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RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth

 
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RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 2/14/2011 4:05:08 PM   
Ur_Vile_WEdge

 

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I don't have my maps in front of me, but doesn't it use two fewer CP to send the australian resources via Cape Naturaliste, Southeastern Indian, Southwestern Indian, Mozambique Channel, Cape Basin, Gulf of Guinea,  Cape Verde, Cape St. Vincent, Bay of Biscay? I'm counting 9 sea zones as opposed to ten that it takes to send it through the Panama Canal.

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 421
RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 2/14/2011 6:05:22 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ur_Vile_WEdge

I don't have my maps in front of me, but doesn't it use two fewer CP to send the australian resources via Cape Naturaliste, Southeastern Indian, Southwestern Indian, Mozambique Channel, Cape Basin, Gulf of Guinea,  Cape Verde, Cape St. Vincent, Bay of Biscay? I'm counting 9 sea zones as opposed to ten that it takes to send it through the Panama Canal.

See post #420 for the full map with sea area names.

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RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 2/14/2011 6:09:01 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ur_Vile_WEdge

I don't have my maps in front of me, but doesn't it use two fewer CP to send the australian resources via Cape Naturaliste, Southeastern Indian, Southwestern Indian, Mozambique Channel, Cape Basin, Gulf of Guinea,  Cape Verde, Cape St. Vincent, Bay of Biscay? I'm counting 9 sea zones as opposed to ten that it takes to send it through the Panama Canal.

It only takes 5 to send them to Canada and then 2 of Canada's can be sent to England using 3 convoys per sea area - for a net of 8 convoys per resource.

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Post #: 423
RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 2/14/2011 6:35:06 PM   
Ur_Vile_WEdge

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ur_Vile_WEdge

I don't have my maps in front of me, but doesn't it use two fewer CP to send the australian resources via Cape Naturaliste, Southeastern Indian, Southwestern Indian, Mozambique Channel, Cape Basin, Gulf of Guinea,  Cape Verde, Cape St. Vincent, Bay of Biscay? I'm counting 9 sea zones as opposed to ten that it takes to send it through the Panama Canal.

It only takes 5 to send them to Canada and then 2 of Canada's can be sent to England using 3 convoys per sea area - for a net of 8 convoys per resource.



That doesn't help though, if you're aiming to satisfy Food in Flames. Since you can't ship-rail-ship, it's 2 Australian resources being sent to Canada, and then 2 Canadian resources being sent to the UK;I don't play with Food in Flames myself, but I believe that the resources need to go directly to Great Britain.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 424
RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 2/14/2011 7:34:35 PM   
paulderynck


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Personally, I would not place any convoys in the Med unless you want to allocate a good portion of your build points building convoys each turn. A strong CW presence in the Med is much more dependent on the Fighters and Nav that are drawn by the CW and Italy then it is on fleet strength. If the game is played with the Limited Overseas Supply (LOS - a popular choice) option than you can be ready to move 1 convoy in from each of Suez and Gibraltar, but that's about it. Also with LOS, only in dire circumstances would you not have a 1 convoy chain going from India around the Cape. In this case only 1 convoy is needed in the Red Sea, more for supply than for transport of resources.

The US has passed entry options 9 and 15 and the Burma Road is open. This means more resources can be flowing from North America. It also means ideally a Malayan resource should be going to China, so that the CW can use the Burma and NEI oil for re-org every turn. This can be done with one convoy in the Bay of Bengal and one in the East Indian. As Japan may soon go on the warpath, convoys close to her sphere of influence are very vulnerable.

Also if the resources from Australia are sent to Canada from Brisbane via Coral-New Zealand Coast-Polynesia-Clarion-Mexican Coast, landed in Mexico and railed from there, you save 2 convoys. You can avoid the Med route entirely and get 15 to the UK, comprised of 1 Indian, 4 Africa, 4 Canadian, 1 Brit Guyanan resources, along with 3 Venezuelan oil, 1 Canadian and 1 US oil. This leaves the Brit Guyana oil to be saved in place or used for re-org.

In summary, increase the North Atlantic route to 10, decrease the Med and Far East, save the 2 between Australia and Canada, and try to keep a few convoys in reserve.

