Looking for strategy games without chores

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sterckxe
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RE: Looking for strategy games without chores

Post by sterckxe »

ORIGINAL: Jim_H
I spend half my life on this forum and the other on BoardGameGeek drooling! How sad and lonely am I? My wife would probably agree [;)]

Memoir ’44 FTF is a hoot to play – we’ve got this little group of gamers who gather on a bi-weekly basis to play wargames and FTF really is the best wargaming experience – bar none.

What I would suggest is that you find some people in your area to play with – how to find them ? Well, ask around on the ‘Net (ConsimWorld, BoardGameGeek, here, …), go to a local convention to meet some people, there might even be a local club you know nothing about. If all else fails put an ad in the local paper or stick a note on the messageboard at work or anywhere else you can think of. I know this guy who moves around a lot (military) and he always manages to find local wargamers. Even our own little gaming group has 2 English guys who temporarily work in the area and were looking for some FTF action.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

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RE: Looking for strategy games without chores

Post by marcusm »

Jim, the GUI was pretty arcane but it had a fully scriptable Ai system.

Marcus


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HansBolter
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RE: Looking for strategy games without chores

Post by HansBolter »

ORIGINAL: sterckxe
ORIGINAL: Jim_H
I spend half my life on this forum and the other on BoardGameGeek drooling! How sad and lonely am I? My wife would probably agree [;)]

Memoir ’44 FTF is a hoot to play – we’ve got this little group of gamers who gather on a bi-weekly basis to play wargames and FTF really is the best wargaming experience – bar none.

What I would suggest is that you find some people in your area to play with – how to find them ? Well, ask around on the ‘Net (ConsimWorld, BoardGameGeek, here, …), go to a local convention to meet some people, there might even be a local club you know nothing about. If all else fails put an ad in the local paper or stick a note on the messageboard at work or anywhere else you can think of. I know this guy who moves around a lot (military) and he always manages to find local wargamers. Even our own little gaming group has 2 English guys who temporarily work in the area and were looking for some FTF action.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx



My local group just started the Case Blue scenario in the combined Case Blue/Enemy at trhe Gates game in the Operational Combat Series game line from The Gamers. I'm commanding the Caucasas region on a three player Russian team. We should be getting to the first Russian turn tomorrow night. It's been great fun getting back into face to face boardgaming. The bullshooting alone is worth the get together!
Hans

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Adam Parker
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RE: Looking for strategy games without chores

Post by Adam Parker »

ORIGINAL: sterckxe

There's an unconfirmed rumour that Memoir '44 is going to be turned into a pc wargame. It's all hush-hush right now but my source is an industry insider so it could be true.

Whoever cracks that market will open the door for Battle Cry and Command and Colors Ancients (now with its 3rd Expansion Pack in P500).

@ Jonathan re your AH collection:

I envy you man! My first purchase was Fortress Europa and when I shortly after got hold of Bulge 65 (straight from a very wargame crowded mass retail shelf - in the Myer Department Store actually - for fellow Aussies, how's that?) I took it for granted and later threw it out!

Silly boy. 2 years ago I managed to finally get my hand on B17 a game I cherrish. I once had it in hand, mint, in a shop too and took it for granted putting it down, never expecting AH to ever close its doors.
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leastonh1
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RE: Looking for strategy games without chores

Post by leastonh1 »

Eddy & Hans - I need to find a local group now you guys have posted about it!! I'll get Xmas out of the way and then am determined to find one. I haven't done anything like that since I used to spend all my waking hours playing AD&D. Oh, the memories! Hans, I keep meaning to ask...Is your namesake THE Hans Bolter of WWII tank fame? Wasn't he a Panzer or Tiger commander? I know the name...need Google...

Marcus - I've had another look since you mentioned it. Unfortunately, it looks like the development stopped in 2004, which is a great shame. I might give it another go. Sometimes, you come back things like this and it just clicks. Can't hurt to try. Thanks for reminding me of the game anyway [:)]

Regards,
Jim
2nd Lt. George Rice: Looks like you guys are going to be surrounded.
Richard Winters: We're paratroopers, Lieutenant, we're supposed to be surrounded.
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ravinhood
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RE: Looking for strategy games without chores

Post by ravinhood »

I would really enjoy Memoir 44 coming to the computer. I don't have the board game, but, I've read quite a bit about it and seen many screen shots. It appears young people really enjoy it as well like risk. I think most young people take a liking to minatures. I know I did. It's another reason the Tin Soldiers series is so appealing. Wish they would get back to those roots, but, apparently they never will. Couldn't you let Koios do a Medieval game at least Erik et al? ;) The "War of the Roses" would be fine. ;)
WE/I WANT 1:1 or something even 1:2 death animations in the KOIOS PANZER COMMAND SERIES don't forget Erik! ;) and Floating Paratroopers We grew up with Minor, Marginal and Decisive victories why rock the boat with Marginal, Decisive and Legendary?


