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sabre1 -> RE: War history (2/8/2009 5:37:08 PM)

Very true Apathetic Lurker.  Even friends my age (55) when I suggest learning a wargame for "something" to do just roll their eyes at me, and chalk it up to me being wrapped just a little bit different. They tell me wargames are to complicated and involved to be fun.  So, I just go back to my warm mug of tea, read the Richard Sharp series (again), play the piano, hang out here with you guys (yep definitely qualifies as strange), play a computer wargame, exercise, hmmmm, I need to get a life (that's not wife for the uninformed)...




leastonh1 -> RE: War history (2/8/2009 6:00:15 PM)

I've just started piano lessons again, 30yrs after giving up and love it. Starting right at the beginning again and playing through a simple book is very satisfying, but knowing some theory already is also helping a lot. Not to mention loads of enthusiasm [:D] I have a very nice lady piano teacher I visit once per week and a Yamaha keyboard to practice on for the moment.




06 Maestro -> RE: War history (2/8/2009 7:00:22 PM)

Hmm, I wonder if this is a genetic thing; I have been eyeballing my guitar (acoustic) which has sat dormant for over ten years. I'm coming up on 53 in a few weeks-mid life crisis? I used to find playing that thing very relaxing. I've even considered leaning the piano (have an old upright). The kids learned to play years ago, but it just takes up space now.




leastonh1 -> RE: War history (2/8/2009 7:14:10 PM)

Well, I'm only 40 and am starting my crisis early. Sports car and bimbo to follow shortly, but I draw the line at hair implants!! [:'(]




sabre1 -> RE: War history (2/8/2009 7:56:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim_H

Well, I'm only 40 and am starting my crisis early. Sports car and bimbo to follow shortly, but I draw the line at hair implants!! [:'(]



LOL!

Just don't marry the bimbo, they call them bimbo's for a reason.




06 Maestro -> RE: War history (2/8/2009 8:13:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim_H

I draw the line at hair implants!! [:'(]


Obviously[:)]




Zakhal -> RE: War history (2/9/2009 5:55:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow

When I was a kid, at family meetings my grand uncles were always talking about their experience from Russia and France. That's why I later got interested in wargaming and -history. But these generation extincted and with them the rememberance of WWII. However, modern conflicts don't know heroes anymore and are not interesting enough to get debated from a militairy pov.

Allthough I dont have any memory of the experience I most likely got the hobby from my father who loaned big ww2 books from library when I was very young. Nowadays he still watches ww2 documentaries and stuff and he has lots of free time. Perhaps I should try convince him to start wargaming. He lives quite far but he does have a computer.




Phatguy -> RE: War history (2/9/2009 7:33:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim_H

Well, I'm only 40 and am starting my crisis early. Sports car and bimbo to follow shortly, but I draw the line at hair implants!! [:'(]



Hmm..my crisis ended up at 42 with a quad bypass. But Damn! It was fun getting there.. Make sure you either a) get sexy sports car and drab old lady or b) sexy bimbo and a yugo-style vehicle.. DO NOT get both....you will end up like me...hehehe




leastonh1 -> RE: War history (2/9/2009 8:32:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker
Hmm..my crisis ended up at 42 with a quad bypass. But Damn! It was fun getting there.. Make sure you either a) get sexy sports car and drab old lady or b) sexy bimbo and a yugo-style vehicle.. DO NOT get both....you will end up like me...hehehe

I had double (and almost fatal) pneumonia with some complications in 2007, which gave me plenty to think about, so I can probably relate in some ways. Perspective! I'm not sure whether it's a symptom of my crisis, but I'd much rather have a nice Alienware PC than a flash car. The sexy woman would be rather nice, though I'm not sure my energy levels are up to that challenge! [:D]




Phatguy -> RE: War history (2/9/2009 10:11:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim_H


quote:

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker
Hmm..my crisis ended up at 42 with a quad bypass. But Damn! It was fun getting there.. Make sure you either a) get sexy sports car and drab old lady or b) sexy bimbo and a yugo-style vehicle.. DO NOT get both....you will end up like me...hehehe

