MTW XL MOD Greatest Mod Ever! (Full Version)

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ravinhood -> MTW XL MOD Greatest Mod Ever! (1/13/2008 1:30:05 AM)

I finally took the time and let my computer download the XL Mod for the origional Medieval Total War and I am so impressed with this mod. What a great challenge it made for the already great game of MTW (origional). I always liked to play the Danes and I liked to jump down into upper Europe and used to always easily take those provinces. Woah to my amazement and excited joy these provinces rebel on you early and you have to fight some huge tough battles to keep them. I had to give up one of the provinces to two huge stacks that appeared in one of them of rebels. I manage barely to take and get enough men to the other one to hold it, but, now I am starring at those double stacks next to me and of course all the surrounding territory is occupied by other factions and their units. No more freebies in this version of MTW like there used to be. :)

If you don't have the XL mod for the origionl MTW I suggest taking the time to download it. I had always heard about it but it's a pretty large download for us dialupers, but, worth every minute of the wait now I see. ;)




mikul82 -> RE: MTW XL MOD Greatest Mod Ever! (1/13/2008 1:53:18 AM)

I just started playing with this as well...  After spending most of my TW time with Rome and Medieval II, I was amazed when I went into a roughly equal battle with the AI, expecting to annihilate them like you can armies 3x the size of your own in Rome or M2, and actually LOST!  The AI moved it's infantry after my center, kept it's overwhelming archer superiority back and firing into my troops (as opposed to suicide charging like in Rome and M2- their missile superiority and ability to actually use it is what destroyed my army), used it's cavalry to chase after my own archers, and KEPT IT'S GENERAL AWAY FROM THE BATTLE!  It was amazing to see, and reminded me why Rome was uninstalled pretty quickly after I got it, but I kept on playing Medieval 1 for years after Rome came out.

The only reason I play Rome now is for the awesome Europa Barbarorum mod, which combined with a mod to include "Darth Formations" allows the AI to put up something of a fight, but I still don't think I've ever lost a battle in it.  Medieval II was uninstalled a couple of weeks after I got it, reinstalled for a mod that seemed nice but wouldn't work correctly, and uninstalled again, probably until Europa Barbarorum 2 comes out, or another Medieval 2 mod with half decent battle AI.  I want my $50 back, and to hell with PC Gamer for their "Best Game EVAR!!!" review of M2 that made it think it could actually live up to the original Medieval (and didn't mention any of the glaring bugs that weren't fixed for a good 4+ months after the game was released. [:@]

My new game criteria is: If PC Gamer rates it 85 or above, I avoid it like the plague. Gotta love bribery after getting screwed on both Medieval 2 and Oblivion (the Halo Kid version of Morrowind).




ravinhood -> RE: MTW XL MOD Greatest Mod Ever! (1/13/2008 3:41:48 AM)

Hey now I like Oblivion, but, it doesn't mean I dislike Morrowind. What I like about Oblivion most is it sorta brought back the fun of combat like Daggerfall has. I like the action jackson combat in Oblivion and spend a lot of my time in the gladiator battles of the arena. I haven't even hardly explored the rest of the world from just playing around in the opening city. I downloaded the garden mod and I have my own garden of all kinds of ingredients for potions, that is one kewl mod. I also spend a lot of time sneaking into houses and stealing stuff. It's wild how the guards come if you get caught for the least little infraction. And how can you not like the talking NPC's? Of course it's not Morrowind, but, Morrowind wasn't Daggefall either and I still think Daggerfall overall is the best of the pack because of the 150,000 square mile world it generates. ;)




mikul82 -> RE: MTW XL MOD Greatest Mod Ever! (1/13/2008 3:58:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Hey now I like Oblivion, but, it doesn't mean I dislike Morrowind. What I like about Oblivion most is it sorta brought back the fun of combat like Daggerfall has. I like the action jackson combat in Oblivion and spend a lot of my time in the gladiator battles of the arena. I haven't even hardly explored the rest of the world from just playing around in the opening city. I downloaded the garden mod and I have my own garden of all kinds of ingredients for potions, that is one kewl mod. I also spend a lot of time sneaking into houses and stealing stuff. It's wild how the guards come if you get caught for the least little infraction. And how can you not like the talking NPC's? Of course it's not Morrowind, but, Morrowind wasn't Daggefall either and I still think Daggerfall overall is the best of the pack because of the 150,000 square mile world it generates. ;)


I'm just not of the mindset that a player should have any real control over an RPG character... A level 30 fighter should be able to massacre everything in his path, even if a brain damaged 90 yr old with alzheimers is playing him/her, whereas a level 1 pilgrim should be losing to anything stronger than an ant, even if played by a 14 yr old ADD stricken Halo Kid. IMO RPGs should be more about playing a character than an "immersive FPS game", which again IMO Oblivion fails miserably at- it was really just a first-person Diablo with extended stats, and once again IMO "action game with stats" does not equal "RPG".

