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RE: WPO Wishlist

 
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RE: WPO Wishlist - 9/15/2006 5:47:28 PM   
btaft

 

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Thanks for letting me know one way or the other Terminus.

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 61
RE: WPO Wishlist 1920s Kriegsmarine - 9/15/2006 8:23:10 PM   
engineer

 

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Joined: 9/8/2006
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It was tiny:
BB Schlesien (pre-dreadnought)
BB Schleswig-Holstein (pre-dreadnought)
CL Emden (commissioned 10/15/25)
CL Konigsberg (commissioned 4/17/29)
CL Karlsruhe (commissioned 6/11/29)
CL Koln (commissioned 1/15/30)
TB Moewe (commissioned 10/1/26)
TB Seeadler (commissioned 5/1/27)
TB Albatros (commissioned 5/5/27)
TB Greif (commissioned 3/15/27)
TB Kondor (commissioned 7/15/27)
TB Falke (commissioned 8/15/27)
TB Wolf (commissioned 11/15/28)
TB Iltis (commissioned 10/1/28)
TB Luchs (commissioned 4/15/29)
TB Tiger (commissioned 1/15/29)
TB Jaguar (commissioned 6/1/29)
TB Leopard (commissioned 6/1/28)

Given that Germany was still the Weimar Republic, it's more plausible that they would join the Allies and hope to regain a portion of the Mandates from Japan to partially reverse the verdict of Versailles.

The Emden was recognized as a training cruiser.  The Konigsberg and her sisters were handy modern light cruisers. The TB's were small destroyers.



  

< Message edited by engineer -- 9/15/2006 8:32:04 PM >

(in reply to btaft)
Post #: 62
RE: WPO Wishlist Fortress Guam Scenarios - 9/15/2006 8:52:45 PM   
engineer

 

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In 1919, the CNO submitted a proposal for development of Guam as a full scale fleet base.  This would change War Plan Orange into a two step advance to the Philippines:  Pearl, Guam, then Manila and subsequent operations to defeat Japan from the Philippines.  It was tabled in the aftermath of the Washington Disarmament Treaties and included obligations to suspend defenses in the Western Pacific.  But with no treaty . . .

Late Scenario Fortress Guam Order of Battle
 
New Device (#423):
          16in CD Mortar M1920 – Naval Gun
            Range:              16
            Accuracy:         10
            Effect:               1346
            Ceiling:                0
            Armor:             500
            Penetration:      800
            Dud Rate:         0
            Anti-Armor:      150
            Anti-Soft:         105
            Load Cost:       9999
            Available:         2205
            Upgrade:          None
            Build Rate:        1
            Pool:                2
 
Naval Forces in Apra Harbor at Scenario Start:
            1 AS (relocate from West Coast)
            10 SS (relocate from Pearl Harbor and San Diego)
            5 AK (take from reinforcement queue)
            1 TK (take from reinforcement queue)
 
Modify the  USA Starting OOB as follows:
            Put all but one AE into the reinforcement queue (1928 arrival)
            Put all but one AD into the reinforcement queue (1928 arrival)
            Put one half of the AO in the reinforcement queue (spread deliveries every three months until accounted for)
            Put all but one AR into the reinforcement queue (1928 arrival)
 
Modify USA Reinforcement Queue as follows:

Delete one US Army Brigade from 1927
Delete one USMC base force from 1927
Delete one Coast Defense Regiment from 1928
Delete one AA Regiment from 1928

 
Fort Dewey – US Army/Coastal Defense Unit
            Experience       55
            Morale             55
            HQ:                  Ninth Corps Hawaii
            Near                Guam
            Supply              150
            Wpn1               2 x 422 – 16in CD Gun M1919
            Wpn 2              6 x 423 – 16in CD Mortar M1920
            Wpn 3              4 x 462 – 6in CD Gun M1908
            Wpn 4              4 x 496 – 3in CD  Gun M1902
            Wpn 5              4 x 413 – 3in AA Gun M1918
            Wpn 6              25 x 252 – Support Squad
 