I had double (and almost fatal) pneumonia with some complications in 2007, which gave me plenty to think about, so I can probably relate in some ways. Perspective! I'm not sure whether it's a symptom of my crisis, but I'd much rather have a nice Alienware PC than a flash car. The sexy woman would be rather nice, though I'm not sure my energy levels are up to that challenge! [:D]


I had my double pneumonia in my late twenties.. that was when I found out I had diabetes. Had a nice long vacation from work back then...Being young and foolish I kept on smoking and carousing when I got back on my feet...The smoking didnt help my diabetes or my arteries.




leastonh1 -> RE: War history (2/9/2009 10:35:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker
I had my double pneumonia in my late twenties.. that was when I found out I had diabetes. Had a nice long vacation from work back then...Being young and foolish I kept on smoking and carousing when I got back on my feet...The smoking didnt help my diabetes or my arteries.

The pneumonia stopped me smoking, I'm happy to say. It was an instant cure and I haven't wanted to smoke ever since. It's quite sobering to think that if I was still in my 20's, I'd probably still feel invincible enough to carry on being a smoker. When it happened just as I was approaching 40, that's a very different thing again. A very lucky escape.




Phatguy -> RE: War history (2/9/2009 11:14:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim_H


quote:

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker
I had my double pneumonia in my late twenties.. that was when I found out I had diabetes. Had a nice long vacation from work back then...Being young and foolish I kept on smoking and carousing when I got back on my feet...The smoking didnt help my diabetes or my arteries.

The pneumonia stopped me smoking, I'm happy to say. It was an instant cure and I haven't wanted to smoke ever since. It's quite sobering to think that if I was still in my 20's, I'd probably still feel invincible enough to carry on being a smoker. When it happened just as I was approaching 40, that's a very different thing again. A very lucky escape.


Ive been cig free since Sept 3rd..Every day is a major challenge. I so want one 3-5 times a day even though I know what can happen and the smell is neauseating.I have actually punched a hole in the wall out of smoke frustration. Bad thing is when I go back to work I might be sorely tempted..Out of 90 at my terminal, 60 smoke heavily. Two have died of cancer in the 5 months I have been out, but strangely that hasnt curbed my smoke urges.




KG Erwin -> RE: War history (2/9/2009 11:14:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker
I had my double pneumonia in my late twenties.. that was when I found out I had diabetes. Had a nice long vacation from work back then...Being young and foolish I kept on smoking and carousing when I got back on my feet...The smoking didnt help my diabetes or my arteries.


Apathetic Lurker, I've been a Type I diabetic since I was 8 years old. I am now 51, and take two insulin shots a day. I don't take care of myself like I should, but I've managed to help produce a beautiful daughter who's now 12 years old.

Needless to say, my condition prevented me from joining the military, but I've had a lifelong interest in military history. I am also a musician, and played in several bands over the course of 22 years. Just ask Mr. Keith Richards -- his home library includes many volumes on WWII.

In my opinion, holding various interests, whether it be history, music, literature, science, art, sports or whatever else, helps make one a well-rounded person. It definitely helps party conversations from being dull and boring. [sm=00000436.gif]




Doggie -> RE: War history (2/9/2009 11:46:39 PM)




quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow

When I was a kid, at family meetings my grand uncles were always talking about their experience from Russia and France. That's why I later got interested in wargaming and -history. But these generation extincted and with them the rememberance of WWII. However, modern conflicts don't know heroes anymore and are not interesting enough to get debated from a militairy pov.


Modern conflicts have plenty of heros. But they're not from Europe, so you don't hear about them. European newspapers prefer to characterize modern warriors as war criminals and baby killers because Americans, Englishmen, and Australians are fighting the battles Europeans won't.

