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RE: AI for MWiF - France

 
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RE: AI for MWiF - France - 12/18/2012 5:43:22 PM   
Beryl


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From: France
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NOPE. You can't stay at sea anyway at the end of a turn when transporting units, and the setup rule restrict it the a naval move out to sea (i.e only) with your naval units (i.e only).
This is not a serious pb as you can setup the french TRS with the INF (or TERR I suppose) you want to move and you will have plenty of time to do it in first S/O 39 turn, and without many riskq on 1st allied impulse.


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Post #: 301
RE: AI for MWiF - France - 12/18/2012 6:48:42 PM   
Centuur


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From: Hoorn (NED).
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

quote:

ORIGINAL: RAW7scenario.pdf

After you have finished setting-up, you can make naval moves out to sea with your naval units. Treat this as a naval action you conducted last turn, so the units must finish their move, then drop to a lower sea-box section as if they had stayed at sea last turn (see 13.4 Return to base). Neutral major powers can only make these moves with convoy (22.4.19 Convoys in Flames (CoiF option 76): and tanker) points.



After having set up your units can the French TRS (if they have the movement points and range) in 24.4.7 The Global war: Sep/Oct 1939 ~ Jul/Aug 1945: load an INF unit, move 2 sea zones, and enter a port. Or do they have to stay at sea?



Yes, you can do this during a naval movement phase. During setup before SO1939, France is neutral, so the TRS has to be setup in a French controlled part and cannot be moved to a sea area.

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Peter

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Post #: 302
RE: AI for MWiF - France - 12/18/2012 6:50:28 PM   
Extraneous

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Beryl

NOPE. You can't stay at sea anyway at the end of a turn when transporting units, and the setup rule restrict it the a naval move out to sea (i.e only) with your naval units (i.e only).
This is not a serious pb as you can setup the french TRS with the INF (or TERR I suppose) you want to move and you will have plenty of time to do it in first S/O 39 turn, and without many riskq on 1st allied impulse.



quote:

ORIGINAL: RAW7scenario.pdf

After you have finished setting-up, you can make naval moves out to sea with your naval units. Treat this as a naval action you conducted last turn, so the units must finish their move, then drop to a lower sea-box section as if they had stayed at sea last turn (see 13.4 Return to base). Neutral major powers can only make these moves with convoy (22.4.19 Convoys in Flames (CoiF option 76): and tanker) points.



I see what you mean.

TRS with cargo cannot remain at sea but if the TRS was empty it could.

It would have made things easier if it were just treated as a pre-turn naval move.




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Post #: 303
RE: AI for MWiF - France - 12/18/2012 7:35:11 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 17926
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous


quote:

ORIGINAL: Beryl

NOPE. You can't stay at sea anyway at the end of a turn when transporting units, and the setup rule restrict it the a naval move out to sea (i.e only) with your naval units (i.e only).
This is not a serious pb as you can setup the french TRS with the INF (or TERR I suppose) you want to move and you will have plenty of time to do it in first S/O 39 turn, and without many riskq on 1st allied impulse.



quote:

ORIGINAL: RAW7scenario.pdf

After you have finished setting-up, you can make naval moves out to sea with your naval units. Treat this as a naval action you conducted last turn, so the units must finish their move, then drop to a lower sea-box section as if they had stayed at sea last turn (see 13.4 Return to base). Neutral major powers can only make these moves with convoy (22.4.19 Convoys in Flames (CoiF option 76): and tanker) points.



I see what you mean.

TRS with cargo cannot remain at sea but if the TRS was empty it could.

It would have made things easier if it were just treated as a pre-turn naval move.




One plan is to get as many units back to Metropolitan France as possible early in the first turn. This would mean stripping the units from Syria and North Africa, leaving those countries vulnerable to Italian attacks/conquests, but keeping Paris in French hands an extra turn (or two) may be considered a reasonable exchange.

To get 2 land units back to Metropolitan France, the TRS starts in Syria with a land unit and takes it back to Nice in the second impulse. Then an HQ reorganizes the TRS so it can make a run into the Western Med to load a land unit from a coastal hex and unload it into France during that phase (all in the 4th impulse). The first land unit arrives organized so it can move to hold the line against the Italians.

There's not a lot the Axis can do against this, especially if the TRS is accompanied by a fleet of French naval combat units when it moves in the 4th impulse.

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Post #: 304
RE: AI for MWiF - France - 12/18/2012 7:36:41 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous


quote:

ORIGINAL: Beryl

NOPE. You can't stay at sea anyway at the end of a turn when transporting units, and the setup rule restrict it the a naval move out to sea (i.e only) with your naval units (i.e only).
This is not a serious pb as you can setup the french TRS with the INF (or TERR I suppose) you want to move and you will have plenty of time to do it in first S/O 39 turn, and without many riskq on 1st allied impulse.



quote:

ORIGINAL: RAW7scenario.pdf

After you have finished setting-up, you can make naval moves out to sea with your naval units. Treat this as a naval action you conducted last turn, so the units must finish their move, then drop to a lower sea-box section as if they had stayed at sea last turn (see 13.4 Return to base). Neutral major powers can only make these moves with convoy (22.4.19 Convoys in Flames (CoiF option 76): and tanker) points.



I see what you mean.

TRS with cargo cannot remain at sea but if the TRS was empty it could.

