OT - WWII quiz

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brian brian
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RE: OT - WWII quiz

Post by brian brian »

280,000 Germans in Denmark? That's quite a garrison....must have been quite a Resistance, then?
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praem
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RE: OT - WWII quiz

Post by praem »

I do not know the name of the officer, if it was not Bernard Montgommery - But it was the British. The why - keeping it from the USSR (who invaded Bornholm some weeks later - the Island forgotten by the danish governtment - Bornholm was handed back to Denmark in 1946)
 
I know there erupted some figthing btw. the Danish Brigade (landing from Sweden after the surrender) including the Royal Guard taking posession of the kings palace, but that hardly constitutes liberation. This "P" brigade - are they Polish?
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praem
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RE: OT - WWII quiz

Post by praem »

the 280.000 Germans wasnt disarmed until they reached the German border - they where allowed by theBritish to walk home guns in hand. They then became prisoners of war upon reaching the border.
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RE: OT - WWII quiz

Post by marcuswatney »

ORIGINAL: praem

I do not know the name of the officer, if it was not Bernard Montgommery - But it was the British. The why - keeping it from the USSR (who invaded Bornholm some weeks later - the Island forgotten by the danish governtment - Bornholm was handed back to Denmark in 1946)

I know there erupted some figthing btw. the Danish Brigade (landing from Sweden after the surrender) including the Royal Guard taking posession of the kings palace, but that hardly constitutes liberation. This "P" brigade - are they Polish?

Nearly there praem! Well done. You've got the why. But to understand what was going on, you need to deduce who those lads with the P were (not Poles). Here's a hint from my father's book:

"I suppose I should have given some account of my regiment, but as I am not setting myself up as a critic or exponent of military strategy, it is enough to say that I had been attached for the last two years to ******* Regiment; whose task, in battle, was to send forward patrols, equipped with high-powered wireless sets, to any part of the battlefield; and there to act as the Army Commander's eyes and ears, by sending back, without delay, minute by minute information on the progress of the battle; the speed with which information is sent back is as important as the information itself. We were trained for one purpose only: to get hold of and send back speedy and accurate information to wherever it was most needed. Our code name was P********, and it was by this more intriguing name that we were usually known; and now, as a member of A Squadron, I was setting off for the invasion of Normandy"

from The Enemy Within by John Watney (Hodder & Stoughton, 1946)
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RE: OT - WWII quiz

Post by paulderynck »

Pathfinder?
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RE: OT - WWII quiz

Post by Norden_slith »

Pinkerton? [;)]
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Szilard
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RE: OT - WWII quiz

Post by Szilard »

ORIGINAL: marcuswatney

Nearly there praem! Well done. You've got the why. But to understand what was going on, you need to deduce who those lads with the P were (not Poles). Here's a hint from my father's book:

"I suppose I should have given some account of my regiment, but as I am not setting myself up as a critic or exponent of military strategy, it is enough to say that I had been attached for the last two years to ******* Regiment; whose task, in battle, was to send forward patrols, equipped with high-powered wireless sets, to any part of the battlefield; and there to act as the Army Commander's eyes and ears, by sending back, without delay, minute by minute information on the progress of the battle; the speed with which information is sent back is as important as the information itself. We were trained for one purpose only: to get hold of and send back speedy and accurate information to wherever it was most needed. Our code name was P********, and it was by this more intriguing name that we were usually known; and now, as a member of A Squadron, I was setting off for the invasion of Normandy"

from The Enemy Within by John Watney (Hodder & Stoughton, 1946)

My guess is that they were looking for Niels Bohr & anything to do with fission bomb experiments?

