Thread for DB3000 database problems, updates or issues

[Triode]

ORIGINAL: emsoy



Do you have more info on this upgrade? New missiles? New radar?

about OSA-AKM1 (9A33BM4) :
"increasing the reliability and performance of electronic equipment, the replacement of TOV (TV Optical Vizir) by electronic-optical system with a thermal channel , improving habitability conditions of the crew, etc. To do this, BM is equipped with air conditioning, a thermal imager, a system of passive radar system L-150(RWR) , a complex optical-electronic suppression "Purga"(smokescreen/chaff) On request, the BM can be equipped with control and recording equipment KZA-058, OU-1 distraction device for protection against ARMs and improved launcher for use a target complex "Saman-M"

missile is 9M33M3, radar like on OSA-AKM(9M33BM3) , new digital managment system based on Tor-M2U

modernized OSA-MA( upgrade based on OSA-AKM1 ) inteded for MPK project 1124 / 1124M

OSA-AKM1 (with "Saman-M" target):

OSA-AKM :


notice difference in optical stations above radar

Oki doki, what would the correct designation be?

PK Vasili Bykov [pr.22160]

[Hongjian]

[NEED MORE INFO]

http://www.popsci.com/new-chinese-balli ... -munitions

since some improvements on chinese missiles are announced, is there a chance for a DF-16 (and other SRBM/MRBM) variants equipped with both guided and unguided cluster warheads for runway cratering and destroying groups of mobile soft-targets? It seems that this capability has been confirmed of some sort for the 1000km ranged DF-16B.

[SASR]

[ADDED DB v443]

New air-launched Harpoon variant for the USN, the Block II+

http://www.seapowermagazine.org/stories ... rpoon.html

Designation: AGM-84N Block II+
Platforms: F/A-18E/F Super Hornet
IOC: 2017

Loadouts with the AGM-84N will probably the same as with the previous harpoon variants

Additions over previous Harpoon variants are a datalink and GPS guidance kit.

From: http://www.seaforces.org/wpnsys/SURFACE ... arpoon.htm

"On 18 November 2015, the U.S. Navy tested the AGM-84N Harpoon Block II+ missile against a moving ship target. The Block II+ incorporates an improved GPS guidance kit and a net-enabled data-link that allows the missile to receive in-flight targeting updates. The Block II+ is planned to enter service in 2017."

Also, I found a link to .mil site citing the range of the AGM-84L as 100 nautical miles (its 75 miles in the DB), so this new Harpoon should be the same in terms of range

From: http://www.hill.af.mil/library/factshee ... sp?id=5712

"The air-launched version is designated AGM-84. It is powered by a Teledyne/CAE J402 turbojet and has a maximum range of around 100 nautical miles"

Thank You

[SuaveWatermelon]

[UPDATED DB v442]

Hello

I have recently been looking around for any resources that mention F-35 EFTs (or CFTs) but have been unable to find any from anything newer than 2013
(That link here)

When looking through weapons testing, I have also noticed the conspicuous absence of any EFT drop testing or any other kind of EFT testing for that matter.

On top of this, while searching through f-16.net, I have heard many say that no EFTs have been ordered by any of the F-35 countries.
Search results here.

I even searched the LM site and the only thing that popped up was this:

https://www.f35.com/search/site/search& ... Fuel+Tank/

The article that comes up is a January 2016 response to a DOT&E report and in listing the accomplishments of the F-35 Development program mentions two things

1.

" As of Dec. 31, the program completed 80 percent of SDD test points and is on track for completion in the fourth quarter of 2017."

2.

"Completed GAU-22 25mm ground gun fire testing and began airborne testing on the F-35A.

- To date, completed 90 weapon separations - GBU-12, GBU-31, GBU-32, AIM-120, GBU-39 Small Diameter Bomb, U.K. Paveway IV, and first F-35 AIM-9X. This includes 18 for 18 successful live fires of AMRAAM, JDAM, and GBU-12s.

- To date, completed 17 Weapon Delivery Accuracy events (GBU-12, GBU-31, GBU-32, and AIM-120)"[Notice: no fuel tank separation tests]

I know this isn't definitive but I don't think there is any evidence to suggest that any variant of the F-35 will be using EFTs

Perhaps this might be grounds to consider removing them from all variants of the F-35 currently in DB 3000?

Does anyone else here know whether or not the F-35 will be receiving any EFTs?

Also another note:

Noticed that in DB 3000, F-15K has AGM-130A in some of its loadouts, but I'm fairly certain that AGM-130 is only a USAF weapon.