It would have made things easier if it were just treated as a pre-turn naval move.




One plan is to get as many units back to Metropolitan France as possible early in the first turn. This would mean stripping the units from Syria and North Africa, leaving those countries vulnerable to Italian attacks/conquests, but keeping Paris in French hands an extra turn (or two) may be considered a reasonable exchange.

To get 2 land units back to Metropolitan France, the TRS starts in Syria with a land unit and takes it back to Nice in the second impulse. Then an HQ reorganizes the TRS so it can make a run into the Western Med to load a land unit from a coastal hex and unload it into France during that phase (all in the 4th impulse). The first land unit arrives organized so it can move to hold the line against the Italians.

There's not a lot the Axis can do against this, especially if the TRS is accompanied by a fleet of French naval combat units when it moves in the 4th impulse.

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Steve

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(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 305
RE: AI for MWiF - France - 12/18/2012 7:37:27 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 17926
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous


quote:

ORIGINAL: Beryl

NOPE. You can't stay at sea anyway at the end of a turn when transporting units, and the setup rule restrict it the a naval move out to sea (i.e only) with your naval units (i.e only).
This is not a serious pb as you can setup the french TRS with the INF (or TERR I suppose) you want to move and you will have plenty of time to do it in first S/O 39 turn, and without many riskq on 1st allied impulse.



quote:

ORIGINAL: RAW7scenario.pdf

After you have finished setting-up, you can make naval moves out to sea with your naval units. Treat this as a naval action you conducted last turn, so the units must finish their move, then drop to a lower sea-box section as if they had stayed at sea last turn (see 13.4 Return to base). Neutral major powers can only make these moves with convoy (22.4.19 Convoys in Flames (CoiF option 76): and tanker) points.



I see what you mean.

TRS with cargo cannot remain at sea but if the TRS was empty it could.

It would have made things easier if it were just treated as a pre-turn naval move.




One plan is to get as many units back to Metropolitan France as possible early in the first turn. This would mean stripping the units from Syria and North Africa, leaving those countries vulnerable to Italian attacks/conquests, but keeping Paris in French hands an extra turn (or two) may be considered a reasonable exchange.

To get 2 land units back to Metropolitan France, the TRS starts in Syria with a land unit and takes it back to Nice in the second impulse. Then an HQ reorganizes the TRS so it can make a run into the Western Med to load a land unit from a coastal hex and unload it into France during that phase (all in the 4th impulse). The first land unit arrives organized so it can move to hold the line against the Italians.

There's not a lot the Axis can do against this, especially if the TRS is accompanied by a fleet of French naval combat units when it moves in the 4th impulse.

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Steve

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Post #: 306
RE: AI for MWiF - France - 12/19/2012 1:17:43 AM   
Extraneous

 

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First I'm going to think strategically: France cannot survive the German blitz unless they are very lucky. So I'm going to plan for France to fall.

Set up
1) Convoy line (3CP) Dakar, Senegal (French West Africa admin group) > 1 CP Cape Verde Basin > 1 CP Cape St. Vincent > 1 CP Western Mediterranean Sea > Marseilles, France
2) Convoy line (1CP) Oran, Algeria (Algeria admin group) > 1 CP Western Mediterranean Sea > Marseilles, France
3) Convoy reserve: 3 CP in French Equatorial Africa admin group (80% chance Free France retains 3 CP).
4) Convoy reserve: 3 CP in New Caledonia (All Pacific map minors & territories admin group) (90% chance Free France retains 3 CP).

This allows France 4BP per turn until Vichy is established.

5) Save Iraq oil in Damascus, Syria.

First Impulse
1) Load the French TRS with and transport any INF Corps in Syria to Malta (with CW permission).
2) Reorganize the French TRS if necessary.

Second Impulse
1) US Entry Action 22. CW and France both declare war on Italy (1 chit and 20% chance of another).
2) The CW CV's can port strike the Italian fleet. The French Fleet can support a French invasion of any port the Italians are in.

After Vichy, France is established
1) The CW DoW's Vichy. France. Syria is to be captured by the CW for the saved oil. Iraq oil now goes to the CW. The CW can liberate Syria and give it to Free France.




< Message edited by Extraneous -- 12/19/2012 1:19:03 AM >


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Post #: 307
RE: AI for MWiF - France - 12/19/2012 9:49:10 PM   
paulderynck


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You don't need a CP in the Med for that first convoy line, the resource can land at Cadiz and go through Spain.

Personally I like to put almost all the French CPs in the Pacific and use them to ship either Aussie or New Caledonian resources. They'll likely stick around on the Allied side when France falls and if not, they'll be unsuppliable by Vichy. (You can set the CW CPs up to carry the French resources even though they are not yet allied. You can't be lending stuff back and forth yet but nothing stops the transport of French resources on CW CPs at turn-end.)

The nice thing about Free French ships of any type is they can be moved without taking CW or US Navals or Combineds. I especially like to have them get TRS and Amphs.


< Message edited by paulderynck -- 12/19/2012 10:00:23 PM >


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Paul

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Post #: 308
RE: AI for MWiF - France - 12/19/2012 11:57:31 PM   
Extraneous

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

You don't need a CP in the Med for that first convoy line, the resource can land at Cadiz and go through Spain.

