Combat Values

[Krys]

ORIGINAL: Peter Fisla

I'm thinking about adding percentage tool, which would help the human (when enabled) to determine if it's a good idea to fire at a target or not. Example, should the human player fire with his squad and a leader at AI infantry stack at 50% chance to hit or should the human stack fire at the AI AT gun with 35% chance to hit.

I think that would be a great idea, Peter. It would be most helpful when considering when to fire and would also quiet (I think) a lot of the complaints that are popping up on the forum.

[Charly G]

ORIGINAL: Peter Fisla

I'm thinking about adding percentage tool, which would help the human (when enabled) to determine if it's a good idea to fire at a target or not. Example, should the human player fire with his squad and a leader at AI infantry stack at 50% chance to hit or should the human stack fire at the AI AT gun with 35% chance to hit.

Very good idea, but please make it optional or this tool will not be in Very Hard.

Still thank you Peter, for your game.

[proflui]

ORIGINAL: Peter Fisla

I'm thinking about adding percentage tool, which would help the human (when enabled) to determine if it's a good idea to fire at a target or not. Example, should the human player fire with his squad and a leader at AI infantry stack at 50% chance to hit or should the human stack fire at the AI AT gun with 35% chance to hit.

This is a very good idea! It definitely helps for players who have very little ASL knowledge like me. If movement factor of units and movement cost of different terrain are shown in the game also it will be close to perfect to me. Thanks!

[Monkie]

Would be nice to have as an option for those that need it.

[CaptBeefheart]

I came to this forum since it seems every couple of years I try to fire up a version of Steel Panthers I get some funky psychedelic graphics or some other issue. Anyway, I'm looking forward to a modern-day equivalent that works on modern operating systems.

One thing about SP that I've taken for granted the last 20 years is selecting a unit shows you the exact hexes you can move to in that turn. Another thing is the percentage chance to hit a target. Now, with enough experience in SP you don't really need to see the hit chance since you'll have a good idea anyway. The point is, people new to this game won't have any idea except by playing it a bunch of times. Some players will like that, others won't. Why not make hit chance and move range optional at all difficulty levels?

The other question is gun penetration vs. armor. After playing decades of SP I think I have a good idea of the nuances of most WWII tank match-ups, but what about players new to tactical WWII combat?

Cheers,
CC

[mainsworthy]

ORIGINAL: telengard

I would be OK with the % (as long as it could be disabled), but that's more than what I would personally want. I'd would just like to know the basics to make some decisions, range, firepower, etc. The VASL mod, assuming it maps to the in game values, is so far providing that to some degree.

this ASL coversion with The VASL mod may help, with assessing firepower, also remember when you see the range of a weapon in-game fires at full fire-power,but you fire at half-fire-power at twice the range like ASL

Fire Power

8 - A
7 - B
6 - C
5 - D
4 - E
3 - F
2 - G
1 - H

Morale

8 - ***
7 - **
6 - *
5 -

[JiminyJickers]

ORIGINAL: Commander Cody

I came to this forum since it seems every couple of years I try to fire up a version of Steel Panthers I get some funky psychedelic graphics or some other issue. Anyway, I'm looking forward to a modern-day equivalent that works on modern operating systems.

One thing about SP that I've taken for granted the last 20 years is selecting a unit shows you the exact hexes you can move to in that turn. Another thing is the percentage chance to hit a target. Now, with enough experience in SP you don't really need to see the hit chance since you'll have a good idea anyway. The point is, people new to this game won't have any idea except by playing it a bunch of times. Some players will like that, others won't. Why not make hit chance and move range optional at all difficulty levels?

The other question is gun penetration vs. armor. After playing decades of SP I think I have a good idea of the nuances of most WWII tank match-ups, but what about players new to tactical WWII combat?

Cheers,
CC

Completely agree with you. I have been eyeing this game but I am holding off for now. I will definitely need the info as you describe to help me play, and to possibly push me over the edge to buy it.