While the F-15K AF Technology and Boeing pages says the F-15K can carry the AGM-130A, there doesn't appear to be any pictorial or other evidence to suggest that the ROKAF uses it. Wikipedia also says that AGM-130 is only a USAF weapon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-130#Operators

Boeing Documentation for the F-15 Strike Eagle and AGM-130 make no mention of the ROKAF purchasing AGM-130

http://www.boeing.com/resources/boeingd ... ounder.pdf

http://www.boeing.com/history/products/ ... ystem.page

Perhaps not definitive either, but I can say that I am confident that ROKAF does not have any AGM-130 if even Boeing's pages don't mention an actual sale.

[FTBSS]

Just wondered if you increased the range of the SM-6ERAM I see multiple sources with range exceeding 200 miles (250 being the most quoted) in the next db update

[Pancor]

[ADDED DB v442]

Hello Everyone

Emsoy i repost the link back

Here is the link

This one is in russian:
http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-677.html

While the rest of the specification are on english

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... fense.html

http://www.kbptula.ru/en/productions/ai ... pantsir-s1 <--- it should be the same

http://www.deagel.com/Ship-Air-Defense- ... 19002.aspx

http://in.rbth.com/economics/2014/09/05 ... stem_38081

http://www.janes.com/article/52766/russ ... -pantsyr-m

And it has been rumor that the modernization of Admiral Kuznetsov is armed with it
link
http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/2209133

At last Pantsir-S2
link
http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/2251029


I think that should be it but i will search for more info
and please don't take it seriously just set this request for low priority
thanks guys

[Yokes]

ORIGINAL: emsoy

That's the SOLL modification, used for SpecOps? Which should carry RWR and FLIR?

Ahh, that's it! Thanks! Sorry for the false alarm.

Yokes

[mx1]

[UPDATED DB v443]

Polish Navy Orkan class entries should be corrected:
1. The Orkan class before modernization (#1551) did not have STING-EO weapon director. First ship entered service in 1992 not in 1994.
2. Then there was sensor modernization in 2006 which replaced NUR radar with Giraffe, SRN radar with CRM-200 and added STING-EO weapon director so the #2415 should have the same sensors #1552 has and start of service year is 2006 (not 2000).
3. In 2008 one of the vessels (ORP Orkan) has been equipped with RBS-15 Mk2 missiles, so there should be additional entry for that version (#2415 + Mk2 missiles). Two other vessels were not equipped with missiles.
4. Finally last year all ships have been equipped with RBS-15 Mk3 missiles. So the #1552 should have start of service set to 2015.

All source are in Polish:

http://gbc.org.pl/dlibra/doccontent?id=265&dirids=1 (pages 36-38)
http://www.rp.pl/artykul/1172966-Okret- ... zurki.html
http://dziennikzbrojny.pl/artykuly/art, ... towy-rbs15

[Schr75]

This should be a quick fix, but I feel it is pretty important.

The SS-N-3 and SS-N-12 series missiles can be fired from 50m depth, enabling submerged launch, when this was a strict surface launch missile.

Attached is a save game showing the issue, but this should be a DB issue.

S

[blh42]

Tupolev-160M2 in the makings. Major improvements seem to be longer action range of additional 1000km.

http://www.janes.com/article/53102/russ ... production

[SASR]

[ADDED DB v443]

Two of Russia's refitted Kirov-class battle cruisers will get the 3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Anti-Ship Missile


Used in the 3S-14-11442M VLS

From: http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... ew&id=3587
As was reported in the press, the Sevmash Shipyard and the Special Machinebuilding Design Bureau (KBSM, a subsidiary of Almaz-Antei) made a deal for 10 3S-14-11442M vertical launch systems (VLS) to equip the Project 11442M Admiral Nakhimov missile cruiser being upgraded now. Thus, the ship’s 20 inclined below-deck launchers of P-700 Granit antiship missiles (SS-N-19 Shipwreck) will be replaced with 10 VLS modules of the UKSK versatile ship-based launch system. The VLS modules will total 80. The same solution is expected to be applied to the Pyotr Veliky cruiser.

The 3S-14 VLS can launch the missiles of the Kalibr family (SS-N-27 Sizzler). In addition, the equipment for testing the VLS using mockups of the 3M-54, 3M55 and 3M22 antiship missiles is to be ready be December 2016.


Both the Pyotr Velikiy and Admiral Nakhimov will get the 3M22. The Pyotr Veliky is scheduled to to finish refitting in late 2022. Since the Admiral Nahkimov will be equipped with the same VLS, it will probably be fitted the 3M22 around the same time the Pyotr Velikiy gets it.