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RE: Looking for strategy games without chores

Post by Jonathan Palfrey »

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker
I envy you man! My first purchase was Fortress Europa...

Maybe age has some advantages -- though I never get the chance to play my old games, which have merely been piled in the attic for the last ten years, and I don't even remember for sure which ones I still have.

I see from the Web that Fortress Europa (which I never bought and don't remember) was released in 1978; I started buying Avalon Hill games about ten years earlier than that. I think the first two I bought were Bismarck and Tactics II, both a bit oddball in different ways, and not really typical of games to follow.

D-Day was a classic game, one could ponder endlessly the perfect way to set up the initial German defence of France. It probably didn't simulate reality very well, but it gave considerable satisfaction as a game. I remember playing it by post, using the AHIKS system whereby random numbers were obtained from share prices published in newspapers. As far as I remember, I played the Germans while Peter Schreiber (a German living in Munich!) played the Allies.
ezzler
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RE: Looking for strategy games without chores

Post by ezzler »

Best Lite Games ever...

Colonisation
Alpha Centurai
Perfect General
Dictator {16k no less!}
Empire deluxe
Buzz Aldrin
Lost Admiral
Grandest Fleet
Civilisation
x com series
Moo series { not 3 }
master of magic
Dune 2 { ok so it was RTS }
Sim city
Railroad tycoon
Mechwarrior
Speedball 2
Archon
Chaos
101 Airbourne
Imperium
Colonial Conquest { there is one i'm forgetting imperial conquest or something .. made a sequel both were pretty good }
Glory { or was it the glory . Excellent ACW game}
Flight commander 2 andthe 2 WW2 versions also
Front mission series
Rebelstar raiders x versions
Ogre GEV
Streets of Stalingrad { basically a map and text  attack on the city .. very good for its year .. useless now }
Europa 2000 and that other apocalyptic rpg + Autoduel and battlecars .. both great.
Pacific general { and the series}
Carrier strike
Clash of steel
History line 1914-18 { well I liked it } + battle isle series
Steel panthers and subsequent series
Battles of the south pacific and Guadalcanal { i think by qqp }
star fleet 2 krellan command

And for a really easy brain rest the tie fighter / x-wing series.

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leastonh1
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RE: Looking for strategy games without chores

Post by leastonh1 »

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
I would really enjoy Memoir 44 coming to the computer. I don't have the board game, but, I've read quite a bit about it and seen many screen shots. It appears young people really enjoy it as well like risk. I think most young people take a liking to minatures. I know I did. It's another reason the Tin Soldiers series is so appealing. Wish they would get back to those roots, but, apparently they never will. Couldn't you let Koios do a Medieval game at least Erik et al? ;) The "War of the Roses" would be fine. ;)

It's well worth the money RH. I probably spend more time collecting board games than playing them due to lack of opponents, unfortunately. This is one I read a lot about before buying, like you. I haven't regretted it as everything is top quality, including the mechanics of the rules. If they could reproduce this game faithfully on the PC, it would be amazing!

Days of Wonder have dozens of extra scenarios to freely download from their website and this game is great fun with Vassal.

Regards,
Jim
2nd Lt. George Rice: Looks like you guys are going to be surrounded.
Richard Winters: We're paratroopers, Lieutenant, we're supposed to be surrounded.
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cdbeck
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RE: Looking for strategy games without chores

Post by cdbeck »

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
Couldn't you let Koios do a Medieval game at least Erik et al? ;) The "War of the Roses" would be fine. ;)

Psssh... the war of the roses if barely medieval (this being said by the medievalists that studies 14th-15th century Mediterranean privateering)! War of the Roses took place in 1455-1485 (and it's only England, yuck... [:'(]) How about the Hundred Years War instead. Agincourt baby... Agincourt.