Personally I like to put almost all the French CPs in the Pacific and use them to ship either Aussie or New Caledonian resources. They'll likely stick around on the Allied side when France falls and if not, they'll be unsuppliable by Vichy. (You can set the CW CPs up to carry the French resources even though they are not yet allied. You can't be lending stuff back and forth yet but nothing stops the transport of French resources on CW CPs at turn-end.)

The nice thing about Free French ships of any type is they can be moved without taking CW or US Navals or Combineds. I especially like to have them get TRS and Amphs.



The CP in the Western Mediterranean Sea also supplies the French in Malta.

I agree getting the Free French back in the war helps the CW.

If the USA has chosen...

quote:


15. Resources to western Allies - The US can give up to 5 resources per turn each to the Commonwealth and France in future turns (unlimited while the USA is at war with Germany). US convoy points CAN'T be used to transport these resources while the US is a neutral major power.

27. Lend lease to western Allies - The US can give up to 5 build points a turn (see 13.6.4 Lend lease) to each of the Commonwealth and France in future turns (unlimited while the USA is at war with Germany). You can only choose this option if you have already chosen entry option 15. Resources to western Allies. US convoy points CAN'T be used to transport these build points while the US is a neutral major power.

How you transport resources is described later (see 13.6.1 Resources and 13.5.1 Oil (AfA option 48)).



With some Free French CP's the USA can lend lease some BP's to the Free French and start rebuilding the French Army. This would come in handy before the USA enters the war.

With the TRS you can move the Free French land units to reinforce the CW.


Did you spot the error I made in post #307 (Hint: Chart 28 UNIT COSTS & CHARACTERISTICS)?



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Post #: 309
RE: AI for MWiF - France - 12/20/2012 6:59:36 AM   
paulderynck


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

The CP in the Western Mediterranean Sea also supplies the French in Malta.

I agree getting the Free French back in the war helps the CW.

If the USA has chosen...



The CP that's there to transport the resource from Algeria does that so, no the second one is completely redundant.

Putting a French unit in Malta is cetainly a very imaginative strategy


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Paul

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Post #: 310
RE: AI for MWiF - France - 12/20/2012 2:21:58 PM   
Extraneous

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

The CP that's there to transport the resource from Algeria does that so, no the second one is completely redundant.

Putting a French unit in Malta is certainly a very imaginative strategy



Point taken on the redundant CP (one more Free French CP ).

The problem with putting the French in Malta is that the TRS can't reorganize until 13.5 Final reorganization step. So it wouldn't be available to invade Italian ports on the second impulse.

If the French retain the TRS and the INF in Syria you have the same abilities as if you sailed to Marseilles or Toulon without having to reorganize the TRS.

Note to Italian players: put a Land unit in the port that you put your fleet. As the French player I would gladly sacrifice a French INF for the Italian Fleet.



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Post #: 311
RE: AI for MWiF - France - 12/20/2012 6:57:01 PM   
Centuur


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From: Hoorn (NED).
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous


quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

The CP that's there to transport the resource from Algeria does that so, no the second one is completely redundant.

Putting a French unit in Malta is certainly a very imaginative strategy



Point taken on the redundant CP (one more Free French CP ).

The problem with putting the French in Malta is that the TRS can't reorganize until 13.5 Final reorganization step. So it wouldn't be available to invade Italian ports on the second impulse.

If the French retain the TRS and the INF in Syria you have the same abilities as if you sailed to Marseilles or Toulon without having to reorganize the TRS.

Note to Italian players: put a Land unit in the port that you put your fleet. As the French player I would gladly sacrifice a French INF for the Italian Fleet.



Of course, you can't do this if you're playing with the AMPH rule. If playing with this rule, the French can only use the DIV to attack...

I usually put the French convoys all in the pacific. I want them to become Free French. The TRS I use to get two INF into France in the first turn. After that I'll sail it towards Gabon, together with the French cruiser fleet.

The Algerian resource can be transported by rail through Spain and Gibraltar, you don't need a convoy for this.

< Message edited by Centuur -- 12/20/2012 6:58:26 PM >


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Post #: 312
RE: AI for MWiF - France - 12/20/2012 7:09:47 PM   
Extraneous

 

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UPDATED VERSION FOR THE FREE FRENCH

Scrap the 1914 TRS it's worthless this gives your average TRS a minimum of move 3 range 3 (you still can't get a TRS out of the Mediterranean if it's loaded).

If the Italian player has an INF guarding their fleet:

There are 3 minor ports in the French Equatorial Africa administration group: Pt Norie (Middle Congo), Dualas (Cameroons), and Libreville (Gabon)

So you can only have 6 ships in port in the French Equatorial Africa administration group.

Set up
1) Convoy line (2 CP) Dakar, Senegal (French West Africa admin group) > 1 CP Cape Verde Basin > 1 CP Cape St. Vincent > > to Cádiz, Spain
2) Convoy line (1 CP) 1 CP Western Mediterranean Sea to supply French North Africa.
3) Convoy reserve: 4 CP (counts as 2 ships) in Pt Norie, Middle Congo French Equatorial Africa administration group (80% chance Free France retains 2 CP).
4) Convoy reserve: 3 CP (counts as 2 ships) in Noumea, New Caledonia (All Pacific map minors & territories admin group) (90% chance Free France retains 3 CP).

