RE: Strategic Vision (Full Version)

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2ndACR -> RE: Strategic Vision (12/29/2008 11:41:35 PM)

Yep.......I just hate having Manila in my rear area for too long.......Once I feel they are severly weakened, then I will take the base.......but usually once I have secured my expected perimeter etc........then I can have time to rebuild the damaged units.

You might need the 4 divisions to break his have to have troops north and south.......if he see's just troops from Legespi, he will defend just north of Naga in the wooded hex. Best get to Manila and can take it which will force all his other troops to retreat to Bataan.........Worst case.......he gets to Manila before you and if your troops are too tired/disrupted he shock attacks and forces you to retreat. Rare but happens........stay north of the river hex around Clark (do not cross it) until you either take Manila or have troops in the hex........then cross rapidly before he can shift the Clark troops back to Manila........the object is to split his troops.

John 3rd -> RE: Strategic Vision (12/29/2008 11:49:59 PM)

I missed the discussion going on.  If we can drive the troops back and then pull 2 Inf Div then why not?  The bombers and fighters can use the training. 

As I see this we need to capture Singapore and Java then deal with India.  We can still land with the Malaya Army once it is finished with Singers and then reinfroce the assault when Java is done.  Does that sound right?  It would make sense to me.

2ndACR -> RE: Strategic Vision (12/30/2008 12:16:00 AM)

One you have him bottled up in either Manila or Bataan, then by all means, pull 2 of the 4 div out and use elsewhere.......just keep 2 there to bottle him up and keep a large air force there to bomb the place to dust......rotate green troops in and do small deliberate attacks to raise the experience level to what ever level you want.......always keep 1 experienced div there until he surrenders.

I was just saying that you will have to have 4 divs with 2 south and 2 north to force him to choose......once he is bottled up, then you have freedom of action........worst case is he splits his troops between Bataan and Manila.......then use 2+ to capture Bataan and the other 2 to bottle Manila. Just do not allow your troops to shock across the river until you are either in Manila or he is retreating faster than you can sense risking a butchering crossing the river.

John 3rd -> RE: Strategic Vision (12/30/2008 1:09:05 AM)

Brad has the Philippines.  It sounds like you two are in agreement.

We are waiting FOREVER on the turn!

Q-Ball -> RE: Strategic Vision (12/30/2008 4:48:24 PM)

Dec 9
I will do a quick writeup in the middle of the excellent strategic discussions. Overall there has been almost no Allied air activity in the DEI or Phillipines, save for some shipping attacks by LB out of Cagayan. (and that probably because they don't have the PP yet to change it). We'll see if that changes. We still haven't lost a ship; I'm pretty sure THAT will change!

The 18th and 5th divisions, plus support units, continue to unload at Singora. The RAF appears to have withdrawn to Singapore and elsewhere. We will finish the unloading on the 10th, and attack Alor Star, probably about the 12th. Imperial Guards and 16th Division will be joining within the week.

Davao fell on the 8th. The 56th will be on the move to another destination shortly. The 65th Bde, 48th Div are coming ashore at Vigan and Appari, with an airbase being set-up at Appari. Troops are coming ashore at Jolo to set-up an airbase there for Nells.

John summarized the roundup on the 8th; the last of the USN DD's from Manila went down on the 9th, and Car Div 2 is moving even deeper into Indian Country with a move toward Makassar; we spotted an apparent CA/CL TF there yesterday. Those cruisers will probably flee though.

The haul today wasn't as great, 3 damaged USN DD's, an AS, couple AKs, but the overall total is still very good. There are still ships loading or pumping out in Manila harbor, we will take a swipe at them tommorow from the new base at Appari.

Kuching invasion fleet is due to land about the 12th. Amboina should land on the 10th. Both have base forces and supply along, so these airbases should be Nell-rific pretty quickly. Both invasions have BB support in case Force Z makes an appearance.

Cent Pac
One of our subs was spotted by a Dauntless about 300 miles ENE of Palmyra. KB is attempting a high-speed run toward one of three likely destinations for this TF in an attempt to get lucky. (Or get a 1000lb bomb, either one).

John summarized impending SoPac/Cent Pac landings in his last post. There will be a flurry of landings in the next week.

RE: JAVA: Strategy here depends alot on what the Allies do; whether they commit additional troops or air, or withdraw to Soerbaya. Before attempting to land, I want to clear Timor and Kendari, to prevent P-40 transfers from Australia. Java becomes tougher if the Allies load it up with air. It's harder to Soerbaya in your rear than Manila, because they likely have more supplies.

Q-Ball -> East Wind, Rain (12/30/2008 8:28:14 PM)

Dec 10th

John will likely comment, but another glorious day for the Empire! This was was more satisfying than the opening turn, because alot of that was just die rolls. This was smart placement. I'll summarize...

