Subs Attacking MMs - Manual Clarification

[ago1000]

Sorry for the long post.[:)]

From an Alternate Post

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

subs fire on merchants
escorts fire on subs,
subs have a chance to kill an escort,
sub hunter rules adds bonuses to escorts killing subs

Convoy Attacks
Round 1: subs fire on merchants (p. 81 Applies)
Round 2: escorts fire on subs, subs have a chance to kill an escort, sub hunter rules adds bonuses to escorts killing subs (p. 82 applies)
(trying to make it easier to understand so I set it up similar to land combat)

With regard to Subs "Fire on Merchants":

I'm trying to understand the manual, and put some statements together regarding the Convoy attack.

(p.21)Escorts protect convoys from submarine units attacking them. Escorts have no effect on non-submarine naval fleets nor can they be affected by them.
Only subs have a small chance of sinking an escort during the convoy attack calculations.

Question: Is (p. 21) simply a general generlization of Rounds 1 and 2? or does it apply particularly to one of them?


(P. 81) NAVAL PRODUCTION/OIL CONVOY ATTACKS (Round 1 for me)
Naval units in convoy lanes attack production and oil points with their SURFACE COMBAT VALUE. (q 2)
If the fleet is a carrier fleet, then it attacks with its air bombing values.
ALL NAVAL UNITS use the NAVAL COMBAT SYSTEM to attack convoys except there are NO CRITICAL HITS. (q 1 and 2)
SUBMARINES have a 50% chance to CONVERT a surface factor to a damage point on a merchant marine. (q 2)
These attacks destroy merchant marine factors and occasionally an ESCORT factor. (q 3)
Fleets that end their movement with zero operation points inflict 50% the damage just like in pursuit combat. (q 4)

Questions :
1) Do subs need to spot the convoy before attacking like in the Naval Combat System?
2) An Axis sub has a surface combat value of 4 in 39 (out at sea - 3), does that mean that the sub has 3 chances at 50% to sink an MM? Does it take one damage point to sink an MM?
So for example, 2 Axis subs, 1 39, 1 40, together combined have a surface combat value of 7(at sea), do they have 7 chances at 50% to sink an MM?
3) When subs are attacking in round 1, can they sink an escort before round 2?
4) If the sub has used up all its OP points to move to a location and sinks 7 MMs on a turn, then is that converted to 3, 50% damage?

[AlvaroSousa]

#1 no
#2 frankly I forgot at this point and I am too lazy to look it up because I am relaxing. It is based on surface values X exp X effectiveness then a modifier
#3 It happens when they take off MMs
#4 yes

[ago1000]

FYI, not interested in the formula at all. That's the games job. [;)]
Just trying to understand if the escorts are in danger twice in the process that you described above and what is really meant by 50% in terms of estimated odds of sinking an MM in a turn. (ie. like land combat) That's all.
Thank you for your response.

[AlvaroSousa]

You kill more subs than subs kill escorts.

[Rexor]

While we're on the subject, when subs sink MM, does any production get destroyed? I'm wondering because, if not, then German subs won't affect production getting to the UK until they've sunk enough MM to force UK into making hard choices.

[malkarma]

Every MM sunk is also sunk with the resource that is transporting. So if for example, you sunk 5 MM, a mix of 5 oil/PP will be lost by the receinving country.

[AlvaroSousa]

That PP sunk is also affected by the economic modifier.

[Rexor]

Excellent thanks

Really enjoying the game!