Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. John 3rd)

Post descriptions of your brilliant victories and unfortunate defeats here.

Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition

User avatar
Kitakami
Posts: 1302
Joined: Thu May 02, 2002 11:08 pm
Location: The bridge of the DNTK Kitakami

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. John 3rd)

Post by Kitakami »

ORIGINAL: Bif1961
That happens to the Allied player in every early game. However, seriously I hope you get rest, fluids and meds.
It seems to be some sort of virus affecting stomach, brain, and upper respiratory tract.

While I work on the report for the last 2 turns, I would like to ask a question:

***** Where do I send the British 18th Inf Div?

Fire at will!!! :)
Tenno Heika Banzai!
User avatar
Kitakami
Posts: 1302
Joined: Thu May 02, 2002 11:08 pm
Location: The bridge of the DNTK Kitakami

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. John 3rd)

Post by Kitakami »

Ok...

The last two turns have not been as bad as they could have been. It is depressing to count the number of ships that are sunk by Japan every turn, but I think I have not made any terrible mistakes (although I am certain I am making a large number of non-terrible ones). This is what Tracker reports:

1. Air:

On Dec 11th, Japan lost 37 planes, the Allies lost 46. On the 12th, losses were 34 to 38. John has been far more careful with his bombers and float planes. My main problem is that I am loosing more far more fighters than he is, although my pilots are not dying as fast as his are. Last turn, for example, while I lost 38 air frames, 14 pilots were WIA, and only 5 pilots were KIA.

Fighter losses so far:

- Buffalo I: 33
- P-40B: 45
- Hurricane IIb Trop: 5
- B-339D: 3
- P-40E: 33
- CW-21B: 1
- 75A-7: 1
- P-26A: 1
- I-16-III: 1
- P-36A: 20
- F2A-3: 10
Total: 153 air frames lost

- A6M2: 54
- Ki-43-Id: 3
- Ki-43-Ib: 8
- Ki-27b: 1
Total: 66 air frames lost

Level Bomber losses so far:

- Hudson I: 13
- Blenheim I: 5
- Blenheim IV: 1
- Wirraway: 8
- B-18A: 1
- B-17D: 5
- B-17E: 9
Total: 42 air frames lost

- Ki-21-IIa: 12
- Ki-48-IIa: 14
- G3M2: 19
- G4M1: 17
- Ki-30: 1
- Ki-36: 7
- Ki-51: 5
Total: 85 air frames lost

Carrier Bomber Losses so far:

- Swordfish I: 1
- Vildebeest III: 2
Total: 3 air frames lost

- D3A1: 6
- B5N2: 15
- B5M1: 2
Total: 23 air frames lost

Total air frame losses so far: Japan 197, Allies 230. Overall balance is not terrible, but the fighter loss ratio does worry me... a lot.

2. Sea:

Allied naval losses so far:

1x CA
7x DD
3x PG
1x PC
1x PT
3x SS
1x AMC
1x CM
1x CMc
4x AM
2x AS
2x AVD
2x AVP
2x AG
17x TK
2x YO
3x HDML
1x AMc
20x xAP
29x xAK
38x xAKL

I have not lost a BB in Pearl... yet. I have used every trick I know to delay John and keep him off balance. Runway damage from the initial attack has been repaired, and airfield service damage is not s bad as it was. Manila is not in as good a shape, though.

An RN BC is damaged, and will need to leave the map for repairs.

Japanese reported naval losses so far:

3x DD (confirmed)
1x SS (unconfirmed)
1x xAK (unconfirmed)

My naval losses are bound to grow in the next few days, but I have been trying to conserve my forces and get a punch in whenever I can. Thus, a number of IJN cruisers are damaged, with at least two heading for port, requiring non-trivial repairs.

3. Land:

John is a very aggressive player that knows his Mod, and knows how to play Japan well. To his credit, he also dislikes turn 1 invasions that would not have happened.

In China I have been literally running for the (forested) hills, establishing strong points. Any of them can be taken by John if he puts his mind to it, but none of them will be cheap. Thus, the tempo of his attacks will be slowed... or so I hope.

