New Russian General - Light Mud
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- DesertedFox
- Posts: 375
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New Russian General - Light Mud
How are the germans expected to conduct a Blitzkrieg when on turn 4 there is light mud going from Leningrad all the way down to just south of the Prippet Marshes?
Then on turn 5, it gets better. The light mud goes from Leningrad all the way south to Odesa and Zaporozhye.
The prediction for turn 6 is the rain disappears but the light mud will remain for at least one more turn again from Leningrad to the Black Sea.
So turn 4, 5, and 6 Army groups North and Center screwed with light mud whilst Army group south is in the very enviable position of only being screwed on turns 5 and 6.
The weather model might be realistic but this much mud this early is a guaranteed defeat for the Germans.
Then on turn 5, it gets better. The light mud goes from Leningrad all the way south to Odesa and Zaporozhye.
The prediction for turn 6 is the rain disappears but the light mud will remain for at least one more turn again from Leningrad to the Black Sea.
So turn 4, 5, and 6 Army groups North and Center screwed with light mud whilst Army group south is in the very enviable position of only being screwed on turns 5 and 6.
The weather model might be realistic but this much mud this early is a guaranteed defeat for the Germans.
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RE: New Russian General - Light Mud
The actual weather is randomized. There isn’t a set turn or even hex set for light mud. That being said, light mud is an inherently overcomeable condition that close to the east Prussian supply bases and with the Soviets still in the disarray of the early weeks. Heavy mud is a show stopper - light mud just takes some of the shine off.
- DesertedFox
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RE: New Russian General - Light Mud
I understand the weather is randomized. However in my humble opinion this much light mud, this early does a tad more than take a little of the shine off.
I assume you understand what Leningrad to the Black Sea entails? The date is July, not October.
I assume you understand what Leningrad to the Black Sea entails? The date is July, not October.
RE: New Russian General - Light Mud
ORIGINAL: DesertedFox
I understand the weather is randomized. However in my humble opinion this much light mud, this early does a tad more than take a little of the shine off.
I assume you understand what Leningrad to the Black Sea entails? The date is July, not October.
a) it rained in places, at times, all that summer;
b) light mud should be seen as the norm not the exception
c) so clear becomes a bonus
d) check out the impact on movement and combat of light mud, it can be little but a marginal issue
e) yep, realise what Leningrad to the Black Sea entails ... interesting question is why are you trying to redeploy over such long distances
f) taking Leningrad is hard, takes a fair bit of planning and commitment, and those plans are best made against the expection of rain and poor roads (as affect AGN historically)
- DesertedFox
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RE: New Russian General - Light Mud
yes I know it rained in places throughout the summer. Where did I say it didn't. It certainly never rained across the entire front for weeks on end though in July 41. I understand the randomness of the weather but this is just a tad too much of a penalty for the Germans in July 41. You may it isn't well, we have different opinions on that.
Where did I say I was deploying across the entire front from Leningrad to the Black Sea? What I said was there is rain and light mud from Leningrad to the Black Sea.
And just for the record, I am not deploying across from Leningrad to the Black Sea.
This is a great game but one can get a tad annoyed when any suggestion things may not be 100 % with it and the response is assumptions are made that are incorrect.
As for checking out the penalties for movement and combat, I had already done that. It's not the end of the world, but it's also not a small matter as it greatly impacts the advance and of course
supply and is especially when taken in context this is not in isolated areas but across the entire front.
But nevermind, aparently weeks of rain from north to south in july 41 is acceptable and suggestion otherwise is totally unwarranted. Close the thread please.
Where did I say I was deploying across the entire front from Leningrad to the Black Sea? What I said was there is rain and light mud from Leningrad to the Black Sea.
And just for the record, I am not deploying across from Leningrad to the Black Sea.
This is a great game but one can get a tad annoyed when any suggestion things may not be 100 % with it and the response is assumptions are made that are incorrect.
As for checking out the penalties for movement and combat, I had already done that. It's not the end of the world, but it's also not a small matter as it greatly impacts the advance and of course
supply and is especially when taken in context this is not in isolated areas but across the entire front.
But nevermind, aparently weeks of rain from north to south in july 41 is acceptable and suggestion otherwise is totally unwarranted. Close the thread please.
RE: New Russian General - Light Mud
You can take the rain to your advantage as well. Pz/mot regiment holding a pocket have no chance against Soviet counter attack, with light mud it is different story.
RE: New Russian General - Light Mud
i was happy to see Rain and i am the Russian player on the other end of this and i can say rain as it is Random has rolled Cats eyes. it does seem excessive at this time of the year and rain on the Parade is over the top!