;)

Edit: If you want, I'll PM you my Oblivion Review for the game website I haven't quite launched it- it sums up my feelings on the game (Not all bad!) and would probably be amusing to you to boot [:D]




ravinhood -> RE: MTW XL MOD Greatest Mod Ever! (1/13/2008 4:08:01 AM)

Oh I forgot to tell you I downloaded the mod that eliminated that leveling combat feature. Things were stronger and weaker than you. I forget his name, but, it's a great mod that allows you to play Oblivion like others where you are stronger and weaker not equal to everything everytime you level. Why pm? Just post the link so everybody can read it. ;)

Oh and the one thing I've always had an issue with the entire Arena line is the leveling system itself. I have to actually be careful not to increase my attribues in one skill before I bring them up in another or I can level past the abilities I want to be high. Like sneaking all the time can really level you up fast, though your other stats like slashing or blocking or armor take a nose dive and you lose points by not leveling those up everytime if you are a warrior type class. I love to sneak though and steal, but, I have to watch my sneak attribute and when it gets close to going up a point since it is one of my majors I have to stop sneakin (like Golum lol). I always want maximum hit points for all my characters so I always have to be careful on how I level to get the most every level. ;)




mikul82 -> RE: MTW XL MOD Greatest Mod Ever! (1/13/2008 4:09:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Oh I forgot to tell you I downloaded the mod that eliminated that leveling combat feature. Things were stronger and weaker than you. I forget his name, but, it's a great mod that allows you to play Oblivion like others where you are stronger and weaker not equal to everything everytime you level. Why pm? Just post the link so everybody can read it. ;)


I would but I don't have it up and running yet, my review is just a text file saved in my "Project X" folder ;) The level scaling was one of my major peeves with the game, I agree combat was much more fun with a mod that got rid of it (I used "Obscuro's Oblivion Overhaul, I think there were other ones as well).




ravinhood -> RE: MTW XL MOD Greatest Mod Ever! (1/13/2008 4:14:39 AM)

That's the name of it Obscuro's Oblivion Overhaul, great mod.




Zakhal -> RE: MTW XL MOD Greatest Mod Ever! (1/13/2008 1:21:40 PM)

None of the old total works work with my 8xxx series graphics card. In the battle mousecursor just stops working or somthing. 




ravinhood -> RE: MTW XL MOD Greatest Mod Ever! (1/13/2008 1:26:43 PM)

Did you try adjustig your anisotropic filtering Zakhal? I had that issue myself with my nvidia card, but, once I manually set the anisotropic setting to 8x it worked perfectly. Also try typing or using -wincursor after the .exe in the startup icon. Make a shortcut icon of the .exe and then right click on that and up at the top where it says like C:\Program files\Activisiion\Total War.exe after that .exe use a space then type -wincursor if the anisotropic setting of 8x doesn't work.




Skeleton -> RE: MTW XL MOD Greatest Mod Ever! (1/13/2008 3:52:55 PM)

Would you Ravinhood, or anyone else for that matter, know of any mods for MTW2 on the horizon, that would make it playable? Do you know if the RTR team has plans to do anything? MTW2 was on my hard drive for all of a week before I shelfed it. How can MadMinute, with their limited resources produce a similiar game (in respect to the combat element) that is so dynamic and good, but CA cannot? Sad, as I actually enjoyed Shogun and the First MTW (with the XL MOD) and to a lesser degree the Rome Total Realism Mod but have sworn not to make another purchase from CA until I find them in the baragin bin and have knowledge of a mod that makes it worth my time.




Reiryc -> RE: MTW XL MOD Greatest Mod Ever! (1/13/2008 5:58:22 PM)

Do you fine that the oscuro mod causes crashes?  I've looked it up and some people love it, but they say it seems to cause crashes the longer you play the mod.  What's been your experience with it - regarding crashes and how many hours would you say you've invested in playing the mod?




mikul82 -> RE: MTW XL MOD Greatest Mod Ever! (1/13/2008 10:08:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marcus the leper

Would you Ravinhood, or anyone else for that matter, know of any mods for MTW2 on the horizon, that would make it playable? Do you know if the RTR team has plans to do anything? MTW2 was on my hard drive for all of a week before I shelfed it. How can MadMinute, with their limited resources produce a similiar game (in respect to the combat element) that is so dynamic and good, but CA cannot? Sad, as I actually enjoyed Shogun and the First MTW (with the XL MOD) and to a lesser degree the Rome Total Realism Mod but have sworn not to make another purchase from CA until I find them in the baragin bin and have knowledge of a mod that makes it worth my time.


Both of these look promising, Broken Crescent has been in the "about to be released any day now" state since Sept (and it isn't dead), and DotS is probably a good 6 months away.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=346

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=492

If neither can improve much on the AI (both on the strategy map and in battles) then I still don't see much point in playing them though, I guess time will tell.

Deus lo Vult and The Long Road were both pretty good as well, although both liked to crash my computer too often for me to stick with them- most people didn't seem to have the crashes though.


Also, if you haven't tried Europa Barbarorum for Rome yet, you really should, it makes RTR look like Command and Conquer ;) www.europabarbarorum.com




ravinhood -> RE: MTW XL MOD Greatest Mod Ever! (1/14/2008 1:10:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Reiryc

Do you fine that the oscuro mod causes crashes?  I've looked it up and some people love it, but they say it seems to cause crashes the longer you play the mod.  What's been your experience with it - regarding crashes and how many hours would you say you've invested in playing the mod?


Hrmmm I've had the mod in since I purchased Oblivion and I'd say I got 100 hours or more of game time in it now and no crashes here. But, as I said I've pretty much just played in the origional city with a few excursions around other places, not too many dungeons though, so, I can't really say it's that stable as I haven't explored the entire map at all. I think I'm around level 10 or 11 atm. I don't play it everyday though.