From: http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-bu ... anti-15263
"Both Pyotr Velikiy and its sister ship Admiral Nakhimov—which is currently being refurbished—are being upgraded with the new hypersonic weapon. Admiral Nakhimov, which will reenter operational service in 2018, will be the first of the Russian goliaths to be equipped with the Zircon."

From: http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... ew&id=3587
The Pyotr Veliky cruiser will start its repairs in the third or fourth quarter of 2019. Its repairs and upgrade are planned to be complete in late 2022, with the ship to be equipped with Zircon hypersonic antiship missiles.

250 mile range, with speeds above or around Mach 5

From: http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-bu ... anti-15263
There is very little information available about the performance of the Zircon missile. However, the weapon has a range of at least 250 miles and will likely be capable of speeds greater than Mach 5.0.

IMO the missile will likely be high-diving (with terminal maneuvers) instead of sea-skimming simply because trying to sea-skim at Mach 5 in the dense water-level air is going to heat the surface material of the missile past its tolerance level pretty quickly. There is a reason USAF flight-tested the X-51 at 70,000 feet!

In addition, both ships will also get the Naval S-400 and Poliment-Redut missile systems

From: http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-bu ... anti-15263
Meanwhile, both ships will also receive an upgraded air defense capability with the addition of a naval variant of the long-range S-400 and the mid-range Poliment-Redut missile systems.

The Russian members here could probably give much better information and much more details about this weapon than I can.

Wouldn't this be the first non-RV hypersonic missile system we have in the DB?

Thank You

[Triode]

[UPDATED DB v443]

ORIGINAL: SASR

Two of Russia's refitted Kirov-class battle cruisers will get the 3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Anti-Ship Missile



250 mile range, with speeds above or around Mach 5

fb.asp?m=3955730

From: http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-bu ... anti-15263
Meanwhile, both ships will also receive an upgraded air defense capability with the addition of a naval variant of the long-range S-400 and the mid-range Poliment-Redut missile systems.

Not exactly, 48N6DMK (Navy version of 48N6DM, "basic" missile for S-400,some people claim this missile also have ARH)
also there is no sign of Poliment-Redut
maybe we can expect return of SA-N-9 to it rightful place (places "reserved" for SA-N-9 are open and there is some work )




P.S. In database 48N6DM (48N6E3 for export) have wrong range , should have 250km

[SASR]

Thank you for those corrections Triode. I knew you would probably have better info than me [:)]

[Dysta]

ORIGINAL: Hongjian

http://www.popsci.com/new-chinese-balli ... -munitions

since some improvements on chinese missiles are announced, is there a chance for a DF-16 (and other SRBM/MRBM) variants equipped with both guided and unguided cluster warheads for runway cratering and destroying groups of mobile soft-targets? It seems that this capability has been confirmed of some sort for the 1000km ranged DF-16B.

Sub-munition variant of DF-1/2x series, especially some latest types after the military reform, is very likely developed and demonstrated their effectiveness.

The main question is, how much cluster bombs inside the RV? Using generic setup or based on Russian equivalents are ambiguous, because nobody can certain the exact damage and how they spreads when launched.

Let's say DF-16B and DF-26 are not in DB3000, so we need time to do some research for them.

[Zaslon]

In database 48N6DM (48N6E3 for export) have wrong range , should have 250km

And always, export versions have less range than russian versions, so 48N6DM is not equal to 48N6E3. Same for Club vs Caliber.

[Triode]

ORIGINAL: Zaslon

In database 48N6DM (48N6E3 for export) have wrong range , should have 250km

And always, export versions have less range than russian versions, so 48N6DM is not equal to 48N6E3. Same for Club vs Caliber.

unlikely, ballistic max range for 48N6DM is ~300 km and missile not under MTCR

[F4U7Corsair]

Request on the ASTER family.

#133, #578 — ASTER 30
- Increase top speed to 4,5 M (3000 kts)
- Increase acceleration (top speed reached in around 3 seconds)

#134 — ASTER 15
- Increase top speed to 3,5 M (2300 kts)
- Increase acceleration (top speed reached in less than 3 seconds)

Having seen ASTER 15 simulated shot procedures, the thing accelerates much faster than in Command.
Also, there is no data about this in Command, but the missile terminal (thrust-less) maneuverability is 70+ G.