Naval Battles

During the night, a mid-ocean intercept off Kuching caught the 3 UK DD's from Hong Kong. Ukita's cruisers sent all 3 to the bottom without a scratch. We had spotted them the turn before at Miri, and estimated the night approach. Chalk one for the Empire!

Another night TF sank two loaded transports in Cagayan (troops on board), and subs got an MSW fleeing the PI.

If you remember last turn, we sent Car Div 2 from Balikpapan to chase an Allied Cruiser TF spotted off Makassar. They were caught by Car Div 2 brilliantly, sending CA Houston to the bottom, heavily damaging CL Marblehead, and damaging CL Boise. I am pretty sure they were attempting to attack the Amboina landings. Those were covered by 4 BBs, not sure how they would have done, but we'll never find out. Next turn we'll try to find and finish Boise.

We also sent KB due south. I wanted to send it EAST after a CV sighting, but John sent it due south. Good thing he did, as they caught the CA Indianapolis/DMS TF and sank most of it, including the CA. This TF was spotted two turns ago. Now it's pretty much gone.

Final Score:
CA Houston, CA Indianapolis, 3 DDs, 3 DMS, 3 AK, 2 MSW sunk
CL Marblehead, 1 DD, 1 DMS heavily damaged and probably toast
CL Boise, 1 DD, 1 DMS Damaged, possible danger


SRA Landings
Troops are ashore and will attack at Jolo and Amboina. Base forces are also ready to unload, and Nellify those bases. Kuching landing will hit the beach tommorow. Invasion TF's are sailing for Tarakan and Menado; the troops at Amboina will be on the way also before too long.

Only thing of note is that the UK Torp Planes popped up with an attack on the shipping at Singora. They didn't hit anything. That was a bad choice, those transports were pretty much empty now. I would have sent those planes to Singkawang to attack the Kuching landing.

Cent Pac

Nothing else to note here other than that CV "battle". Invasions TFs still steaming to their destinations.

John 3rd -> CarDiv2! (12/31/2008 5:14:48 AM)

When Brad and I started talking about doing this campaign I was pretty adamant that we could launch a successful PH Attack with only 4 CV.  The reason for that desire was the impact having a pair of Fleet Carriers could mean in the Philippines as well as DEI early operations.  The first 4 days of this campaign have proven that to be a good and solid choice.

CarDiv2 Action
The Zeros and 72 Attack Planes that augmented our Manila Bay attack easily doubled the amount of carnage done to that harbor on the 7th.  The 8th saw Admiral Yamaguchi's command spring south towards Balikpapan and hit 3 American DDs leaving Manila Bay.  The 9th saw strikes at Balikpapan sinking an AK and hitting AD Blackhawk.  It is the action on the 10th that further vindicate the choice when CarDiv2 sinks CA Houston, cripples CL Marblehead, hits the Boise, and damages 2 American DDs.  Tomorrow they will finish the American warships and hit some AK that are retreating towards Darwin.

In an almost single-handed use they have secured the eastern portion of the DEI and crippled the Allied shipping and warships in this portion of the region.  After these actions, Yamaguchi will retire to a pair of AO refuel and head for Truk.  He should arrive right after Rabaul is taken and can then operate south of Port Moresby sinking shipping in that area.

Having completed the highly successful Pearl Harbor attack, Admiral Nagumo has moved steadily south.  As Brad mentioned above, we debated on moving the carriers southeast towards Christmas Island or Southwards to the west of Palmyra.  We had had a Glen spot a TF moving so I ordered an intercept a move due south at Full Speed.  The 10th dawns with clear weather.  CV Kaga launches a strike in the morning and sinks MSW Robin.  The afternoon searches picks up a far better target and launches a massed strike of 30 Zero, 64 Val, and 71 Kate upon the CA Indianapolis and her DMS escorts.  The Heavy Cruiser goes down after 5 Torps slam into her side.  Three DMS sink as well.  Nagumo will move towards Canton Isle and then disengage.  A TF of 4 AO departs Kwajalein to link-up.

Differing topic...

SS Action
Brad controls the vast majority of Japanese SS and his work has been excellent.  We have the Glen SS that put Nagumo on to his target and I-123 sinks a MSW SE of the Philippines.  He has also established a strong SS picket line NE of Pearl hoping to catch something moving between Hawaii and the West Coast.

Brad controls the vast

John 3rd -> Central and South Pacific (12/31/2008 5:48:46 AM)

Though consigned to sideshow with our India plans, the Central and South Pacific are going to be highly active theatres for the first two months of the war.  My hope is to distract the Allies into thinking we are driving south instead of west for our main effort.  Starting tomorrow things should heat-up in these two regions. 

