RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (Full Version)

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Yamato hugger -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/11/2009 1:28:08 AM)

My guess would be you had auto-subs set to yes. Thats the default on it (dont ask me why).




Yamato hugger -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/11/2009 1:37:40 AM)

Well, the turn is finally over (about 14 hours worth) and its back in the hands of the allies. According to a thread in the devs forum (on number of torpedoes used at Pearl in the real attack (40) vs the games first strike (63) I got 4 BBs at Pearl and the rest need new paint). Kind of makes up for not hitting Force Z.

Have some surprises in store for him this time. Last game I didnt really spend a lot of time on trying to form up my "standard" WitP task groups, and I really spent no time at all looking at my planes and garrison troops in China. This time I did both those things.

So rather than coming into Borneo and Mindanao with a 2 ship TF covering force I will be heading in with 3 BB divisions. Paras were hosed in the other version, couldnt drop until we upgraded to a later version, this time I can drop from the outset. And I will.

KB has divided into 6 TFs (3 carrier groups of 2 each and 3 bait groups) and they are moving west. 1 of my minis survived the day, so I am sending it back into Pearl also. Not sure if it will strike today or tomorrow. Probably wont do anything, but never know. There are a lot of cripples in there that are teetering [;)]




Grotius -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/11/2009 3:12:57 AM)

YH, is KB all in the same hex? 5 TFs following a 6th?

quote:

There are three general types of transport/cargo ships:


Don, this sounds like a big improvement over stock. Thanks for the info.




witpqs -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/11/2009 3:17:52 AM)

What exactly do the 'bait' KB TF's look like?




Yamato hugger -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/11/2009 3:52:48 AM)

Well, right now they havent moved yet, so its a big red ball. The carriers will spread out 1 hex abreast and move west. A DD force will move west in front of them. Another heads north west towards Japan, and the 3rd SW to Kwajalein. One of them should make contact with at least 1 of his carriers. Or so the plan goes.




Monter_Trismegistos -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/11/2009 3:25:30 PM)

Do you have part of combat report showing minisubs operations?




Yamato hugger -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/11/2009 3:38:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Monter_Trismegistos

Do you have part of combat report showing minisubs operations?


Well theres this from the combat events log:
COMBAT EVENTS FOR 12/07/41

I-16 launches midget submarine Ha-22 to attack Pearl Harbor
SSX Ha-22 hits a mine and is destroyed at Pearl Harbor
I-18 launches midget submarine Ha-24 to attack Pearl Harbor
SSX Ha-24 penetrates harbor at Pearl Harbor!!!
SSX Ha-24 settles to bottom of harbor at Pearl Harbor and is lost
I am guessing this line went to the log after the attack
I-20 launches midget submarine Ha-14 to attack Pearl Harbor
Midget Submarine Ha-14 becomes lost and returns to I-20
I-22 launches midget submarine Ha-18 to attack Pearl Harbor
SSX Ha-18 founders and is lost attempting to penetrate harbor at Pearl Harbor
I-24 launches midget submarine Ha-19 to attack Pearl Harbor
SSX Ha-19 unable to penetrate harbor at Pearl Harbor and is abandoned


And this from the combatreport:
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 07, 41

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Midget Sub attack inside harbor of Pearl Harbor!!!

Japanese Ships
SSX Ha-24

Allied Ships
DM Sicard
BB Nevada, Torpedo hits 1
AM Bobolink





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Midget Sub attack inside harbor of Pearl Harbor!!!

Japanese Ships
SSX Ha-24, hits 2

Allied Ships
DM Sicard
BB Arizona
AM Bobolink





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Midget Sub attack inside harbor of Pearl Harbor!!!

Japanese Ships
SSX Ha-24, hits 6, heavy damage

Allied Ships
PC Taney





Chad Harrison -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/11/2009 4:19:56 PM)

Thats just plain cool! Thanks for posting that.




pad152 -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/11/2009 6:04:33 PM)

The Combat Event Log, is most unclear, lost seems to have different meanings, (lost - has in lost it's way, and/or missing and/or lost -  as in sunk!).

How did SSX Ha-24 attack if it was lost or sunk?

SSX Ha-24 settles to bottom of harbor at Pearl Harbor and is lost
Which is it? , lost it's way or missing and/or sunk?

How about
SSX Ha-24 settles to bottom of harbor at Pearl Harbor and is Sunk!

and/or

SSX Ha-24 settles to bottom of harbor at Pearl Harbor and is Missing!