Modern warriors fight under ridiculous rules of engagement and face bloodthirsty killers down their own terms, shooting around the skirts and children they hide behind. Wittman and Rudel wouldn't have hesitated to level a village openly supporting partisans. And they did not have to endure slander and treason from war correspondents they defend with their lives. A correspondent from Signal would not have dared to fabricate atrocities among the troops who protected him. The BBC does it as a matter of routine.

A hero is guy who volunteers for a dangerous assignment while lesser men sit around in thier dorm rooms and congratulate themselves on their moral superiority between bong hits. Valhalla is full of Nordic warriors puking in their graves.




KG Erwin -> RE: War history (2/10/2009 1:05:47 AM)

Ok, before this thread gets locked up, I will say this: the profession of arms is a noble one. The study of military history is also a legitimate field of study. Those who denigrate it may have their resistance based on philosophical grounds, BUT, let's not degenerate this thread into a "right & wrong" rhetorical match which leads nowhere.




06 Maestro -> RE: War history (2/10/2009 3:01:47 AM)

I recall an interesting study conducted by ‘Siberian Heat” (currently of ACG) nearly 4 years ago at the old Warfare HQ club. He attempted to find some particular psychological traits that war gamers had in common. It has been a long time since I saw those results (I participated also), but IIRC most of us fell into one or two groups that together made up a very small percentage of the general population-if you feel different, it is most likely because you are.

I did a quick search of the AGC forums and fortunately they have archived the old WFHG forums. I could not find the profiling test (S. H. might provide it if there was an interest), but I did find the results of this study. If anyone is interested, it can be found at:

http://www.armchairgeneral.com/wargaming-survey-part-i-understanding-your-local-grognard.htm?page=1


Edit: The test link is on page 3 of the article.




06 Maestro -> RE: War history (2/10/2009 3:09:03 AM)

Here are the results of the above mentioned study.

http://www.armchairgeneral.com/wargaming-survey-part-ii-grognards-revealed.htm?page=1




leastonh1 -> RE: War history (2/10/2009 8:24:07 AM)

Maestro, thanks for the links, that's absolutely fascinating. I'm INTJ apparently, which isn't really much of a surprise to me. I do work in IT and agree with pretty much everything said about my personality type in the analysis. It's nice to be different. [:)]




Lützow -> RE: War history (2/10/2009 11:40:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zakhal

Allthough I dont have any memory of the experience I most likely got the hobby from my father who loaned big ww2 books from library when I was very young. Nowadays he still watches ww2 documentaries and stuff and he has lots of free time. Perhaps I should try convince him to start wargaming. He lives quite far but he does have a computer.


My father's generation wasn't interested in this. Guess this is related to the fact that they grew up between ruins and experienced first-hand the ugly side of war. It also could be part of the reason that cosims were not popular here. Actually, I can't remember of any shop selling tabletop wargames 20-30 years ago. We played with toy soldiers instead and I got my imagination about WW2 from reading books.




leastonh1 -> RE: War history (2/10/2009 12:55:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow
My father's generation wasn't interested in this. Guess this is related to the fact that they grew up between ruins and experienced first-hand the ugly side of war. It also could be part of the reason that cosims were not popular here. Actually, I can't remember of any shop selling tabletop wargames 20-30 years ago. We played with toy soldiers instead and I got my imagination about WW2 from reading books.

My grandfather is very much like this. He fought in WWII and almost never talks about it. In my entire life, I've only had one conversation with him about the war and that was very recently. I suppose those who were directly involved or affected by it would have a very different perspective than the rest of us. It must have been incredibly traumatic, I can't begine to imagine and hope I never can.