Although... if we wanted to push this into the 17th century, a Tin Soldiers version of the Thirty Years War might have some interesting potential.

SoM
"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet!"
(Kill them all. God will know his own.)

-- Arnaud-Armaury, the Albigensian Crusade
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ravinhood
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RE: Looking for strategy games without chores

Post by ravinhood »

That's fine SOM I'm really open to anything medieval and/or dark ages as long as it's done by Koios with those wonderful painted look so real minature figures. ;) After they had done Tin Soldiers:JC I thought sure we'd finally got a developer who was interested in and going to do ancients and medieval stuff for a long long time. I was shocked when I found out they went to WWII stuff. Nothing wrong with PC:OWS it's a different type of Combat Mission to me (without random generated maps or buy point quick battle system), but, it was decent enough. I thought maybe Erik might let them make a Medieval type game though since MTW and M2TW are so popular. Never know maybe someday.
WE/I WANT 1:1 or something even 1:2 death animations in the KOIOS PANZER COMMAND SERIES don't forget Erik! ;) and Floating Paratroopers We grew up with Minor, Marginal and Decisive victories why rock the boat with Marginal, Decisive and Legendary?


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Hertston
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RE: Looking for strategy games without chores

Post by Hertston »

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
I was shocked when I found out they went to WWII stuff. Nothing wrong with PC:OWS it's a different type of Combat Mission to me (without random generated maps or buy point quick battle system), but, it was decent enough.

Sales, presumably.. or in the case of Tin Soldiers, lack of them. WW2 just sells so much better than ancients among computer wargamers regardless of the quality of the game. I agree that PC:OWS is decent enough, but it still comes across pretty much as Combat Mission 'lite' and inferior to that series. Tin Soldiers, on the other hand was exceptional and unique. I don't know about just ancients and medieval; I thought there was was huge potential for a Napoleonic and ACW games as well.
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RE: Looking for strategy games without chores

Post by Jonathan Palfrey »

Hello ezz, thanks for your list, but your idea of a 'lite' game must be very different from mine.

I've played all four versions of Sid Meier's Civilization, and was addicted to them for some time, but the game is full of chores, and it's always had a thick manual -- currently more than 200 pages. I don't play it any more; there's something very attractive about it, but I think it has fundamental design flaws.

SimCity is also full of chores, and it's not really a game: it's non-competitive. I think it's officially described as a toy. Admittedly, the manual is relatively modest in size: a few dozen pages.

I bought Railroad Tycoon, but I was so appalled at the complexity and the chores that I never played it. It has a 100-page manual. I wanted something like David Watts's Railway Rivals board game, which is much simpler and fun to play; it has two pages of rules. The rules are summarized even more concisely here.
ezzler
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RE: Looking for strategy games without chores

Post by ezzler »

Sim city was full of chores now you mention it .. all those pipes !!
Civ has plenty too , but easy ones that arent that burdonsome.

Railroads ..you must have bought a latest incarnation. it was very easy .. lay track and buy trains . select goods and the model pretty much did the rest.
A very SMART game generally.

For me where a game is LITE is the difference between say Carrier strike and Uncommon valour.
CS is just scout .. load weapons , assign strikes to targets and watch the results. 

UV needs proper task force consideration .. air cover .. boming missions .. training flights .. commanders to assign etc etc its got  a lot more detail at the cost of a lot more chores.

must confess my most played lite game is solitaire.

I am currently enjoying Armageddon empires by cryptic comet. Card and combat game.
Once the interface and some of the odd structures and armies rules are learnt it is good fun. There is an odd rule where an army in a fortification that is besieged automatically goes out of supply with very heavy penalties on the next turn , unless the seige is broken. It means that defensive structures have little impact in themselves and really need army size garrisons to be defended. 
 
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RE: Looking for strategy games without chores

Post by Jonathan Palfrey »

My most-played lite game so far is Slay. I've been playing it for 12 years and continue to play it now and then. It's a good game, but it's semi-abstract with only a slight connection to reality, and it's very small and quick. Ideally I'd like something a bit more substantial and with more of a claim to simulate something.

I've also played Spider Solitaire sometimes in the past. It's more interesting than ordinary Solitaire, though that's not saying much.

I think there are plenty of simple and elegant board games around, but I haven't taken an interest because I don't have anyone to play them with face-to-face. However, I used to play board games by post in the 1970s and 1980s; I suppose these days it could be done more quickly and easily by e-mail. I should look into it.