 




jjax -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/11/2009 6:14:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Japanese Ships
SSX Ha-24, hits 6, heavy damage




Talking about the log, I'm assuming that the sub didnt hit 6 ships. So "hits 6" should be "6 hits" or "hits: 6". That should make things a little clearer.

If it does mean that the sub made 6 hits then i [&o].





Yamato hugger -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/11/2009 6:23:36 PM)

Its like any other "hits" on a combat report. 6 hits on the sub.




Charbroiled -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/11/2009 6:26:06 PM)

I'm pretty sure it means that the sub TOOK 6 hits...probably from Depth Charges.




jjax -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/11/2009 6:26:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Its like any other "hits" on a combat report. 6 hits on the sub.


I know...but im just being a picky grammar nut. It just does not read quite right.





Yamato hugger -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/11/2009 6:30:06 PM)

Ok, I will inform the guys that write the code to make sure the grammar is correct. Look for AE around Christmas - off topic, I just opened a brand new on-line pitchfork shoppe for anyone interested [:D]




m10bob -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/11/2009 6:34:53 PM)

That report of the mini-subs is tremendous!..




pad152 -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/11/2009 7:22:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Ok, I will inform the guys that write the code to make sure the grammar is correct. Look for AE around Christmas - off topic, I just opened a brand new on-line pitchfork shoppe for anyone interested [:D]


I'm not talking about grammer, I'm talking about meaning.

SSX Ha-24 settles to bottom of harbor at Pearl Harbor and is lost
Midget Submarine Ha-14 becomes lost and returns to I-20

Ha-24 got lost and was recovered by I-20 (didn't sink)?
Ha-14 got lost and what happened to it? (did it sink or not)?

There is a difference between missing and sunk! Just saying it is lost is unclear.

Is there a difference between SSX and Midget Submarine, (aren't both Midget subs)?




jjax -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/11/2009 7:24:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Ok, I will inform the guys that write the code to make sure the grammar is correct. Look for AE around Christmas - off topic, I just opened a brand new on-line pitchfork shoppe for anyone interested [:D]


I'm not talking about grammer, I'm talking about meaning.

SSX Ha-24 settles to bottom of harbor at Pearl Harbor and is lost
Midget Submarine Ha-14 becomes lost and returns to I-20

Ha-24 got lost and was recovered by I-20 (didn't sink)?
Ha-14 got lost and what happened to it? (did it sink or not)?

There is a difference between missing and sunk! Just saying it is lost is unclear.

Is there a difference between SSX and Midget Submarine, (aren't both Midget subs)?



That jab was aimed at me.




Don Bowen -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/11/2009 8:06:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Ok, I will inform the guys that write the code to make sure the grammar is correct. Look for AE around Christmas - off topic, I just opened a brand new on-line pitchfork shoppe for anyone interested [:D]


I'm not talking about grammer, I'm talking about meaning.

SSX Ha-24 settles to bottom of harbor at Pearl Harbor and is lost
Midget Submarine Ha-14 becomes lost and returns to I-20

Ha-24 got lost and was recovered by I-20 (didn't sink)?
Ha-14 got lost and what happened to it? (did it sink or not)?

There is a difference between missing and sunk! Just saying it is lost is unclear.

Is there a difference between SSX and Midget Submarine, (aren't both Midget subs)?



T'was clear to me. I guess it's just fog of war.





pad152 -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/11/2009 9:15:23 PM)

COMBAT EVENTS FOR 12/07/41

I-16 launches midget submarine Ha-22 to attack Pearl Harbor
SSX Ha-22 hits a mine and is destroyed at Pearl Harbor
I-18 launches midget submarine Ha-24 to attack Pearl Harbor
SSX Ha-24 penetrates harbor at Pearl Harbor!!!
SSX Ha-24 settles to bottom of harbor at Pearl Harbor and is lost
I am guessing this line went to the log after the attack
I-20 launches midget submarine Ha-14 to attack Pearl Harbor
Midget Submarine Ha-14 becomes lost and returns to I-20
I-22 launches midget submarine Ha-18 to attack Pearl Harbor
SSX Ha-18 founders and is lost attempting to penetrate harbor at Pearl Harbor
I-24 launches midget submarine Ha-19 to attack Pearl Harbor
SSX Ha-19 unable to penetrate harbor at Pearl Harbor and is abandoned


Why use (midget submarine, Midget Submarine, and SSX), pick one! That's not fog of war, just hard to read!






Yamato hugger -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/11/2009 9:18:30 PM)

Dec 8th. Lexington has been located!

