Game results - Tell us how your 1 player game ended

[Joel Billings]

We'd like to continue to improve WitE2, and to do that, we need your feedback. In an effort to better understand where play balance is these days, we'd like to hear from players on how your games have gone. I'm going to start two threads, one for games between 2 players, and one for games against the AI. This thread is for 1 player games. Your information will help us and is greatly appreciated. Please limit this thread to just game reports. Take any other comments to a separate thread. Thanks! The info requested is as follows:

Scenario Name
Axis Player Forum Name/Prior Experience Level (if AI, list AI and play level, if custom, please describe settings)
Soviet Player Forum Name/Prior Experience Level (if AI, list AI and play level, if custom, please describe settings)
Version of Game at Start/Version of Game at End
Axis HWM (if campaign) or Points ratio (if scenario)
Ending Date/Victory Result (ex. Marginal Soviet Victory) or if not played to end, sentence re why game ended and who was perceived winner
Axis Losses/Soviet Losses (you can just give us total permanent losses in men, or men/afv/aircraft)


Different Experience Levels (pick one from below as best you can, don't guess your opponent's experience level - they can post that info and I will copy it into the game report and delete the post):
Novice - First WitE2 game
Advanced Beginner - Not first game, but have only played a few games (<50 hours)/not necessarily had experience with the scenario/side
Semi-Experienced - Have played several games (>50 hours) and have some experience with the particular scenario
Experienced - Have played multiple games, including some campaigns. (>100 hours) Have prior experience with both the particular scenario and the side played in this game.
Very Experienced - Have played many games, including many campaigns. Have played both sides in the scenario being played.




Example of Game Report:

1941 Campaign
AxisFanboy39/Advanced Beginner
AI/Custom (all 100 except Soviet morale 110)
1.00.11/1.01.07
HWM 565
22 February 1942/German player resigned after facing first winter, short of historical front line in 41, pushed far back and took too many losses in winter to make it worth continuing.
Losses Axis/Soviet
Men 1558k/4133k
AFV 4112/16434
Aircraft 3342/16540

[MarkShot]

Joel,

I have no results to post, but I wanted to say thank you. It is interesting idea to seek feedback by community.

I think the goal of WITE-2 is a very ambitious vision. It is clear that the goal is to respect history and not violate it making it just another HOI4 wannabe. But at the same time, you must give the player a means by which he/she can truly make a difference and have sense of being a victorious military strategist. Of course, this is easy on the scale of games like CM and MIUS, but to cover the entire war and a theater. It is a very impressive thing to pull off, and also offers scenarios which may be played from either side. Often historical imbalance is handled with scenarios as "best played as ...".

I am convinced that the game needs balancing. Mainly based on what others have said. My play would against the AI would be pathetic in any case.

Most of the concepts put forth in the game relate to some easy to understand real world analogue ... like reserves, hasty/deliberate attacks, air directives ... but I must say I truly don't know what Assault HQ is suppose to represent.

Why is this important? Because y'all have invested much work on the modeling the world. So, when you come across something that seems there just for play balance ... well, it seems very out of place.

I only play hard core war games. I did give the whole HOI4+DLC experience a try and I was terribly disappointed. For all I know, I was playing a 4X Sci-Fi title cast in the 1940s.

Mainly, I just want to say thank you. Yes, make it better. Capture historical flavor and outcome for at least AI v AI games player at Normal; and players of average skill playing either side at normal.

Buffing the OPFOR should not be required by average players. This is really something for hard core players who want challenge, but prefer not to PBEM.

Although the AI lacks true strategic intelligence, it does have a min/max advantage that is too tedious for the average human. So, it at least at the tactical level, it should make optimal decisions which may be beyond most humans at such scope.

So, go for it!

[Iam5not8]

StoB Campaign
GER AI Challenging (70%) / Hard (30%) - I changed difficulty according to situation
SOV Iam5not8 Experienced (from Beta) I consider myself as below average player
1.01.00beta to 1.01.1UDPI
Soviet Decisive Victory T95 (Berlin capture)
VP 1089
Losses Axis/Soviet
Men 6210/5197k
AFV 29626/39762
Aircraft 12506/25174

[battlefield91]

1941 Campaign
Axis player/Advanced Beginner (first grand campaign)
Soviet AI/Normal (all 100)
1.00.11/1.00.11
HWM 756
1 January 1942/ Won because VP >750
Losses Axis/Soviet
Men 721k/4265k
AFV 1606/16601
Aircraft 3076/17225

[hmatilai]

Just finished my first campaign as soviets that I played since late beta. Had a long break in between.

