FITE2- Lobster Axis, Cpt Flam Soviet

[cpt flam]

Minsk was defended by about 2 Rifle divisions and support
another one has been blocked when I tried to give them some space.

Cfant, I'm concerned as you but it's a bit late now to change this.
First wave of reinforcement is diluting but I begin to receive units reform (killed before).

[Cfant]

Minsk is ok. The longer it holds, the longer the germans can't repair the rail.

[cpt flam]

Turn 9
in the north sector Pskov- Nevel

they bombard Pskov, but no attack yet
Red units are Forts and NKVD (divisions and border regiments)

I choose to reorganize Artillery, this remove AT brigade (there was few remaining) to form regiment at Army level.
Artillery at corp level will be removed to form other units.

I have option to disband Mechanized corps too, this will be for later as I need them for the moment.

[cpt flam]

central part of the front
we have been pushed from Minsk

sector Orsha- Mogilev
as you can see some militia units are around front line

air war continue to take is toll

as I have less units to move by rail, we dispatch factories from Leningrad

[cpt flam]

south front
sector Gorodok- Skvirka

an attack is make against an infantry battalion from 4th Gebirg Division, they will retreat

following that turn stopped by failed proficiency check
in Odessa sector, we repulsed a Brandenburg unit trying to cut our supply

[cpt flam]

Here come turn 10

a Division has been isolated near Polotsk

no more attack on Pskov
they begin to push toward Tallinn

air losses are fine

[cpt flam]

west front (or what remain of it)

many Motorized and Panzer are in the sector
I send an engineer to resupply some isolated units

the blue arrow show retreat path of a Brandeburg unit, that we pushed

last Factory from Leningrad is on rail

[cpt flam]

extreme south
Odessa is supplied by rail (for the moment)

the red cross is where Brandeburg battalion is buried
part of Black fleet is there to replenish and support

I had possibility to disband some forts from Stalin line which had no more use

retrograde movement is in effect on some places

[cpt flam]

Turn 11 is there
they didn't attack Pskov and won't get bonus on turn 13.

a new threat come as a division has been partly repulsed
hopefully 10th Mechanized corp was on way to reinforce this place

I try to keep mini-map about sector and air losses visible

[cpt flam]

in the center
Skeleton of the 2 divisions are always in Minsk
can't remember if they are form (OOB) in old style.
If this is true, they will need 18 turns to reform after they disappear.

13th Army is keeping Mogilev.

As you can see, some German units begin to suffer.
Infantry regiment going from 15-24 to 9-13 (60%).

[cpt flam]

South front

news from isolated units in their rear become scarce.

some units are leaved to keep the front (sometimes with no choice).
others keep moving to form a new defensive line.

factories from Dnepropetrovsk are moved to the east.
as I received less reinforcement, i could railed some NKVD and Fortress units reformed.

[cpt flam]

end of my turn 12
in the north
part of 21 Mechanized corp is isolated
10th come to rescue and repulsed a German battalion

air losses are low
some fighters in air superiority
few bombers on mission

[cpt flam]

central part
the threat against Mogilev grow

supply become scarce in Minsk, as visible with fortress unit

[cpt flam]

a bit south of Kiev

some battalion will stay at the front
this authorized a shuffling for the rest

some units are reorganizing

as before, some air units reorganize in front line

all rail capacity has been used to move units

[Lobster]

Hi. I know you have masses of troops sitting behind the front lines with nothing to do. In my game as the Soviets I too have the same thing. There is no way Moscow will ever be threatened. This scenario is seriously flawed. What do I mean by that?

The Soviets are receiving Rifle Divisions four to five turns earlier than they arrived historically. Some even a month early. For instance the 293 Rifle Division didn't even start forming until 10 July. You receive it 9 July. Before it even started forming. It wasn't even combat ready until 29 August. Not only do you get it over a month early, you get it at full strength. Before it even started forming. There are many, many examples of this throughout this scenario's OOB.

The Soviet Rifle Divisions get squads with two Dual Purpose LMG in June 1941. They didn't even appear on the battlefield until December 1942. In July 1941 Soviet Rifle Platoons had two squads with one LMG and two squads with no LMG. This didn't change until December 1941 when they had Rifle Platoons of three squads with one LMG and one squad with no LMG. On top of this Rifle Divisions are reconstituted in a very short time. So the Soviet player gets Rifle Divisions far too early. Far too strong. And the destroyed ones come back far too early. So the Soviet player has masses of units. So many that they sit behind the front lines with nothing to do just as I have in my scenario where I play as the Soviet. If you want to know when units really began forming, when they were assigned and where they were assigned look at Sharp's Soviet Order of Battle World War II. The TOE are in them also.