Burma is going to be impossible to keep, but I need to stage a good fighting retreat. That means I need enough forces there, both land and air. I will attempt to hold on to Port Blair. With the IJA Paras being in a bind in Malaya, I might have time to reinforce the place with one Bde. It would then take an amphibious assault to take the base.

In Malaya I have lost Kuantan, but nothing else. I have been bracing myself for an amphibious assault in Mersing, but it has not happened. Where are those IJA divisions? Is he going for Burma before going for Singapore?

Palembang was lost on the 10th. Impossible to reinforce. If I am to make a stand in the DEI, it will have to be in Java. One thing I find interesting. This is what I get when I hover over Palembag: FIRES 22, Resources 84(17), Oil 905(96), Refinery 675(76), Light Industry 64(12). Could part of that reported damage be real? Could it have been produced by his bombarding the place?

In Borneo, Singkawang was lost last turn, and Miri 1-2 turns before that. Manado in Celebes was also lost last turn, and Ternate 1-2 turns before that. Namlea will be lost this turn.

Davao has not been attacked yet. In Luzon, John took Aparri, Vigan and Luzon last turn, and is gathering strength in Atimonan.

Manus was lost last turn, while Lae and Madang were lost one turn ago. Nauru, Ocean Island, Tarawa, and Tabiteuea are in Japanese hands now.

There is an IJN TF 9 hexes away from Wake Island.

4. Final thoughts:

Kido Butai is 5 hexes NE of Pearl Harbor. 132 Kates attacked last turn. The port attack scored 7 bomb hits in 5 different ships, and port damage was very minor. I have done far better in pearl Harbor than I could have expected (and far worse in Mania), but I fear my luck might be running out. I need to get fighter reinforcements to the place ASAP.

QUESTION: Can USAAF fighters take off from a USN CV?

QUESTION: What bases should I fight for? Pago Pago? Suva? Port Moresby? Darwin? Colombo?

Any and all input is more than welcome!
Tenno Heika Banzai!
User avatar
ny59giants
Posts: 9883
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:02 pm

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. John 3rd)

Post by ny59giants »

Air Power: You are reaching the point where you must pick and choose what bases deserve CAP. The Allied mindset is to conserve airframes. You will be overflowing with American pilots for most of the game, but not have enough airframes to go around. Thus, the mindset is to train up and train some more your pilots.

Malaya airgroups. Most of these will be needed to defend India. Unlike the Japanese air groups, many of yours have very short legs. You will need to evac from Singapore to northern tip of Sumatra - Port Blair - Rangoon - and beyond to India. If John uses his para aggressively, he may try to take Port Blair. If not, then you will have to ship them up to India which takes time they need to rest and then train. You don't get too many Hurricanes, but they will be your main defenders in India.
[center]Image[/center]
Bearcat2
Posts: 578
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2004 12:53 pm

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. John 3rd)

Post by Bearcat2 »

7.0.1.1.1
"If an aircraft squadron is a fighter, fighter bomber, dive bomber, or torpedo bomber and is not Carrier Trained and Carrier Capable, and is located on a Carrier, it may only be transferred to a Carrier in the same hex (loaded with cranes, as they could not land on a Carrier) or may only fly from the Carrier when ordered to transfer to a base. Also, carriers may never carry more than 5 air units at one time"
"After eight years as President I have only two regrets: that I have not shot Henry Clay or hanged John C. Calhoun."--1837
User avatar
Kitakami
Posts: 1302
Joined: Thu May 02, 2002 11:08 pm
Location: The bridge of the DNTK Kitakami

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. John 3rd)

Post by Kitakami »

ORIGINAL: Bearcat2
7.0.1.1.1
"If an aircraft squadron is a fighter, fighter bomber, dive bomber, or torpedo bomber and is not Carrier Trained and Carrier Capable, and is located on a Carrier, it may only be transferred to a Carrier in the same hex (loaded with cranes, as they could not land on a Carrier) or may only fly from the Carrier when ordered to transfer to a base. Also, carriers may never carry more than 5 air units at one time"
Thank you! I thought as much, but needed to be sure.
Tenno Heika Banzai!
User avatar
Bif1961
Posts: 2014
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:52 pm
Location: Phenix City, Alabama