Central Pacific
The island will be invaded and taken tomorrow on the 11th.  I have two full strength Naval Guard units loaded aboard 6 AP with a strong Covering Force of 2 CA, 1 CL, and 6 DD.  On the 13th a Base Force will land and begin building up the Fortifications.  We'll move some recon assets to this atoll so we can watch what is happening at Midway.

Nauru and Tarawa
These islands will be taken on the 13th or 14th.  A Special Base Force will land on Tarawa and begin a massive expansion of this important base.

South Pacific
Pre-Rabaul Landings
The Admiralties and Kavieng Forces should be spotted tomorrow as they approach their targets.  Madang and Lae Invasion Forces are now loading and will depart in a day or two.

The South Seas Force is waiting at Rabaul and the 56th Infantry Division should rendezvous within 2-3 days.  Together these units will then depart and grab Rabaul with a Base Force to fill out the facilities.  Once Rabaul falls numerous units will be arriving to augment the base (mainly HQ units) and expand Japanese control of the area. 

It is anticipated that CarDiv2 should arrive about this point and go raiding southwards.

Port Moresby
Pending on the disruption level of the two main infantry units, they will rest about a week and then go after PM.  Hopefully the Aussies will have landed reinforcements here and the Japanes will be given an opportunity at a substantial POW bag.

KB Support
While CarDiv2 goes raiding I plan to swing the KB due south and raid along the Suva--Noumea area to cause trouble and divert attention.

Once PM falls, Brad and I will look at the map for major command decisions.  In theory this event sequence should place the fall of Port Moresby with the capaitulation of Singapore.  If the full KB is needed for Indian Operations then I will swing west.  If there is still time then the 56th ID will be loaded for a landing at Koumac and I'll try to get all of New Caledonia before settling onto the defensive in the Central and Southern Pacific.

modrow -> RE: Central and South Pacific (12/31/2008 10:44:35 AM)

Just wanted to say that I really really like reading this thread - please keep posting and discussing a lot !



John 3rd -> RE: Central and South Pacific (12/31/2008 4:09:44 PM)

Thank you Hartwig for the comments.  It has been a lot of fun figuring things out with Brad.

Just yesterday we had an email going talking about how it must have appeared to our opponents that we perfectly coordinated CarDiv2 to cover the Amboina landings.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  I knew that we should have aircover there so moved that way but it was more in pursuit of the American TF more then physical coverage. 

We can hope that this happy coincidence occurs regularly...

2ndACR -> RE: Central and South Pacific (12/31/2008 4:24:00 PM)

Do not forget the travel time it will take from south pac to India area.........your talking about almost 2 weeks travel at mission speed. Watch the system damage........I would keep CVDiv 2 in the DEI area. That at least gives you 2 fleet CV's with hopefully very low system damage very close to India area. Combine that with Baby KB packing nothing but Zeros on your CVE's gives you a good strike force.

2 Fleet CV's, your CVL's with normal loadout, and 2-3 CVE's packing 27 Zero's each gives you almost all the firepower you need to hit India.

The CV's and CVL's keep the Royal Navy honest and the CVE's provide CAP for invasion fleet. Plus they can immediatly transfer Zero's to captured base and you can transfer Kates or more Zero's to them as needed. That way your base CAP is fresh with low fatigue than flying in land fighters from say Rangoon and having them arrive with 20 fatigue etc.

Main KB stays in South/Central Pac to keep US very busy and cautious.

John 3rd -> Operational Execution (12/31/2008 6:22:26 PM)

That is GOOD thinking again! I just emailed Brad the thought of refueling CarDiv2 from my AO coming down from Palau and then heading for Rabaul but by the SOUTHERN route between New Guinea and Australia. Perhaps I can bag a reinforcement convoy heading for PM? Once they make their presense known in the southern waters there, they could return to Amboina or Timor, rest some and then embark on operations south of Java until needed in the IO.

CVL Shoho will be finished by the end of the month. That would give us the medium-sized Ryujo (48 planes) and 2 CVL (30 planes each) to support CarDiv2. Between the 5 Flattops would be 230 planes. That is pretty respectable against the RN...

We only have the single CVE (and Hosho) at present and am not sure when the next will be completed.

I took this screenshot for all the Boise Fans out there!


John 3rd -> Continued Operations (12/31/2008 6:56:57 PM)

Combat Report
December 11, 1941

Things continue to go VERY well for the Japanese attack!  I mean this beyond the 'normal' expectations for the opening of the war. 

North Pacific
Attu Invasion Force
The Japanese will begin loading a Special Base Force that belongs to the Northern Command for landing at Attu.  Base expansion will begin at once.  This force will be protected by 4 old DDs providing cover.

Paramushiro Jima
A second small Base Force will be lifted to this base so it can continue to expand as well.  I will move Northern HQ up there within a month or so.

Pending on Brad thoughts I don't see much point in going ANYWHERE else in this theatre. 