1941 is critical for the Axis. To intentionally make it this bad for them is a knife in the heart for the Axis side. To go on with this scenario is a waste of your time and a waste of my time. I found out what I needed to know. Until/unless it is fixed there is no point in playing it. So you are declared the winner by default. YAY!!!! [:D]

BTW, just got a look at your AAR. Good job on that. [;)]

[docgaun]

Lobster

The 293th RD started forming on the 10 july, so you get at 1 supply and 33% readiness, just because of that. If you change the date, it will be on the e 13 they will get it. Then the Soviet can arguable say the same thing. You can’t use the date when I came historically into combat, that for the player to decide. With the bad supply the soviets have in 1941 it will take some 6-8 turns to get ready, they you have to rail it top the front. So, its actual combat date will be close to historical. However, you can send it forward before, but then it will just get killed.
The 2 LMG, is being changed, in the new version. But the reason for it as this is not only a 1941 game. If you calculate it, it’s less combat factor, than 1 LMG as the squads start producing on turn 58. I know its confusing for you but do the math behind it. But again, its changed in the new version, along with a lot of other stuff.
You always use historical events when you attack my scenario. Remember that history is up to you to recreate.
It’s always difficult to balance a scenario of this size, so we balance it for Kristian and me. And we are still nerfing the Soviets, like I explained in other posts.
I am sorry you can’t figure out how to play the Axis side like Kristian, its somewhat down to skill. We have a balanced game. I know attacking skill is the one disrupting a scenario like this, it goes the same way when trying to reach Berlin. I don’t have the same skill attacking as Kristian.
Perhaps you should have a game as the soviets against Kristian and me as the Axis? Testing the new modifications?
If not, then please don’t play it. Please make your own scenario.

[docgaun]

I forgot to mention: The Rifle divisions reconstruct slower than they did historically (The 41 To&E) they are fixed at 18 turns after destruction arriving only as infantry battalions/regiments with no heavy weapons, simulating the over 1700 battalions raised historically in 1941 (Yes over 1700, so the soviets have much lees units in game that they did historically). This is done to save units and to speed up German advance by not having to deal with a battalion in each hex.
The other Rifle divisions reconstruct trough game mechanics. We have no control over this. But again, you seem completely off. It takes around 6-10 turns to reconstruct, then you have to get them in supply and readiness, and then rail forward to the front. Even if you streamline this process you are far behind the historical reconstruction of battalions and regiments.
There were at least 5 different to&E for a rifle division during the war. Remember we need the entire war playable, not just Barbarossa. Most of the To&E made out of historical necessity that might not be accurate I a game. (3 different just in 1941 alone) , and my guess it’s those you refer to?
There are 4 units pr rifle division, and there were over 500 rifle divisions. So if you implement historical stuff, you would just for the rifle divisions use all available events and units (the game can only deal with 10.000 of each.)
You are correct that the 2 LMG were in 1942, but the squad with no lmg, were only in 1941 and early 42, not in 1943. So, it reflects the historical necessity for change in to&e because of heavy losses. Losses that might not be true in the scenario. Like I told you before 46 x2lmg, has the same game strength as 54 one lmg when calculated in the game, so it has apparently no impact according to game mathematics.
With the above it seemed a great way to reduce the number of events and units used to use the 2 lmg squads in 1941, as it has little or no real impact. It was also to simulate the breakdown in reinforcement system in 1941. As I wrote before I am changing it now, to 1 lmg, and squads with 0 lmg (not in RD). Not because of combat factors, and definitely not because of Lobsters post, but because the early squads hold more men, and the 2lmg production starts late, leaving regiments not fully up in squads. The effect of the changes is that the Soviets will lose more men.

[cpt flam]

always good to have some news of what will come later ! [;)]

[Lobster]

ORIGINAL: docgaun

Lobster

The 293th RD started forming on the 10 july, so you get at 1 supply and 33% readiness, just because of that. If you change the date, it will be on the e 13 they will get it. Then the Soviet can arguable say the same thing. You can’t use the date when I came historically into combat, that for the player to decide. With the bad supply the soviets have in 1941 it will take some 6-8 turns to get ready, they you have to rail it top the front. So, its actual combat date will be close to historical. However, you can send it forward before, but then it will just get killed.
The 2 LMG, is being changed, in the new version. But the reason for it as this is not only a 1941 game. If you calculate it, it’s less combat factor, than 1 LMG as the squads start producing on turn 58. I know its confusing for you but do the math behind it. But again, its changed in the new version, along with a lot of other stuff.
You always use historical events when you attack my scenario. Remember that history is up to you to recreate.
It’s always difficult to balance a scenario of this size, so we balance it for Kristian and me. And we are still nerfing the Soviets, like I explained in other posts.
I am sorry you can’t figure out how to play the Axis side like Kristian, its somewhat down to skill. We have a balanced game. I know attacking skill is the one disrupting a scenario like this, it goes the same way when trying to reach Berlin. I don’t have the same skill attacking as Kristian.
Perhaps you should have a game as the soviets against Kristian and me as the Axis? Testing the new modifications?
If not, then please don’t play it. Please make your own scenario.

I've seen the AARs and it bears out what I say. Trench warfare long before Moscow is ever threatened. Moscow will never be threatened and the Soviets will never face collapse. And even the mighty Kristian had faced this truth.

ORIGINAL: docgaun
If not, then please don’t play it. Please make your own scenario.

I was going to say something equally as lame as the above but decided to not fall to that level. No, I won't waste my time playing the WW1 West Front in Russia. And no, I won't try and make a East Front scenario covering the whole war because TOAW can't do it properly as you've shown. Just not enough resources provided. Maybe if you did something to add variability to the scenario? So it wasn't ending up the same old trench warfare in 1941? Have a nice day. [8D]