Tigercub
Tigercub
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life
- DesertedFox
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RE: New Russian General - Light Mud
Is there some unseen rule in the game for July 41 because my units do not appear to be paying the extra +1 movement cost when moving into a light mud hex?
And I can assure you that LM hexes are everywhere in great depth, but it appears I am not paying the extra movement cost for LM.
I ran a test and I am paying for the extra LM cost to enter. don't know what it was I was seeing earlier, most likely a move in
strategic mode or something.
And I can assure you that LM hexes are everywhere in great depth, but it appears I am not paying the extra movement cost for LM.
I ran a test and I am paying for the extra LM cost to enter. don't know what it was I was seeing earlier, most likely a move in
strategic mode or something.
RE: New Russian General - Light Mud
For me, the last thing this game needs is anything that makes things MORE difficult for the axis in summer 41 than it was in real life.
It’s in both player’s interests that the axis has a strong opening campaign to give the game drama, and prevent it feeling like too much of a forgone conclusion already after turn 15 of 200 if the axis opening campaign is underwhelming.
So - even as an exclusively soviet player - I sympathise with the OP.
For me, there should be options to disable random weather, at least for the opening 15 turns or so. Then everyone can be satisfied.
It’s in both player’s interests that the axis has a strong opening campaign to give the game drama, and prevent it feeling like too much of a forgone conclusion already after turn 15 of 200 if the axis opening campaign is underwhelming.
So - even as an exclusively soviet player - I sympathise with the OP.
For me, there should be options to disable random weather, at least for the opening 15 turns or so. Then everyone can be satisfied.
- DesertedFox
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RE: New Russian General - Light Mud
This would be the greatest storm ever experienced in Europe. The light mud goes from north to south as previously stated and from the west, of Hannover, yes Hannover near the Rhur, to Kharkov, and all points in between. In the northeast, the mud extends past Moscow all the way to Molotov, 50 hexes east of Moscow.
- DesertedFox
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RE: New Russian General - Light Mud
ORIGINAL: squatter
For me, the last thing this game needs is anything that makes things MORE difficult for the axis in summer 41 than it was in real life.
It’s in both player’s interests that the axis has a strong opening campaign to give the game drama, and prevent it feeling like too much of a forgone conclusion already after turn 15 of 200 if the axis opening campaign is underwhelming.
So - even as an exclusively soviet player - I sympathise with the OP.
For me, there should be options to disable random weather, at least for the opening 15 turns or so. Then everyone can be satisfied.
I absolutely agree squatter. I am a soviet fan myself but want to get an idea of how the Axis plays. This is most likely the only game I will play as Axis.
The Axis player needs a good 41 otherwise the game degenerates into an easy Soviet win.
RE: New Russian General - Light Mud
I agree with what of the above, that it seems a rather rainy summer to begin with.
And Axis has already an overwhelming amount of difficulties from my perspective. (Which will snowball in turn due to how the game is designed netting Soviet avalanche well in advance).
And Axis has already an overwhelming amount of difficulties from my perspective. (Which will snowball in turn due to how the game is designed netting Soviet avalanche well in advance).
RE: New Russian General - Light Mud
A few comments:
1) You are experiencing bad luck if you have light mud over the entire front. This rarely happens in the June - August time frame. It is, however, very common that light mud will exist in at least part of the front at all times during this period.
2) Light mud is not that large of an effect on anything. You get used to it and are able to continue driving forward - especially the Axis in 41. It will increase your movement losses a small bit and the movement costs in bad terrain - but these are areas that the Axis will be slow in even in good weather.
3) The Axis can continue driving forward in light mud conditions in 41 and causing large Soviet losses - remember the movement penalties goes both ways in a human vs human game (not so in an AI - human game if AI can teleport).
1) You are experiencing bad luck if you have light mud over the entire front. This rarely happens in the June - August time frame. It is, however, very common that light mud will exist in at least part of the front at all times during this period.
2) Light mud is not that large of an effect on anything. You get used to it and are able to continue driving forward - especially the Axis in 41. It will increase your movement losses a small bit and the movement costs in bad terrain - but these are areas that the Axis will be slow in even in good weather.
3) The Axis can continue driving forward in light mud conditions in 41 and causing large Soviet losses - remember the movement penalties goes both ways in a human vs human game (not so in an AI - human game if AI can teleport).
- HardLuckYetAgain
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RE: New Russian General - Light Mud
ORIGINAL: DesertedFox
This would be the greatest storm ever experienced in Europe. The light mud goes from north to south as previously stated and from the west, of Hannover, yes Hannover near the Rhur, to Kharkov, and all points in between. In the northeast, the mud extends past Moscow all the way to Molotov, 50 hexes east of Moscow.
