and don't find that to "hurt the brain?" That one eats me up.

Good luck in finding enjoyable games that appeal to you -- happy gaming!

AC





madgamer2 -> RE: I love reading this thread (4/28/2009 3:12:27 AM)

Well getting older and wanting a different type of game one that is slower and does not tax the brain to much is a category WitP fits into. No one says you have to play fast, you can play a series of turns over again several. AACW has a feature that lets you turn the game back to the previous turn or several turns without rebooting.
When you reach 68 like me your income is the limiting factor. They will continue to develop and produce games fort the younger players because they have to money and if us old guys are lucky they will throw us a bone now and then.
I have a love for the old WIE game but never had the space to set it up and tried it once in a guys basement with six guys 2 Allied 2 German, 2 Russian. I found a player and now a friend who is going to play a PBEM game of the new computer WIE. this will be my first PBEM and I will most likely loose due to having no experience in PBEM. The games do tax my brain and AACW gives me headaches due to that dam map after about 2 hours. and they are up to 1.25 or something for patch's.
What I feer is AE will, in spite of its many improvements may just be more work than fun and when that happens ...well its on to something else.(SIGH)

Madgamer




Zap -> RE: I love reading this thread (4/28/2009 8:17:53 PM)

As far as your brains hotwiring nothing to be ashamed about. We all have are limitations. One that bugs me is transmitting my thoughts to conversation. There are times when that transmission gets tounge tied on the way out.




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