Assault HQ rules coming in a future version

[Aurelian]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Yes, that's why we wanted to move it back to 8 hexes. Most units can reach this limit even if on the front line (except in heavy mud), in one turn. The fact that some units won't be able to do that, is considered a beneficial side effect that would mostly hurt the Soviets. Given the general feeling re game balance, we think this is a positive.

This has been needed for a very long time, even back to the WITE1 days. Excellent addition

Yes. And the change to AHQs looks good.

[Zemke]

Good news!

This process will continue for the life of this game, at least as long as they support it. Remember every change has 2nd and 3rd order effects that will not be known till even more data comes in. But, this is a positive move.

[GibsonPete]

"Yes, that's why we wanted to move it back to 8 hexes. Most units can reach this limit even if on the front line (except in heavy mud), in one turn. The fact that some units won't be able to do that, is considered a beneficial side effect that would mostly hurt the Soviets. Given the general feeling re game balance, we think this is a positive."

I appreciate this change as much as the Assault HQ. Thanks again Joel.

[jlbhung]

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

That said, here are the new rules:

o The command point multipliers for HQs in Assault HQs are now:
Date Axis Army Axis Corps // Soviet Front Soviet Army&Corps
1941 1.34 1.17 // no bonus no bonus
1942 1.34 1.17 // 1.10 1.10
1943 1.34 1.17 // 1.34 1.25
1944 1.34 1.17 // 1.67 1.34
1945 1.34 1.17 // 1.67 1.34

o Limits on maximum number of Assault HQs are now:
Date Axis Soviet
1941 4 2
... ...

I wonder what is the purpose of allowing Soviet side to have 2 Assault HQs in 1941 if they have no bonus. Does the Assault HQ still retain the penalty of max fort level of 1? If so, why should the Soviet side want to use Assault HQs if it will have only penalty and no bonus??

I do not agree totally with the proposed changes and do not wish to argue on it. I also think different people will have different views on the appropriate level of bonus in different period. I wish that the CP bonus be modable by the Editor.

[loki100]

you still retain the 3*CPP bonus, just you can't extend the Command Capacity of the relevant HQs

quite a gain, when (a) you are limited to level 1 forts unless in contact; and, (b) have other commands that can (& should) be the force actually in contact - so you still have a strong defensive line

[MarkShot]

Loki,

I assume these rules will be built into the engine and apply to all scenarios which come with the game?

I had been playing road to Leningrad. Although I had put 85% of the AGN under the 4Pz ASHQ, I could have easily afforded to purchase others at 10 AP per HQ.

So, I hope this is going into the engine itself (all global data). Unlike how a "no sudden death" was simply resolved without a game option, but a separate scenario.

Thanks.

PS: Excuse me if this should have been addressed to Joel. I assumed you are a beta and authorized to discuss any game functionality already in the public domain.

[loki100]

yes, its in the beta patch we are currently testing - see the vs AI AAR I am doing as I discuss what this looks like in practice.

When that is released, not sure.

I understand the intent is to release the current public beta as an official patch first (since some players don't like to use betas etc and that has 90% of the scaling work), I guess some variant of what I (& others) are currently testing will then be available fairly soon after that

Roger

[MarkShot]

Roger,

So far, I have only played scenarios.

The Chinese believe in reincarnation. I am waiting for my rebirth so that I have time to play the '41 Campaign. [:)]

[Joel Billings]

News on a few items. First, yesterday Pavel who is working on the editor now proposed putting the AHQ rules (max number of AHQs and command point multiplier) into the scenario data. That will allow us to alter individual scenario files in the future to limit the number of AHQs in small scenarios. It will also allow players to use the editor to change the rules if they want to. We all agreed that would be a good thing to do. It will assume the default values in existing scenarios, but would then be modifiable. Since the editor work is a big all-inclusive editor upgrade, it will likely be several months before this makes its way to out in an update.

Second, now that the 1.01.09 version has been made official, we expect a 1.01.10 version to go out next week with the last of the in-game scaling. It will be the version after that that will contain the AHQ and disband/to TB changes. I can't say how soon that next update will be released, but it should be within weeks, not months. That version is likely to contain some tweaks to ground combat as well.

So eventually with the changes, AGN in RtL would only be allowed 1 AHQ, and it will only have 36 CP. Of course, that's still quite a bit, but this should be an improvement.

[AlbertN]

Nothing will be done concerning Admin Points?
Soviets can just do leadership laundry in no time for all I can see, changing 2-4 leaders a turn on need presently with their fat slice of 25 AP a turn. (That including upping to Assault 2 Fronts on T1 and T2, without new leaders there).

