Newbie Questions

[Xsillione]

5 damage is a bit much, but there is a big snowball style part of the game, that is very hard to catch when you starting to be on the losing side. As you lose, your morale drops, and the enemies go up, as you lose, your economy shrinks and the enemies go up, as you fall behind the tech, you start to be on the losing side, and suddenly, a normal landing that would do in an equal state only 1-2 damage, 3 if bad luck on your side, does 5, and you don't do any in return instead of equal return damage.

[Bo Rearguard]

Without knowing the exact circumstances of your personal global struggle I can only go with conjecture. But it might be possible that part of the reason you are facing a speedier invasion of Western Europe might have to do with your earlier decision to not defend North Africa. US and Allied forces that might have been tied up in an Operation Torch type invasion of Algeria, Tunisia and western Libya are now available to do other things earlier and differently than played out historically. I believe the AI is programmed to be a bit dynamic in that regard.

ORIGINAL: Janaka

This game will be the death of me. [:)]

Yeah, but if you survive experience is an awesome teacher. [:D]

[Janaka]

Well my first full game has ended in terrible defeat. I’ve enjoyed the game immensely and will try again soon as the other side, and hopefully will have learned from my mistakes.

I have some comments to make below. Some are possible bugs I experienced and other comments are about a few things that I didn’t like about the game.

Possible Bugs

1. I accidently moved a garrison unit over a hex containing a gun emplacement on the French coast. The garrison disappeared, never to be seen again.

2. The numbers that appear above units as they take damage don’t always match the actual damage received (which I assume is WAD to do with FOG?), but on one occasion the number above my unit was -235, which definitely isn’t right.

3. Suffered one crash. I meant to select a Japanese fighter unit to reinforce it, but accidently clicked twice on it which caused a CTD.

4. Aircraft carrier CAP. I set my carriers to use CAP but never saw it. Incoming air attacks always went undefended.


Things I didn’t like.

1. Weather system. The human player and AI player’s turns take place on different days and generate different weather. But on several occasions the weather alternated between fair and rain in which every AI turn was fair and I received all the rain. This meant my aircraft were grounded for two or three consecutive turns but the AI bombers were free to operate unhindered in between my turns. This became super annoying towards the end when my air support could take no part in defending the Fatherland or searching for/striking at US navy in the Pacific.

Lost several of my carriers because of alternating weather. Twice I gathered my Japanese navy ready for a big turn and the rains came. Next, the AI turn comes and its battleships plough through my screens straight into my carriers for surface combat, and the AI planes bomb my fleet (because the weather for the AI’s turn is now fair). Happened on both occasions and left the Japanese navy ineffectual for the remainder of the war.

2. Amphibious Landings. In other war games, amphibious landings suffer penalties when they hit the shores to simulate disorganisation, being vulnerable to defensive fire and being unable to immediately bring full strength to bear. In this game however the opposite seems true. The approaching craft gets an attack, then its passenger unit disembarks without casualties and it too gets an attack. And these attacks are uber-powerful sometimes delivering 5 damage each and destroying the defending corps in the process; even though the defending corps is full strength, fully upgraded and entrenched. It makes a farce of defending your shores. At least inland you’d only suffer one attack.

3. Gun Emplacements. These are the guns received by event in northern France. Basically there’s no point to them. They do not fire at approaching vessels. They need to have an auto-fire function during the AI turn in response to approaching craft; not unlike how defensive fire works for arty. The AI vessels approach, disembark troops and those troops get an attack; the gun emplacements did nothing. You can fire them manually during your own turn, but it’s too late - there’s no target during your own turn.

4. Who put the save button next to the quit button? I’ll say no more.


Looking forward to being humiliated as the Allies next!![:)]


Edit: Reflecting on what I've written: My bemoaning the weather system is probably sour grapes on my part - it's just bad luck I'm sure. But when I struggle to compete with the AI (even on Green and -20%MPP), losing the backbone of my navy, including all my carriers, due to two instances of bad weather for me/good weather for the AI at the crucial moment, I just can't help feeling aggrieved.

[Xsillione]

Fighter defense: Fighters will not defend itself, and so if the CAP CV get attacked, it will also not defend itself, for ground aircraft, this is ok, for CVs not so great, but at least WAD.