As for a mod for M2TW? I have no idea what is a good one for it. I too pretty much gave up on M2TW after I discovered the AI doesn't protect it's cities or castles with any sizeable forces and once I held off the AI long enough to get a full stack out there I could do anything with it became just like RTW, it became just taking cities and castles one after the other with hardly anything to worry about. I then tried one of what I thought would be the hardest as Hungary and did the same thing and it even seemed easier than playing the Danes. The AI is just braindead and it isn't aggressive enough nor protects its rear at all. Even playing the gain 2 for 1 type play I did for awhile always leaves me ahead in the end. The other bad thing is playing on vh strategic the AI has wayyyyy too much money that you can plunder when you sack a city/castle. I was getting anywhere from 50k to 75k per sack and that made it very easy to keep churning out replacement forces to continue on an on doing the same to each nation after the other.

I can tell you the problem with the TW engine these last two games and their expansions. It's not really so much the AI as it is too damn many squares the AI must consider everytime it moves. In Shogun and MTW origional they moved by PROVINCE and the AI could handle that much much better than it can the 10000+ squares in RTW and M2TW. Go back to provinces and RTW and M2TW would have been much more challenging and fun. The AI has a hard enough time winning with 64 squares (chess after all these years) why some idiot from CA thought giving it 10000 squares plus to consider every turn is beyond reasoning. The XL mod for MTW origional makes it so much more challenging I don't think I would consider playing any other TW game now. It's just a waste of time and frustration playing against a braindead strategic AI in them now. I guess it's prefect for a beginner 12 or 13 year old or perhaps any teenager, but, it gives me no challenge or pleasure at all anymore playing them.




mikul82 -> RE: MTW XL MOD Greatest Mod Ever! (1/14/2008 1:38:35 AM)

Bringing back the 2D strategy map from Medieval 1 and Shogun would almost instantly fix all of the strategic AI issues with Rome and M2. The 3D map was an interesting idea but like you said, the AI simply doesn't know how to use it, and ends up leaving a bunch of army stacks all over its territory, but doesn't bother moving them to intercept you when attacked, so you end up sieging capital cities garrisoned with a couple of militias, while a big scary AI army stack on the other side of the same province just stands there looking at your own turn after turn until you finally assault/starve out the defenders.

Of course, good luck convincing the masses out there that going back to a 2D would make for better game, as it then wouldn't have the same "OMG Xtreme 3D!" prettier graphics [:(]




ravinhood -> RE: MTW XL MOD Greatest Mod Ever! (1/14/2008 7:41:36 AM)

Welp RTW and M2TW weren't made for strategists or tactitians or grogs. They did that with Shugun and MTW. They hit the jackpot in the mass market, but, ruined a good series of wargames that would have surpassed anything and everything if they had "just stayed the course". Guess I can't blame them for wanting the money and fame, but, it sure gets tiring to see developers go one way and then another. Triumph Studios is the same with their Age of Wonders series. The first game is pretty good and it just needed a random map feature and some more AI tweaking, but, then they went off on some silly idea that "hey let's make it if you kill this wizard in one castle the whole race dies out". lol What a silly stupid rediculous idea that didn't take the mind of the human player into that equation at all. As I've been playing MTW origional again I don't find the graphics harsh at all. Actually if anything they are crisper and sharper than the 3d models. You can't play the game zoomed in to get the advantage of the 3D graphics anyways. What Creative Assembly and Sega need to do is hire Mad Minute dudes to do the battle programing for RTW2 and MTW3 haha. MM made the best combat engine for real time I've ever seen. It's not a click fest in the sense you have to click click click all the time like you do most regular RTS games. That kind of engine would have made for some great and epic battles in all the Total War series.

It's rather sad when you see what would make the perfect wargame being separated by publishers and developers different directions of programming. So, we continue to wait for that near perfect wargame of the era we enjoy most. I like the Total War model I just hate the way they screwed it up. I'm still waiting on "Combat Mission Campaigns" for that strategic and tactical combination of a WW2 russian front game. I am fearing that it's vaporware though and will not see the light of day now because probably of Steve over at Battlefront and his bigggggggggg mouth, pissed off one of the lead developers and the game has been in the black hole ever since. lol I'm still waiting on an isometric SPWAW remake as well. Like using HPS graphics model, but, still the SPWAW engine. I'm not a big fan of HPS titles for one reason or another (mainly the AI), but, I have always liked their isomectric view of things as far as graphics go. See, just can't ever get the best of all worlds combined into one game. lol




Reiryc -> RE: MTW XL MOD Greatest Mod Ever! (1/14/2008 4:19:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood



Hrmmm I've had the mod in since I purchased Oblivion and I'd say I got 100 hours or more of game time in it now and no crashes here. But, as I said I've pretty much just played in the origional city with a few excursions around other places, not too many dungeons though, so, I can't really say it's that stable as I haven't explored the entire map at all. I think I'm around level 10 or 11 atm. I don't play it everyday though.