Personally I would love a more modern warfare version, a bit tired of WWII at the moment. But if this is improved, I'm in.

[blazej]

I was one of the first people to ask on this forum about hit probabilities and such. But now I played my first scenario, and I admit that I find it surprisingly refreshing to focus on tactics instead of number crunching. I used to play ATS quite a bit, and I remember agonizing over tables to plan out my movements and fire to a single point. It was tedious and, let's be honest, unrealistic. In real battle units didn't know exactly how much damage they could make or how far they could reach. So I find the approach in TotH quite well reflecting the Fog of War of a battlefield.

This could be a bit different for AFV firefights because their crews probably knew quite well if they could (or not) take out an enemy tank from a particular distance and angle. I don't want to be sitting there firing at that Tiger if I have 0 chance of causing damage

Just my two cents.

Best,
Michał

[Majick]

I understand the reasons for the debate about showing stats, and movement capabilities, although I've not played it enough to feel strongly either way yet.

But I'm not sure the various speculations about copyright infringements are helpful. Many of us, it seems, have been waiting decades for a game like this, have snapped it up, and are hoping more expansions etc will follow.

It would be a shame if the developers hard work came to nothing and the game died on the vine because of insinuations that certain things we might like to see are not included in the game for this particular reason.

Just my 2 cents worth, don't want to offend anyone, but just thinking of the future of the game [:)]

[chrisleko]

ORIGINAL: Majick

I understand the reasons for the debate about showing stats, and movement capabilities, although I've not played it enough to feel strongly either way yet.

But I'm not sure the various speculations about copyright infringements are helpful. Many of us, it seems, have been waiting decades for a game like this, have snapped it up, and are hoping more expansions etc will follow.

It would be a shame if the developers hard work came to nothing and the game died on the vine because of insinuations that certain things we might like to see are not included in the game for this particular reason.

Just my 2 cents worth, don't want to offend anyone, but just thinking of the future of the game [:)]

Couldn't agree. I've been critical about the lack of info about unit capabilities (though I think the VASL mod really fixes most of my complaints, as I think the info on it matches up mostly with the game (if not exactly)), but it's because I enjoy playing and want to see the game get better for people (like me) who actually have no experience with ASL (so I don't know how the units work).

[Franciscus]

Couldn't agree. I've been critical about the lack of info about unit capabilities (though I think the VASL mod really fixes most of my complaints, as I think the info on it matches up mostly with the game (if not exactly)), but it's because I enjoy playing and want to see the game get better for people (like me) who actually have no experience with ASL (so I don't know how the units work).

Exactly.

This issue has been raised several times but no clear answer by the dev has appeared.
I don't care a bit about hypothetical copyrights and I have never played SL/ASL (I have never even seen them and don't intend to), I am just a wargamer and a potential buyer that finds extremely odd that a PC wargame does not readily provide such basic info as units' movement range and combat power/values. I can live with clunky interfaces, but as an example, Schwerpunkt has a difficult UI, but movement range is clearly shown on map and unit's counters have all the usual and expected combat values clearly depicted. And of course, in TotH these parameters exist, they simply are not clearly shown to the player.
So, my simple question to Peter (and the answer or lack of will decide this player's decision to buy TotH or not):
- will you add a movement range filter on map and depict clearly (numerical) combat power of units in TotH in a future patch (maybe as an option) or not ?

Regards

[Paullus]

I know Peter is looking at this and is working on something that I think would please you.

[Jim D Burns]

ORIGINAL: Majick
It would be a shame if the developers hard work came to nothing and the game died on the vine because of insinuations that certain things we might like to see are not included in the game for this particular reason.

I too have waited decades for a "game like this", but the lack of any reasonable explanation followed by a shut up and play you don't need any info attitude is what prompts me to keep my wallet closed on this title.