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. John 3rd)

Post by Bif1961 »

You lost no BBs and only 3 subs? If true you are doing very well. As I am not up on the increased pools in this mod I don't know if your fighter loses are too high, but they do seem high. You might want to pick a choose to establish hit and run CAP traps and bombing missions, make him escort everything and defend bases in his rear with CAP that will help thin out his fighters.
User avatar
Kitakami
Posts: 1302
Joined: Thu May 02, 2002 11:08 pm
Location: The bridge of the DNTK Kitakami

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. John 3rd)

Post by Kitakami »

ORIGINAL: Bif1961
You lost no BBs and only 3 subs? If true you are doing very well. As I am not up on the increased pools in this mod I don't know if your fighter loses are too high, but they do seem high. You might want to pick a choose to establish hit and run CAP traps and bombing missions, make him escort everything and defend bases in his rear with CAP that will help thin out his fighters.
Things have gone down hill since then. I will make an update after a cup of coffee or two.
Tenno Heika Banzai!
User avatar
Kitakami
Posts: 1302
Joined: Thu May 02, 2002 11:08 pm
Location: The bridge of the DNTK Kitakami

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. John 3rd)

Post by Kitakami »

Ok... game date is now Dec 17th, 1941, aad the last few turns have taken a turn for the worst.

Philippines:

I have had to concede air superiority over Manila. I could not hold the tide against the number of A6M2 fighters sweeping, and the naval bombers that came after them. Whatever fighters are left are on their way to Java. The few heavy bombers I could fly out are in Calcutta, training.

What ships I could save, I did. The rest are now artificial coral reefs. John is very good at locking the thundering herd down. Luzon has been invaded, and Mania is being approached from both the north and south. Clark Field and Batangas are still in Allied hands. Cebu, Butuan, and Jolo have fallen.

The cruiser force, although diminished and damaged, may have escaped. Current location is northern coast of New Guinea, sailing towards Australia.

China:

China has been rather quiet with two exceptions. First, a Chinese corps commander decided to attack in Ichang... by himself. It cost me 301 destroyed infantry squads, a whole month worth of reinforcements. He should be shot! The second exception is hex (85,86). I got there first, but a couple of IJA Bdes want to dislodge me from there. I have reinforcements one hex away. I have withdrawn most troops from Yunan, and sent them where they are most needed. The first two divisions from the Chinese 5th Corps will cross into Burma in a few days. The rest of the Corps will follow as able.

It seems John has decided to train his 4E bombers here. I will try to counter the move with one third of the Flying Tigers. We will see how that goes.

Malaya:
John's Mersing Gambit worked. Mersing and Kluong have fallen, the Japanese Paras blocked the road in Malacca, and Singapore will fall in less than a week. It only occurred to me later that I should have garrisoned Malacca, not only Mersing. Live and learn, I guess. I have begin evacuation of fighter assets and, although I will certainly lose some damaged planes, at least the squadrons will live to fight in Burma & India another day.

Burma:

The IJA has not moved in force yet, but a scouting unit is in (55,58) and one unit is marching towards Tavoy. I am trying to get some semblance of a defense here, as Burma will be attacked early (see Malaya, above). The only good thing about the IJA Paras being used and abused in Malaya is that Port Blair will not fall to an airdrop. It will need to be invaded.

The DEI:

With Palembang in Japanese hands, and with both fighters and bombers stationed there, things have gotten more complicated. Last turn I ordered a night attack on the oilfields with all of the Dutch medium bombers... and not one attacked :/ I will try again, but I need those groups to pass their checks. I think the strategic benefit of the the attack outweighs the tactical benefit of doing anything else.

Java is quiet for the time being, and being reinforced with air units from the Philippines. That Tarakan has not been taken yet has given me a very convenient, and somewhat safe, air bridge.