It's a shame that there's such a lack of simple and elegant computer games. Perhaps because computer games are made by programmers accustomed to working on large, complex, and laborious programs, so it comes naturally to them to make large, complex, and laborious games?
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Veldor
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RE: Looking for strategy games without chores

Post by Veldor »

Matrix's Hornet Leader certainly classifies as Wargame Lite with no chores.

Even though I "get" what your saying about Civilization and such having "chores".... I think one problem here is that chores is a point of view. Truthfully speaking anything in a game that you dont find fun is a chore. So even in a first person shooter or whatever if you might need to grind on grunts before you get to the medium weight bad guy. Or run back and forth to get some door open. I find those mostly boring and chore-like. Logistics/Supply such as implemented in Advanced Tactics is however fun to me and not a chore because its so integral to success in the game.

It's all a point of view but you've definitely pointed out that even simpler games can have many chores.
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RE: Looking for strategy games without chores

Post by Jonathan Palfrey »

Hello Veldor, thanks for the recommendation of Hornet Leader; I must admit that I'm somewhat prejudiced against all games of modern combat, but that's my personal problem and I apologize for it. Perhaps I'd enjoy Hornet Leader if I tried it.

I'd define a 'chore' as any kind of decision that a real commander-in-chief would normally delegate to a subordinate. Either because it's relatively unimportant or because it requires relatively little intelligence; or perhaps both.

In the game of Civilization, many decisions that are important and interesting when you have only one or few cities become annoying and repetitive chores when you have many cities. So it is in real life, but in real life the leader of a great empire simply delegates these chores to others. And certainly he doesn't give detailed instructions to each of his many military units.

I know that some players enjoy doing chores and even clamour for more of them. Myself, I have little time to spare and I don't want to waste it on chores. I'd prefer a game from which the chores have either been removed, or are performed automatically by the program; leaving me to make the major decisions of strategic importance, which is what I enjoy doing. (I don't claim to be remarkably good at it, but nevertheless it's what I enjoy doing!)
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RE: Looking for strategy games without chores

Post by Jonathan Palfrey »

-- double-posted because of Web hangup --
Jonathan Palfrey
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RE: Looking for strategy games without chores

Post by Jonathan Palfrey »

There's yet another kind of decision that I don't want to find myself making in a game. I don't know quite what to call it. It's a decision that the real commander-in-chief couldn't feasibly have made even if he'd wanted to.

Example: in Forge of Freedom, the player can and must decide exactly when and where to build economic resources, such as mines, plantations, and factories. It seems to me that in real life, in the USA or in the CSA, these would have been built because some individual or company decided that it would be profitable to build such a resource in that place at that time; and not because it was decreed by the federal government. This is not a game about the USSR.
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RE: Looking for strategy games without chores

Post by hazxan »

Jonathon, it's an interesting point about a game player making decisions that no individual would make. I thought it was just me, but often when playing CIV, EU, HOI or any strategy game, I wonder just who it is I am supposed to be? On the surface maybe a silly question, but it's linked to what makes a chore rather than challenge.

For example, the commanders who decided to invade Normandy in WWII did not have to build every battalion, then form these in to brigades, then armies, control the air cover, build and fuel ever naval warship and transport, move all forces to the departing areas, then set their destinations individually etc etc . Labouring a point, but this is exactly what most strategic wargames expect you to do. All to often, I fail in these games because I forgot to follow exactly the required sequence of clicks and a couple of units got left behind or something. Feels like I'm being punished for not being OCD, rather than a bad strategist!

What I want is to be able to say (thinking specifically of HOI but most games are equally guilty) "I want these 8 divisions combined as my invasion force. I want them to sail from here, to here and invade". Wherever those divisions are right now, whatever transport is needed, I want an AI subordinate to manage the detail. This is more or less exactly what happens in real life, after all.

Having said that, I'm surprised you mention Civ 4 as having too many chores. All the other Civs, I agree, but I find Civ 4 relatively chore-free. Much of the game can be automated, the end game doesn't drag like it used to and there's options to use smaller worlds and larger 'time units'. Maybe if you have a humungous civ you'd have a lot of micromanagement, but I find either I've won before my civ is too humungous - or if it's a humungous AI civ, they've beaten me

Thanks for starting some really interesting discussion!
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