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RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 2/15/2011 1:19:47 PM   
Kham

 

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There are three things that the Commonwealth cannot allow to happen. In priority:

1 Have a succesful Sea-Lion. A conquered UK is game over.
2 Loose Gibraltar to airborne/invasion (i.e. without a DOW on Spain)
3 Loose the battle of the Atlantic.

1a. Garrison Dover at all times when an euro-axis Marine is on the map
1b. Increase land troop builds if Germany is completing TRS and AMPH. Everything counts. Cavalry, Territorials, whatever it takes.
1c. Advance USSR troops in 1941 if an invasion is ongoing or emminent
1d. Build an offensive chit to counter a 1941 invasion with a land offensive.

2a. React to Axis advances toward Morroco in 1940.
2b. DOW on Portugal when/if Morroco goes into Axis hands. If the Axis paradrops after a collapse of Vichy the preparations will be visible (Presence of paratrooper in Algieria, Bock in invasion position). Mass numbers of spitfires in the 1 box is the only defense against axis landbased air, Portugal is needed to rebase these aircraft.
2c. Whiteprints in Gibraltar. Realize that supply units can be intercepted and destroyed and add a combat unit as the third defender.

3a. Have reorg capacity to abandon an area if it get clobbered in the first impulse.
3b. Fight from higher boxes. Use the whole navy and send the oil bill to the Americans.
3c. Use landbased air where possible.
3d. Rebuild losses. Even if the Axis fails to sink anything for a couple of turns do not stop building convoys.




(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 426
RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 2/16/2011 2:26:30 AM   
brian brian

 

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I have seen the Allies come back after losing the UK. The Axis took the UK after a Japanese DOW in 1940. US Entry was so accelerated that the Green Machine was a terror to behold in 1944, throwing an O-Chit per impulse. The Axis crumpled like a wet blanket. Stilwell's paradrop on Tokyo was the coup-de-grace for Japan, iirc = the Roosevelt fantasy scenario working at last.

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Post #: 427
RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 2/16/2011 8:11:36 PM   
michaelbaldur


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ur_Vile_WEdge

Just one thing to be careful of if you're taking two turns, might want to just aim for Dakar and pick up the resource on the second turn. Vichy France is at war with you guys, and if the German player lends out some resources or BP, she can build the mils. There's a 50-50 chance of drawing the Dakar Mil on one build, and it's a sure thing if he's willing to shell out 4 BP. Prying a 5 strength mil where he can't be knocked out of supply is certainly doable, but I imagine that the CW would want to deploy the force needed to do that somewhere else.



øøøhhhh what ..

all militz units are removed from the game when France is vichied ....

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Post #: 428
RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 2/16/2011 8:49:59 PM   
Kham

 

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All French mil are removed. The Dakar unit is not French.

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RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 2/16/2011 8:59:15 PM   
michaelbaldur


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kham

All French mil are removed. The Dakar unit is not French.


you are right ...

the 3 France city based volunteers should be in the force pool of the controlling major ..vichy or free





< Message edited by michaelbaldur -- 2/16/2011 9:01:49 PM >


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RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 2/19/2011 1:25:44 AM   
Extraneous

 

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To expand on michaelbaldur’s post…

quote:

17. Vichy France
17.3 Units
French units

Move all French controlled non-naval units and markers on the production circle to Metropolitan Vichy France. If you are playing with option 28 (pilots), you can only move an aircraft for each French pilot on the production circle or the pilot track (Vichy player’s choice). Any unpiloted aircraft on the production circle and reserve pool, or unused pilots on the circle or track, are lost.

Now, place in the force pools all French controlled ‘Res’ and ‘Mil’ units and half their other land and aircraft units (taken together) from Metropolitan Vichy France and each administration group controlled by Vichy France. The player running Vichy France can choose which to remove. If you are playing with PiF option 28, the pilot is lost with each removed aircraft.

All units controlled by France that are still in Vichy territory are now controlled by Vichy. All other French controlled units are Free French.

French controlled naval units on the production circle, in the repair pool or in the construction pool remain there as Vichy French units. They may be built using whatever production Vichy France retains.

Randomly remove half the units now in each French force pool (AfA Option 10: except territorial units) from the game.

AfA Option 10: All Territorials belonging to a minor country or territory controlled by Vichy France are removed from the French force pools and placed in a separate Vichy force pool.