CA Algérie, CA Colbert, and CL Jean de Vienne (move 5 range 3) sails from Marseilles or Toulon to:
> Western Mediterranean Sea > Cape St. Vincent > Cape Verde Basin sea box 2 remain at sea and moves to sea box 1

First Impulse France chooses a Naval action.
CA Algérie, CA Colbert, and CL Jean de Vienne sails from Cape Verde Basin sea box 1
CA Algérie and CL Jean de Vienne > Gulf of Guinea > to the port of Dualas, Cameroons French Equatorial Africa administration group
CA Colbert > Gulf of Guinea > to the port of Libreville, Gabon French Equatorial Africa administration group

TRS with the INF (move 3 range 3) sails from Syria to > Eastern Mediterranean Sea > Western Mediterranean Sea > Marseilles or Toulon
Now you can reorganize the TRS with a headquarters unit in France (11.18 Reorganization ~ 11.18.2 HQ reorganization).

Second Impulse
TRS (move 3 range 3) sails from Marseilles or Toulon > Western Mediterranean Sea > Cape St. Vincent sea box 1 and stays at sea moves to sea box 0.

Second turn
TRS (move 3 range 3) sails from Cape St. Vincent sea box 0 to > Cape Verde Basin > Gulf of Guinea > to the port of Libreville, Gabon French Equatorial Africa administration group.

quote:

This should give me just enough CP's to establish a convoy line from French Equatorial Africa to the USA and a small Cruiser force to begin with once Vichy France is established. If the USA player is willing to Lend Lease 1 BP each turn to Free France in 3 turns you could start building a Land unit in French Equatorial Africa.

While in the Pacific nothing much can happen there until the USA enters the war.




< Message edited by Extraneous -- 12/20/2012 7:30:49 PM >


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Post #: 313
RE: AI for MWiF - France - 12/20/2012 7:59:32 PM   
paulderynck


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

UPDATED VERSION FOR THE FREE FRENCH

Scrap the 1914 TRS it's worthless this gives your average TRS a minimum of move 3 range 3 (you still can't get a TRS out of the Mediterranean if it's loaded).

Why not? It can be set up with the unit it will transport. From North Africa, even a 2-range TRS makes it to CSV. (Not sure why you'd transport a unit to anywhere but France, but...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

If the Italian player has an INF guarding their fleet:

You won't know this at set-up time if the fleet is in a port city. When the Italians go to war they can put a reserve unit in the city.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

There are 3 minor ports in the French Equatorial Africa administration group: Pt Norie (Middle Congo), Dualas (Cameroons), and Libreville (Gabon)

So you can only have 6 ships in port in the French Equatorial Africa administration group.

If playing SiF the ports can stack 4 naval units each.

I think the idea of invading onto the Italian fleet is quite a poor one, uncovered or not. First you have to DoW Italy which is bad for US entry (moreso in 1939 than in 1940 in fact, because of the average chit values). Second they can position a reserve unit to either make the invasion an automatic failure or at least put a ZOC on the port. Third, when invading from a 3-3 TRS (assuming you are not playing with the Amph rule) the 3-3 INF is halved.

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Post #: 314
RE: AI for MWiF - France - 12/20/2012 8:04:02 PM   
composer99


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pauldernyck:

A common Italian set up is to put the fleet in La Spezia, which is just a major port.

Admittedly, when I play Italy I usually have land units there to be shipped overseas, but they serve as a defence against surprise French attack.

Nevertheless, the opportunity to try to invade the Italian fleet in a surprise impulse should at least be considered by the AIO, even if it is ultimately (as I agree it will be) a very low-probability option.

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Post #: 315
RE: AI for MWiF - France - 12/20/2012 8:06:57 PM   
paulderynck


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I'd be overjoyed for you to consider it if playing France against my Italy.

...but, point taken, the AI should consider it. The problem is to set up to do it, putting a French unit in Malta is such a bad play considering the odds for a successful invasion, because if ultimately you don't do it, then you've disabled Malta as a port for the CW until you can waste more moves and oil getting it out of there...



< Message edited by paulderynck -- 12/20/2012 8:14:27 PM >


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Post #: 316
RE: AI for MWiF - France - 12/20/2012 11:40:22 PM   
Extraneous

 

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SiF option 9: Up to 4 naval units can stack together in a minor port. Every 2 convoy points (or any spare point) is a naval unit (I missed SiF option 9).

For some reason I was counting 1 range entering AND leaving port.

You spend 1 point of a unit’s RANGE For each sea area and port it moves into.

You spend 1 point of a unit’s MOVEMENT ALLOWANCE:
For each sea area and port it moves into;
If it starts the movement out of supply;
If it starts the impulse in a port with naval units controlled by another major power; and
For each point of the (unmodified) search number of the section you put the unit into.

UPDATED VERSION 1.1 FOR THE FREE FRENCH

Scrap the 1914 TRS it's worthless this gives your average TRS a minimum of move 3 range 3 (you still can't get a TRS out of the Mediterranean if it's loaded).

If the Italian player has an INF guarding their fleet:

There are 3 minor ports in the French Equatorial Africa administration group: Pt Norie (Middle Congo), Dualas (Cameroons), and Libreville (Gabon)

So you can only have 12 ships in port in the French Equatorial Africa administration group.