"P" = ummm Pegasus?
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RE: OT - WWII quiz

Post by Szilard »

ORIGINAL: Szilard

ORIGINAL: marcuswatney

Nearly there praem! Well done. You've got the why. But to understand what was going on, you need to deduce who those lads with the P were (not Poles). Here's a hint from my father's book:

"I suppose I should have given some account of my regiment, but as I am not setting myself up as a critic or exponent of military strategy, it is enough to say that I had been attached for the last two years to ******* Regiment; whose task, in battle, was to send forward patrols, equipped with high-powered wireless sets, to any part of the battlefield; and there to act as the Army Commander's eyes and ears, by sending back, without delay, minute by minute information on the progress of the battle; the speed with which information is sent back is as important as the information itself. We were trained for one purpose only: to get hold of and send back speedy and accurate information to wherever it was most needed. Our code name was P********, and it was by this more intriguing name that we were usually known; and now, as a member of A Squadron, I was setting off for the invasion of Normandy"

from The Enemy Within by John Watney (Hodder & Stoughton, 1946)

My guess is that they were looking for Niels Bohr & anything to do with fission bomb experiments?

"P" = ummm Pegasus?

Tho I guess Bohr escaped to Britain sometime earlier, didn't he. But maybe looking to secure the place where he did his previous research - was that Bornholm?
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RE: OT - WWII quiz

Post by marcuswatney »

The 'why' was correctly identified by praem in post 1362. Here is a final hint to help you deduce the P.

The caption reads: "The Duke of Kent surveys the P****** A Squadron in Richmond Park, escorted by a helmeted Major David Niven with "Hoppy" Hopkinson doing an impersonation of Kenneth Connor behind."

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RE: OT - WWII quiz

Post by Greywolf »

P is for "Phantom"
 
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RE: OT - WWII quiz

Post by Shannon V. OKeets »

ORIGINAL: marcuswatney

The 'why' was correctly identified by praem in post 1362. Here is a final hint to help you deduce the P.

The caption reads: "The Duke of Kent surveys the P****** A Squadron in Richmond Park, escorted by a helmeted Major David Niven with "Hoppy" Hopkinson doing an impersonation of Kenneth Connor behind."

Image
Oh well, When I woke up this morning I thought Pidgeon might be the right answer.[:)]
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RE: OT - WWII quiz

Post by marcuswatney »

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Oh well, When I woke up this morning I thought Pidgeon might be the right answer.[:)]
Actually, you're very close. The Phantom officers named their personal scout cars after birds. My father's was called Wigeon.

I'll write up the full story this evening.
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RE: OT - WWII quiz

Post by praem »

looking forward to that
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RE: OT - WWII quiz

Post by marcuswatney »

Phantom's official name was the GHQ Liaison Regiment, and you can read about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GHQ_Liaison_Regiment . There is an article about the radios here http://www.vmarsmanuals.co.uk/newslette ... ignals.pdf .

In 1942, my father was exhausted towards the end of a long marching exercise when a friend drew alongside him in an armoured car and said: "I'll be in the mess in 20 minutes: see you there later." There and then, my father decided that if he was going to go to war at all, he would rather do so sitting-down. So he got his friend to organise a transfer for him into Phantom.

Phantom was one of Britain's private armies. It took orders only from the generals back at GHQ, and was not obliged to follow the orders of any field commander it was not attached to. Its purpose quite simply was to be the eyes and ears of those generals, so they could have up-to-the-minute information. For example, on one occasion in Normandy my father was ordered to discover exactly who controlled a particular hill. He went on to that hill, and was promptly shelled by both sides, revealing that both believed the hill was controlled by the enemy, and that in fact nobody controlled it!

The patrols were very small (typically nine to fifteen men) centred around a radio truck with a transmitter capable of reaching London from Normandy. There were jeeps, motorbikes and scout-cars. The scout-cars were armoured but unarmed, and had the novel feature of being able to go as fast backwards as forwards ... so they could get out of trouble as quickly as they got into it. However, my father told me that he much preferred to recconnoitre on a motorbike. He said the most dangerous moment was when you returned to friendly lines. If you were on a motorbike you were non-threatening, and troops were likely to hold their fire until they had identified you ... whereas if you roared round a corner in an armoured vehicle they'd shoot first and ask questions later.

Phantom was also incredibly effective at destroying Tigers. The great problem with the Tiger was that it had a noisy engine that had to be warmed up in the mornings before it could move. Two Phantom patrols a few miles apart would each take a bearing on the revving engines, send those bearings straight back to London, who would use triangulation to determine the location of the tanks and immediately send fighter-bombers into the attack. The Germans never worked out how it was their Tigers kept being destroyed before they had even advanced to the front-line.