All units left in the force pools, or that enters them from now on (AfA Option 10: except teritorial units), are Free French units (so every Vichy loss will become a Free French gain).

If the French HQ ‘De Gaulle’ is neither in a hex controlled by Free France nor the French force pools, move it to the French force pools.


quote:

19.13 MIL units
All MIL that arrive in cities in an aligned minor country are units of that minor county. All other MIL are major power units.



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RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 2/19/2011 1:00:06 PM   
Extraneous

 

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But I did find this…

quote:

Vichy production
Vichy France can use its resources and factories to produce Vichy French units. These will always be naval units (AfA Option 10: or territorial units, see 22.4.5 Territorials (AfA option 10)) because other French land and aircraft units in the force pool are Free French. Vichy France’s basic production multiple is the same as France’s.

Vichy France can only give resources and build points to an Axis major power if she is hostile to an Allied major power (exception, see 5.1 Trade agreements). The Axis major power that installed the Vichy government can always lend resources and build points to Vichy France.



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Post #: 432
RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 2/19/2011 7:15:09 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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This probably would be better placed in a different thread, but since the discussion has drifted into Vichy France, I thought the following from the Players Manual might be of interest.

The only serious decision the Commonwealth has to make here is whether to destroy French units and make Vichy France hostile (7.12.7).
===
7.12 Vichy Declaration Subphases

During this phase, if the an Axis major power has an in-supply land unit in Paris, France is not conquered, and Vichy has not yet been declared, the Axis power that occupies Paris may declare the formation of the Vichy Government. Should that decision be taken, then MWIF executes the following subphases in the order shown.

7.12.1 Determine Control of French Administrative Groups (RAC 17.2)
This subphase asks the Axis major power if he wants to declare Vichy France. If the answer is yes, then MWIF generates random numbers to decide which of the French administrative groups will go to Vichy France (the Axis side) and which will become Free French (the Allied side).

The processing for changing countries to becoming part of Vichy France is rather complex. See RAC section 17.2 for details. From MWIF’s point of view it has to check every hex on the map to see if it is now Axis controlled or not, due to the changing affiliations of the countries that became part of Vichy France. Those countries also become neutral vis-a-vis all major powers.

As part of its internal record keeping, MWIF reassesses foreign troop commitments in all countries that had been part of France, after the determination of what countries are controlled by Vichy France and Free France.

The French player then gets to choose a new home country for France (i.e., for Free France).

Once all the house keeping tasks have been performed and the French player has chosen his new home country, the game advances to the next subphase.

7.12.2 Move Non-French Land & Air Units (RAC 17.3 paragraph 1)
As the name for this section indicates, during this subphase MWIF moves all non-French land and air units that are in Vichy controlled hexes to the Relocate Stack. Once all such units have been placed in the Relocate Stack, MWIF executes a Relocate digression so the major powers that own those units can move them to the nearest friendly hex.

After the Relocate digression has been completed, the game advances to the next subphase.

7.12.3 Move Non-French Naval Units (RAC 17.3 paragraph 2)
During this subphase MWIF moves all non-French naval units that are in Vichy controlled ports to the Rebase Stack. Once all such units have been placed in the Rebase Stack, MWIF executes a Rebase digression so the major powers that own those units can move them to a friendly port. As usual, rebasing naval units may be intercepted and a naval combat necessary. After the Rebase digression has been completed, the game advances to the next subphase.

7.12.4 Return French Units at Sea to Land (RAC 17.3 paragraph 3)
During this subphase, MWIF moves all French units at sea, both air and naval, into the Return To Base Stack. Once all such units have been placed in the Return To Base Stack, MWIF executes a Return To Base digression so the Axis major power that declared Vichy France can move them to the nearest hex that is controlled by either Vichy France or Free France.

Note that the Axis player is making these decisions and though he is constrained to place these units in the nearest French hex (specifically a port for naval units), he might have two or more from which to choose. This means he might be able to move them to a Vichy France/Axis controlled hex instead of a Free France/Allied controlled hex. If the units at sea are not within range of a French hex, they are destroyed.

This subphase is the one exception in the game where moving naval units can not be intercepted. Partly that is because until the units return to port it is not clear to which side they are going to belong. Once the Return To Base digression has been completed, the game advances to the next subphase.