Set up
1) Convoy line (2 CP) Dakar, Senegal (French West Africa admin group) > 1 CP Cape Verde Basin > 1 CP Cape St. Vincent > > to Cádiz, Spain
2) Convoy line (1 CP) 1 CP Western Mediterranean Sea to supply French North Africa.
3) Convoy reserve: 4 CP (counts as 2 ships) in Pt Norie, Middle Congo French Equatorial Africa administration group (80% chance Free France retains 2 CP).
4) Convoy reserve: 3 CP (counts as 2 ships) in Noumea, New Caledonia (All Pacific map minors & territories admin group) (90% chance Free France retains 3 CP).

CA Algérie, CA Dupleix, CA Foch, CA Colbert, CL Gloire, CL Marseillaise, and CL Jean de Vienne (move 5 range 3) sails from Marseilles or Toulon to:
> Western Mediterranean Sea > Cape St. Vincent > Cape Verde Basin sea box 2 remain at sea and moves to sea box 1

First Impulse France chooses a Naval action.
CA Algérie, CA Dupleix, CA Foch, CA Colbert, CL Gloire, CL Marseillaise, and CL Jean de Vienne (move 5 range 3) sails from Cape Verde Basin sea box 1

CA Algérie CA Dupleix, CA Foch, and CL Jean de Vienne > Gulf of Guinea > to the port of Dualas, Cameroons French Equatorial Africa administration group
CA Colbert, CL Gloire, and CL Marseillaise > Gulf of Guinea > to the port of Libreville, Gabon French Equatorial Africa administration group

TRS with the INF (move 3 range 3) sails from Syria to > Eastern Mediterranean Sea > Western Mediterranean Sea > Marseilles or Toulon
Now you can reorganize the TRS with HQ-I Billotte in France (11.18 Reorganization ~ 11.18.2 HQ reorganization).

Second Impulse
TRS and HQ-i Georges (move 3 range 3) sails from Marseilles or Toulon > Western Mediterranean Sea > Cape St. Vincent > Cape Verde Basin > the major port Dakar, Senegal.
Reorganize the TRS with HQ-i Georges.

Third Impulse
TRS (move 3 range 3) sails from the major port Dakar, Senegal to > Cape Verde Basin > Cape St. Vincent > Western Mediterranean Sea > to the major port Marseilles or Toulon.

Second turn
First Impulse
TRS and an INF (move 3 range 3) sails from the major port Marseilles or Toulon > Western Mediterranean Sea > Cape St. Vincent > Cape Verde Basin > the major port Dakar, Senegal.
Reorganize the TRS with HQ-I Georges.

Second Impulse
TRS and INF (move 3 range 3) sails from the major port Dakar, Senegal to:
> Cape Verde Basin > Gulf of Guinea > to the minor port of Libreville, Gabon French Equatorial Africa administration group.

Third turn
First Impulse
TRS (move 3 range 3) sails from the minor port of Libreville, Gabon to:
> Gulf of Guinea > Cape Verde Basin > to the major port Dakar, Senegal
Reorganize the TRS with HQ-I Georges.

Second Impulse
TRS and HQ-I Georges (move 3 range 3) sails from the major port Dakar, Senegal to:
> Cape Verde Basin > Gulf of Guinea > to the minor port of Libreville, Gabon French Equatorial Africa administration group.

quote:


This should give me just enough CP's to establish a convoy line from French Equatorial Africa to the USA, a modest Cruiser force and the start of a small Free French army. Once Vichy France is established If the USA player is willing to Lend Lease 1 BP each turn to Free France in you could start building units in French Equatorial Africa.

If you have the bad luck to not get French Equatorial Africa to go Free French the Allies will probably take Paris before Vichy can straighten this out.

While in the Pacific nothing much can happen there until the USA enters the war.





< Message edited by Extraneous -- 12/21/2012 4:37:01 PM >


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Post #: 317
RE: AI for MWiF - France - 12/21/2012 2:00:54 AM   
brian brian

 

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bring home the Syrian INF in Syria. Leave the one in Algiers there. Put the Royal Engineers and a Gun on Malta. Don't be silly. Reinforce Malta above that level shortly, too. A TERR works nice for this as long as it is not the only unit there.

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RE: AI for MWiF - France - 12/21/2012 1:22:28 PM   
Centuur


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For France there is another possibility for setting up the French Cruisers. You can put the Algerie and four three range ones in Madagascar, and sail those to the Pacific (towards Australia and in the return to base step, you put them in New Caledonia/Papeete). The other cruisers can be set up in French Equatorial Africa at start (but save room for the TRS). Saves you the oil moving those there. Together with the CP in the pacific this surely means that all French ships there have the highest possible Free French survival possiblity.
The CP in the Western Med for providing supply to French North Africa is only necessary when playing with limited overseas supply. If not, I tend to sail the French BB fleet out there when war comes with the Italians...



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RE: AI for MWiF - France - 12/21/2012 6:53:17 PM   
paulderynck


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Good idea, although you can decide either that France will fall for sure (which this set-up infers) or that you will fight for it tooth and nail and if possible, exchange French ships for Italian ones.

The other problem is when you anticipate Vichy will be declared, ideally you want the Pacific CPs RTB'd before the Axis does it for you and if you want to keep them, they go to New Caledonia (otherwise the Axis will stick them all over the "other" places that are more likely to go Vichy of which Papeete is one).



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RE: AI for MWiF - France - 12/21/2012 7:22:16 PM   
Centuur


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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Good idea, although you can decide either that France will fall for sure (which this set-up infers) or that you will fight for it tooth and nail and if possible, exchange French ships for Italian ones.