Fort Sampson – US Army/Coastal Defense Unit
            Experience       55
            Morale             55
            HQ:                  Ninth Corps Hawaii
            Near                Guam
            Supply              150
            Wpn1               2 x 422 – 16in CD Gun M1919
            Wpn 2              6 x 423 – 16in CD Mortar M1920
            Wpn 3              2 x 462 – 6in CD Gun M1908
            Wpn 4              4 x 496 – 3in CD  Gun M1902
            Wpn 5              6 x 413 – 3in AA Gun M1918
            Wpn 6              22 x 252 – Support Squad
 
252nd US Coastal AA Regiment – US Army/AA Unit
            Experience       65
            Morale             65
            HQ:                  Ninth Corps Hawaii
            Near                Guam
            Supply              54
            Wpn 1              12 x 413 – 3in AA Gun M1918
            Wpn 2              8 x 407 – 0.30 AAMG M1917
            Wpn 3              25 x 252 – Support Squad
 
197th Independent Infantry Brigade – US Army/Infantry Unit (Brigade)*
            Experience       65
            Morale             70
            HQ:                  Ninth Corps Hawaii
            Near                Guam
            Supply              0
            Wpn 1              252 x 315 – US Rifle Squad
Wpn 2              6 x 321 – US Engineer Squad
Wpn 3              48 x 316 – US MG Section
Wpn 4              5 x 478 – Light Tank M1917
Wpn 5              60 x 433 – 3in Mortar Mark 1
Wpn 6              12 x 474 – 75mm Gun M1897
Wpn 7              24 x 251 – Combat Engineers
Wpn 8              400 x 252 – Support Squad
* Infantry, Mortar and MG elements increased to reflect an extra heavy weapons company per battalion.
 
Guam USMC Defense Battalion – US Marine/Coast Defense Unit
            Experience       85
            Morale             85
            HQ:                  Ninth Corps Hawaii
            Near                Guam
            Supply              0
            Wpn 1              18 x 407 – 0.30 AAMG M1917
Wpn 2              12 x 325 – US Marine Squad
Wpn 3              4 x 316 – US MG Section
Wpn 4              2 x 478 – Light Tank M1917
Wpn 5              100 x 252 – Support Squad
Wpn 6              2 x 143 – Sound Detector (A)
Wpn 7              8 x 459 - 5in/51 Mk 7 CD Gun
Wpn 8              16 x 413 - 3in AA Gun M1918
 
Guam Aviation Depot – US Marine/Engineer Unit
            Experience       45
            Morale             55
            HQ:                  Ninth Corps Hawaii
            Near                Guam
            Supply              0
            Wpn 1              20 x 254 – Aviation Support
Wpn 2              50 x 252 – Support Squad
Wpn 3              1 x 143 – Sound Detector (A)
Wpn 4              12 x 325 – US Marine Rifle Squad
Wpn 5              2 x 143 – Sound Detector (A)
 
Guam Base (US Navy):
HQ:  Ninth Corps Hawaii
Port:                 3
Airfield:            4
Supply:             190000
Fuel:                 70000
Port Build:        4
AF Build:          4
Forts:               4
Japanese Victory Points:  20
Allied Victory Points:    40
Wpn 1:             524 – Repair Shipyard – 30
 

 
Early Scenario Changes:
            Delete Fort Dewey
            Delete Fort Sampson
            Delete 197th Infantry Brigade (Replace standard game brigade in the reinforcement queue)
            Add US Army CD Regiment with 6in guns (Strike that regiment from the reinforcement queue)
            Reduce Guam Aviation Depot strength by 40%
            Reduce Port from 3 to 2
            Reduce Supply from 190000 to 50000
            Reduce Fuel from 70000 to 20000
            Reduce Port Build from 4 to 2
            Reduce AF Build from 4 to 2
            Reduce Forts from 4 to 2
            Eliminate Repair Shipyard
            Reduce Japanese Victory Points from 20 to 10
            Reduce US Victor Points from 40 to 20        
            Keep similar US fleet train reductions
 
Japan:  I haven't researched this side, but the fortification of Guam wouldn't go unnoticed.  Improved fortifications at Truk would be certain.  Some development at Eniwetok would also be likely.
 
This would be two additional scenarios (1922 and 1926).  The US OOB would drive them toward supporting/relieving Guam since the lack of mobile fleet train tenders would make them more dependent on fixed, developed bases.     