7.12.5 Move French Land and Air Units from Axis Territory (RAC 17.3 paragraph 4)
During this subphase MWIF moves all French land and air units in Axis controlled hexes, that are not part of Vichy France, into the Relocate Stack. Once all such units have been placed in the Relocate Stack, MWIF executes a Relocate digression so the Axis major power that declared Vichy France can move them to the nearest hex that is controlled by Vichy France or Free France. Also at this time, if there are any French partisans in Vichy France, they are destroyed (removed from the game).

Once the Relocate digression has been completed, the game advances to the next subphase.

7.12.6 Move French Naval Units from Axis Territory (RAC 17.3 paragraph 4)
During this subphase MWIF moves all French naval units in Axis controlled hexes, that are not part of Vichy France, into the Rebase Stack. Once all such units have been placed in the Rebase Stack, MWIF executes a Rebase digression so the Axis major power that declared Vichy France can move them to the nearest port that is controlled by Vichy France.

As usual, rebasing naval units may be intercepted and a naval combat necessary. Once the digression has been completed, the game advances to the next subphase.

7.12.7 Destroy French Units (RAC 17.3 paragraph 5)
During this subphase MWIF identifies all the French units that are in hexes controlled by major powers on the Allied side (other than Free France). Those major powers are given the opportunity of destroying none, any, or all of the French units in hexes they control. If an Allied major power destroys any French units, Vichy France becomes hostile to that major power. The game then advances to the next subphase.

Note that this subphase occurs before French units in Allied territory are moved to French territory (i.e., in the next two subphases).

7.12.8 Move French Land and Air Units from Allied Territory (RAC 17.3 paragraph 5)
During this subphase MWIF moves all French land and air units in Allied controlled hexes, that are not part of Free France, into the Relocate Stack. Once all such units have been placed in the Relocate Stack, MWIF executes a Relocate digression so the Axis major power that declared Vichy France can move them to the nearest hex that is controlled by either Free France or Vichy France.

Once the Relocate digression has been completed, the game advances to the next subphase.

7.12.9 Move French Naval Units from Allied Territory (RAC 17.3 paragraph 5)
During this subphase MWIF moves all French naval units in Allied controlled hexes, that are not part of Free France, into the Rebase Stack. Once all such units have been placed in the Rebase Stack, MWIF executes a Rebase digression so the Axis major power that declared Vichy France can move them to the nearest port that is controlled by either Free France or Vichy France.

As usual, rebasing naval units may be intercepted and a naval combat necessary. Once the digression has been completed, the game advances to the next subphase.

7.12.10 Move French Land & Air Units from Off-map Pools (RAC 17.3 paragraph 6 & 7)
Provided that the optional rule Pilots is being used, this phase starts with MWIF checking how many pilots Vichy France has available, either in production or previously owned by France. That number is compared against the number of air units in the Vichy France Air Reserve (previously the French Air Reserve) plus those in production. If there are fewer pilots than air units, the Vichy France player gets to choose to which air units to assign pilots. Piloted air units go into the Setup pool to be setup in the next subphase. Excess air units are placed in the Free French force pool. Excess pilots are simply destroyed.

Next, MWIF goes through all the French non-naval units that are in the production pool and decides what should happen to them. Most go into the Setup pool to be setup in the next subphase. Oil resources and factories that are being repaired stay in the production pool but become controlled by Vichy France.

French militia and reserve units, both those on the map or those off the map, go into the Free France force pool, unless they are suppose to arrive in a specific city and that city is held by the enemy. In which case, they are placed in the Reserve pool.

After these housekeeping tasks are finished, the game advances to the next subphase.

7.12.11 Place French Units onto Map (RAC 17.3 paragraph 6)
During this subphase, the Vichy France player gets to place any units from the Setup pool onto the map in Vichy Metropolitan France. The standard setup tray is used. Once the Vichy France player clicks on the End of Phase button on the main form, the game advances to the next subphase.

7.12.12 Remove French Units from Map (RAC 17.3 paragraph 7)
During this subphase MWIF goes through each of the administrative groups controlled by Vichy France and lets the Axis major power that declared Vichy France decide which of the land and air units in those administrative groups should stay on the map. Note that all the on-map French reserve and militia units were removed earlier (see section 7.12.10). Half of the remaining land and air units, in each administrative group, rounding up, have to be removed. The removed units go into the Free French force pool. The administrative groups are processed individually, without regard for removals in other administrative groups. After every Vichy controlled administrative group has been processed, the game advances to the next subphase.