The other problem is when you anticipate Vichy will be declared, ideally you want the Pacific CPs RTB'd before the Axis does it for you and if you want to keep them, they go to New Caledonia (otherwise the Axis will stick them all over the "other" places that are more likely to go Vichy of which Papeete is one).



Papeete is part of the same administration Group as New Caledonia (it is in the Pacific...). It goes with the same die roll. And the Axis may move those CP's into any port in the Pacific. I don't care at all where they go... 90% chance of becoming Free French is enough.

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RE: AI for MWiF - France - 12/21/2012 7:40:21 PM   
Extraneous

 

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quote:

I thought we agreed that:
Free-French Chart* (Administration group: Die (% chance to become Free French))
1)
Morocco (Capital: Rabat), Algeria (Capital: Algiers), and Tunisia (Capital: Tunis): 10 (10%)

2) French West Africa: 9–10 (20%)
French Guinea (Capital: Konakri), French Sudan (Capital: Bamako), Ivory Coast (Capital: Bingerville), Niger Colony (Capital: Niamey), Senegal (Capital: Dakar), Togo & Dahomey (Capital: Togo), Upper Volta (Capital: Oungadougou), and Mauretania (Capital: St. Louis)

3) Syria (Capital: Damascus): 9–10 (20%)

4) French Indo-China (Capital: Hanoi): 9–10 (20%)

5) Madagascar (Capital: Antanarivo): 8–10 (30%)

6) All Asian map minors & territories: 7–10 (40%)
Comoros Islands and Reunion Islands

7) French Equatorial Africa: 3–10 (80%)
Chad (Capital: Fort Lamy), Ubangi-Sharie (Capital: Bangui), Cameroons (Capital: Younde), Gabon (Capital: Libreville), Middle Congo (Capital: Brazzaville).

8) All Pacific map minors & territories: 2–10 (90%)
New Caledonia (territory) and all French Pacific islands

9) All other territories & minors: 9–10 (20%)
French Somaliland (Capital: Jibuti), French Guyana (Capital: Cayenne) (South America map) and all French islands on the Americas map


My Priority for CW capture or invasion of Vichy Territories
1) Syria for the 1 oil from Iraq.
2) French Indo-China to deny the 1 resource to Japan and Japanese alignment.
3) The major port at Dakar, Senegal for the 1 resource and the major port at Dakar.
4) Madagascar to deny Japanese alignment (after Japan aligns French Indo-China).
5) The major port at Papeete, French Polynesia (it helps with establishing Convoy lines to Noumea).
6) The minor port at Noumea, New Caledonia for the 1 resource.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur
For France there is another possibility for setting up the French Cruisers. You can put the Algerie and four three range ones in Madagascar, and sail those to the Pacific (towards Australia and in the return to base step, you put them in New Caledonia/Papeete). The other cruisers can be set up in French Equatorial Africa at start (but save room for the TRS). Saves you the oil moving those there. Together with the CP in the pacific this surely means that all French ships there have the highest possible Free French survival possibility.

The CP in the Western Med for providing supply to French North Africa is only necessary when playing with limited overseas supply. If not, I tend to sail the French BB fleet out there when war comes with the Italians...



Madagascar, Comoros Islands, and Reunion Islands are on the Asia map on VASSAL is this different in WiF?

Papeete, French Polynesia is on the Americas map on VASSAL is this different in WiF?


Unless you play with free set up 24.4.7 The Global war: Sep/Oct 1939 ~ Jul/Aug 1945 set up is:
CA Lamotte-Picquet is the only French ship on the Asia map.
TRS and 10 CP can be on any map.
The rest of the French Fleet is on the Europe map.

If you were to sail 4 CA from Madagascar to the minor port of Noumea (New Caledonia):
When Vichy is established the 4 CA will be out of supply until the USA enters the war.
There would be no CP in the minor port of Noumea to establish a Convoy line the port would be full.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Just a to keep everyone on the same page
OVERSEAS SUPPLY PATHS
Any part of a basic or railway supply path can be traced overseas. You may only trace supply overseas once for each unit attempting to trace supply, regardless of how many secondary supply sources are used between the tracing unit and the primary supply source.

The sea portion of a supply path does not count against the maximum number of hexes permitted in the path. The port hex you trace the overseas supply path INTO does count against your 4 hex limit. However it always counts as only 1 hex, regardless of what map it is on or what terrain it contains.

To trace a basic supply path overseas, the unit must be in a coastal hex or trace the path via a port. To trace a railway path overseas, the secondary source must be in a coastal hex or trace the path via a port.

SiF option 11: (limited overseas supply) You can only trace a supply path overseas if each sea area you trace it through contains a friendly convoy, TRS or AMPH.

From the coastal hex or port, you trace the supply path via any number of consecutive sea areas to a friendly controlled port which is a supply source itself or from which you can continue the supply path overland to a supply source.

You cannot trace a supply path into a sea area that contains:
An enemy CV, SCS or aircraft unit with an air-to-sea factor;
Unless it also contains a surface naval unit, or aircraft unit with an air-to-sea factor, (SiF option 11: convoy, TRS, or AMPH only) controlled by any major power or minor country at war with that enemy unit.