Weather: it is always against you

Amphib: Try out on the other side, it is not as simple as seems to be, most case, you are hard pressed to land without massive air and naval preparation, yet it can be strange. The LV starts with 11 supply, so it will have 10 on its first turn (lose one per turn), but most case the defenders won't have 10 supply, so a landing is better supplied (with huge cost) than a defending unit, and will have great morale from it. Also the best part, the LV uses its own attack value (based on tech), not the units value, so an AA gun, or an HQ or a cavalry brigade will be just as good for the pre-emtive attack, as an SF, armor or army.

[Janaka]

ORIGINAL: Xsillione

Fighter defense: Fighters will not defend itself, and so if the CAP CV get attacked, it will also not defend itself, for ground aircraft, this is ok, for CVs not so great, but at least WAD.

I lost two carriers to incoming airborne attacks (one from land-based bombers and one from US carrier strikes); shouldn't CAP engage the incoming bombers?

[Elessar2]

I do have a general complaint: some information is not available from within the game itself per se. For example, nowhere can you see what your average tech progression will be per turn. Nor is there any weather forecast button. To know both of those things you have to go into the editor and check out both areas in turn-and there are a LOT of weather zones.

For my 20k map, I've been toying with the dilemma of alternating turns [Axis: June 4. Allies: June 8. Axis, June 12, etc.] or having simultaneous turns [Axis: June 4. Allies: June 4. Axis, June 12...]. The issue there is the asymmetry between the sides: the Axis, since they typically go first, can make note of the weather during their turn and prepare for when the Allies get to move, knowing the weather will be the same. But, just as obviously, the default situation isn't any more satisfying. Rain & storms probably should reduce the effectiveness of air power, but not ground them completely, esp. given that in the default scenarios we are talking about turns which can range from 2-6 weeks.

[Bo Rearguard]

ORIGINAL: Janaka



I lost two carriers to incoming airborne attacks (one from land-based bombers and one from US carrier strikes); shouldn't CAP engage the incoming bombers?

If your carrier's air mode is sent to CAP they will engage the incoming enemy bombers, however if those incoming bombers are escorted by fighters they will inflict some losses on your CAP and some bombers will get through to damage your carrier. If those enemy fighters are more technological advanced than your CAP fighters, your losses will be even more severe. CAP doesn't make you invulnerable.

One good tactic to use with carriers is a split move. Try to keep your carriers at arm's length 6-12 hexes from where your scouting assets like subs and destroyers are. Or use air recon to scout the area if available. If your scouts find a vulnerable naval target move your carriers in to the maximum air range they can strike at, make your two allowable air attacks and then move them back to a safer area. It lessens the vulnerability of the carriers to a counter attack.

Another good idea might be to set up a quick hot seat game against yourself with the fog of war off. Set up some carrier and air attacks and see what goes on when you control and can see both sides.

[Mithrilotter]

I have always felt that weather should be the same for both sides during the same turn. Many times I have experienced bad weather when I needed good weather while the AI would get good weather in its turn. This can be decisive during a big naval carrier battle. I have also seen good weather over my air units while there was bad weather over the AI units that I wanted to hit. Having the same weather for both sides during the same turn solves this play unbalancing inequity.

[Hubert Cater]

Hi Janaka,

Just to provide some answers to your latest posts here:

Bugs
1) This doesn't sound right at all, if you have a turn where you can ever repeat something like this please let me know and send it our way.
2) The numbers should match what the losses would be for the unit. There is a possibility of a +/- 1 to the unit losses, and perhaps this is what you are seeing from the prediction box in terms of differentiation? If not, please send me a turn where this might be repeatable. For something like -235 there is also the possibility of national morale loss when a unit is destroyed etc., perhaps this is what you saw being animated above the unit? If so this is normal and to be expected.
3) Same, please send a turn for this if it is ever repeatable.
4) For Carriers, they need to be in range of the targets they are defending and weather could also be a factor, perhaps stormy seas or rain/fog were in play here?

For any turns, please send to support@furysoftware.com

For FoW, the AI plays under the same rules as a human player, but it can be given bonuses to increase its spotting range. This is set in the OPTIONS screen. There is also the possibility that your Carriers were simply spotted as well, either during the course of the turn and during combat, or from a Spying and Intelligence spot at the beginning of the AI turn.