Central Pacific
The Japanese get a bad landing roll and only get a 1-1 on the initial invasion of Wake.  I order the 2 CA there to bombard on the 12th and will attack again on the 13th when my Base Force arrives to unload.

The KB doesn't move its full 8 hexes towards Canton because it decides to refuel.  Grrr....  The CVs do manage to finish off a DMS from yesterday's attack.  I'll move south one more day and then head for Kwajalein.  We did not have enough Zeros in the pool for the opening and I need to fill out those Daitai to provide me with about 10 more fighters.  Can never have too many...

Three convoys will meet tomorrow west of Truk and shall combine to include 56th Inf Div, South Seas Force, and a Base Force.  They will then proceed to Rabaul.  Cover is provided by 4 CA and 5 DD.  It appears that the Aussies have already pulled their planes out of this target because none of my convoys are spotted appraoching their targets.

As by request from Brad I order a strike at Manila's AF.  52 Zero and 45 Betty/Nell encounter 15 P-40s flying over the hex.  For no losses, the Japanese shot down 13 P-40 and destroy 2 B-17 on the ground.  The AF takes 21 hits and will be struck again tomorrow. 

The Allies have about 8-10 single ship TF formed in Manila and we need to sink them!  Brad has moved some Vals and Kates to Aparri to aid in this and I have requested the mini-KB swing back over after covering the Kuching Landing.  There is a CL and 4 DD TF waiting outside the Harbor as well as a TF of 6 DD from the Vigan Landing moving down to strengthen the blockade.

San Fernando
The town is occupied by the Japanese.

This base falls and I expect Betty/Nells to move in immediately.

Eastern DEI
The Neels based here begin to fly strikes at Philippine shipping moving SE from Mindanao.

This base falls easily and Nells/Bettys should move in tomorrow to make life more miserable then it already is for the Allies.

Mid-Ocean Intercept
Brad has an apparent talent for this as he catches 3 AK SW of Amboina with CL Kitakami and 2 DD.  The Torpedo cruiser does well and all three AK sink.

Admiral Yamaguchi is feeling very full of himself right now!  Building on yesterday's sinking of CA Houston, Yamaguchi's expert flyers sink CL Marblehead, and CL Boise!  They also sink an AK too...  The TF will head for Amboina and reprovision from their AOs before heading towards Port Moresby between Australia and New Guinea.

Western DEI
The landing begins here but Dutch SS KXVII sneaks into the Covering Force's screen and plants TWO Torps into BB Nagato's flank!  Ooops.  Not vert sporting of the Dutch!  Kuching will fall tomorrow.

The initial 2 Japanese Inf Div are now fully unloaded and heading for Alor Star.  The 3rd Inf Div involed in the assault will begin unloading an about 2 days.  The Imperial Guards Inf Div will reach Alor Star within about 5 days from its Bangkok starting point.

The Allies knopw this is the route that we will come from.  They launch a strike of 24 Bombers at the AF doing little damage.  I have engineers enlarding the AF and will gather the invasion force for another week or so before beginning the move into Burma.  We want to draw those troops DOWN into Burma...

Port Blair
Surprise is complete when this base spots 30 Tina's flying clamly overhead dropping 431 Paratroopers from the 1st Para Regiment.  The base surrenders immediately and the Tinas will begin bringing in 120th IJN BF tomorrow.  Two small NLF forces will follow after that.  To provide the aerial complement to this base 2 Chutai of Mavis fly in from Sasebo Japan.  How is that for range??!!

Hong Kong
Brad conducts his 3rd Deliberate Attack here dropping the Forts again down to 5.  He gets a 0-1 but the Forts still fall.

My Allie notices a Chinese move of 4 units towards Canton from Suchow.  This might be interesting.

If they haven't left much there, then we might be able to try something.  I order the recon Chutai at Canton to look around a bit.

Totals for the Day:  4 AK, 1 DMS, and CLs Boise/Marblehead

2ndACR -> RE: Continued Operations (12/31/2008 7:37:07 PM)

I always accelerate 1-2 of the CVE's......they use merchant ship points after all. I find them very useful.

Are you shipping out all those construction Bn's to your far flung bases? Use them in groups of 6 and they build very nicely.

I always send the cruisers and South Seas unit to take Wake.......I use the NLF at Saipan to take Guam. But too late now.

Q-Ball -> Ship Production (12/31/2008 8:27:14 PM)

Since 2ndACR asked.....

Accelerated: Shoho, Junyo, Hiyo
Off: Shinano
Everything else is set to Normal. We are building more Naval Shipyards.

Accelerated: 4 ARs, 4MLEs, 2 ASs
Normal: TKs, more AR/MLE/AS, AO, remaining CVEs
Off: All AP and AK

I am glad someone asked, because looking at Tracker, I forgot to accelerate the CVEs! First one is available in 90 days if accelerated. They will be turned on!