Thanks for the info, it's appreciated.




mikul82 -> RE: MTW XL MOD Greatest Mod Ever! (1/14/2008 4:22:24 PM)

The Broken Crescent mod for M2 is out as of today...  I'd give this one a shot Marcus, along with Deus lo Vult.    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=140857




mikul82 -> RE: MTW XL MOD Greatest Mod Ever! (1/14/2008 4:30:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Welp RTW and M2TW weren't made for strategists or tactitians or grogs. They did that with Shugun and MTW. They hit the jackpot in the mass market, but, ruined a good series of wargames that would have surpassed anything and everything if they had "just stayed the course". Guess I can't blame them for wanting the money and fame, but, it sure gets tiring to see developers go one way and then another. Triumph Studios is the same with their Age of Wonders series. The first game is pretty good and it just needed a random map feature and some more AI tweaking, but, then they went off on some silly idea that "hey let's make it if you kill this wizard in one castle the whole race dies out". lol What a silly stupid rediculous idea that didn't take the mind of the human player into that equation at all. As I've been playing MTW origional again I don't find the graphics harsh at all. Actually if anything they are crisper and sharper than the 3d models. You can't play the game zoomed in to get the advantage of the 3D graphics anyways. What Creative Assembly and Sega need to do is hire Mad Minute dudes to do the battle programing for RTW2 and MTW3 haha. MM made the best combat engine for real time I've ever seen. It's not a click fest in the sense you have to click click click all the time like you do most regular RTS games. That kind of engine would have made for some great and epic battles in all the Total War series.

It's rather sad when you see what would make the perfect wargame being separated by publishers and developers different directions of programming. So, we continue to wait for that near perfect wargame of the era we enjoy most. I like the Total War model I just hate the way they screwed it up. I'm still waiting on "Combat Mission Campaigns" for that strategic and tactical combination of a WW2 russian front game. I am fearing that it's vaporware though and will not see the light of day now because probably of Steve over at Battlefront and his bigggggggggg mouth, pissed off one of the lead developers and the game has been in the black hole ever since. lol I'm still waiting on an isometric SPWAW remake as well. Like using HPS graphics model, but, still the SPWAW engine. I'm not a big fan of HPS titles for one reason or another (mainly the AI), but, I have always liked their isomectric view of things as far as graphics go. See, just can't ever get the best of all worlds combined into one game. lol



The only thing I really dislike about MTW battles is that cavalry has no penetrating power whatsoever- they're basically just fast heavy infantry with a strong charge bonus. This wrecks the idea of using them to smash through and disrupt a line like you (sort of) can in RTW, or to the other extreme in M2 where they simply annihilate anything in the path of their charge (watching 20-30 cavalry charge into and nearly destroy 150 heavy infantrymen is kind of amusing).

I agree about CM Campaigns though I figured it long dead :( I do like the HPS games but agree the the AI truly sucks- the Squad Battles games are my favorites, since they come with mainly smaller scenarios that the AI works alright with. The Early American Battles/Civil War games just aren't much fun in single-player, and require the patience of a zen master to PBEM (I really don't like playing them without the "phases" turned on like in the old Battleground games). I have no desire to wait several days for a turn, download it, go into an "offensive fire" phase that I don't need to use, click end turn, email back, and wait yet again.


I would LOVE to see an ancient era game done with the MadMinute command system. Requiring a pre-battle plan similar to the Slitherine games, but on a MUCH larger scale, slower paced, and able to use messengers/trumpets/smoke signals to order units during battle. IMO if a system like this could be modded into RTW or M2 (I'm sure it can't) it would increase the challenge dramatically, and give the AI less chances to look so stupid.




ravinhood -> RE: MTW XL MOD Greatest Mod Ever! (1/14/2008 7:06:04 PM)

When I play RTW I have two full stacks one is a pure melee stack and the other is all LIGHT CAVALRY, you think it's hilarious in M2TW with the heavy cav. You should see my Light Cav stack just rout the board (before I modified the hit points), they would come in from one side or the other or the rear and I'd just setup my melee to stand and hold position. The AI would stupidly charge and then I'd just control my whole stack of cavalry and rout the line. Every battle was the same even the overrated phalanx couldn't stop my cavalry. If they turned to face my cavalry my melee would crush them. It's sad the AI in RTW is so terrible that one just has to give it advantages out the ying yang just for some challenge. Though there really is nothing more fun than watching your cav just overrrun everything and kill those lil boogers from behind. Light cavalry is just too powerful in RTW, I think the cav in MTW is just right myself. The archers in RTW were pretty powerful as well when they worked.

But, the thing I don't understand is, routing units die anyway in all the Total war series, oh maybe a handful gets away. I don't know why they didn't program the AI to stand until there was like 5 or 6 units left then rout. I've routed and slaughtered full units of archers and javilinmen when they could have stood and at least done SOME damage. They are worthless running away. After I modified the hit points and took out morale, mano mano what a change from routing on the hit. Now units DO stand until there's only a handful left and they DO do some damage like I wanted. Removing morale in the Total War series is the best thing for challenge. Great battles lots of deaths on both sides and you feel like you EARNED your victory after playing the battle.