[Zaslon]

ORIGINAL: Triode

ORIGINAL: Zaslon

In database 48N6DM (48N6E3 for export) have wrong range , should have 250km

And always, export versions have less range than russian versions, so 48N6DM is not equal to 48N6E3. Same for Club vs Caliber.

unlikely, ballistic max range for 48N6DM is ~300 km and missile not under MTCR

But a ballistic projectile need propellant. They can sell missiles with propellants with less energetic density or missiles with less volume of propellant.
You know that Soviets and now Russian often sell downgraded weapons not only because MTCR.

[Triode]

ORIGINAL: Zaslon

You know that Soviets and now Russian often sell downgraded weapons not only because MTCR.

Well, it is mostly Soviet thing , only export downgraded things from Russia that came in mind is radars for S-300 in China
wich is 2-3 times less resist to jamming

others customers recive what they want, as example

All that Su-30xxx with radar N-001VE,N-001VEP , all countries that buy them know what they do

and all of them buying RVV-AE missile know what they do

from other hand Russian Air Force never buy RVV-AE , insteaad they wait for RVV-SD

even while have Su-27SM/Su-30M2 with N-001VP ,that capable of using RVV-AE

why RuAF dont whant RVV-AE for this fighters? answer is simple, from NIIP official site for N-001VEP radar :

"- operation range of RVV-AE radiocorrection channel, km - up to 40"
http://www.niip.ru/eng/index.php?option ... 6&Itemid=8

So, 40km datalink + 16km ARH against 5m2 RCS rargets and than missile go "dumb" ,for RVV-AE + N001VEP radar

from other hand RuAF wait for RVV-SD with combinrd active/semiactive seeker

so, for RVV-SD + N-001VEP radar it is
40km datalink + 40-60km semiactive regime(3m2 target RCS,pseudodatalink [:D]) + 20km ARH

in RuAF it is Mig-29SMT(N-010M "Zhuk-M") also benefits from RVV-SD SARH with his 50km datalink range, other russian planes not so:

Mig-31BM (Zaslon-M radar) have datalnk with range ~150km (Mig-31 100km only for R-33)

Su-30SM (N-011M Bars-R radar) >80km

Su-35S (N-035 Irbis) >100km

also there is Su-30MKx with N-011M "Bars" radar
and Su-35S with N-035E "Irbis-E" for export

does that means that russians sell downgraded models of missiles and radars,while keep good things for themself?

I think no, customers recive exactly what they pay for, if they dont like RVV-AE+N001VEP performance they can always pay more and buy RVV-SD

So,
Soviet = downgraded models
Russia = you recive what you buy,if you dont like it pay more and we fix this

[Dysta]

[TOO MUCH CONFLICTING INFO, NEED DETAILS]

http://military.china.com/news/568/2016 ... 73772.html (Simplified Chinese)
http://m.wanhuajing.com/d211303 (Simplified Chinese)
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Badger.html
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... ariant.htm
(...-six wing pylons for cruise missiles, possibly one centerline pylon, and a bomb bay fuel tank.)

Contradicted sources:
http://www.military-today.com/aircraft/h6k.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xian_H-6
(The bomb bay was eliminated in favor of extra fuel for a longer range.)

---

More and more Chinese sources suggest the H-6K does still have bomb bay, not entirely removed and converted into internal fuel tank. Rather, it was suggested to use the non-refueling variant of bomb bay fuel tank deviated from H-6U, but removable and not designed for buddy refueling.

It may be true that putting one more KD-20/YJ-62/YJ-100 inside the bomb bay is less likely happens, due to the excessive weight to make it have even shorter duration. However, it still have the conventional bomb-dropping ability with it as older variants. With the benefit of turbofans, it can provide longer cruise range with up to 9000-10000kg sorties (10000kg is based on the assumption of higher thrust of engines).

That said, it can load up to 20 (or 18 based on the older variants) 500KG bombs in theory, but the bomb bay is still at the same size, and that will limit to carry only 12 internally. It still can barely load 2 more ALCMs at pylons to capped the 10000kg capacity (some sources said that KD-20 has 2 tons, unlike 1.25 tons in CMANO database, but will becomes 12000kg for 6x KD-20 loadout, and that's definitely overloading).

Of course it's still more beneficial for using full missiles with a removable bomb bay fuel tank, or internal bombs-only packages instead of the mix.



H-6K, older sources claimed the bay doors are bolted for internal fuel, but newer photos suggests the obvious gaps make it still have the functionality, and doesn't have 'bolts' like H-6U does.



H-6U, notice these 4 large 'bolts' at the bomb bay, it was suggested a fixed design to specially for refueling only.