I haven't seen anyone yet run low on AP/AK, unless they suffer huge losses, and if we do we'll turn it back on. Merchant shipyard is being used to complete the other builds.

PS: I think 2ndACR is right on Car Div 2.
1. Allied CV's won't try anything until at least 2/1/42. It takes that long, with zero losses, to fill out the VF units with Wildcats. Anytime before then, you go understrength, or with F2As. This is also the entry time for Hornet. Zero bonus still applies. 4 IJN CV's would kick butt until at least April.
2. Car Div 2 AND Baby KB, with Shoho, is enough to take on the RN.
3. USN CVs are still weak, without the 4/42 AA upgrades, and airgrouop re-sizing. Replacement rates for F4F-3 very low (20). F4F-4 doesn't appear until March. Still carry Devastators. Only in mid-July and on, with the Avengers, AA upgrades, and CV Wasp available, does 4 IJN CVs look overmatched.

If we keep Car Div 2 in the DEI, (with a large escort), maybe we could sneak them into the IO once Koepang falls....there are very likely Allied Convoys west of java.

John 3rd -> RE: Continued Operations (12/31/2008 8:30:18 PM)

I don't think I have ever NOT taken Wake with 2 Nvl Guard!  Oh, well...

We have bunches of Con Btn moving about to build-up bases fast.

Brad--Have you accelerated those CVE?  I'll take a look and see if we have or not.  Don't think we'll see one for at least 3-4 months though.  I'll pull up the previous turn and see.

We have already got our turn done and sent.  Four hours is pretty good in a 2x2!  Got a feeling we'll see the round back today and get in two turns in a single day.

John 3rd -> December 12, 1941 (1/1/2009 6:15:13 AM)

Combat Report
December 12, 1941

Operations continue throughout the board.

North Pacific
The Japanese Special Base Force begins loading for Attu.  It will be covered by 4 DD.

Central Pacific
My STF bombards the atoll causing 259 Cas.  I let the Naval Guard units rest for the day.  My Base Force arrives but I'm not sure if it has any combat power with it so I'll wait another day, bombard, and commence the landing.  Adding it all together should give me the atoll!

Will land and take this base tomorrow.

The CVs end up northwest of Canton Isle without spotting anything.  Nagumo shrugs and points the bows of the KB towards Kwajalein.

South Pacific
Landings at Admiralty Islands and Kavieng.  No aerial resistance whatsoever. 

The Rabaul Invasion Force stages a rendezvous west of Truk and now heads for its target.

Form BC Kongo and Haruna, 1 CL, and 4 DD into a bombardment group to hit Rabaul.

Aparri as well as Takao AF are shut down due to weather.  Grr...

Eastern DEI
Palau and Amboina
Nells and Bettys ar ehighly active this day from these bases.  The tally is 2 MSW sunk and 3 AK hit with bombs or Torps.

Yamaguchi ends up one hex west of Amboina and will dock here tomorrow just in time for his AOs to arrive.  The CA and 2 DD detached to raid Balikpapan and a CL and 3 DD STF will refuel and replennish at Palau tomorrow and then join-up with the CVs to strengthen the screening forces.  Still considering whether to send them towards Port Moresby or shot them between Timor and Australian and strike into the IO.  If this is the long-term deployment area of CarDiv2 then I may elect to do the latter choice.

Central DEI
The Japanese still have a couple of small STF operating around here and one of them centered on CL Tama severely damage an AS and AK in the strait NE of Balikpapan.  CL Yura's TF sinks a TK as well.

Western DEI
The Japanese strike this base and gain a 3-1 attack dropping the Forts down to 1.  The base will fall tomorrow.  A group of 8 Swordfish try to attack the invasion force but are intercepted by 20 Zero flying CAP.  These Zeros shot down 3 Swords and another falls to AA fire.        

I move the 9 plane Tony group to Rahaeng for a bit of CAP.  There are now 6 units here with another 4-6 units arriving within 2-3 days.  They will be given their marching orders in about a week.

Port Blair
I land enough Base Force troops to take care of 27 planes today.  Two Chutai of Mavis are now present.  Tomorrow the Tinas will haul the 20th Construction Btn there to help with base expansion.

The Allies try to lift the Base Force here off the base but get nailed by a Chutai of Nells from Saigon.  Two AP are hit with Torps.  I move a Sentai of Lily to Bangkok to add some aerial punch to this area.

SS Operations
I-166 hits a TK with a Torp in the DEI.

Totals for the Day:  1 TK and 2 MSW sunk with 4 AK, 1 AS, and 2 AP damaged.

Q-Ball -> Next Moves (1/1/2009 5:19:51 PM)

John summarized the turn nicely. I am planning the next moves in DEI and PI, and looking for thoughts from John and the gang.


Kuching should fall tommorow. I am thinking of an early move on Java, I want to see what others think.