My father was scheduled to land on D-day at 11pm on Mike Red, but delays at sea meant they went in on the morning of D+1. While waiting out at sea, he logged the very first radio message to come out of Normandy, from 6th Airborne, timed at 0740: "Have captured intact both bridges. Report HQ 2 Battalion 125 Panzer Grenadier Regiment at Collombelles. All informed."

My father fought in Normandy for six weeks. Then in the early hours of 18 July he was severely wounded by Luftwaffe dive-bombers. He said the medical services were outstanding: he was back in England within 24 hours. That's why he missed the jaunt to Copenhagen.

On 2 May 1945, 6 Airborne Division reached the Baltic, cutting Denmark off from Germany. They met the Russians the next day. But the Btitish were suspicious of Soviet intentions, especially given the way Denmark controls access to the Baltic. The Soviets were already sniffing around Bornholm. The Germans in Denmark wanted to surrender to the Western Allies and were fearful of the Soviets. The trouble is that the rules of war say that you can only surrender a formation to an enemy officer. You cannot surrender your command to partisans (not least because, under the Geneva Convention, the capturing power immediately becomes responsible for the welfare of the prisoners).

So a close friend of my father, probably John Sadoine, Ronald Stanton or Micky Masters, was given the extraordinary order to drive as rapidly as possible, stopping for no-one, all the way to Copenhagen and there to accept the German surrender, thus liberating Denmark in the name of the Western Allies. If he hadn't been wounded, it would have been my father, so, being half-Danish, he was a little disappointed.

If anyone is interested in this unusual unit, you can read more about D-Day in my father's book The Enemy Wiithin by John Watney (Hodder & Stoughton, 1946). Kingsley Amis told my father privately that it was the best book to come out of the war, which was rather nice of him.
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RE: OT - WWII quiz

Post by Froonp »

I though it would be time for a new Quiz :

What is this plane ? What model is it, which air force flew it, when and where.

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marcuswatney
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RE: OT - WWII quiz

Post by marcuswatney »

How weird. The roundels identify it as RAF, but I have never known an RAF aircraft with a belly gunner, nor with an open dorsal gun. Also, the armament is absolutely pathetic, which suggests an early-war design. And what about the strange tail?

I would say this is a captured enemy aircraft pressed into service with the RAF. I'm going to guess it is a Condor (on the assumption that the inboard engine is hidden behind the outboard one). Pre-war, the Condor was a German passenger aircraft, and in your picture you can see a row of cabin windows.
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RE: OT - WWII quiz

Post by marcuswatney »

Well, it is definitely not a Condor. Now I am wondering if it is a captured Japanese aircraft: the nose reminds me of a Nell.
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RE: OT - WWII quiz

Post by Froonp »

ORIGINAL: marcuswatney

How weird. The roundels identify it as RAF, but I have never known an RAF aircraft with a belly gunner, nor with an open dorsal gun. Also, the armament is absolutely pathetic, which suggests an early-war design. And what about the strange tail?

I would say this is a captured enemy aircraft pressed into service with the RAF. I'm going to guess it is a Condor (on the assumption that the inboard engine is hidden behind the outboard one). Pre-war, the Condor was a German passenger aircraft, and in your picture you can see a row of cabin windows.

ORIGINAL: marcuswatney

Well, it is definitely not a Condor. Now I am wondering if it is a captured Japanese aircraft: the nose reminds me of a Nell.
Hi Marcus !!! [:D]

Well,
- Service with the RAF, no.
- Early war design, yes.
- Captured enemy aircraft, no.
- Condor, no.
- Captured Japanese aircraft, no.
- G3M Nell, no.

G3M2 Nell :

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RE: OT - WWII quiz

Post by Shannon V. OKeets »

ORIGINAL: Froonp

I though it would be time for a new Quiz :

What is this plane ? What model is it, which air force flew it, when and where.

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Given the colors on the tail, I would guess French.
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RE: OT - WWII quiz

Post by Froonp »

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Given the colors on the tail, I would guess French.
French, no. Colder than RAF.
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