How will WITE differ from TOAW & HPS?
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How will WITE differ from TOAW & HPS?
I'm thinking very much of getting WITE. However, I already own TOAW. It covers more wars, more theaters, etc than WITE. Also there are numerous HPS titles out there featuring the simplicity of counters and a relatively simple strategic map. In what ways will WITE differ from these games? Will it be better? [&:]
RE: How will WITE differ from TOAW & HPS?
I'll bet the WITE engine is a lot more sophisticated that TOAW. IMO, TOAW is "ok" but does no one thing great.
"Actions Speak Louder than Words"
RE: How will WITE differ from TOAW & HPS?
The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing.
WitE Alpha Tester
RE: How will WITE differ from TOAW & HPS?
In the AARs there is one obvious thing different: for WitE each separate weapons group inside a unit ( such as 81 mm morts in a division ) have their own level of experience/fatigue/supply. TOAW, and most games i've had, would often have the experience/fatigue/supply numbers for the whole division, with each equipment type using the same set of numbers.
This extra level of detail is an effort of going the extra mile.
This extra level of detail is an effort of going the extra mile.
RE: How will WITE differ from TOAW & HPS?
I personally dislike the abstract and not always sensible TOAW combat system depending on the stage of the turn, instead of using a formula on something like movement points of the unit (like most games), I also feel the TOAW combat system is suboptimal in many ways, such as with low air strike losses and low losses from artillery fire.
Even though still somewhat abstracted, the logistics in WitE, to me, also make more sense than those in TOAW, which is why a 1941-1945 WitE campaign will in most cases come closer to a reasonable historical outcome than, say FitE for TOAW.
The TOAW series has some strengths, but to me the "trying to cover every possible battle/pre-modern and modern era" approach left it with plenty of weaknesses in the system too, which is why I generally prefer games with a narrower scope (those focussing on a single front, campaign or battle). To each his own.
Even though still somewhat abstracted, the logistics in WitE, to me, also make more sense than those in TOAW, which is why a 1941-1945 WitE campaign will in most cases come closer to a reasonable historical outcome than, say FitE for TOAW.
The TOAW series has some strengths, but to me the "trying to cover every possible battle/pre-modern and modern era" approach left it with plenty of weaknesses in the system too, which is why I generally prefer games with a narrower scope (those focussing on a single front, campaign or battle). To each his own.
SSG tester
WitE Alpha tester
Panzer Corps Beta tester
Unity of Command scenario designer
WitE Alpha tester
Panzer Corps Beta tester
Unity of Command scenario designer
RE: How will WITE differ from TOAW & HPS?
ORIGINAL: Gary Childress
I'm thinking very much of getting WITE. However, I already own TOAW. It covers more wars, more theaters, etc than WITE. Also there are numerous HPS titles out there featuring the simplicity of counters and a relatively simple strategic map. In what ways will WITE differ from these games? Will it be better? [&:]
This may not matter too much to some, but I have to say WiTE just looks a heck of alot better. The color coding of Army formations is a great idea and the background map is beautiful.
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RE: How will WITE differ from TOAW & HPS?
ORIGINAL: TPM
ORIGINAL: Gary Childress
I'm thinking very much of getting WITE. However, I already own TOAW. It covers more wars, more theaters, etc than WITE. Also there are numerous HPS titles out there featuring the simplicity of counters and a relatively simple strategic map. In what ways will WITE differ from these games? Will it be better? [&:]
This may not matter too much to some, but I have to say WiTE just looks a heck of alot better. The color coding of Army formations is a great idea and the background map is beautiful.
That does make a difference to me. TOAW does have some pretty cheesy graphics as do many HPS titles. Also I'm not a big fan of TOAW interface.
RE: How will WITE differ from TOAW & HPS?
As long as I don't have to calculate the pulses for each attacking unit a la TOAW i'll be grateful.
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RE: How will WITE differ from TOAW & HPS?