Once Hong Kong falls, that will free up the 38th Div. I propose taking this unit, plus the 21st and 23rd Bde, and landing them on JAVA, probably at the end of December. Haven't decided on Merak (easier to cover), or Kragen (might split KNIL in two if they garrison Batavia).

Before doing this, I would need to secure Kendari (which should sail shortly), and a quick follow-on landing to Koepang. I also would want to land at Palembang, which is part 2 of my question.

I hate to expose Palembang to air attacks on the Oil, but that airbase is key to supporting a landing at Merak (one at Kragen I would have to use Baby KB). I am trying to think FAST, though, so we can get on with India early.

What do other players think?


I plan on leaving Cagayan alone. If the weather clears, we will start bombing it from Jolo. Without supplies, it can only starve. 2 Divisions are about to land at Legaspi, I am hoping to reach Manila before they can withdraw into it, and thereby split USAFFE forces.

2ndACR -> RE: Next Moves (1/1/2009 5:53:12 PM)

Well, Merak, IIRC can only be reached by going around Singapore or thru Batavia. I do not know if B's mod has the land route/ferry that allows marching from Palembang. I know Nemo's mod does......because I did not know about it and he crushed me.

Palembang damage can be minimized with alot of flak and fighters.

I would land at Kragen. You will take losses and damage while moving to Kragen though. If you land at Palembang, you can stage para's and take Merak. Airlift a brigade into it immediatly on capture. You will need every transport you have though. Hopefully lots of Tabby's. They are my mainstay. That places a force at the allies back and helps pin Batavia forces in place. Not big enough to capture, but big enough to worry them.

My typical Java force LCU only:

38th Div or the div in Hanoi at start
21st Brigade
23rd Brigade
large base force
1 aviation reg
2 engineer regiments
1 para regiment

The sooner you get on Java, the better.......even a one base toe hold is better than nothing. Land at Kragen, div moves to Sorberia (hate spelling that base), 2 brigades begin moving to Batavia. Fighters land at Kragen for CAP. Aviation Reg moves to one of the level 4 bases with Brigades. Once taken, well, it is just about over then. Land 20,000+ supply with your invasion.

Escort with surface combat forces, support with CarDiv2 and all available air power.

John 3rd -> RE: Strategic Vision (1/1/2009 6:17:47 PM)

These are some of the discussion emails going back-and-forth between Brad and me this morning:

Good Morning. Hope your 'Irish Flu' is survivable! :>

Answers to queries:
1. I agree with converting a Nate unit in SE Asia. Have you expanded Oscar production? We need as many of those as possible.
2. I was going to lift that CD and NLF at Saipan but am unsure as to where it should go. Probably Tarawa or Wake...
3. We could try to handle Rabaul with just SSF. Would love to keep the Inf Div intact for an immediate landing at Port Moresby. If we don't have to use the Inf Div then there shold be no reason NOT to send it to PM. It could shave 10 days off the timetable.

If they are lifting Lark out of Rabaul then that means a BIGGER bag at PM!

4. The diversion of the two Naval Guard units towards Wake is JUST IN CASE I cannot take it with forces present. The Base Force that is in the hex doesn't have any real combat punch so am not sure of its value in landing it. Not sure as to what I want to do. Could order the BF to Land--triggering the Shock Attack--while hitting the base with a Nvl Bomb and air strike.

New Thoughts:
1. CarDiv2--I want to combine the CA TF and a CL TF at Palau to then join the carriers. When that happens I THINK we should be sending them into the iO for convoy hunting. We know that they will be evacuating forces and they would be vulnerable to attack. What do you think?

I would feel more comfortable if there was a CVL carrying just Zeros to augment their CAP protection. Perhaps when Shoho gets completed she can join CarDiv2 with a Claude (upgraded to Zero) Daitai onboard her?

2. I see that your Malaya Invasion will be at 4 Inf Div within a few days. GO GET THEM!

3. I moved a Chutai of Nells to Bangkok to hit those evacuating APs at Tavoy. We got lucky with that strike flying yesterday. I screwed up because I converted that DB Sentai (in Bangkok) to Lily and didn't set it to Naval Attack.

4. With 4 Inf Div landing in the Philippines do you think there is any REAL chance of a quick knockout? Is that even possible?

I'm going to post this on the AAR so people can see our discussion

We also need to talk about the economy. What is your schedule today? "I do not fail, I succeed at what doesn't work" - Unknown


I sent the turn. Those surface TF's are running low on gas and are all out of torps, so time for everyone to head to port.

Glen sighted what appears to be an AP/AK headed to San Fran. I wish it was a BB, but we are going to take a shot anyway.

I am going to post a couple strategy questions on the forum. Please see and comment.