Manado, Ternate, Namlea, and Boela have fallen. Singkawang and Sambas are in Japanese hands. So is Miri.

New Guinea and surrounding area:

Manus, Wewak, Lae, Buin & Tulagi have fallen. The evacuation of Rabaul by air is on its way. That the IJN carriers made an appearance here and sank a few xAK will give me a few extra days, but Rabaul will fall, and soon.

South Pacific:

Nauru, Ocean Island, Tarawa, Tabiteuea, and Baker Islands are in Japanese hands. Canton Island is next. The question is... will John go for Pago Pago, I think he will.

Central Pacific:

Wake and Midway have fallen. Nothing I could do about it. The question is... what will John do with those SNLF units now?

America:

Adak has fallen.

The first major disaster of the war has happened. I sortied Sister Sara to a point about 11 or so hexes from San Diego, with DD & APD escorts, to ferry dive bombers to Pearl. The Yellow Wolf Pack found her and, in 3 days, hit her with 5 torpedoes. Not only do I have one less carrier, but also I lost two full squadrons of DBs that I desperately needed elsewhere.

Summary:

I am no match for John. Not only the initial correlation of forces strongly favors Japan, but he also is an excellent player and knows this Mod better than almost any one else. As things stand, I do not know what to do, or how to do it. I can see a bit of what the Allied leaders must have felt in the early stages of the campaign. I am also seriously considering discontinuing this AAR. It must get boring reading my whining every time I post.
Tenno Heika Banzai!
User avatar
Cheesesteak
Posts: 329
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:05 pm
Location: Richmond, VA

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. John 3rd)

Post by Cheesesteak »

Keeping up on an AAR is tough (mine needs updating now that the game has resumed!)

That said, yours is a good read and I hope you keep it up. Something to hopefully cheer you up: anti-air is still just as murderous as in any other DBB game. Weather the initial storm and John's deep forays will eventually bleed his veteran pilot pool. The extra IJA Scen 2 divisions do not make an appearance.

On the morale front - celebrate every small victory; enough of them lead to a big win. Don't forget: everybody likes an underdog!
"Knowledge is Good" - Emil Faber
User avatar
ny59giants
Posts: 9883
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:02 pm

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. John 3rd)

Post by ny59giants »

Except for the sinking of CV Saratoga, you have not experienced anything outside of the standard opening moved by John (and other aggressive Japanese players). If he wants to go further in the Central and South Pacific, there is not much you can do. You start with significant naval forces in SoPac, but you want to use them where KB is NOT. He will probably look for an opportunity to engage those forces, if you allow him a chance to find them.

Pearl - get more supply there even if it cost you some xAKs. Steadily rest the fighters to 100, then train those pilots up. Fill up the air groups. so he will be in for surprise if he comes back later.

Line Islands - I like Christmas Island as hub, but he can take that easily until you can reinforce with a rgt or more.

USA to Australia - You are working your SLOC on the outside of the circle while Japan can go across the circle quickly. It takes all those 12 knot xAK you have and will be getting a month to get across the big Pacific. So, an xAK will only make 6 trip per year running this route. Patience my young Jedi. [:D]

Australia - Focus on getting some fighter groups here. Only what you get out of SRA and Philippines can be here until you can ship them from USA.
[center]Image[/center]
User avatar
CaptBeefheart
Posts: 2521
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2003 2:42 am
Location: Seoul, Korea

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. John 3rd)

Post by CaptBeefheart »

Cheer up, it's a long war. Listen to Cheesesteak: Everyone loves the underdog. Keeping the AAR going will allow you to get plenty of advice, and some of that advice will even be helpful.

At some point in a few months when John is besotted with victory disease you'll have the opportunity to take out a KB subset that he sends out on a wild goose chase. It happens at least once in every AAR. You can take that to the bank.