You can’t trace a supply path between sea areas if one of your SCS couldn’t move between them (see 11.4.4 Naval movement restrictions). For example, Axis units can’t trace supply between the Western Mediterranean and Cape St. Vincent until Gibraltar is Axis controlled.




< Message edited by Extraneous -- 12/21/2012 7:46:54 PM >


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Post #: 322
RE: AI for MWiF - France - 12/21/2012 11:37:24 PM   
paulderynck


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This may be a misunderstanding based on the differences in scale beween the board game WiF and MWIF which uses the European scale everywhere. We might need Steve to confirm whether the Admin Groups follow WiF which indeed would mean only a 20% chance for Papeete to go FF. (It's on the Americas map in WiF and thus in the "others" category.)

As for the set-up, when you play WiF with the Africa map, it is considered part of Europe for set-up purposes. (It says this in the set-up rules somewhere or other.) However Madagascar appears on the original Asia map too, and because of this I think it must be regarded as on the Asia map, not the Africa map, for set-up purposes.


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Post #: 323
RE: AI for MWiF - France - 12/22/2012 12:20:00 AM   
Extraneous

 

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In RAW7scenario.pdf it looks like Madagascar is on the Asia map just like VASSAL




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 324
RE: AI for MWiF - France - 12/22/2012 12:47:46 AM   
Extraneous

 

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Here is a link that shows all the WiF maps by expansions

quote:

AfA option 10: Territorial units must be set up in their home country. When randomly choosing a territorial to be placed on a map, you must pick a territorial that can set up on that map (e.g. Australians on the Pacific map). If you are playing with the Africa map (AfA/AsA option 1), “Europe” includes the African map.



quote:

24.4.1 Missed the Bus ~ The end of the beginning: Jul/Aug 1940 - Jul/Aug 1945

Free France is aligned with French Equatorial Africa and all French territories on the Pacific map;

Vichy France controls Metropolitan France (south of the Vichy border), and is aligned with Corsica, Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia, Syria, Indo-China, French West Africa, Madagascar and all French territories on the Asian and American maps;

24.4.3 Waking giant ~ The USA enters the war: Nov/Dec 1941 ~ Jul/Aug 1945

Free France is aligned with French Equatorial Africa and all French territories on the Pacific map;

Vichy France controls Metropolitan France (south of the Vichy border), and is aligned with Corsica, Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia, French West Africa, Madagascar and all French territories on the Asian and American maps;





Madagascar is now highlighted in red.


Trust me on this, its my fault Steve doesn't know about Option 10 on RAW7sceanario.pdf


Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Extraneous -- 12/22/2012 1:26:10 AM >


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Post #: 325
RE: AI for MWiF - France - 12/22/2012 3:39:14 AM   
paulderynck


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous
AfA option 10: Territorial units must be set up in their home country. When randomly choosing a territorial to be placed on a map, you must pick a territorial that can set up on that map (e.g. Australians on the Pacific map). If you are playing with the Africa map (AfA/AsA option 1), “Europe” includes the African map.


That's the quote I was thinking of and good point that it only applies to Territorials. The more general rule from the Scenario booklet is:
"A set up that specifies “Europe”, “Asia”, “Pacific” or “America” means you can set up the listed units on that map(s)."

Which means the French fleet cannot set up further south than the ports in Morocco.

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Post #: 326
RE: AI for MWiF - France - 12/22/2012 4:01:58 AM   
Extraneous

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck


That's the quote I was thinking of and good point that it only applies to Territorials. The more general rule from the Scenario booklet is:
"A set up that specifies “Europe”, “Asia”, “Pacific” or “America” means you can set up the listed units on that map(s)."

Which means the French fleet cannot set up further south than the ports in Morocco.


Mogador, French Morocco in the west and Beriut, Syria in the east.

< Message edited by Extraneous -- 12/22/2012 4:14:45 AM >


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RE: AI for MWiF - France - 12/22/2012 3:49:13 PM   
Centuur


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Historically, French Polynesia became Free French in 1940, together with New Caledonia. A percentage of 20% doesn't do justice to this fact... We therefore always played that all French Islands in the Pacific Ocean (independent of the map) are in the New Caledonian group...

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RE: AI for MWiF - France - 12/22/2012 7:34:38 PM   
Extraneous

 

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If Papeete, French Polynesia were on the Pacific map I wouldn't change my original set up because it would take to long to become useful.
1) From the major port of San Diego > 1 CP Austral > 1 CP East Pacific > 1 CP Mexican Coast > the major port of Papeete, French Polynesia.

The Convoy line would then have to be extended requiring 1 USA BP per turn for 3 turns to reach Noumea, New Caledonia.

2) From Austral > 1 CP South Pacific > 1 CP New Zealand Coast > 1 CP Coral Sea > the minor port to Noumea, New Caledonia.


By starting the 3 CP reserve in Noumea, New Caledonia I can create a Convoy line:
1) Lend lease 1 resource from the minor port to Noumea (New Caledonia) > 1 CP Coral Sea > to the major port of Brisbane (Australia) > and then by rail to Melbourne (Australia).

2) From the Coral Sea > 1 CP New Zealand Coast > 1 CP South Pacific to be extended when I have time, BP, and after Papeete, French Polynesia becomes Free French or the USA gets into the war.