[jubjub]

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

Nothing will be done concerning Admin Points?
Soviets can just do leadership laundry in no time for all I can see, changing 2-4 leaders a turn on need presently with their fat slice of 25 AP a turn. (That including upping to Assault 2 Fronts on T1 and T2, without new leaders there).

This should be helped somewhat in '41 with the assault HQ capacity changes. It will be less efficient to replace leaders in the assault HQ's.

Second, now that the 1.01.09 version has been made official, we expect a 1.01.10 version to go out next week with the last of the in-game scaling. It will be the version after that that will contain the AHQ and disband/to TB changes. I can't say how soon that next update will be released, but it should be within weeks, not months. That version is likely to contain some tweaks to ground combat as well.

1.01.10 won't have the air base fix right? I want to wait to start new games until that fix is out.

[MarkShot]

Joel,

Whether you establish the rules/consistency via hard coding or data files is fine with me. I just want to know that all content I buy from Matrix is consistent; especially the scenarios (non-campaign). For the moment that is all I have time and skill for. The '41 campaign is something I want to start when the game is nailed down. (I would hate seeing a cool fix/feature released and having to chose between it and throwing away months of my life to restart.)

Thank you for listening to all of us.

[GibsonPete]

I appreciate Pavel's idea on AHQ and my poor eyes look forward to the scaling patch.

[Joel Billings]

If by airbase fix, you mean the captured airbases having higher starting experience, it will be fixed in the version after 1.01.10.

[jlbhung]

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

News on a few items. First, yesterday Pavel who is working on the editor now proposed putting the AHQ rules (max number of AHQs and command point multiplier) into the scenario data. That will allow us to alter individual scenario files in the future to limit the number of AHQs in small scenarios. It will also allow players to use the editor to change the rules if they want to.

Thank you very much for allowing the flexibility to change the Assault HQ rules by Editor. The extra effort is much appreciated.

[thedoctorking]

They also have a bunch of SU to build. I tend to do one army commander a turn and 10-15 SU.

[Yogol]

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

AHQ bonuses are not given out to units that are in overloaded or out of command range units (as per the rules), it's important that you not overload AHQs

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
Limits on maximum number of Assault HQs are now:
Date Axis Soviet
1941 4 2
1942 3 2
1943 3 3
1944 2 4
1945 2 4

My 2 cents?

This is a big, big nerf for the Germans in the Grand Campaign because you will get a whooping 33% less troops under AHQ that can gain extra fighting power by resting a turn or two. 33%!

This will make the Axis grand campaign even harder to do.

...

I wonder if you gather meta-statistics on players: which campaigns they play and after how many turns they give up.

Because I bet a pretty penny that most players play the grand campaign as Axis and stop as soon as they see that they didn't make enough advances to win (and realise that the Russians can magically teleport all over the battlefield and attack them anywhere they want once they counterattack, making a mockery of the front-lines).

I think quite a lot of us don't even play the grand campaign long enough to see the effect of the Russian AHQ nerf.

Nerving the AHQ Germans in such a huge way, isn't going to help that core-problem.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

This is my turn 11 that I currently have on Air Phase. I am trying to advance on well rested Soviets that retreat 4ish hexes a turn. When I advance the Soviets play whack-a-mole on my PZ's with well supplied Armor/Mech divisions then retreats behind the just retreated infantry of 4 hexes. Added to this is the heavy Soviet GA which even further reduces the MP's and inflicts heavy losses. Then rinse and repeat turn after turn and you have PZ divisions down into the 40 TOE along with any other unfortunate brigade of regiment.(I have some brigades and regiments devastated down into the 20's in TOE for Rumania. The Rumanians just disintegrate under any form of attack with super high casulaties) Soviets are well organized, even probably after the coming patch. I may be able to take Kursk and Kharkov but supply is killing me. (I will be showing my full supply situation in my AAR)

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Northern section

In the north the front row Soviet infantry is showing on predictive attack of Soviet units 11-15 with super high defense. My supply in front of Moscow is better but I have to rest a few turns to be able to break the Soviet line which I am sure is 3-4 hexes deep since I have yet to recon the area. Just breaking those Soviets down to take any type of meaningful losses inflicted will take multiple turns and that won't happen with rain coming next turn From my previous attacks the units here are all well led with awesome supply.

****NOTE I am not using Super Depots

[AlbertN]

I've to say that you are very close to Moscow, HYLA.
But by reading your AAR you have a level of mastery of the game that requires time and effort to be built there. And your common and average player won't pour time and investment in a game to get to that level unless maybe it's a game that leads to E-Sports (not the case of Strategy Games turn based).

In general I agree with Yogol that the situation won't really change for the Germans since they get also less push.
The Soviets may not get the extra command limit but Germans lose 2 Assault HQs and extra command capacity.

Pratically the situation will remain unchanged in terms of how many Assault troops are in '41 benefitting of extra CCPs.