Hope this helps,
Hubert

[Hubert Cater]

ORIGINAL: Mithrilotter

I have always felt that weather should be the same for both sides during the same turn. Many times I have experienced bad weather when I needed good weather while the AI would get good weather in its turn. This can be decisive during a big naval carrier battle. I have also seen good weather over my air units while there was bad weather over the AI units that I wanted to hit. Having the same weather for both sides during the same turn solves this play unbalancing inequity.

Since one side goes before the other there is never really going to be a true weather for both sides that is always the same, correct?

e.g. as Elessar noted above, Axis goes first in the default game and so the Allies are guaranteed the same weather as the Axis, but the reverse is not necessarily true.

For example, when the Allies are attacking later in the game, the Axis response turn is not guaranteed to have the same weather as the Allied attack turn, because the weather changes after the Allied turn.

So isn't the problem essentially the same then as you'll reach points in the game where the weather is not always going to be the same for both sides?

[BillRunacre]

ORIGINAL: Janaka

2. Amphibious Landings. In other war games, amphibious landings suffer penalties when they hit the shores to simulate disorganisation

There is a % chance of it in this game too when landing on a coastal hex that is in enemy hands.

[Janaka]

Started up a new game, as the Allies this time.

First question: I can not sail any Allied vessels into the Baltic, not even a submarine. Will I be locked out of the Baltic for the whole game?

Germany just annexed Denmark which may have something to do with it? Although, as Axis vessels can sail through Allied-held straits of Gibraltar, I don't see why Allied vessels shouldn't be able to access the Baltic?

[Xsillione]

Yep, you will be blocked. Denmark is the key, neutral Denmark won't let most in or out, Germany can skip it with the Kiel Canal (and this control of the Denmark was the reason to build it.) On the bright side, the SU baltic Fleet will spawn there, and they will play as your baltic units, as long as they exists for one reason or another.

If you want to enter the Baltic, than liberate the Danish capital, there is a good reason to go to norway anyway, and from there is is little more than a jump just.

[Janaka]

Okay thanks.

Next question: Do naval units earn experience for bombardments?

And I mentioned this one before - who thought it was a good idea to put the quit button next to the save button. I've gone and done it again!!

[BillRunacre]

You can earn experience some from bombardments, but probably not much and if you are shelling a resource or if you stay near the coast then you may well receive damage in return, thus negating the experience gains from bombarding.

[amandkm]

ElvisJohnRambo has this down to a science. When he was taking me to school in a couple of games last month, he made excellent use of coastal bombardament to train his crews.

[Janaka]

So I reckon its time to wave the white flag and admit that the the game, even at green -20%MMP, is just too much for me.

I'm trying to apply what I've learned and trying to emulate what the AI did but everything is disastrous. I find the combat results to be inexplicable; for instance, fully upgraded asw sub-hunting destroyers in the AI's hands are deadly, but for me they can't hit a thing, instead the AI subs sink my destroyers. I find some other things an exercise in pure frustration - such as the AI unerringly locating and ambushing my ships time-after-time, no matter how I try to hide, and then running off again so I can't hit them back. Or how when Spain joined the Axis in June 1941 my entire RN fleet (which I had only just sent) becomes trapped in the Med and cannot exit (this bit was a cause of despair, the final straw that made me quit).

I'm simply not cut out for this game. The difficulty level places it way out of my league. I think I'm done.[:(]

[amandkm]

Maybe what you should do is play a human opponent. Given your newness, we could take it slow, and you could ask questions as we go.

As an alternative, you could save and then take the other side in an AI game (e.g. play a turn as Axis, then save and play as allies. You would be able to get a fee for both sides and you would have enough of an 'intel' advantage to negate the AI's advantages.

It would be a shame to just give up. The game can be tough to master, but it's a LOT of fun.

Let me know if you want a MP game.

[ElvisJJonesRambo]

ORIGINAL: Janaka

So I reckon its time to wave the white flag and admit that the the game, even at green -20%MMP, is just too much for me.

I'm trying to apply what I've learned and trying to emulate what the AI did but everything is disastrous. I find the combat results to be inexplicable; for instance, fully upgraded asw sub-hunting destroyers in the AI's hands are deadly, but for me they can't hit a thing, instead the AI subs sink my destroyers. I find some other things an exercise in pure frustration - such as the AI unerringly locating and ambushing my ships time-after-time, no matter how I try to hide, and then running off again so I can't hit them back. Or how when Spain joined the Axis in June 1941 my entire RN fleet (which I had only just sent) becomes trapped in the Med and cannot exit (this bit was a cause of despair, the final straw that made me quit).