1941 Campaign
Soviet player / Novice
Axis AI/ Normal
No idea of the version, I've kept updating. The latest?
HWM 475
3 June 1945 / Draw
Losses Axis/Soviet
Men 8006k/11630k
AFV 46145/73114
Aircraft 29554/74580

I started the campaign on beta and kept updating the game. That could've affected some gameplay I guess, I didn't check the patch notes of what's changed.

The campaign proceeded exceedingly well till end of 1942 as axis didn't come near the historical lines. End of 1942 started with a big push and Stalingrad-type of losses for the axis till the spring rasputitsa in 1943. After that I probably had huge supply problems which I only noticed sometime in 1944 and couldn't figure out for the rest of the war even with disbanding large number of troops and merging units.

After coming close to Mogilev-Minsk the AI didn't put up much of a fight, in a sense that it withdrew totally from Baltics and since then kept going back towards Germany on the North and Center several hexes at the time. In the south it put up desperate defence for Romania I fell badly back in the schedule as I was unable to break the lines in orderly fashion. In the north I captured Koenigsberg around the same time as Kiev. Advancing through Pripet took forever.

Overall I felt I didn't have an answer for the withdrawal tactics and my troops were constantly short of movement points. Combat delay didn't help with wide breakthroughs as mobile troops couldn't push far and anyways felt very brittle. Probably linked to the supply problem. I was somewhere around 30% short on supplies for last couple of years, also lacking ammo. At the end of the game I had 343k trucks sitting in the pool.

In the end it was just desperate push all over the front trying to drain German manpower pool in a all-out slugfest, with occasional pauses to regain cpp. Draining the manpower pool never happened and most of 1945 Axis men on the map just kept growing despite desperate measures, and at the end of the game still had 1331k men in the pool.

Overall an enjoyable game, and next I need to figure out the logistics a bit better and keep an eye on supply to figure out why troops weren't getting what they needed. Probably army was way too large even after I downsized it radically. After that perhaps figuring out the air war.

[hei1]

1944 Vistula to Berlin
hei1/Advanced Beginner (in wite2)
AI/Custom (all 100 except Soviet morale 110), no Air AI
1.01.09
HWM 674, VP 783
T7: German player resigned after taking too many losses in German counterattacks (dramaticly underestimating the power of Soviet rifle corps in '45 and the AI)
Losses Axis/Soviet
Men 1137k/2002k
AFV 5449/5681
Aircraft 2587/6840

[metaphore]

1941 Campaign
Axis player / Novice -> Semi-Experienced (> 500 hrs?)
Normal* difficulty (FOW; Mvmt FOW; Enhanced Player TB control)
1.00.11 -> 1.01.09

HWM 457
*The Challenge was to capture every Objective City at least during the same turn as indicated in the Victory Schedule;
*No Air Directive used (Air superiority, recon, bombing, etc.) except Naval interdiction with Rumanians and a single Ju 88 Geschwader.

=> Challenge failed 31 Aug 1941 (T11)
Axis Commander was executed for failing to take Dnepropetrovsk on turn 10.


I've tried, but a brand new thick and strong red wall was immediately teleported to defend it. Trying to capture Dnepropetrovsk by brute force during this turn would have seriously crippled the whole Panzer force South of the Pripyats Marshes making other objectives impossible to achieve in time. It's very probable that I would have failed to take it anyway.

Consequently, the city won't fall before at least a couple of turns unless the Soviet AI will retreat from this sector when the German spearheads will bypass it South and/or North (probably also giving up to defend around Zaporozhye) - Tallinn/Kiev/Odessa were left to be isolated the same way. Nonetheless, Odessa garrison is still rated at 254! despite full isolation for several turns... On top of it, hundreds of tons of supplies were actually airlifted to this place well within range of several full groups of 109! Hence, I'm also guessing (with good reasons) that I won't be able to take it anytime soon or I will probably fail here too.

As for Rzhev... then Kalinin... hmm.
I still can't figure out how to achieve those in time without bleeding to death all my infantry divisions and not being able to advance anywhere else. In another try at the same game, I've taken Vyazma on turn 3, Smolensk and Velikie Luki both felt on turn 2. Ten turns later, I was still struggling to avoid a complete isolation of the main part of this front without any hope to complete those objective in time. The red wall was reconstitued much faster than I could advance. Of course, It became stronger and stronger, then deeper and deeper!