105mm Howitzer -> RE: War history (2/10/2009 1:26:55 PM)

My dad and his brothers ( now all deceased) were in the 2nd WW, but on the wrong side of the fence, the Really wrong side of the fence. Let's see, one captured by the Germans in Yugoslavia in 43, another sunk when his transport was bringing him back from Greece, captured by the Brits, ( actually stayed in England post-war) another was captured in Tobruk, the eldest enjoyed ( really , he did) a nice posing as coastal artilleryman in Sardinia, ( never captured, just de-mobilized) and my dad ( 18 at the time) didn't finish Basic Training before the surrender of 43. ( was being trained as platoon MG'er) NONE of them ever told me of war experiences, including a friend of the family who survived Russia from 41 to the Stalingrad debacle. He'd shed a tear, occasionally. but never recalled any of his experiences there.
Needless to say, when I joined up in 79, they mostly didn't approve. I had to work hard telling them that things weren't the same as in Europe 1939. Before their deaths, I only managed to get fragments of tales out of them.




leastonh1 -> RE: War history (2/10/2009 1:55:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: 105mm Howitzer

My dad and his brothers ( now all deceased) were in the 2nd WW, but on the wrong side of the fence, the Really wrong side of the fence. Let's see, one captured by the Germans in Yugoslavia in 43, another sunk when his transport was bringing him back from Greece, captured by the Brits, ( actually stayed in England post-war) another was captured in Tobruk, the eldest enjoyed ( really , he did) a nice posing as coastal artilleryman in Sardinia, ( never captured, just de-mobilized) and my dad ( 18 at the time) didn't finish Basic Training before the surrender of 43. ( was being trained as platoon MG'er) NONE of them ever told me of war experiences, including a friend of the family who survived Russia from 41 to the Stalingrad debacle. He'd shed a tear, occasionally. but never recalled any of his experiences there.
Needless to say, when I joined up in 79, they mostly didn't approve. I had to work hard telling them that things weren't the same as in Europe 1939. Before their deaths, I only managed to get fragments of tales out of them.

A selfish part of me is saddened to think of the vast amount of knowledge and history we've lost because these men and women can't or won't talk about what they experienced. I don't understand, but I do respect their choice.

I'm one of those who really takes to heart the phrase from the very moving Ode of Remembrance; "Lest we forget" and am determined to learn as much as I can in order to pass this on to my son and his generation as he grows up. It is very important to me.




06 Maestro -> RE: War history (2/10/2009 2:39:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim_H

Maestro, thanks for the links, that's absolutely fascinating.


You're welcome-my plaesure.

quote:

ORIGINAL:
I'm INTJ apparently, which isn't really much of a surprise to me. I do work in IT and agree with pretty much everything said about my personality type in the analysis. It's nice to be different. [:)]



A dispottionate number of people here would find they are the same type, ITNJ (1 to 3% of general population-36% of study participants-one other type would bring the total to over 60%). It is nice to be different from the masses.




Lützow -> RE: War history (2/10/2009 2:59:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim_H

My grandfather is very much like this. He fought in WWII and almost never talks about it. In my entire life, I've only had one conversation with him about the war and that was very recently. I suppose those who were directly involved or affected by it would have a very different perspective than the rest of us. It must have been incredibly traumatic, I can't begine to imagine and hope I never can.


I never got to to know my grandpa as he was KIA in march 1945, but my uncle was not bitter in his war tales. What I got told about winter combat in Russia sounded like a big adventure he had to endure and fortunately survived. Maybe the distance of 30 years tinted his memories and made it easier to speak about those things.

Anyway, I'm fully aware that I sometimes tend to idealize stuff. But then again, nobody get harmed by playing games and maybe the war generation would have been happy to see, that their grandsons get along together and rather take conflicts to a virtual level. God forbid that we ever have to experience another european tragedy.




leastonh1 -> RE: War history (2/10/2009 5:54:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow
I never got to to know my grandpa as he was KIA in march 1945, but my uncle was not bitter in his war tales. What I got told about winter combat in Russia sounded like a big adventure he had to endure and fortunately survived. Maybe the distance of 30 years tinted his memories and made it easier to speak about those things.

Anyway, I'm fully aware that I sometimes tend to idealize stuff. But then again, nobody get harmed by playing games and maybe the war generation would have been happy to see, that their grandsons get along together and rather take conflicts to a virtual level. God forbid that we ever have to experience another european tragedy.

How much do you think the experiences of your grandfather and uncle influenced your interest in history and wargaming? For me, the answer to that would be probably a great deal, but I'd never really considered it properly until this thread.