(in reply to engineer)
Post #: 63
RE: WPO Wishlist Map OOB/Map Tweaks - 9/15/2006 9:06:41 PM   
engineer

 

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The historical WPO variants included a start of military operations prior to when the US Army would be mobilized to participate.  This is well simulated in the game with the high political point cost to take US ground units out of the continental USA.  The Navy solution to the mobilization plan was to turn the Marine Corps.  The subsequent inter-service dispute resolved that the Marines would NOT turn into a second army, but they would be used for the initial operations until the Army was ready to move forward.  In game terms, this means the US Marine LCU's in San Diego should be switched to Ninth Corps Hawaii at the outset of each scenario so ground forces would be available to depart from Hawaii by the H+25 to H+60 window without stripping Hawaii of its garrison. 

Zamboanga:  The late 1920's versions of WPO curtailed the Deathride from Pearl to Manila to establishing an advanced base in the Southern Philippines and writing off Luzon.  The selected anchorage for the fleet was near Zamboanga, a deep water anchorage capable of holding 400 ships plus a large sea plane base.  That's not a Port 1 piece of geography.  I would recommend upgrading it to a Port 4, Airfield 3 (no change in the scenario built facilities at start) and boost the VP for the USA to 20 or 30 (similar increase for the Japanese).  I think the geography change is universal (obviously), but the VP change is only appropriate for late scenarios where the deep water southern port was a clear objective. 

Stand-up Fight:  This is another scenario level idea.  Essentially, this amounts to leaving Britain & the commonwealth, France, and the Netherlands neutral.  It would be USA+China against Japan.  The coding difficulty would be to provide some way that Japan could elect to attack the neutrals and provoke them into war or some sort of diplomacy where the other powers might join the war after a period of time. 

(in reply to engineer)
Post #: 64
RE: WPO Wishlist Map OOB/Map Tweaks - 9/16/2006 8:23:33 AM   
Count dTen


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While shopping recently in an altenate universe (careful buying in one and selling in another and you can usually pay for the trip -- currency exchanges, however, are often difficult -- never, for example, flash a roll of King Louis XXV's in a Republican France reality) , I met émigrés  members of the d'Ten family serving as senior officers on the Gasconge as well as the Verite and the Victor Hugo. I'm sure if I kept phone boothing, I'd eventually find one who was a Captain as well as a gentleman. (I should explain, that there are really two branches of the family: serious, risk-adverse planners, and rather florid gentlemen inclined to bite off more than they could ever chew -- Falstaff was a d'Ten on his mother's side). I was wondering if you would consider one for a captaincy in the Imaginary French Reaction Fleet so often called to the Pacific station during the Pretender Wars?

Your obedient servant,
d'Ten

(in reply to engineer)
Post #: 65
RE: WPO Wishlist - Astoria Port - 9/22/2006 3:50:32 AM   
engineer

 

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Ran across a factoid that Astoria and Portland serviced 2,000,000 tons of commercial shipping in 1922. http://www.ohs.org/education/oregonhistory/historical_records/dspDocument.cfm?doc_ID=00059BB6-B5D2-1E35-925B80B05272006C  Also, the old Pre-dreadnought Oregon served as a floating museum in Portland after it was decommissioned per the Washington Treaties until WW2. While it's probably too much trouble to play map games to turn the lower Columbia River into an estuary (and risk some crazy exploits) so Portland can be an actual port, it does seem reasonable to put a port at Astoria so there is a reason for all those forts there. 

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 66
RE: WPO Wishlist - Modern Heavy Cruisers - 9/25/2006 7:52:03 PM   
engineer

 

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During the late 1920's there was a binge of cruiser construction.  The USA laid down the Pensacola in 1926, the Japanese laid down two groups of "first class" cruisers.  The British laid down their Kent and Devonshire class heavy cruisers.  That's historical. 

The actual commissioning dates for the US cruisers are:
USS Salt Lake City:  December 11, 1929
USS Pensacola:  February 6, 1930
USS Houston: June 17, 1930
USS Chester: June 24, 1930
USS Northhampton:  September 5, 1930

It seems appropriate then that these ships should show up in the late-scenario reinforcement queue as a floor.  45 to 60 days for shakedown and travel to theater from their construction yards for the Anglo vessels is appropriate. 