1. We are close to having 36 Oscars. I would like to use those on some Nates in SE Asia if that's OK. Should convert next turn.
2. Please feel free to inspect my work. I took a look around your area, looks good, couple questions though:
*5thNLF and a CD unit were at Saipan. I loaded them up for Truk along with supplies. Put them back if you want to, but no reason to sit at Saipan. The NLFs are good for clearing unoccupied bases.
*At RABAUL, I would maybe ONLY unload South Seas, and not the Division; keep that division in good shape. I have a hunch Rabaul will be empty save for the base force. Playing around, you can lift out the Lark Batt. pretty easily using Catalinas from Port Moresby, along with the Hudsons. You don't have to pay any PPs for this. I bet that's what they are doing. That is probably why you see zero Nav Search. There is no NGVR unit anymore in this version of Big B, just Lark Batt. and a base force. Rabaul is actually easier than it used to be.
*I see two more SNLF units are headed to Wake. Do you think you need them to take it? It's unfortunate it hasn't fallen, really tough nut.
*66th Nav Gd at Truk has replacements off. I would turn them on to make that unit larger.
*Other than that, looks like a pretty good logistical trail as follow-on out there
*In general, I also think they are running. I think Force Z was withdrawn to India. We would have seen her by now.

Q-Ball -> John's Questions (1/1/2009 6:45:35 PM)

Here are my answers to John:

1. Yes, we expanded Oscar, target of 150 I think....may revisit this.
3. RE Rabaul: Agreed, I bet SSF is enough. If I were the Allies, I would lift out that Lark Force, but then move it by ship from PM. But that's just me. I bet you can just keep going straight for PM, using the base at Rabaul as cover. I think you need a Zero Daitai out there though just in case. There is one unit that can ruin your day: That A-24 unit that is loaded on a transport in SW Pac Dec 7th. They can unload that and move to PM. It's pretty brittle though, no replacement planes, and poor base force support in any case.

4. RE WAKE: I wouldn't land the BF until your troops are rested. You have had terrible luck there. You need to hurry, because I would bet anything the USN CVs are gathering at Pearl. They know KB is off to the south. That is alot of targets around Wake! Don't be surprised to see US CVs within 2-3 days. Wake could turn into a disaster if that happens.

New Thoughts:
1. RE IO RAID BY CAR DIV 2: Sound idea, as I said before, they will not take on KB head-on right now. Combining them with KB won't add much. The other alternative, is to combine them with KB, but rotate the CVs to limit Ops damage. But i would rather raid.

Another good idea; is that gamey, or within the house rules?

2. RE MALAYA: That's the plan! Attacking Alor Star tommorow, may have a chance IF weather clears and bombs disrupt the Indians

3. RE BANGKOK: Forgot to mention, I moved a bunch of idle Sallys as well there. Can't hurt. Should finish the job.

Don't think so, unless they botch it and I can split the troops. I have never seen the PI fall early though.

Early Landing on Java

2ndACR's comments are sound. I think this looks like a plan! So far we have left 21st Div in place, but I forgot about that formation....that should be added if John's OK. They could invade Vietnam, but I doubt it; it triggers a nice IJA reinforcement, and they don't have the PPs to convert Chinese units. (per house rule).

We can leave Manila in our rear, but NOT Java. We have to close it out before heading to India. Starting next turn, we are prepping full-bore for Java.

Car Div 2 and Baby KB combined can get us ashore without too much damage at Kragen. The sooner we go, the fewer air resources will be available to the Allies.

ny59giants_MatrixForum -> RE: Strategic Vision (1/1/2009 7:03:44 PM)


I hate to expose Palembang to air attacks on the Oil, but that airbase is key to supporting a landing at Merak (one at Kragen I would have to use Baby KB). I am trying to think FAST, though, so we can get on with India early.

Since you have too many needs for your limited Zeros and too many other fighters, I would land 3 to 6 Construction and a BF at Toboali. Even though the AF is 0(1), it does have is own Resource center (270). Once it reaches size 1, then you can LRCAP Palembang (2 hexes away) and/or Merak (3 hexes away). If you get it to size 2 AF, then Batavia is only 3 hexes away. You will have Kuching with your Nells and possibly some Zeros to keep you safe while you build this base up quickly, if needed.

Palembang just needs to be isolated. Bomb the ground units to damage the engineers to prevent the Oil center getting damaged once you take the base. Once northern Java is captured, you can bomb Soerabaja AF to close it down and leave the Allies with no place to base B-17s from to hit Palembang.

John 3rd -> RE: John's Questions (1/1/2009 7:13:26 PM)

I am fearful about a Wake counter-move too.  I am going to wait for 2 days with the CAs bombarding and add a Nell Daitai to help.  In two days I will order the Base Force to land in conjunction with a Shock Attack.  THAT should do it.