I think we can all be guilty of idealising things like this. I tend to see the romantic side of this history sometimes, which is both good and bad. You know, everyone pulling together in the community, comradeship, heroism to help and often save your brothers in arms and so on. This is probably nothing like the reality, but even some of those who lived through the war describe it in this way.

Funnily enough, my great grandfather, who died when I was around 14, fought in both wars. He used to talk quite a bit about it, but I was too young to really appreciate or understand what it meant. His sister-in-law (my grandmother's sister) married a German ex-POW! He was in the Luftwaffe and was apparently shot down and captured by the English. He stayed over here after the war and married his English rose. Now, that's romantic! Sadly, he died a few weeks ago. I regret not seeing him for many years and not keeping in touch. I remember him as a very humble, gently spoken man with a dry wit.




PunkReaper -> RE: War history (2/10/2009 8:41:41 PM)

My father was in WW2 going to France a few days after D Day. He also never talked of the war until one day when a few days before he died. We sat together on his bed and he spent the morning telling me of his experiences "over there" and the friends he lost. He was seriously wounded and was effected by his wounds for his the rest of his life. Finally his advice to me was that if another European war comes don't volunteer and get myself and the kids some tickets to Canada. "The memories never leave you" he said..... sad




Zap -> RE: War history (2/10/2009 9:12:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zakhal


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow

When I was a kid, at family meetings my grand uncles were always talking about their experience from Russia and France. That's why I later got interested in wargaming and -history. But these generation extincted and with them the rememberance of WWII. However, modern conflicts don't know heroes anymore and are not interesting enough to get debated from a militairy pov.

Allthough I dont have any memory of the experience I most likely got the hobby from my father who loaned big ww2 books from library when I was very young. Nowadays he still watches ww2 documentaries and stuff and he has lots of free time. Perhaps I should try convince him to start wargaming. He lives quite far but he does have a computer.




I feel for you Zakhal. But Finland is a small country population wise. So I can understand why you have trouble finding players near you. Actually, its very possible you are the only one of your kind in Finland[:)]

But to agree with you, I was unable to find others with like interest in gaming.

However, since the internet and coming to this site. I know of at least six or seven who live in my Stae of California, one in Arizona, Las Vegas. These are somewhat close to me. I live near LA so San Diego is two hours away Sacramento about five hours. Now I feel a little closer to gamers. I'm not alone anymore. [&o] thank you, thank you, thank you.




Scott_WAR -> RE: War history (2/10/2009 9:48:12 PM)

My interest in wargaming came from.........heck I have no idea. I have no family members that have been in any wars that I have ever heard of. I am an analytical type person, in that I try to see the reason or motivation behind everything. I always had an interest in world war 2 since first learning of it in school., particulary carrier and naval battles, and when a frined of mine bought axis and allies, I found my hobby.




KG Erwin -> RE: War history (2/10/2009 10:29:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: 06 Maestro


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim_H

Maestro, thanks for the links, that's absolutely fascinating.


You're welcome-my plaesure.

quote:

ORIGINAL:
I'm INTJ apparently, which isn't really much of a surprise to me. I do work in IT and agree with pretty much everything said about my personality type in the analysis. It's nice to be different. [:)]



A dispottionate number of people here would find they are the same type, ITNJ (1 to 3% of general population-36% of study participants-one other type would bring the total to over 60%). It is nice to be different from the masses.


Yep, I fell into that INTJ category. No surprise there, huh?




V22 Osprey -> RE: War history (2/10/2009 11:52:17 PM)

Not reading this entire Thread, I would like to say something:

I think that maybe we would see more young wargamers if they something like TOAWIII or JTCS on a Console like XBOX.Or what about a HALO operational wargame?My friends tell that wargames(even RTS!) are boring and just go on and on but they think the RTS Halo wars is all-that just because it has HALO on it.I was raised on patient games so I really enjoy wargames.To me the modern need to have ''instant action'' and gaming consoles are the main enemy of wargames and war history as a hobby.




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