Lacking any real information from devs (hmm seems to be a trend with this title), I have to assume the issue is he didn't really create a new or unique game system, he simply ported an already existing game system created by SL and ASL designers into computer format. I have no idea whether or not intellectual property rights apply to a game system, but my guess is a case could be made for it if someone wants to make it.

From what I've read on these forums it is probably an 80%-90% port of SL/ASL which is fine with me. I would have bought it day one except for the obvious attempt to hide the actual data by simply omitting it from the game. It's the attempt to hide data that leaves me wondering what is going on here that would lead someone to go to these lengths to hide data.

Pride of authorship may be in play (he doesn't want to be accused of plagiarism) or actual legal copyright issues may be in play. Whatever is going on it feels hinky to me and thus I will not support the game. I may be proved to be completely off base at some point (in fact I hope I am because I want this game), but the total lack of any attempt to address these concerns leaves me thinking I'm probably right.

While I want a game like this to be made, I want it done in a legal and principled manner. I doubt enough people are as concerned as me in principled behavior, so I doubt there are enough of us to help or hurt the game by not buying it. Norbsoft games have far worse issues when it comes to principled behavior and that company seems to be doing fine even with people like me never touching their titles.

Jim

[surfcandy]

Between more view-able info on unit counters and info on maps in future patches along with the modding, scenarios,charts and campaigns this game seems to be heading towards a classic!There are so many theaters of operations available for future expansions.

[RFalvo69]

ORIGINAL: blackcloud6

This is what Mr. Medrow wrote in The General vol. 23, no 2 when he introduced the AFV counters of ASL. Why don 't have some of the hard core ASL player the same attitude towards this game? It is very early and nothing is in stone. It took 30 years to come up with this and give it another 2-3 years and it will be even better than it is already.
It also should be very easy to come up with a combat value and movement sheet, just copy ASL.

Yep... good post.

BTW, the data sheet that everyone wants might actually make the game more expensive. Have you seen how big Chapter H is from ASL? And that only covers vehicles and Ordnance Weapons.

John Tiller's Campaign Series already has both the data and a brief description of all units directly implemented in the game - and the price didn't die because of it. That's was true 20 years ago, too, when the game first came out.

[z1812]

Great game. Many wargamer's have been waiting quite a long time for someone to make an ASL type game and here it is.

This is an interesting thread with many good ideas. I do hope any extra playing aids that are built into the game will be optional.

It is also unfortunate that a few ASL purists have decided to view their glass as being half empty. The game could benefit by some changes and additions and the developer seems to be open to ideas.

In terms of copyright issues; everything is based upon something else. It seems logical that the developer and Matrix are sure of their position regarding copyright.

If people don't like the game that's fine. They don't have to buy it. We can all benefit from the input of ASL players. However for the zealot ASLers, there is a great ASL site at Gamesquad. Why don't you go there and enjoy your game and we will enjoy ours.

Again Peter thanks for a very good game and thanks to Matrix for publishing it. I have waited a long time for a game like this to be made.

[Gerry4321]

As a former ASL player I am enjoying the game a lot. I am fine with ASL players requesting features be added just like everyone else does. The game is a fine one and the sky is the limit in terms of the engine and new official content.

[sIg3b]

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69
Sorry, but "learning with trial" doesn't hold water.

+50.

A Wargame/Strategy game is a planning game.

I want all the numbers and stats, and as far possible I want them:
1. in the Reference Manual,
2. in an ingame-reference, and
3. on the counters.

If I wanted to find out things by trial-and-error, I would play adventures.

[rico21]

[:(]

[fuselex]

I also have asked for stats , have posted a few threads in the hope I can get numbers to work with .
have had some really informative replies to my questions .
But in the end I have the biggest tank that fires 3 times at the opposing sides smallest AFV. and can`t kill it
From the time I have spent on the forums the one thing that stands out is ask a question and someone will go out
of there way to help ,
I`m sort of changing my view a little - played a few scenarios - and do I really need to diagnose the statistics?
Helpful . yes , but I don`t think that was the idea behind the game .
pretty sure it was for fun.