For those that don't know you can go into your Total War preference file and find the line that says "morale" TRUE and change it to FALSE. Play on Medium battle AI and you'll find it's much more fun and challenging just by changing those two things. If you don't want a ton of money for sacking cities/castles change your stratetic game to normal or medium as well. All that happens on vh/vh is the AI gets loads more cash and a morale bonus, but, if you turn off morale it's better than the morale bonus it gets anyways. vh/vh does not make the AI PLAY any better there is one level of difficulty when it comes to how it plays which is stupid. By giving it more resources it just puts more units out on the map, it doesn't make it smarter in how to use them, but, it does push them over on you quicker than say on easy or lower difficulties. You just encounter more stupid stacks than before that's all. ;)




mikul82 -> RE: MTW XL MOD Greatest Mod Ever! (1/18/2008 1:42:45 AM)

A quick update for those asking about MTW2 mods- I finally got Deus lo Vult working properly, and I have to say it's incredible- about 100x better than the game was out of the box. The strategic portion has been made slower paced and in a way that forces the player to plan their moves carefully (mainly due to background scripts that add expenses for things like prolonged sieges, armies standing around outside of cities/castles, and etc), and you can also choose which careers you want your family members to go into, as either governors or military commanders. The battle AI has also improved dramatically- it isn't on Medieval 1's level IMO, but is much better than M2 out of the box or Rome, and has actually defeated me in battles where I was slightly disadvantaged (my army being around the same size but mainly a mass of militia spearmen vs a mix of light cavalry, unarmored swordsmen, and spear militia) because it finally will actually try to flank your lines, as opposed to the vanilla game's "charge up the middle" constant tactic. The AI generals still love to commit suicide though, it'd be nice if that were ever fixed.

I really do recommend this mod, and would say it's worth buying M2 for (the newest DLV mod is for "Kingdoms" only, however the older M2 standalone version is the one I've been playing, and am talking about above). Kudos to the creators of this mod!




orwell -> RE: MTW XL MOD Greatest Mod Ever! (1/18/2008 7:47:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marcus the leper

Would you Ravinhood, or anyone else for that matter, know of any mods for MTW2 on the horizon, that would make it playable? Do you know if the RTR team has plans to do anything? MTW2 was on my hard drive for all of a week before I shelfed it. How can MadMinute, with their limited resources produce a similiar game (in respect to the combat element) that is so dynamic and good, but CA cannot? Sad, as I actually enjoyed Shogun and the First MTW (with the XL MOD) and to a lesser degree the Rome Total Realism Mod but have sworn not to make another purchase from CA until I find them in the baragin bin and have knowledge of a mod that makes it worth my time.


Europa Barbarorum has a mod which, IMO, well outdoes anything RTR has accomplished, and they are porting to EB2. http://www.europabarbarorum.com/index.html

I'm blind, it's already been mentioned above. Oh well.




ravinhood -> RE: MTW XL MOD Greatest Mod Ever! (1/18/2008 12:15:41 PM)

 The sad thing about any mod for RTW is it doesn't improve the AI they just give it more resources or increase the stats. M2TW isn't quite as bad as RTW in the AI department (I think they allowed scripting the AI in M2TW), but, it it still too stupid for veteran experienced gamers I mean to the rediculous stupid levels. I can tolerate Shogun and MTW origional, but, I tried several of the mods others made for RTW (M2TW I just gave completely up on) and found that only the one I made really made a difference in the challenge that "I" wanted. I wanted long battles and lots of deaths with very little routing, those other mods never provided that. The routing issues were still there in others mods and routing was the major issue in RTW to begin with. I don't know why anyone would enjoy 20 second battles or even just 2 minute battles. MTW origional and my mod versions have 45 minute battles. Only dam thing wrong in RTW with that is you can't save those epic battles for viewing later in it like you can MTW and that's another thing that makes MTW origioinal so great. You can save every battle and watch it again an again an again. I have some saved that were over an hour long....what a great game. 




orwell -> RE: MTW XL MOD Greatest Mod Ever! (1/19/2008 12:59:11 AM)

MTW seems to hate me, crashes every time there's a battle in XL, haven't tried just the original yet, but the display seems rather screwed up as well.

Ravinhood, have you tried SPQR? It sounds like something that might hold your interest, though as you said there's only so much that can be modded.




ilovestrategy -> RE: MTW XL MOD Greatest Mod Ever! (1/19/2008 2:59:53 AM)

I like Morrowind, Daggerfall and Oblivion. I can play any of them and have a good time. [:)]




mikul82 -> RE: MTW XL MOD Greatest Mod Ever! (1/19/2008 6:24:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

I like Morrowind, Daggerfall and Oblivion. I can play any of them and have a good time. [:)]


I have to say, in all fairness, that I DO enjoy Oblivion after about (non-exaggerated) 2-3 gigs worth of mods for it. Both in what I was saying here, and in the review of it that I mentioned that isn't online yet, I was only referring to the game straight out of the box and mod-free. Granted, most would probably find it horribly frustratring that a level 1 character in my modded version can generally only survive through a combo of sheer luck and cunning, but this to me makes the game much more entertaining and adds some real incentive to both power that character up through levelling, and seperately complete quests in order to gain money, which becomes much harder to come across.