If the push in one direction become too obvious, due to the concentration of mobile forces, the AI will just build wall after wall of units all the way to this objective. I can trick it by pretending that I will strike there but strike somewhere else, usually at the limit of my mobile forces MPs. But it doesn't work at all in dense terrain or bad weather. Obviously, MP cost is the issue considering the AI ability to withdraw forces all over the front in order to build a very dense unit wall from one turn to another (regardless of terrain cost and communications, even in normal difficulty settings).

Losses Axis
Manpower: 193K (53K KIA)
AFV: 322
Aircraft: 203

Losses Soviet
Manpower: 2,052K (1,581K POW)
AFV: 8,169
Aircraft: 6,277

Soviet Div. Destroyed: 173
Armor Div.: 23
Mech Div.: 10
Infantry Div.: 117
Cavalry Div.: 16
Mountain Div.: 6
Security Div.: 1

On map Soviet Manpower: 3,494K (at the start of turn 11)

(curiously, even the Soviet theater box manpower total is actually slowly raising)

Soviet manpower influx here is a major issue too.

From the AAR posted here, in multiplayer games, this total at the same stage (with equivalent losses) is about 1M less manpower for the soviet on map. I've kept the Soviet Army growth under 3.5M for 10 turns with constant pocketing but at one point (soon!), I would have had to take a break while the Soviet will be 1M stronger in the meantime. Yet, 15 Soviet Div. + Odessa garrison are still waiting to surrender. Nonetheless, the above means that the average losses that the Axis need to inflict each turn is well over 200K in order to limit the growth of the Soviet force to something manageable (If someone want to reach all those objectives representing historical frontline and timeline).

Last, during those 10 turns, I didn't experience a single Soviet counterattack... while, at the same time, I was pocketing or holding the line with some very weak regiments at 0 CPP and 100 fatigue!

AI behaviour is also quite boring: build a red wall as dense and deep as possible all the way to the objective, magically withdraw everything (not fully pocketed) when it's outflanked and start the same thing again and again.

Even the AI air activity was reduced to barely nothing (recon) just after a few turns.

I guess it's the reason why the Red Army is growing and growing like that: it's simply not fighting.

(*edit: typos)

[Arthurius]

1941 Campaign
AxisArthurius/Experienced (first campaign run in WiTE2, but over 1000 hours of play in WiTE1)
AI/Custom (all 100 except Soviet morale 115)
1.00.11/1.01.07
HWM 844
Axis sudden victory on T68, October, 4, 1942
Men 1867k/9643k
AFV 6121/30786
Aircraft 12372/31205

[Iam5not8]

To outline the variability of the results (cf. meatphore post above), I'll share the status of a GC41 I'm playing vs SOV AI Challenging

GC41 Campaign Start T11 German
GER Iam5not8 Experienced (from Beta) I consider myself as below average player
SOV AI Challenging
1.01.10Beta

Current VP 443 - late on schedule Smolensk/Kiev/odessa under siege
Losses Axis/Soviet
Men 208k/2474
AFV 627/12513
Aircraft 1731/9618

OnMap Soviet 3035Kmen

As Metaphore mentioned in the post above, very few attacks by SOV AI so far. Quite a lot of Air activity. Plenty/many Reserve activation.

[metaphore]

ORIGINAL: Iam5not8

To outline the variability of the results (cf. meatphore post above), I'll share the status of a GC41 I'm playing vs SOV AI Challenging

GC41 Campaign Start T11 German
GER Iam5not8 Experienced (from Beta) I consider myself as below average player
SOV AI Challenging
1.01.10Beta

Current VP 443 - late on schedule Smolensk/Kiev/odessa under siege
Losses Axis/Soviet
Men 208k/2474
AFV 627/12513
Aircraft 1731/9618

OnMap Soviet 3035Kmen

As Metaphore mentioned in the post above, very few attacks by SOV AI so far. Quite a lot of Air activity. Plenty/many Reserve activation.

During the challenge, I had captured Minsk, Riga and Lvov on T1, then Pskov and Smolensk on T2 but stopped after this point to push North and East with my motorized Corps. Later, my AGN Infantry captured Tallinn on T8.