7.12.13 Determine Vichy French and Free French Units (RAC 17.3 paragraphs 8 thru 11)
During this subphase all French units on the map in Vichy territory, in the production pool, repair pool, and construction pool, become Vichy French units.

Then MWIF removes half of the Free French units from the force pool (territorial units are not affected). Once the Free French force pool has been cut in half, MWIF displays the remaining force pool to the Free France player. Unless DeGaulle is already on the map and in an Allied controlled hex, that HQ unit is placed in the Free France force pool.

Once these housekeeping tasks are completed, the formation of Vichy France is complete and the game advances to the next phase (Liberation).


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RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 2/20/2011 8:24:18 AM   
Orm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck


quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

though I have no problem with the idea, this is an example of a 'gamey' strategy some people don't want the AI to emulate in other areas, generally for Axis decision points.

I can never remember to do return-to-base moves _before_ the Vichy process, a definite 'duhh' on my part.

This is why I don't post much in the AI threads. It seems all my ideas are "gamey".


This is why I appreciate when you post in the AI threads.

The AI needs to know about the "gamey" ideas so it can respond to them. Whether they are "gamey" or not the AI needs to learn how to respond to the "play" if it is allowed in MWIF.

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Post #: 434
RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 2/20/2011 1:56:33 PM   
Extraneous

 

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quote:

Original: MWiF RAC
7.12.2 Move Non-French Land & Air Units (RAC 17.3 paragraph 1)
As the name for this section indicates, during this subphase MWIF moves all non-French land and air units that are in Vichy controlled hexes to the Relocate Stack. Once all such units have been placed in the Relocate Stack, MWIF executes a Relocate digression so the major powers that own those units can move them to the nearest friendly hex.


What is “the Relocate Stack”? This reads as if you are putting all the relocating units in one pile and then moving them “to the nearest friendly hex”.


quote:

Original: MWiF RAC
7.12.10 Move French Land & Air Units from Off-map Pools (RAC 17.3 paragraph 6 & 7)
Provided that the optional rule Pilots is being used; this phase starts with MWIF checking how many pilots Vichy France has available, either in production or previously owned by France. That number is compared against the number of air units in the Vichy France Air Reserve (previously the French Air Reserve) plus those in production. If there are fewer pilots than air units, the Vichy France player gets to choose to which air units to assign pilots. Piloted air units go into the Setup pool to be setup in the next subphase. Excess air units are placed in the Free French force pool. Excess pilots are simply destroyed.

Next, MWIF goes through all the French non-naval units that are in the production pool and decides what should happen to them. Most go into the Setup pool to be setup in the next subphase. Oil resources and factories that are being repaired stay in the production pool but become controlled by Vichy France.

French militia and reserve units, both those on the map or those off the map, go into the Free France force pool, unless they are suppose to arrive in a specific city and that city is held by the enemy. In which case, they are placed in the Reserve pool.

After these housekeeping tasks are finished, the game advances to the next subphase.
Next, MWIF goes through all the French non-naval units that are in the production pool and decides what should happen to them. Most go into the Setup pool to be setup in the next subphase. Oil resources and factories that are being repaired stay in the production pool but become controlled by Vichy France.

French militia and reserve units, both those on the map or those off the map, go into the Free France force pool, unless they are suppose to arrive in a specific city and that city is held by the enemy. In which case, they are placed in the Reserve pool.

7.12.11 Place French Units onto Map (RAC 17.3 paragraph 6)
During this subphase, the Vichy France player gets to place any units from the Setup pool onto the map in Vichy Metropolitan France. The standard setup tray is used. Once the Vichy France player clicks on the End of Phase button on the main form, the game advances to the next subphase.


quote:

Original: WiFFE-RAW-7.0
Move all French controlled non-naval units and markers on the production circle to Metropolitan Vichy France. If you are playing with option 28 (pilots), you can only move an aircraft for each French pilot on the production circle or the pilot track (Vichy player’s choice). Any unpiloted aircraft on the production circle and reserve pool, or unused pilots on the circle or track, are lost.