I loved Morrowind right out of the box- never really played Daggerfall because the computer I had at the time didn't get along with it.




ravinhood -> RE: MTW XL MOD Greatest Mod Ever! (1/19/2008 8:42:27 AM)

I liked Daggerfall best because it really never ended. You never had to follow the storyline, but, you could get 1000's of quests as each an every npc in the game could lead you to one in each town or even outside of town as you just traveled along in any direction. Over 150,000 square miles of adventuring real estate no one in their lifetime would cover. I remember setting out from east to west just to see how long it would take me and never made it. The combat engine then was slashing or thrusting from side to side, diagonally, up and down left and right and quite enjoyable as it made you feel like you were actually fighing a battle and not just hitting a keyboard key. The music when you got into town was usually chipper and there were even year festivals in some towns if you entered them on certain days. The dungeons and crypts and caves were HUGE and you could easily get lost in them if you weren't careful. I remember even the first cave/dungeon took me hours to find the exit. They just don't make them like that anymore. Morrowind was pretty good, but, I just never liked its combat engine after playing Daggerfall. It was nothing more than hold the left mouse button down for a period of time and let go...that was it. The longer you held it down the more damage you did up to a point. Oblivion brought back some of that good old fun of combat in Daggerfall to me. ;) A lot of people don't like Oblivion though because of the leveled mobs feature, but, it was so easily moddable and that was fixed right off.

And yes I tried SPQR mod. It was from that mod actually that I made and enhanced my own mod. He had sort of the right idea, but, the routing was still present. Adding more hit points instead of adjusting the combat stats and turning off morale was the key to success for challenge in the RTW game for me. Taking away upkeep completely (except for naval units as I found the AI more prone to building navy instead of land units in several cases) and taking away turn limits for production like SPQR did made for a very fun and challenging game. The way I modded it though sort of restriccted me to playing one of the three Roman factions and/or the very weak ones as I gave many of the main factions lots of denari to start off with. I got tired of Egypt always being the power to come out of the South East so I beefed up the Selucids somewhat as well and then sometimes the Selucids would be the power, sometimes Egypt and sometimes the Parthians. Egypt was waaaayyy overpowered out of the box. Well maybe not historically, but, historically accurate RTW never was anyways. So, I turned it into a more fun risklike playing game that I enjoy and to hell with history. lol I just like playing with historical UNITS, but, I've never really cared if a game was historically accurate after that.




mikul82 -> RE: MTW XL MOD Greatest Mod Ever! (1/19/2008 10:53:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

I liked Daggerfall best because it really never ended. You never had to follow the storyline, but, you could get 1000's of quests as each an every npc in the game could lead you to one in each town or even outside of town as you just traveled along in any direction. Over 150,000 square miles of adventuring real estate no one in their lifetime would cover. I remember setting out from east to west just to see how long it would take me and never made it. The combat engine then was slashing or thrusting from side to side, diagonally, up and down left and right and quite enjoyable as it made you feel like you were actually fighing a battle and not just hitting a keyboard key. The music when you got into town was usually chipper and there were even year festivals in some towns if you entered them on certain days. The dungeons and crypts and caves were HUGE and you could easily get lost in them if you weren't careful. I remember even the first cave/dungeon took me hours to find the exit. They just don't make them like that anymore. Morrowind was pretty good, but, I just never liked its combat engine after playing Daggerfall. It was nothing more than hold the left mouse button down for a period of time and let go...that was it. The longer you held it down the more damage you did up to a point. Oblivion brought back some of that good old fun of combat in Daggerfall to me. ;) A lot of people don't like Oblivion though because of the leveled mobs feature, but, it was so easily moddable and that was fixed right off.

And yes I tried SPQR mod. It was from that mod actually that I made and enhanced my own mod. He had sort of the right idea, but, the routing was still present. Adding more hit points instead of adjusting the combat stats and turning off morale was the key to success for challenge in the RTW game for me. Taking away upkeep completely (except for naval units as I found the AI more prone to building navy instead of land units in several cases) and taking away turn limits for production like SPQR did made for a very fun and challenging game. The way I modded it though sort of restriccted me to playing one of the three Roman factions and/or the very weak ones as I gave many of the main factions lots of denari to start off with. I got tired of Egypt always being the power to come out of the South East so I beefed up the Selucids somewhat as well and then sometimes the Selucids would be the power, sometimes Egypt and sometimes the Parthians. Egypt was waaaayyy overpowered out of the box. Well maybe not historically, but, historically accurate RTW never was anyways. So, I turned it into a more fun risklike playing game that I enjoy and to hell with history. lol I just like playing with historical UNITS, but, I've never really cared if a game was historically accurate after that.


To even suggest that "Egypt" in Rome out of the box had any semblance of historical accuracy would just be a horror ;)

(not directed at you ravinhood, just a comment)

It was under Ptolemaic rule at the time, not the Scorpion King as depicted in vanilla RTW.




mikul82 -> RE: MTW XL MOD Greatest Mod Ever! (1/19/2008 11:00:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

I liked Daggerfall best because it really never ended. You never had to follow the storyline, but, you could get 1000's of quests as each an every npc in the game could lead you to one in each town or even outside of town as you just traveled along in any direction. Over 150,000 square miles of adventuring real estate no one in their lifetime would cover. I remember setting out from east to west just to see how long it would take me and never made it. The combat engine then was slashing or thrusting from side to side, diagonally, up and down left and right and quite enjoyable as it made you feel like you were actually fighing a battle and not just hitting a keyboard key. The music when you got into town was usually chipper and there were even year festivals in some towns if you entered them on certain days. The dungeons and crypts and caves were HUGE and you could easily get lost in them if you weren't careful. I remember even the first cave/dungeon took me hours to find the exit. They just don't make them like that anymore. Morrowind was pretty good, but, I just never liked its combat engine after playing Daggerfall. It was nothing more than hold the left mouse button down for a period of time and let go...that was it. The longer you held it down the more damage you did up to a point. Oblivion brought back some of that good old fun of combat in Daggerfall to me. ;) A lot of people don't like Oblivion though because of the leveled mobs feature, but, it was so easily moddable and that was fixed right off.