A Dutch sub attacked the Kota Bharu landing force and ASW ships reported 10 hits on it, but no report of a sinking. Later in the day, this same boat was hit by ASW forces at Singora scoring 2 more hits in the afternoon. Another boat attacked the Singora force for no effect on either side.

I-20 hit a mine at Pearl launching its mini. The SSX failed to penetrate the harbor. I 20 has 38 sys 48 flt (35 of that major). Shes hurting and headed to Tokyo.

3 TBs patrolling south of Hong Kong reacted to enemy TFs in the harbor and engaged several. The first battle caught 4 of them and sank them all. The next one caught 2 more and left them both with heavy damage and heavy fires. The 3rd was 5, sank 1 heavy damage and fires on 2, and heavy fires on another. 1 of these was untouched.

2 fighter sweeps over Manila (22 a/c in the 1st and 6 in the 2nd) met 15 P-40Es and flammed 9 losing 1 Zero.

Bombers attacked the airfield and an AK in Hong Kong hitting the AK once causing heavy fires. This ship was not reported to have been hit previously by the TBs. Bettys returned in the afternoon to hit the airfield.

Sallys raid the airfield at Georgetown for no effect.

Sonias with Nate escort attack Chinese ground units west of Hangkow.

Lexington launched a strike at a pair of DDs 440 mi almost due east of Wake at a 1 hex range. They hit nothing but a school of fish in the morning and hit Ushio with a bomb and 2 torps in the afternoon sinking her. KB smells blood in the water and is ordered to move in at flank speed. These 2 DDs are part of the "bait force". They were the 2 that bombarded Midway.

3 Mabels attack an undamaged AK at Hong Kong scoring 3 hits and lighting heavy fires. 6 Anns and 4 Idas attack 2 more undamaged AKs and score 9 hits between them putting heavy damge and lighting heavy fires on both. 6 Sonias hit the AK that the TBs had missed earlier 3 times and the by now usual heavy damage and heavy fires.

90 twin engine bombers in 3 raids hit Taiping damaging the airfield. No aircraft losses.

Pengpu was taken from the 89th Chinese Corps by 13th Ind.Mixed Brigade at 170:1 odds.

56th Infantry Regiment forced FMSV Brigade and 8th Indian Brigade to retreat from Kota Bharu at 6:1

51st naval guard landed on and took Tarawa.

1st Yokosuka SNLF landed at and took Naga (airborne assault).

8 DC-2s were reported shot down over Hong Kong presumeably evaccing troops.




Dili -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/11/2009 9:30:27 PM)

If it is lost and don't say anything more means that the mother sub doesn't know what happened. If say it is lost and returned to the mother sub, means the midget couldn't find a way to the harbour. At least is how i understand it.

Btw is there a way to tweak results of midgets like giving better or worse values to its commanders?




Don Bowen -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/11/2009 10:04:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152

COMBAT EVENTS FOR 12/07/41

I-16 launches midget submarine Ha-22 to attack Pearl Harbor
SSX Ha-22 hits a mine and is destroyed at Pearl Harbor
I-18 launches midget submarine Ha-24 to attack Pearl Harbor
SSX Ha-24 penetrates harbor at Pearl Harbor!!!
SSX Ha-24 settles to bottom of harbor at Pearl Harbor and is lost
I am guessing this line went to the log after the attack
I-20 launches midget submarine Ha-14 to attack Pearl Harbor
Midget Submarine Ha-14 becomes lost and returns to I-20
I-22 launches midget submarine Ha-18 to attack Pearl Harbor
SSX Ha-18 founders and is lost attempting to penetrate harbor at Pearl Harbor
I-24 launches midget submarine Ha-19 to attack Pearl Harbor
SSX Ha-19 unable to penetrate harbor at Pearl Harbor and is abandoned


Why use (midget submarine, Midget Submarine, and SSX), pick one! That's not fog of war, just hard to read!





I will add this to the list of items at an appropriate priority.







Kwik E Mart -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/11/2009 10:24:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152

COMBAT EVENTS FOR 12/07/41

I-16 launches midget submarine Ha-22 to attack Pearl Harbor
SSX Ha-22 hits a mine and is destroyed at Pearl Harbor
I-18 launches midget submarine Ha-24 to attack Pearl Harbor
SSX Ha-24 penetrates harbor at Pearl Harbor!!!
SSX Ha-24 settles to bottom of harbor at Pearl Harbor and is lost
I am guessing this line went to the log after the attack
I-20 launches midget submarine Ha-14 to attack Pearl Harbor
Midget Submarine Ha-14 becomes lost and returns to I-20
I-22 launches midget submarine Ha-18 to attack Pearl Harbor
SSX Ha-18 founders and is lost attempting to penetrate harbor at Pearl Harbor
I-24 launches midget submarine Ha-19 to attack Pearl Harbor
SSX Ha-19 unable to penetrate harbor at Pearl Harbor and is abandoned


Why use (midget submarine, Midget Submarine, and SSX), pick one! That's not fog of war, just hard to read!