Cheers,
CB
Beer, because barley makes lousy bread.
Bearcat2
Posts: 578
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2004 12:53 pm

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. John 3rd)

Post by Bearcat2 »

I thought you were a masochist in taking on this scenario on the allied side. I appreciate your AAR; it is illuminating. I think you are doing a great job; much better than I would be, it is tough being the Allies.





"After eight years as President I have only two regrets: that I have not shot Henry Clay or hanged John C. Calhoun."--1837
User avatar
traskott
Posts: 1571
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:30 am
Location: Valladolid, Spain

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. John 3rd)

Post by traskott »

Keep going! This is the Allied way. You struggle to breathe and suddenly you find yourself kicking your enemy back to Tokio.

In this mod is more difficult, of course, but, with careful planning and denying favourite John weapon ( KB and fast lightning counteramphibious invasion ) you will surely win.
User avatar
Kitakami
Posts: 1302
Joined: Thu May 02, 2002 11:08 pm
Location: The bridge of the DNTK Kitakami

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. John 3rd)

Post by Kitakami »

Well, if you do not mind reading the ramblings and whining of this addled brain, I will try to make it entertaining at least.

SitRep for Dec 19, 1941:

There has been as lull as IJN TFs sailed back to port to replenish. I have used it to send my damaged surface combatants and the Clemsons to safe ports for refit. Singapore is being bombed daily from the air, but I have been able to get a few more airplanes repaired and evacuated. Two IJA Tk Rgts have taken Alor Star and are driving south. They will not encounter much resistance, but they will encounter a speed bump in almost every hex. I am buying time.

Not much escaped from the thundering herd. A lot escaped from Singapore and Java. Most of the ships in Palembang were blockaded and destroyed, sadly. Ships are beginning to trickle into strategic locations where they will form the logistics backbone: the East Coast, Capetown, Aden & Abadan. Fuel and supplies will flow from from the East Coast into Capetown and from there to the map. Same from Abadan to India. Units will flow from the West Coast to Hawaii, Aden to India, and Capetown to where needed. John is a very good raider, so I need to think long and hard about keeping my merchant lanes safe. They will have to be longer by necessity, but if I can provoke John into reaching farther than he should, perhaps I can spring a trap once in a while. Naval search will be key, as several of you have advised.

In the DEI, I am bombing Palembang every night. Not much damage done... 2 oil hit the first night, 3 the second. But it trains my air crews, it is relatively safe, and it costs John supplies.

The IJA is one hex south of Manila. They will enter the city soon. Hopefully I will resist for a bit. Clark Field has not been attacked from the ground.

When John sent the G5s to bomb Ichang, I sent AVG/3rd Sqdn to Changsha, to hopefully CAP Ichang from there. It didn't. Instead, it flew against a large number of bombers that John sent against Changsha itself. The boys of that squadron were credited with 34 kills... in one day.

The IJN CVE TF is 3 hexes NE of Darwin, pursuing some fleeing non-combatants (and sinking one). Those escort carriers have a low number of sorties, so they will probably turn back before reaching Horn Island.

CA Houston, CL Boise, and escorts have arrived at the east coast of Australia. Refueled, they will now sail down to Sidney. It took a bit of dancing and dashing, but they seem to have escaped... for now.

Rabaul has not been attacked yet. I think John is sending his fleet carriers to escort the Canton Island and Rabaul invasions, which is buying me a couple of days.

On the topic, what I want to achieve is delay John one day here, a couple of days there, and so on. I can't face him directly yet, and it will be 3+ months before my ASW air groups are trained up, so I need to buy time. Problem is, between Mersing and Palembang, John added about 90 days to his total, while I have only deducted about 3 from that.

Tenno Heika Banzai!
User avatar
Bif1961
Posts: 2014
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:52 pm
Location: Phenix City, Alabama

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. John 3rd)

Post by Bif1961 »

On your supply routes look to see when your convoys have detection levels out in the middle of no where, that means his float plane equipped subs are stalking them and setting them up for some bigger units or a wolf pack. If they are detected vary speed change to flank and change direction for a few turns then change speed and direction back towards your intended port.
Post Reply

Return to “After Action Reports”