And yes I tried SPQR mod. It was from that mod actually that I made and enhanced my own mod. He had sort of the right idea, but, the routing was still present. Adding more hit points instead of adjusting the combat stats and turning off morale was the key to success for challenge in the RTW game for me. Taking away upkeep completely (except for naval units as I found the AI more prone to building navy instead of land units in several cases) and taking away turn limits for production like SPQR did made for a very fun and challenging game. The way I modded it though sort of restriccted me to playing one of the three Roman factions and/or the very weak ones as I gave many of the main factions lots of denari to start off with. I got tired of Egypt always being the power to come out of the South East so I beefed up the Selucids somewhat as well and then sometimes the Selucids would be the power, sometimes Egypt and sometimes the Parthians. Egypt was waaaayyy overpowered out of the box. Well maybe not historically, but, historically accurate RTW never was anyways. So, I turned it into a more fun risklike playing game that I enjoy and to hell with history. lol I just like playing with historical UNITS, but, I've never really cared if a game was historically accurate after that.


The thing I dislike the most about my heavily modded Oblivion is the same thing that I hated about Morrowind- there is no more "Role Playing" in either of those games than was in Doom 2. They're just action/adventure games with stats really, as all of the dialogue and interaction with every aspect except the combat was exactly the same whether you were playing as a big, dumb brute fighter, or a highly intelligent but wimpy pilgrim.

The reason I tend to rip so hard into Oblivion is because it's horrifying to see it declared as "The new direction of RPG's!"- the closest thing to a good RPG on a computer are the Triumvirate of Fallout 1 and 2, and Planescape: Torment. Those three are the only games I know of in which you can actually design and then play a character to the detail, and still complete the game regardless of their strengths/weaknesses. As in you can create a smooth talking diplomatic type and actually play through the whole game as such, and not realize halfway through that you're screwed because you didn't buff your combat stats up enough. For amusement's sake, try creating a Fallout character with an Intelligence rating of "1" (the lowest), and see what his/her attempt at speaking to other NPCs comes out like! Of course the first sentence of this paragraph is made even worse when you realize that Bethesda is now creating Fallout 3- a series so completely different from the TES games in every fundamental gameplay mechanic I can think of, really does sound from the previews like they're just turning it into Oblivion with Guns. The raping of the Fallout series truly does make me depressed. :(

I know that was OT, sorry.




ravinhood -> RE: MTW XL MOD Greatest Mod Ever! (1/19/2008 12:39:19 PM)

So K my topics are generally general topics anyways. I don't get upset when they swing in another game topic, it's when they turn into flames and fire by a few select ones here (see my signature ;) )that I might say something about. ;) Mainly we are talking about some great games with great mods or what could have made them great and what might make them greater in the long run. I agree with you though that RPG games are getting away from the traditional RPGlike ways many of us grew up with. But, I'm not one of those that really minds as I've never really stayed between the lines when it comes to gaming (or actual life hehe). I like action RPGs as much as I like traditional RPGS. But, I like good ones with good interface and not a lot you have to do to fight the enemy, but, just enough like Daggerfall and Oblivion.

Did you ever try an old commodore 64 game called WASTELAND Mic82? I think that game was the mother/father of the Fall Out series and I've always enjoyed playing that and replaying it. I didn't even mind the text based combat engine in that one, at least it happened then and not a month later in some monthly report page.

I personally miss the turn based RPG games myself. I enjoyed having time to think out the situation and then respond each turn. The Gold Box series of SSI are still some of my favorites and I'll always enjoy Ultima IV and V the best. Ultima II wasn't bad either. But, games like Diablo and Diablo 2, The TES series, I have thouroughly enjoyed. They have the perfect speed of combat and I don't get frustrated cause I only have ONE character I have to control. Unlike the Baldur's Gate series where every battle was like a mish mash trying to keep up and I'm just one of those that WILL NOT use PAUSE in a real time game. lol I guess that's just a pet peave of mine that if it's real time you are cheating yourself and the game and the AI using pause. That's just how I believe and I'll never change, I'm too old. ;)

I can only imagine what the next 20 years of gaming will bring. I hope I live long enough to see just one good game with all the great elements of games of the past in it. A great real time AI to fight the tactical battles from the strategic or operational map true to the Total War series of old. I'm a huge ancients fan and I want more than anything a better RTW game back to provinces instead of these silly 3D maps that the AI can't cope with. One game that is really pretty good at it is "Knights of Honor" but, of course it is set in the Medival times and well one thing I don't like about it is it restricts you to hardly any leaders to make armies out of. You can make armies, but, you can't use them in the field without a leader and you need too many of the leaders for government things. It was a good concept, but, they ruined it with restrictions. The combat AI is great in it I'll give it that, it's stomped me more than a couple of times already. ;) And because I'm not an historical accuracy nut I rather like "Imperial Glory" as well for a real time tactical with turn based strategic overlay in the Napoleonic times. I think it's good not to be a fanatic when it comes to historical accuracy. Not saying tanks should be in ancient egypt, but, as long as the UNITS are historical or even close I can be happy with how the rest of the game pans out even if not historical and just a risklike game to play conquer the world with. ;)




mikul82 -> RE: MTW XL MOD Greatest Mod Ever! (1/19/2008 7:10:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

So K my topics are generally general topics anyways. I don't get upset when they swing in another game topic, it's when they turn into flames and fire by a few select ones here (see my signature ;) )that I might say something about. ;) Mainly we are talking about some great games with great mods or what could have made them great and what might make them greater in the long run. I agree with you though that RPG games are getting away from the traditional RPGlike ways many of us grew up with. But, I'm not one of those that really minds as I've never really stayed between the lines when it comes to gaming (or actual life hehe). I like action RPGs as much as I like traditional RPGS. But, I like good ones with good interface and not a lot you have to do to fight the enemy, but, just enough like Daggerfall and Oblivion.