As long as I don't have to calculate the pulses for each attacking unit a la TOAW i'll be grateful.
Not in this game. Also my pet hate in TOAW -the hours I wasted tying to get another round only to have the turn end early. This game flows logically and smoothly - Indentify objective - assess it's strength, assess it's potential to increase it's strength, decide how much force you need to apply to secure the objective,and what resources could be available to increase your force strength, roll the dice (Not real dice, but there are plenty of variables). Repeat until Berlin or Moscow and the Volga are secured - easy.
It's only a Game
RE: How will WITE differ from TOAW & HPS?
Well, Bob, that's one way of doing it!
Could be you are doing some routine deployment stuff, with the occasional assault which is asking for it, then you spot, no, smell a potential opportunity, a weakness. (Andy did this to me yesterday: he was probing for, and found, the gap in my defensive lines. Damn!) Then you scan round to see what's available to take advantage of it. This is all taking place within a framework, a general strategic intent, like in chess, with clear logistics and all that stuff in place, but the art for me is when you 'sense' these opportunities. I'm not very good on the odds stuff - I do sometimes get it badly wrong and get a bloody nose - but I really enjoy the gambler's nose. Risk.
Could be you are doing some routine deployment stuff, with the occasional assault which is asking for it, then you spot, no, smell a potential opportunity, a weakness. (Andy did this to me yesterday: he was probing for, and found, the gap in my defensive lines. Damn!) Then you scan round to see what's available to take advantage of it. This is all taking place within a framework, a general strategic intent, like in chess, with clear logistics and all that stuff in place, but the art for me is when you 'sense' these opportunities. I'm not very good on the odds stuff - I do sometimes get it badly wrong and get a bloody nose - but I really enjoy the gambler's nose. Risk.
Stuart 'von Jaeger' Hunt
WitE Alpha, Beta Tester
WitE Alpha, Beta Tester
- karonagames
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RE: How will WITE differ from TOAW & HPS?
I think there will be as many styles of play as there are players - there are not many games that can accommodate different playstyles, but this one does.
It's only a Game
RE: How will WITE differ from TOAW & HPS?
ORIGINAL: Crimguy
As long as I don't have to calculate the pulses for each attacking unit a la TOAW i'll be grateful.
Man, no kidding...I never figured that out.
RE: How will WITE differ from TOAW & HPS?
The next person I see who says they liked this pulse movement business with TOAW will be the first. Near as I can tell, it's a total turkey with the wargaming crowd. People enjoyed that game despite the mechanic, not because of it.
So far as WiTE goes, the turn ends when you want it to end and never before. You can use as much or as little of your movement as you wish. There may be good tactical or even strategic reasons to not march everybody to their maximum possible ability, but that decision lies with you, the player, not with some half baked mechanic.
So far as WiTE goes, the turn ends when you want it to end and never before. You can use as much or as little of your movement as you wish. There may be good tactical or even strategic reasons to not march everybody to their maximum possible ability, but that decision lies with you, the player, not with some half baked mechanic.
WitE Alpha Tester
RE: How will WITE differ from TOAW & HPS?
I hope this one differs a lot from TOAW. A lot. TOAW is just unplayable...[:(]
RE: How will WITE differ from TOAW & HPS?
On the planning screen there would be an estimate on how many pulses a battle would take.
RE: How will WITE differ from TOAW & HPS?
ORIGINAL: Flaviusx
The next person I see who says they liked this pulse movement business with TOAW will be the first.
First! [;)] Normally I set the mrpb (maximum rounds per battle) to 3 or 4 and I like the residual uncertainty. I think that TOAW is simply not appropriate to play very long campaigns but I prefer medium size scenarios. I think that is too abstract that a unit could fight spending his whole turn to open a hole and other units could move across it without no penalty.
"Klotzen, nicht Kleckern!"Generaloberst Heinz Wilhelm Guderian
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