“Move French Land & Air Units from Off-map Pools” should be changed to “Move French Land & Air Units into their respective pools”.

When you added “French militia and reserve units, both those on the map or those off the map, go into the Free France force pool, unless they are suppose to arrive in a specific city and that city is held by the enemy. In which case, they are placed in the Reserve pool” your title for this paragraph becomes misleading.


quote:

Original: MWiF RAC
7.12.12 Remove French Units from Map (RAC 17.3 paragraph 7)
During this subphase MWIF goes through each of the administrative groups controlled by Vichy France and lets the Axis major power that declared Vichy France decide which of the land and air units in those administrative groups should stay on the map. Note that all the on-map French reserve and militia units were removed earlier (see section 7.12.10). Half of the remaining land and air units, in each administrative group, rounding up, have to be removed. The removed units go into the Free French force pool. The administrative groups are processed individually, without regard for removals in other administrative groups. After every Vichy controlled administrative group has been processed, the game advances to the next subphase.


quote:

Original: WiFFE-RAW-7.0
Now, place in the force pools all French controlled ‘Res’ and ‘Mil’ units and half their other land and aircraft units (taken together) from Metropolitan Vichy France and each administration group controlled by Vichy France. The player running Vichy France can choose which to remove. If you are playing with PiF option 28, the pilot is lost with each removed aircraft.


The RAC omits the units in Metropolitan Vichy France. As it is written it reads as if the game is individually accessing each administrative group and removing half of the units there.

Example: There are 4 units in Metropolitan Vichy France and 1 unit in each of 2 different Vichy administrative groups.

According to the RAC: The 4 units in Metropolitan Vichy France are not involved in this evaluation and all the units in the Vichy administrative groups are removed.

According to the RAW: 3 of the 6 units in Metropolitan Vichy France and the 2 Vichy administrative groups are removed.


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Post #: 435
RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 2/20/2011 6:00:21 PM   
paulderynck


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Although you could read the RAW quote that you halve the total number of Vichy French units on the game map, it is not done that way. It is done per admin group exactly like the quote from RAC - they are processed individually. Very few Vichy admin groups will end up with any units in them in a typical game - other than Metropolitan France. Maybe Syria and maybe Algeria because they have two territorials that might both be in play. The "taken together" in the RAW sentence is with respect to land and air units, not with respect to Admin groups.

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(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 436
RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 2/20/2011 7:05:01 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

quote:

Original: MWiF RAC
7.12.2 Move Non-French Land & Air Units (RAC 17.3 paragraph 1)
As the name for this section indicates, during this subphase MWIF moves all non-French land and air units that are in Vichy controlled hexes to the Relocate Stack. Once all such units have been placed in the Relocate Stack, MWIF executes a Relocate digression so the major powers that own those units can move them to the nearest friendly hex.


What is “the Relocate Stack”? This reads as if you are putting all the relocating units in one pile and then moving them “to the nearest friendly hex”.


quote:

Original: MWiF RAC
7.12.10 Move French Land & Air Units from Off-map Pools (RAC 17.3 paragraph 6 & 7)
Provided that the optional rule Pilots is being used; this phase starts with MWIF checking how many pilots Vichy France has available, either in production or previously owned by France. That number is compared against the number of air units in the Vichy France Air Reserve (previously the French Air Reserve) plus those in production. If there are fewer pilots than air units, the Vichy France player gets to choose to which air units to assign pilots. Piloted air units go into the Setup pool to be setup in the next subphase. Excess air units are placed in the Free French force pool. Excess pilots are simply destroyed.

Next, MWIF goes through all the French non-naval units that are in the production pool and decides what should happen to them. Most go into the Setup pool to be setup in the next subphase. Oil resources and factories that are being repaired stay in the production pool but become controlled by Vichy France.

French militia and reserve units, both those on the map or those off the map, go into the Free France force pool, unless they are suppose to arrive in a specific city and that city is held by the enemy. In which case, they are placed in the Reserve pool.

After these housekeeping tasks are finished, the game advances to the next subphase.
Next, MWIF goes through all the French non-naval units that are in the production pool and decides what should happen to them. Most go into the Setup pool to be setup in the next subphase. Oil resources and factories that are being repaired stay in the production pool but become controlled by Vichy France.