In the South, I've pushed hard and straight full East on T1, a few hexes further than Proskurov, then taking Vinnitsa and beyond on T2, also making a junction with the Rumanians. At this point, I was quite confident I'll be able to reach Dnepropetrovsk well ahead of schedule and did not bother too much about Kiev and Odessa, sending the Rumanian south to isolate the Port. I had two PanzerGruppen with half the mechanized forces and enough Infantry to do it. I might have lost it when I diverted one of my two PZG to pocket a large Soviet force accross the Dnepr East of Kiev, which was fully isolated on T9 (East-Kiev was also captured).

In the meantime, my mobile Nothern Forces were working towards Orel, as I was aiming for a junction of AGC and AGS around Kharkov and Kursk. But when I tried the last push for Dnepropetrovsk, I didn't achieve more than a small pocket a couple of hexes West of the city.

(*edit typos)

[metaphore]

ORIGINAL: Iam5not8

To outline the variability of the results (cf. meatphore post above), I'll share the status of a GC41 I'm playing vs SOV AI Challenging

GC41 Campaign Start T11 German
GER Iam5not8 Experienced (from Beta) I consider myself as below average player
SOV AI Challenging
1.01.10Beta

Current VP 443 - late on schedule Smolensk/Kiev/odessa under siege
Losses Axis/Soviet
Men 208k/2474
AFV 627/12513
Aircraft 1731/9618

OnMap Soviet 3035Kmen

As Metaphore mentioned in the post above, very few attacks by SOV AI so far. Quite a lot of Air activity. Plenty/many Reserve activation.

Hi Iam5not8,

Looking further into your campaign results for T11, which looks quite good, I don't think that there is that much "variability" with mine:

1. When playing the Soviet in "Challenging" settings, there will be a morale boost at 110 which is actually a good thing for the Axis player at the begining of the game. It means that the Soviet divisions under attack are less prone to "root", which would result, most of the time, of an escape from newly formed pockets, even fully closed ones (this is really weird to watch and counterintuitive at first). On the other hand, a retreating unit can be channeled into captivity and, after ten turns, it could ammount to an excess of 400K Soviet losses and 4K AFVs.

2. Other "Challenging" parameters affecting the Axis are not that much an issue in the early game: I had 53 Admin pts left at the begining of T11 because I was just starting to reorganize my command chain and was still runing with my starting PzG Assault HQs.

3. Supply wasn't an issue. I had a functioning depot network working fine and the Army get much more than required.

4. CPP/Fatigue recovery was the issue, especially for my tiny force of overused motorized infantry divisions, but all were under Assault HQs and there was nothing else I could have done than give them a break from time to time.

5. I might have been a bit more conservative with my Panzer units than you (a good part of my losses came from mechanized Axis Allies used to reduce pockets) but I think it's important to preserve them for later battles.

6. I didn't use my airforce except for defense against Soviet Ground Support and Odessa naval interdiction. Also, I didn't think that I needed it in the early game as it's burning a lot of ressources. I don't know why but the AI stopped at one point to send all those suicide strikes against my spearheads covered by Bf 109s, only running air supply and recon missions. Beside being completely passive on the ground (retreat, retreat, retreat...), defensive activation, on the other hand, worked just fine for everything not locked into my ZOCs.

7. And last: If you didn't capture Smolensk on T4 or Pskov on T2, you also failed the Victory Schedule Challenge. The most important part of my game setup was to capture everything as Scheduled on "Normal" settings... which I think I'm not able to complete, but nonetheless it's really worth trying!

My feeling is that, independently of the others, each objective is reachable in time, but finding a way to go after all of them from the start is quite a puzzle. So, I'm really looking forward for someone much more experienced, like you, to post a detailed AAR with a workable solution respecting the timing of the German advance... or up to where they fail to do it, preferably in "Normal" settings which should be the reference for anyone new to this game.

[Catop]

Road to Leningrad
AI/Custom (all 100, no Air Assist, No Lock HQ support)
Catop/Advanced beginner
1.01.08_Beta/1.01.09_Beta
3.3 to 1
Soviet Major Victory
Men 105675/494955
Guns 1745/7174
AFV 698/2588
Aircraft 560/1546

[DarenMoss]

1941 Campaign
AI/Custom (all 100 except Sov morale 110)
Daren Moss Experienced
1.00.11_Beta
HWM 581
Turn 28/Dec 41. Abandoned as Axis frontline collapsed to Sov Winter Offensive and lack of supply.
Losses Axis/Sov
Men: 828,430 / 3,777,826
AFV: 3,001 / 16,820
Aircraft: 4,034 / 18,596[/quote]

[DarenMoss]

1941 Campaign
AI/Custom (all 100 except Sov morale 110)
Daren Moss Experienced
1.01.02_Beta
HWM 472
Turn 8. Abandoned as AGC too far behind historical capture dates and LW Ftrs too low due to delays in F2/F4 update (a separate issue). Had captured Odessa and cut-off Leningrad though.