I will add this to the list of items at an appropriate priority.







LOL....low to sub-terranian? [:D]




witpqs -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/12/2009 2:37:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

A Dutch sub attacked the Kota Bharu landing force and ASW ships reported 10 hits on it, but no report of a sinking. Later in the day, this same boat was hit by ASW forces at Singora scoring 2 more hits in the afternoon.

Lexington launched a strike at a pair of DDs 440 mi almost due east of Wake at a 1 hex range.



OK - with FOW just how do you know those two things in bold above?




Yamato hugger -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/12/2009 4:30:12 AM)

Well on the sub attacks, from this on the first attack:
Japanese Ships
xAK Ayatosan Maru
PB Tatsumiya Maru
SC Ch 9
SC Ch 7
DMS W-3

Allied Ships
SS KXI, hits 10

And this on the 2nd:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Singora at 51,72

Japanese Ships
AV Sagara Maru
xAP Naminoue Maru
xAK Kyokko Maru
xAK Syoto Maru
xAK Asosan Maru
PB Eiko Maru
PB Chosa Maru
SC Ch 8
DMS W-6

Allied Ships
SS KXI, hits 2


Now, as far as I can report, thats the same boat. If it isnt because of FoW then it did its job in confusing the Jap player.

As for the carrier, that was easy:

[image]local://upfiles/14252/9511D946C0D24572A33B1DFC6CB77A22.jpg[/image]

Has to be the Lex, because E couldnt be here on Dec 8.




W T Door -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/12/2009 1:19:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

My guess would be you had auto-subs set to yes. Thats the default on it (dont ask me why).


Thanks, I'll take a look.

Went back and looked, auto-subs has been off from the beginning (I haven't changed any settings), puzzling.




helldiver -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/12/2009 2:00:54 PM)

W T Door.

Yes, this happens, even with the auto-subs setting "off.." One doesn't really notice until a sub is suddenly seen under "Computer Control" and off on a mission of its own (and I think it is only after being in port for repair/refuel). It's annoying, but not serious; it does require kicking up the micromanagement a bit to not only ensure your SS are doing what you want, but also that they're not doing what you don't want (like driving up to Fisherman's Wharf)... requires a look-see at all subs each turn... I am not sure if this was addressed in the AE re-write, though I doubt it...

Regards,
Helldiver




witpqs -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/12/2009 2:30:04 PM)

So you knew about the range to the carrier because it was spotted - no 'magic lines' appeared to an empty hex on the map. That's good!

The sub I am less enthusiastic about. How does a sub - that survives and escapes - get identified?




Yamato hugger -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/12/2009 2:59:05 PM)

Ever see "Operation Petticoat"? By the bras in the water following them [:D]

Actually the easiest way is by radio intercept. A sub will radio a contact report (if possible). A radio operators "style" is like a fingerprint (or so Im told) and after doing it a while you can tell 1 from another. Ive read a few books about the "Ultra" intercepts in the ETO and they had so many messages to decode, they looked first at the operators they knew were various HQs.

Then again, could be simple as a surfaced sub attack (which happens), or the guy on the radio saying "Hey you, this is me, we are here and did it" in the clear. Thats why S-2's get paid [;)]




W T Door -> RE: Round two - DING YH v TS (2/12/2009 3:31:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Helldiver

W T Door.

Yes, this happens, even with the auto-subs setting "off.." One doesn't really notice until a sub is suddenly seen under "Computer Control" and off on a mission of its own (and I think it is only after being in port for repair/refuel). It's annoying, but not serious; it does require kicking up the micromanagement a bit to not only ensure your SS are doing what you want, but also that they're not doing what you don't want (like driving up to Fisherman's Wharf)... requires a look-see at all subs each turn... I am not sure if this was addressed in the AE re-write, though I doubt it...

Regards,
Helldiver


Ah well, maybe in a later patch. The irritating thing about it is that it keeps my subs from ever really completeing repairs, so they're never really 100%.

quote:

Thats why S-2's get paid
Or possibly even N-2s.....




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