Applying the "Hosho" rule (where multiple incarnations of historical vessels are included in the OOB) it is also plausible that additional cruisers of the historical designs would be included.  In a hot war with a maritime nation, Parliament and Congress would certainly vote for additional appropriations and expanded naval construction.  So instead of two Pensacola's, for example, there might be four, with follow on units in later years.  Absent a real build module for the Japanese player to schedule production, I would tend to keep the Japanese construction to the historical ships since the possibilities for world trade are pretty much restricted to trade through the Soviet Union in a war with the USA, Commonwealth, France,and the Netherlands blocking trade through the Pacific.

Construction duration is another topic.  The USS Louisville holds the US heavy cruiser construction record (laid down on 7/4/1929 and commissioned 560 days later on 1/15/1931.  The interwar US cruisers typically took 900 to 1000 days to complete and the Pensacola herself took almost 1200 days.  During the period leading up to World War 2 and including WW2, the much larger Baltimore class heavy cruisers typically took about 700+ days from laying the keel to commissioning.  A two year construction period for the US cruiser is plausible and a little longer for the UK cruisers. 

Fantasy Designs versus the Washington Treaty:  The US and UK cruisers were designed to be compliant with the Washington Naval Treaties and suffered in performance as a consequence.  It is likely that in a WPO universe where the Treaties never went into effect, the ships would have been somewhat bigger with better protection.  It would be plausible that the US and UK cruisers would have been redesigned to displace 12,000 to 15,000 tons.   

(in reply to engineer)
Post #: 67
RE: WPO Wishlist - Drydock - 9/29/2006 10:07:42 PM   
engineer

 

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In WW2 the USA built dozens and dozens of various sized dry docks that were towed to advanced operaing bases and used for the repair and maintenance of ships.  The historical Navy planning for a potential conflict with Japan recognized this no later than the early 1920s.  In both scenario timeframes for WPO, the wartime construction of dry docks (or advanced base sectional docks as they came to be known in WW2) was planned. 


Photo from US Naval Historical Center

But for the radar and the extra AA armament this scene might have come from 1924 in a WPO universe instead of 1944. 

Historically, drydocks came in three sizes:  destroyer, cruiser, and battleship.  The destroyer drydocks were available in mid-1942, the cruiser drydocks in late 1942 and the battleship drydocks in early 1943. 

If I had a blank sheet of paper, ABSD units would have a speed a 5 (representing ocean going tugs for motive power), and would act as repair yards when docked at a base with a port value of at least 3. They would have some fuel requirement to simulate the oil consumed by the tug to take them from point A to point b. Small ABSD's would have a repair yard value of 2, medium ABSD's would have a repair yard value of 4, and large ABSD's would have a repair yard value of 6.  Small ABSD's would begin appearing at H+180, medium ABSD's would appear at H+300, and large ABSD's would appear at H+420.  The total repair yard value would be something on the order of 120, spread out from H+180 to H+1000. 

If opening up the engine to code this in would be impractical, then the alternative would be to create a new class of AR for the USN.  This AR would abstract the dry docks so they would have a speed of 5 and no armament and a small fuel requirement to simulate the fuel required by the tug to get them from Point A to Point B.  They would be labeled ABSD-1 through about ABSD-100 and trickle in over the H+180 to H+1000 time window.   



(in reply to engineer)
Post #: 68
RE: WPO Wishlist - 12/3/2006 8:15:19 PM   
S Lee T

 

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1) create a daily "new arrival" list...in case you walk away while the turn is running

2) create a surface combat log...so you can review the war's naval action

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 69
RE: WPO Wishlist -- Realistic Troop Concentrations - 1/11/2007 12:27:36 PM   
S Lee T

 

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Is it possible to establish a limit on troop concentrations for each hex? One possible way to achieve this would be to increase the supply usage for any troops above the limit; say 5 to 10 times the normal supply usage. This suggestion would allow short term increased troop strengths to take an objective.