I'm simply not cut out for this game. The difficulty level places it way out of my league. I think I'm done.[:(]

Jananka, what kind of gaming background are you coming from? There is a learning curve to so of the game mechanics, such as Supply, Operands, Unit Types, Long Term Planning, and Regional Battlefront methods.

Many of us here, have played WW-2 Grand Strategy games for years, so maybe you're new to this genre of history. Most of us are WW-2 history nuts, who have probably watched every WW2 movie ever made and have watched over 400+ hours of YouTube history on the subject, and have had family members in the war.

This game is combination of Poker, Chess, Golf patience, practice, timing, adjustments, Avalon Hill's 1970's 3rd Reich & beer/pretzel game Axis & Allies.

[Janaka]

ORIGINAL: ElvisJJonesRambo
Jananka, what kind of gaming background are you coming from?

On a strategic scale, over the years, I've regularly played games like TAOW III, HoI III, Decisive Campaigns, Ageod's Thirty Years War, Civil War II, BoA, AJE. These are all games I can play and beat. But Strategic Command is different. it throws up so many anomalous situations that perplex me. I cannot compete with or replicate the AI.

For instance some things I don't understand, or feel are implemented in unintuitive ways:
>When the Allies control Gibraltar, Axis ships can enter/exit the Med, but when the Axis controls Gibraltar, Allied ships cannot enter/exit the Med.
>Or how about a British Battleship off the coast of England, full strength and fully upgraded (211 I think it was) bumped into by an Axis sub - that sub takes no contact damage then hits my BB for 5 damage without loss (SS was 10 strength, no upgrades), and then a Spanish cruiser (CL 4-strength, no upgrades) follows up the sub and hits my BB for another 5 damage without loss to sink it. The odds should have been suicidal for the Spanish cruiser, it is out-classed, out-ranged, out-gunned, has less strength and no upgrades versus a fully upgraded BB; so how does it deliver 5 damage without taking any damage in return? I'm perplexed.
> Or how do AI carriers regularly launch successful airstrikes against my land and sea units without taking loss in return, yet my carrier planes get shot down in huge numbers (I'm set to naval/tactical) almost every time in similar strikes - including versus targets that have no anti-air capability and no interceptor cover?
> How do Afrika Korps tanks freely roam the deep desert in sweeping flanking manoeuvres without any heed to supply, when my units struggle to move far at all due to those same supply and terrain issues (I don't see any major difference between our HQ units or supply routes/sources)?
>How do approaching landing craft regularly hit entrenched coastal defenders for 4 or 5 damage, and without receiving any damage in return? In fact, why do landing craft have any attack value at all?
>Why do coastal defenders (including gun emplacements) not get to fire at approaching landing craft? I know this would require an auto-defend option (like defensive arty fire), but coastal defences would open up with everything they have - instead they don't get to fire at all but are instead fired upon - twice!; once by the landing craft and then by the unit that disembarks from the landing craft without any impediment.


On Green -20% MPP I would not expect the AI to seemingly achieve the seemingly impossible so regularly - or at all. See Spanish cruiser example above. I don't achieve the same results when trying to replicate what the AI does.

I quit my last attempt in late 1941 (playing Allies) when: I had lost Poland, France, Yugoslavia, Portugal and Egypt (as expected), but China and Russia were on the verge of capitulation too (and its only 1941 remember). Plus the RN was trapped in the Med and the US Pacific navy reduced to just two carriers - everything else sunk, and all without a single Japanese casualty. So, no ships left to use, planes that don't fly (due to never-ending rain on my turns, while AI could fly most turns), and land forces rapidly depleting - far quicker than I could hope to replace.

I imagine I'd need to hold until what - about mid-43 - to overstretch the Axis and start turning the tide? But it was still 1941 and at the rate I was losing territory, corps and ships there was pretty much nothing left to hold out with. I expected to be losing, but being annihilated and being on the receiving end of many inexplicable combat results (see whinges about Spanish cruiser and amphibious landings as examples above), it all became disheartening and not fun anymore.