Using Shoho to carry only Zeros is perfectly fine.  After Midway the Japanese planned to use a CVL as a CAP carrier.  That was supposed to have been Zuiho's job at Santa Cruz.  The glory of this possiblity is to then use Shoho's 18 Zero and 12 Kate on other Cvs to strengthen their air groups. 

CarDiv2 will rest at Amboina for 2-3 days until the screen can be reinforced with 1 CA, 1 CL, and 5 DD.  Once done resting these shuips will move out between Timor and Australia.  They will move towards the NW Coast of Australia and then sweep NE towards Java.  My hope is to catch TF moving back and forth between these areas.

I think I'll load up Tracker with the current turn to see just how much our aircraft industry is expanding.   Got to make sure we have enough Zero/Oscar coming in.  It looks like the work Brad has done should be enough buit it is always good to check.

As to Tony/Tojo Research, we need to figure which plane to concentrate on for the future.  IF we can bring one in a month or two early then that will really help with life.  particularly if we are 'decisively engaged' within India!

Java needs to be dealt with ASAP.  I concur with 2nd ACR and you are your planning.  Be CAREFUL with the Baby-KB in covering your movements to the landing.  The Dutch have an awful lot of bombers...  Perhaps you can cover from the north while I strike from the south with CarDiv2?  Where shall we land--Merak or Kragen???

John 3rd -> RE: John's Questions (1/1/2009 7:17:06 PM)

Mike has a great thought there!  Problem is we have moved many of our Construction Btn east to Truk and Kwajalein.  There are a couple of Engineering Regiments still in Samah that might be usable. 

I am concerned about not taking Palembang; however, it cannot be bombed if the Allies still hold it.  Mike is right on that thoughtline.

Will go into the current turn and pull some screenshots...

2ndACR -> RE: Strategic Vision (1/1/2009 7:22:58 PM)

If you use the 21st and 38th Div, well you really speed up Java's fall.........I would shift the 21st brigade to Palembang, and bring both divs into Kragen along with the other brigade. That gives you roughly 1000AV right there, and another 300 if you airlift Palemband's brigade into Merak. Load 1 of the div's in the small AP's and the other into your large AP's. Say the 21st combat loaded for fast unload and the 38th loaded as a floating reserve to be commited once the port is secured.

If everything goes really smooth, well you may not even need to land the 38th and it can be prepping for India. So just thinking out loud.

You will have the following........

38th Div
21st Div
2 Div's from the PI area
2-4 Div's from Malaya
6-8 Armor Reg
2-3 large Brigades
4-6 Engineer Reg

Roughly 2600 AV right there freed up by early Feb 42...........if no snags show up........available to hit India. I used the lower estimates on troops to figure AV.......6 Div and 2 Brigades.........Very respectable force.

I predict Java landing commence around 25 Dec 41 if shipping is available nearby. But would bet heavily on 1 Jan 42 though. 1 Jan allows you more time to gather, plan etc. I would be buying every Engineer reg out of Manchuria. They are better used to build up your bases than sitting in Manchuria. Only needed there if you are going for Russia. Troops and Const Bn can build the forts.

Java falls late Jan 42, Malaya will fall mid Jan and the PI will be decided mid Jan 42.

Palembang can be hit at the same time as Java landing.......force them to choose, hit oil or shipping. I would para land Merak and airlift Palembang force.

ny59giants_MatrixForum -> RE: John's Questions (1/1/2009 7:23:47 PM)


As to Tony/Tojo Research, we need to figure which plane to concentrate on for the future. IF we can bring one in a month or two early then that will really help with life. particularly if we are 'decisively engaged' within India!

Another "free" Tracker lesson for Sir John! [:D]


2ndACR -> RE: John's Questions (1/1/2009 7:28:39 PM)

Tojo looks to be the better a/c to me.......great altitude and climb rate......armament is tied but Tony is better durability and extended range.

ny59giants_MatrixForum -> RE: John's Questions (1/1/2009 7:29:48 PM)

If 2nd ACR is correct on the forces you have available, it is only 3 days at full speed from Saigon to Mershing. Rather than push his troops into Singapore, cut them off before they get there. 

2ndACR -> RE: John's Questions (1/1/2009 7:34:50 PM)

I know they have the 21st avail right now.......the 38th once HK falls.......I have not seen 2 heavy Brigades used yet. Or I missed it.

I just hate to suggest landing on top of one of the Aus brigades.

Q-Ball -> RE: John's Questions (1/1/2009 7:57:36 PM)



Tojo looks to be the better a/c to me.......great altitude and climb rate......armament is tied but Tony is better durability and extended range.

I already invested mostly in Tojo; it will be around 70/30 Tojo/Tony. They are close in ability, the clincher is that the Tojo is a better production choice: Naka engines can be used for models other than Tojo, allowing more flexibility, unlike Tony, which are a dead-end. If we get that far, Tojo also auto-upgrades to Frank. Tony doesn't.

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