about german kampfgrupes (battle-groups)

[alaric318]

best greetings, i dont really know what kind of work on code edit and progam work effort may take to make this request available, but it is historical, and one of the best "weapons" or tactic advantage of german army, how about to let make some kampfgruppe from some divisional equipment/ground elements, then convert it (with administrative points costs, of course, inherent to it) to a support unit, you, in example, can customize a unit with some armor (panzer) some infantry, and some light artillery, then make the unit a support unit with administrative points cost (AP), and commit them to a division, taking regular replacements, or commit it even to a corps' HQ, so, it may take out more flexebility level, allowed to be commited to each corps' command, i are talking about it as a "base" "shell" feature, with more development, may be cool to allow to make such customization on support units from the supreme headquarters, well, i speak about german tactic to do it near in any battle of the war, but you can make it to soviet faction/side too, and the difference on morale plus experience will make the performance/proficiency difference than will retake to the right balance giving some limited advantage to one german unit of this type over from his soviet counterpart, of course, i apologize in advance as i are guessing may be some weeks of commitment to program and code work, just want to bring the idea on board, for giving an example we can speak of some "panzer-pioneer" sub-formation/support unit, with the infantry equipment, some stug tanks and one or two artillery groups (Aka... batallions).

also, i will like too, and is just a suggestion, too, some "assault" division on each corps or for each army, example given, the reorganization of the german assault battalions to somehow division set-up before the main attack on stalingrad (maybe 50% of all assault/pioneer german units on the main theater),

well, closing note is that i find the game great as it is now, but these tactics may give some extra control to make special support setups, specially used for maybe just one purpose each, but being really good in his dutty,

thanks for all support to the development and testers on the forums and have my best regards,

Murat30.

[Davekhps]

Doesn't the system as designed already afford you a lot of that Kampfgruppe flexibility? You can break down combat units and assign support unites to even the broken-down regiments (although not as many as to divisions-- I believe it's 3 support units hard-attached to divisions, only 1 to regiments/battalions, and only German at that IIRC).

Perhaps the Germans could have a bit more of an advantage in attaching support units than they currently have, i.e. 4 hard-attached to divisions and 2 SU attached to regiments/battalions, but given the higher command ratings already seen in German leaders, even the floating support units along the command chain float more easily up and down the chain than the Soviets experience with their poorer leaders, reflecting again the greater flexibility in the German command structure.

In fact, given the 2-week turn scale, that floating SU mechanism pretty much captures what kampfgruppen were in practice-- they were short-term combat units that lasted for battles and not much longer.

[Montbrun]

Break a division down into it's constituent 3 units - Voila! - KGs.

You can also attach 1 support unit to each broken-down regiment. That's the WitE mechanism to create mission-specific forces. There was a great deal of discussion about this very topic, and, IMHO, the current system was the best choice.

Brad

[kirkgregerson]

I think we're missing the point on how well the Germans used this flexible notion of 'Kampfgruppen'. This suited the Germans well that they could form up units from many sources into a unit for specific task. Remember reading about the more infantry heavy armies stripping mobile formations from units in order to make a special mobile Kampfgruppen for some deep penetration tasks. Later in the war when most German units were so depleted, it worked well to form up several of these units into a more capable Kampfgruppen.

I think later in the war, the German formation should be able to build a ?div? from any 3 battalions. To reflect this flexibility.

[elmo3]

Kampfgruppen were discussed during testing and it was a design decision not to include them.

[jomni]

Pesonally, I think the scale is too big for KG.
But building up hybrid divisions sounds like a good idea.

[alaric318]

best greetings, i are really pleased with the given support units, and works better than well for be in line and truth with the game design, but what i was wanting to meant is about customizable support units, in example, mix one pioneer group/battalion with a stug batallion and some artillery, 3 each at 1/3 each and you have 3 support units that may be good for any task, and at his base order of battle can handle starting skirmish and reccon. with some extra support, also, you attach one each for each division in one german corps and you get the better of each default system's support units, for sure it will be much more work, and for sure too, again i are fine and pleased with the given system, just was wanting some suggestion with patches in mind, for future game's upgrade/s,
 
have my best regards, and excuse the poor english,
 
Murat30.

[Mus]

ORIGINAL: elmo3

Kampfgruppen were discussed during testing and it was a design decision not to include them.

Wouldn't this kind of think be considered abstracted and considered to be actually taking place at the battalion level?

[elmo3]

Yes, I think the designers felt they did not make sense at this scale.