If Papeete, French Polynesia and Noumea were the only administrative groups to go Free French I could sail the 3 CP from Noumea to Papeete to establish the Convoy line to the USA. This can only after the CW liberate Syria to Free France. The CW Lend leasing to Papeete would involve to many badly needed CW CP.


quote:

Q13.7-17 13.7.5 Q1: Prior to liberation of France is there any penalty for not reverting Vichy controlled territory to Free France?

Q2: After liberation, what are the consequences if the CW does not?

Q3: Is there any penalty for not liberating France other than France now being treated as red for Partisans?

Q1: There is no penalty until Paris is liberated.

Q2: If Free France's allies do not hand back the 1939 French territory they control at that point, they can no longer cooperate with France. Date 06/03/2008

Q3: No. Date 12/05/2008

13.7.5: If they could return territory but do not then they can never co-operate with the liberated major power. 12/05/2008



UPDATED VERSION 1.2 FOR THE FREE FRENCH

Scrap the 1914 TRS it's worthless this gives your average TRS a minimum of move 3 range 3 (you still can't get a TRS out of the Mediterranean if it's loaded).

If the Italian player has an INF guarding their fleet:

There are 3 minor ports in the French Equatorial Africa administration group: Pt Norie (Middle Congo) , Dualas, (Cameroons), and Libreville (Gabon)
So you can only have 12 ships in port in the French Equatorial Africa administration group.

Set up
1) Convoy line (2 CP) Dakar, Senegal (French West Africa admin group) > 1 CP Cape Verde Basin > 1 CP Cape St. Vincent > > to Cádiz, Spain
2) Convoy line (1 CP) 1 CP Western Mediterranean Sea to supply French North Africa.
3) Convoy reserve: 4 CP (counts as 2 ships) in the minor port of Pt Norie, Middle Congo French Equatorial Africa administration group (80% chance Free France retains 2 CP).
4) Convoy reserve: 3 CP (counts as 2 ships) in the minor port of Noumea, New Caledonia (All Pacific map minors & territories admin group) (90% chance Free France retains 3 CP).
5) CA Algérie, CA Dupleix, CA Foch, and CA Colbert (move 5 range 3) in the minor port of Mogador, French Morocco.
6) CL Gloire, CL Marseillaise, and CL Jean de Vienne (move 5 range 3) in the minor port of Casablanca, French Morocco.

First Impulse France chooses a Naval action.
CA Algérie CA Dupleix, CA Foch, and CL Jean de Vienne sail from the minor port of Mogador, French Morocco:
> Cape St. Vincent > Cape Verde Basin > Gulf of Guinea > to the minor port of Dualas, Cameroons French Equatorial Africa administration group

CA Colbert, CL Gloire, and CL Marseillaise sail from the minor port of Casablanca, French Morocco:
> Cape St. Vincent > Cape Verde Basin > Gulf of Guinea > to the minor port of Libreville, Gabon French Equatorial Africa administration group

TRS with the INF (move 3 range 3) sails from Syria to > Eastern Mediterranean Sea > Western Mediterranean Sea > Marseilles or Toulon
Now you can reorganize the TRS with HQ-I Billotte in France (11.18 Reorganization ~ 11.18.2 HQ reorganization).

Second Impulse
TRS and HQ-i Georges (move 3 range 3) sails from Marseilles or Toulon > Western Mediterranean Sea > Cape St. Vincent > Cape Verde Basin > the major port Dakar, Senegal.
Reorganize the TRS with HQ-i Georges.

Third Impulse
TRS (move 3 range 3) sails from the major port Dakar, Senegal to > Cape Verde Basin > Cape St. Vincent > Western Mediterranean Sea > to the major port Marseilles or Toulon.

13.5 Final reorganization step
OIL ~ TRS .1 CA Algérie .1 for HQ-I Billotte and Georges .8 TOTAL OIL .9
The rest of the Cruisers will not be able to be reorganized this turn.


Second turn
First Impulse

TRS and an INF (move 3 range 3) sails from the major port Marseilles or Toulon > Western Mediterranean Sea > Cape St. Vincent > Cape Verde Basin > the major port Dakar, Senegal.
Reorganize the TRS with HQ-I Georges.

Second Impulse
TRS and INF (move 3 range 3) sails from the major port Dakar, Senegal to:
> Cape Verde Basin > Gulf of Guinea > to the minor port of Libreville, Gabon French Equatorial Africa administration group.

Third turn
First Impulse

TRS (move 3 range 3) sails from the minor port of Libreville, Gabon to:
> Gulf of Guinea > Cape Verde Basin > to the major port Dakar, Senegal
Reorganize the TRS with HQ-I Georges.

Second Impulse
TRS and HQ-I Georges (move 3 range 3) sails from the major port Dakar, Senegal to:
> Cape Verde Basin > Gulf of Guinea > to the minor port of Libreville, Gabon French Equatorial Africa administration group.


If the CW liberates the major port at Dakar, Senegal my first build would be a CP for the 1 resource to be lend leased to the United Kingdom.



< Message edited by Extraneous -- 12/22/2012 7:39:34 PM >


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Post #: 329
RE: AI for MWiF - France - 12/23/2012 6:29:40 AM   
paulderynck


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

Historically, French Polynesia became Free French in 1940, together with New Caledonia. A percentage of 20% doesn't do justice to this fact... We therefore always played that all French Islands in the Pacific Ocean (independent of the map) are in the New Caledonian group...

Well of course you are free to do anything in the privacy of your games room as long as all are consenting adults and willing to break the rules.

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