Naval upgrades are too expensive

[sveint]

I'm considering turning off all naval research for all nations from now on. It is simply not worth it to upgrade naval units. The only exceptions may be u-boats (for Germany only), and of course Convoy Escorts which do not cost anything to upgrade.

When the UK goes from 39 to 40 carrier tech, they will have to spend the equivalent of an armoured corps to upgrade. To get +1 naval!

I'd suggest a 50% rebate on non-sub naval upgrades, but there may be better ideas.

[CHINCHIN]

Upgrading and repairing surface fleets is very expensive. I never research any naval technology, except those you have mentioned, submarines and escorts.

I think it would be good to make surface fleets cheaper and to lower the ground support of these units.

[stjeand]

I have never spent a point on naval upgrades...they are complete waste since Germany has no real navy.

As posted just Uboats and Escorts.


Navy for me is very broken...when some naval units can change your attack from 3/1 to 7/1...
Naval bombardment is far to strong. And it is for every attack, not just how many op points.

[CHINCHIN]

ORIGINAL: stjeand
Navy for me is very broken...when some naval units can change your attack from 3/1 to 7/1...
Naval bombardment is far to strong. And it is for every attack, not just how many op points.

Totally agree.

I think that the naval units should support invasions and nothing else, not just any attack on the coast. And only in the first combat round of an invasion.

[AlvaroSousa]

Upgrading a BB costs 60pp per level.
A Patrol group is 30pp per level.

These are small fleets of 2 capital ships + escorts.

Yes decisions do need to be made. by 1944 was every single BB in the Royal Naval up to 1945 specs? Did they replace all their old DDs with 1945 DDs in every fleet?

[Nirosi]

Yes decisions do need to be made.

I agree with that, it is a lot of ships in a counter so it should not be too cheap. However, the problem is that we have little control over it. It does sometime upgrade despite us.

For example, if we want to just repair a CV but also keep 200 PPs overall available for repairs because we need to upgrade/repair the land army, that CV might actually... upgrade on top of repairing because we can not chose do no one and not the other. I am not sure if the actual code would be flexible enough for such a choice, but that would be nice for exactly that reason you mention : making choices.

[ncc1701e]

If you want to upgrade certain types of ship, you need to split your naval stack since this is impossible to stop upgrade on one ship in the same naval stack than other ships.
Maybe an UI enhancement for WP2.

[ncc1701e]

Upgrading Regia Marina to 1941 level is a good thing.

[CHINCHIN]

It would also be nice if a unit will only upgrade if it is at 100% strength. First replacements, and the next turn if it is still 100%, it can be upgraded.

Because many times you are interested in a unit receiving replacements but not updating, if the mechanics were as I mentioned, it could be controlled.

[eskuche]

Easiest solution (and this has been discussed on WPP as well, as one could imagine) is having separate reinforce/upgrade toggles.

I made the point that some of the time it’s much better to have another naval unit at ‘39 advancement instead of fewer at higher advancement, given how targeting and blockades work.

[AlvaroSousa]

I am still considering it.
#1 if the code allows as is or will it be a rework.
#2 what nation would say "lets replace that broken 5 pounder with this one from 1938 we previously had that's rusting."....."but sir there is a 1941 better 6 pounder here that will fit!"....."naw we need to save PPs put the old one in"

[CHINCHIN]

In the USSR for example, it is not worth spending much on units of 20 experience, but for the country's experience to rise, these units have to combat, so it is important that their STR is at 100%, but spend on a mechanized army of 20 experience, 30PP per tech level doesn't seem like the best.

The best solution would be separate reinforce / upgrade toggles, as Eskuche says, but it would be more complicated.

[sveint]

As a counter-point it should perhaps not be possible to build "old tech" naval units.

So if you have 41 tech, you cannot build a 39 tech unit.