Did you ever try an old commodore 64 game called WASTELAND Mic82? I think that game was the mother/father of the Fall Out series and I've always enjoyed playing that and replaying it. I didn't even mind the text based combat engine in that one, at least it happened then and not a month later in some monthly report page.

I personally miss the turn based RPG games myself. I enjoyed having time to think out the situation and then respond each turn. The Gold Box series of SSI are still some of my favorites and I'll always enjoy Ultima IV and V the best. Ultima II wasn't bad either. But, games like Diablo and Diablo 2, The TES series, I have thouroughly enjoyed. They have the perfect speed of combat and I don't get frustrated cause I only have ONE character I have to control. Unlike the Baldur's Gate series where every battle was like a mish mash trying to keep up and I'm just one of those that WILL NOT use PAUSE in a real time game. lol I guess that's just a pet peave of mine that if it's real time you are cheating yourself and the game and the AI using pause. That's just how I believe and I'll never change, I'm too old. ;)

I can only imagine what the next 20 years of gaming will bring. I hope I live long enough to see just one good game with all the great elements of games of the past in it. A great real time AI to fight the tactical battles from the strategic or operational map true to the Total War series of old. I'm a huge ancients fan and I want more than anything a better RTW game back to provinces instead of these silly 3D maps that the AI can't cope with. One game that is really pretty good at it is "Knights of Honor" but, of course it is set in the Medival times and well one thing I don't like about it is it restricts you to hardly any leaders to make armies out of. You can make armies, but, you can't use them in the field without a leader and you need too many of the leaders for government things. It was a good concept, but, they ruined it with restrictions. The combat AI is great in it I'll give it that, it's stomped me more than a couple of times already. ;) And because I'm not an historical accuracy nut I rather like "Imperial Glory" as well for a real time tactical with turn based strategic overlay in the Napoleonic times. I think it's good not to be a fanatic when it comes to historical accuracy. Not saying tanks should be in ancient egypt, but, as long as the UNITS are historical or even close I can be happy with how the rest of the game pans out even if not historical and just a risklike game to play conquer the world with. ;)



I've tried playing Wasteland on a previous computer with DosBox and it never would work right- I was probably 6 years old when it came out so missed out on that one ;) It really looked interesting though, just liked to freeze the computer too often to stick with.

I missed the Gold Box games as well, but used to play Ultima: Exodus on my Nintendo and now have it surprisingly up and running on this same computer. I fully intend to play Ultima 3-7 entirely before I die, so I've probably got a while to go with that goal. I hear you as well on the "Infinity Engine" games (Baldur's Gate and etc), I despise the combat so much in those games that it almost wrecks the fun! "Real Time with Pause!" just seemed to me like trying to cater to the twitch crowd while still allowing yourself to list "turn based combat" as a feature without mentioning the half-assery that it actually was. I never got much into BG, but Planescape: Torment is one of my favorite games, and well worth suffering through that combat engine for (it isn't as hack and slash oriented as BG either).

Now of course the beloved Fallout franchise has been "resurrected" under the same guy who I believe was quoted as saying something like "Role playing, to me, is about riding around on a horse and killing things". That would Mr. Todd "Soil Erosion!" Howard, of course. Most of the Fallout 3 official previews I've heard usually ramble on about the "Extreme ultra violence giving the game an adult feel!" (I think they missed the point there), of course the graphics, and the great new combat engine that allows either realtime first person shooter play, or the ability to pause and make it turn based- where have we heard that before? It seems as well like they've just raped the whole storyline/lore behind the game, changing it into the usual fantasy esque "Good guys and bad guys" tripe (Super Mutants = Bad, Brotherhood of Steel = Chivalrous Good Knights- pretty much a total 180 from the original games).

I liked Knights of Honor as well- I just didn't play through the campaign more than a couple of times due to all of the different kingdoms having a kind of generic feel. Playing as Leinster wasn't really any different than playing as the Byzantine Empire, except for a handful of special units being different. You're right on about the restriction on your own leaders (you can only have up to 7 IIRC) was a real problem once you controlled a big chunk of territory- that number really should have increased along with the size of your kingdom! Definitely a fun game but not really loaded with replay value for me.

If there were a "2D Map Mod" for my now favorite Deus lo Vult Medieval 2 mod, I'd jump all over it- the challenge of the game would increase dramatically! It'd be nice if they'd learn the lesson of the AI not using that map properly, but I have a feeling that the upcoming TW Empires game will probably be surrounded by hype like "You can zoom in on the 3D map and see soil erosion it's so detailed!" I predict the usual graphics rambling preceeding that one. [:@]




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