Losses Axis/Sov
Men:172,637 / 1,630,570
AFV: 909 / 9,316
Aircraft:1,373 / 9,883

[shermanny]

I have forgotten my opponent name. A reasonable player but new to this particular game engine. Scenario Stalingrad to Berlin; I took Soviets. House rule: I would pass on turn 1.

This gave him the chance to pull back and avoid the destruction of 6 Army. But it wasn't remotely enough to balance the game, and it wasn't really skill differential that did him in. It was the awesome possibilities that come with being able to motorize infantry and have them enjoy full mobility on the turn of motorization.

I'd keep back some guards rifle corps and attack with other forces, and when a hole opened up, I'd temporarily motorize a few guards rifle corps and send them through the holes to form essentially unbreakable pockets.

The summer of 1943 was calamity for the German player. I don't see what he could have done save precipitate retreats.

[miljkovics]

1941 Campaign
AI/Custom (all 100, no Air Assist, No Lock HQ support for Soviets, Enhanced TB control)
miljkovics/Advanced Beginner (played a lot of older War in Russia games but first time WitE)
1.00.11_Beta
HWM 807
4 July 1943/Had 807VP but no sudden victory?
Losses Axis/Soviet (killed&captured)
Men 1343k/9768k
AFV 7818/51951
Aircraft 11535/45238

It's turn 107 (4th July 1943) and initiative has switched to Soviets. I've reached 807VP few turns ago but passed initiative switch without sudden victory event (was under impression that on1st July it will be checked)?
Not sure if I should just keep playing to the end of 1944, since it certainly looks like I can achieve conditions for Axis win then?
Also, not sure that this hard coded initiative switch makes sense in my game, since Soviet army is down to 3,5M (versus 4,1M Germans + 746k allies) and I'm very much in offensive (have around 300k soviets surrounded and about to be destroyed). Hardly situation that Soviets are taking initiative [;)]

Anyhow, being old time War in Russia player (didn't play WitE previously), my general feeling is that this is GREAT game with VERY challenging AI. Few more tweaks and it will be perfect.
Will wait for new version with changed Assault HQs before trying hunman opponent...that's where real fun start [:D]

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: miljkovics

...
It's turn 107 (4th July 1943) and initiative has switched to Soviets. I've reached 807VP few turns ago but passed initiative switch without sudden victory event (was under impression that on1st July it will be checked)?
Not sure if I should just keep playing to the end of 1944, since it certainly looks like I can achieve conditions for Axis win then?
....

known bug and will be sorted when it can be. Basically the routine checks for initiative before it checks VP against win conditions. This is probably the only turn where that causes a problem as in every other instance they are the same thing.

yes, you've won vs the 1944 test. See the vs AI AAR I'm doing to see the calculations off a game where the initiative change makes sense

[miljkovics]

ORIGINAL: loki100


known bug and will be sorted when it can be. Basically the routine checks for initiative before it checks VP against win conditions. This is probably the only turn where that causes a problem as in every other instance they are the same thing.

yes, you've won vs the 1944 test. See the vs AI AAR I'm doing to see the calculations off a game where the initiative change makes sense

Ah, OK...then it's celebration time with some Erika (Marsch und Soldatenlied) in background [:D]

Yup, reading your AAR and that initiative switch is actually reflecting what is happening on map.
So, maybe that 1st July 1943 hardcoded switch may not be really hard coded after all [;)]

[Yogol]

First game: Playing Axis. Gave up at turn 8 when USSR transported units all over the place.

Second game: Playing Axis. Gave up at turn 11 when USSR transported 100.000s of troops out of a pocket through one single port, despite air bombings.

Third game: Playing Axis. Gave up at turn 22 when USSR counterattacked after transporting 500.000 out of nowhere to the map, transporting them wherever they wanted.

[HansBolter]

Have no results to post because the game remains unplayable.

Listening to a lot of crickets lately waiting for a release of a patch to make the game playable.

Is a patch to make the top bar scalable actually going to be released, or are you just stalling until your customers give up on it?