This has been my experience with "Light Mud" over the whole of the Soviet Union. If this was just isolated to certain small sections of the map then no big deal. But when the WHOLE of Mother Russia is covered in this crap it does add up as DesertedFox says.
P.S. Nice seeing you again DesertedFox
German Turn 1 opening moves. The post that keeps on giving https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1&t=390004
- HardLuckYetAgain
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RE: New Russian General - Light Mud
ORIGINAL: carlkay58
A few comments:
1) You are experiencing bad luck if you have light mud over the entire front. This rarely happens in the June - August time frame. It is, however, very common that light mud will exist in at least part of the front at all times during this period.
2) Light mud is not that large of an effect on anything. You get used to it and are able to continue driving forward - especially the Axis in 41. It will increase your movement losses a small bit and the movement costs in bad terrain - but these are areas that the Axis will be slow in even in good weather.
3) The Axis can continue driving forward in light mud conditions in 41 and causing large Soviet losses - remember the movement penalties goes both ways in a human vs human game (not so in an AI - human game if AI can teleport).
@1 I seem to experienced light mud over the entire front or almost the entire map myself. I mentioned it in my AAR games but left it alone after the mention. You can check out those AAR which I have many.
@2 that little effect adds up quick if you keep adding to it 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1=XX and if keep adding can equal a very big number of negative events across the whole front
@3 Don't disagree the knife cuts both ways.
German Turn 1 opening moves. The post that keeps on giving https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1&t=390004
- DesertedFox
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- Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 10:13 am
RE: New Russian General - Light Mud
Hi Hardluck, yeah mate nice to swap a line with you again. Once one of the most competent and nicest opponents I have ever had the privilege of kicking my arse..lol. I have been following your AARs with interest.
Absolutely agree that LM presents difficulties for Russia as well apart from what is mentioned above I believe it may slow down fort construction. However, the Germans are at a greater disadvantage in comparison.
Germany needs to tick a lot of boxes in 41 to make the game competitive into 42. I am playing a Russian game as well at turn 9 and I don't even register the LM to date it's been so scarce, which I like.
I told Tiger I didn't want a restart as this is about me getting a handle on German abilities so I will cop whatever is thrown at me. However, as a Russian player, I would gladly offer a restart to my opponent if he copped this much light mud this early.
I appreciate the work and help Loki has done so much for many games with Matrix and I want to emphasise the respect I have for him. I disagree with him on this account, that it's not a big blow for the Germans in this instance.
Absolutely agree that LM presents difficulties for Russia as well apart from what is mentioned above I believe it may slow down fort construction. However, the Germans are at a greater disadvantage in comparison.
Germany needs to tick a lot of boxes in 41 to make the game competitive into 42. I am playing a Russian game as well at turn 9 and I don't even register the LM to date it's been so scarce, which I like.
I told Tiger I didn't want a restart as this is about me getting a handle on German abilities so I will cop whatever is thrown at me. However, as a Russian player, I would gladly offer a restart to my opponent if he copped this much light mud this early.
I appreciate the work and help Loki has done so much for many games with Matrix and I want to emphasise the respect I have for him. I disagree with him on this account, that it's not a big blow for the Germans in this instance.
RE: New Russian General - Light Mud
I'm no coder, but I would have thought it would be a fairly easy job to create a 'historic summer 41 weather' campaign scenario variant?
RE: New Russian General - Light Mud
I echo the sentiments that the randomness can be brutal. Is it cool? Yes. But there should be an option for historical.
Paradox Interactive Forum Refugee
RE: New Russian General - Light Mud
ORIGINAL: squatter
I'm no coder, but I would have thought it would be a fairly easy job to create a 'historic summer 41 weather' campaign scenario variant?
What is historic summer 41 weather? As have been already pointed it was raining all the time. Mostly local storms/showers but mud have been present.
But I tend to agree that for 2 weeks having mud on 1/3 - 1/2 hexes is too much.
RE: New Russian General - Light Mud
Not an experienced WiTE2 player, but have played ('41 campaign scenario) as the German vs AI Russian (against normal 100 morale Russian AI) through the end of 1941 4 or 5 times now, and have mostly experienced light mud on a very large area of the map in late July through August. Possibly just bad luck on weather rolls, but it adds up to a very long slog feeling with not a lot of hope for successful advances from mid-September on for the Axis. I would like to try a historical weather mod also if it could be added to the game.
JRR