I'm playing the 1922-1926 scenario against the AI. It is January 1926. The AI IJN have amassed 14 divisions and 16 brigades in Manila; an assault value of almost 9000 ! I don't have enough political points to activate the troops needed to achieve a 2 to 1 superiority to take this key objective. The IJN has lost much of their merchant marine in this effort, but have secured the VP's needed for victory.

I obviously love this game to have played almost 1300 turns!






























































































(in reply to S Lee T)
Post #: 70
RE: WPO Wishlist -- Realistic Troop Concentrations - 6/9/2007 9:55:41 PM   
Anthropoid


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Anyone know if the WPO database (particularly leaders stats) has been exported and is available to DL as a CSV or Xls file as Oznoyng mentions in this thread over in WiTP?


http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=682773&mpage=1&key

< Message edited by Anthropoid -- 6/9/2007 9:56:03 PM >

(in reply to S Lee T)
Post #: 71
RE: WPO Wishlist -- Realistic Troop Concentrations - 6/10/2007 12:33:19 AM   
Helpless


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

Anyone know if the WPO database (particularly leaders stats) has been exported and is available to DL as a CSV or Xls file as Oznoyng mentions in this thread over in WiTP?


http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=682773&mpage=1&key


You can export them with witpload http://mathubert.free.fr/witp_files/witpload.zip



_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW Development

(in reply to Anthropoid)
Post #: 72
RE: WPO Wishlist -- Realistic Troop Concentrations - 6/11/2007 8:49:54 PM   
Anthropoid


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless
You can export them with witpload http://mathubert.free.fr/witp_files/witpload.zip


Awesome! Thanks Helpless :)

This game is too addictive

BTW, what sort of primate is that you use as your avatar. I cannot quite place him

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 73
RE: WPO Wishlist -- Realistic Troop Concentrations - 6/11/2007 10:19:47 PM   
Anthropoid


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ADDIT: Whoo hoo! Never mind: I figured it out on my own

I just moved the witpload.exe into the WPO/SCEN directory and the command worked! I got my CSV files "dumped." . . . Good lord help . . . the Matrix has me, and I'm starting to sound like a progammer
-=-=-=-=-=-=

Amazingly, I actually figured out how to open the command prompt by myself, and to navigate to the directory where I DLed the witpload.exe!

I even seem to be running the witpload.exe (sort of): I'm giving it the following:

C:\Matrix Games\witpload>witpload/e/s6/dC:\Matrix Games\War Plan Orange\SCEN
       AND GETTING BACK THE FOLLOWING
WITP data export/import utility - Version 1.10
Error in options

I don't have WiTP installed at all, so it will not be able to export anything from the 'default' settings, and based on Michael's readme the /d option is used to get the files from a different directory.

Not being too experienced with the command prompt I'm stumped. Any suggestions?

< Message edited by Anthropoid -- 6/11/2007 10:32:09 PM >

(in reply to Anthropoid)
Post #: 74
RE: WPO Wishlist - 9/26/2007 4:21:57 AM   
mac5732

 

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A new patch to fix some of the buggy problems......Matrix has not released many patches for this game thats for sure... Imho Matrix doesn't seem to support this game all that much which is unfair to those who bought the game.. oh well...

_____________________________

Beware: Crochety Old Geezers Play WIP and SEIV in between bathroom Runs :)

(in reply to Tankerace)
Post #: 75
RE: WPO Wishlist - 5/3/2008 9:43:55 AM   
marioa

 

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What benefit and improvement's can whe expect for this great game "WPO" after the release of AE/WITP? Or is this game dead?
Thanks
Regards
mari0a



< Message edited by marioa -- 5/3/2008 11:00:19 PM >

(in reply to mac5732)
Post #: 76
RE: WPO Wishlist - 11/24/2009 11:07:24 AM   
hellfirejet


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace


quote:

ORIGINAL: William Amos

Umm Just out of curiousity. Any way to add German or Italy's navy to the mix as early axis allies ?

Sort of toying with the idea that Japan resells the Marianas to the Germans and the Germans base a fleet out of there as allies of the Japanese.

Or of Course could include a replay of the Russo Japanese war with a soviet fleet appearing in the mix.

Just a thought.



The ships could be added in (if you'll notice, there is a full German naval weapon OOB already in), but as yet the nation would have to be set to Japan, or maybe that N3 thing. I've asked Mike to add them (back in beta), and all I was told was that it would be "very hard."

That said, we could certainly add the ships in, and in the commanders file add in German and Italian names. The nationality would be wrong, but everything else would appear as it should. That said, thanks to the limit of naval devices, as it stands now there can be a French, British, American, Japanese, and Russian navy in at the same time. The Germans can be added in, but to make room for some French devices, I have had (in the working 1.2x patch on my hard drive) to combine some German devices, such as the 10.5cm SK, 10.5cm Ubts, and 10.5cm Tbts guns into a single 10.5cm Kanone. But it is still possible (and on the list. War Plan Black could be very fun! Especially with what if ships such as the Mackensens).


Hi Tankerace,
I know this is an old post but still someone might read this,I think the game is fab and talking about the Germans in here as a wish list I have taken the liberty of creating Germanys High Seas Fleet art, the vast majority off her ships have been completed at time of writing this,from her Dreadnoughts down to all the Light cruisers,I'm adding more every week,plus I have also done all Italian Dreadnoughts,with there other ship types being added very soon,so both the Germans & Italians can be in the game fantastic or what yabbydabbydoo

If interested in getting the above ship art they are available for download from links inside my posts regarding Britains Grand Fleet v Germanys High Seas Fleet,please take the time to find out thanks,I want to keep this game active and alive and kicking for as long as possible it rocks !!!!!!!!

< Message edited by hellfirejet -- 11/24/2009 11:18:23 AM >


_____________________________

Regards,
Graham.

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction! Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller

(in reply to Tankerace)
Post #: 77
RE: WPO Wishlist - 11/24/2009 3:59:55 PM   
tex


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Amen to that, Graham! And if Tankerace ever reads this, I would like the answer to the question above yours.

(in reply to hellfirejet)
Post #: 78
RE: WPO Wishlist - 12/16/2009 9:52:27 AM   
hellfirejet


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FDRLincoln if you ever read this then all your wishes have been granted.I have done art work for Britannic,TiTanic & Olympic class ships,and I'm doing an ADMIRALS EDITION type update,so I'm like you I prefer all sizes to be in inches keeps it nice and simple as for Jellicoe he has now 99 as a rating

_____________________________

Regards,
Graham.

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction! Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller

(in reply to FDRLincoln)
Post #: 79
RE: WPO Wishlist - 1/3/2010 11:41:38 AM   
Coulsdon Eagle

 

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If you want to use the Imperial German Navy's ships, then why not have perfidious Albion seize the lot at Scapa Flow before they were scuttled historically in 1919? Based on Avalanche Press's "Reichsmarine" the Royal Navy ends up with new squadrons of Konig-class battleships and those wonderfully indestructible Krupp-built battlecruisers. Due to manning problems, the RN mothballs some of their older vessels (the "I" class battlecruisers & the early Dreadnoughts).

Alternatively, have the Allies spilt the fleet amongst themselves? Britain shares the lot with the USA, France & Japan as per a revised Treaty of Versailles. Seydlitz could fight Hindenburg! Perhaps Australia & New Zealand end up with a Von der Tann, or an unwanted Superb- or Neptune-class dreadnought?

Other suggestions for the RN: -
Allow Britain to complete Hood's three planned sisters (Anson, Howe & Rodney).
The G3 battlecruiser designs are included in later scenarios. What about the similar N3 battleship designs which influenced the later Rodney / Nelson designs - the Nelson itself was completed in 1927.
Fisher's planned ridiculous super-battlecruiser Incomparable - 6 x 20" main guns but usual thin armour

(in reply to hellfirejet)
Post #: 80
RE: WPO Wishlist - 1/3/2010 11:52:10 AM   
hellfirejet


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From: Scotland
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My plan is to have Japan,Germany & Italy ie the 2nd world war Axis powers,combine thier strenghts and fight a world war 1 in the Pacific scenario,I have nearly the entire German High Seas Fleet based at TRUK!!!!

_____________________________

Regards,
Graham.

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction! Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller

(in reply to Coulsdon Eagle)
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