French militia and reserve units, both those on the map or those off the map, go into the Free France force pool, unless they are suppose to arrive in a specific city and that city is held by the enemy. In which case, they are placed in the Reserve pool.

7.12.11 Place French Units onto Map (RAC 17.3 paragraph 6)
During this subphase, the Vichy France player gets to place any units from the Setup pool onto the map in Vichy Metropolitan France. The standard setup tray is used. Once the Vichy France player clicks on the End of Phase button on the main form, the game advances to the next subphase.


quote:

Original: WiFFE-RAW-7.0
Move all French controlled non-naval units and markers on the production circle to Metropolitan Vichy France. If you are playing with option 28 (pilots), you can only move an aircraft for each French pilot on the production circle or the pilot track (Vichy player’s choice). Any unpiloted aircraft on the production circle and reserve pool, or unused pilots on the circle or track, are lost.


“Move French Land & Air Units from Off-map Pools” should be changed to “Move French Land & Air Units into their respective pools”.

When you added “French militia and reserve units, both those on the map or those off the map, go into the Free France force pool, unless they are suppose to arrive in a specific city and that city is held by the enemy. In which case, they are placed in the Reserve pool” your title for this paragraph becomes misleading.


quote:

Original: MWiF RAC
7.12.12 Remove French Units from Map (RAC 17.3 paragraph 7)
During this subphase MWIF goes through each of the administrative groups controlled by Vichy France and lets the Axis major power that declared Vichy France decide which of the land and air units in those administrative groups should stay on the map. Note that all the on-map French reserve and militia units were removed earlier (see section 7.12.10). Half of the remaining land and air units, in each administrative group, rounding up, have to be removed. The removed units go into the Free French force pool. The administrative groups are processed individually, without regard for removals in other administrative groups. After every Vichy controlled administrative group has been processed, the game advances to the next subphase.


quote:

Original: WiFFE-RAW-7.0
Now, place in the force pools all French controlled ‘Res’ and ‘Mil’ units and half their other land and aircraft units (taken together) from Metropolitan Vichy France and each administration group controlled by Vichy France. The player running Vichy France can choose which to remove. If you are playing with PiF option 28, the pilot is lost with each removed aircraft.


The RAC omits the units in Metropolitan Vichy France. As it is written it reads as if the game is individually accessing each administrative group and removing half of the units there.

Example: There are 4 units in Metropolitan Vichy France and 1 unit in each of 2 different Vichy administrative groups.

According to the RAC: The 4 units in Metropolitan Vichy France are not involved in this evaluation and all the units in the Vichy administrative groups are removed.

According to the RAW: 3 of the 6 units in Metropolitan Vichy France and the 2 Vichy administrative groups are removed.


Yes, the Relocate Stack is a pile of units. The player decides in which order to relocate units. This is no different from the Rebase and Return to Base Stacks.

Yes, the title for the section is not perfect, but the text explains clearly what happens.

In this subphase MWIF treats Metropolitan Vichy France as one of the adminstrative groups, since the processing is the same. I'll add text to make that clear.

The text in RAW for removing half the land/air units is ambiguous in several ways. As is common in RAW, modifying clauses are strung together leaving it up to the reader to interpret what each clause modifies. For MWIF I had to decide exactly what would happen, and the text in the Players Manual is clear as to what does happen.

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(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 437
RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 2/20/2011 7:24:13 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Although you could read the RAW quote that you halve the total number of Vichy French units on the game map, it is not done that way. It is done per admin group exactly like the quote from RAC - they are processed individually. Very few Vichy admin groups will end up with any units in them in a typical game - other than Metropolitan France. Maybe Syria and maybe Algeria because they have two territorials that might both be in play. The "taken together" in the RAW sentence is with respect to land and air units, not with respect to Admin groups.

The text I posted above is from the Players Manual, not from Rules as Coded (RAC). In RAC the text for this section is virtually verbatim from ADG's Rules as Written (RAW). In RAC I made almost no changes to the text in RAW (I corrected a few minor grammatical errors). Instead, changes from RAW are shown as clearly defined Deviations.

What Section 7 Sequence of Play in the Players Manual does is provide some clarity as to how the game implements RAC. It focuses on how the game transitions from each phase, subphase, and sub-subphase to the next. It also includes subsections describing each of the Digressions from the sequence of play. Within each of these 150+ 'phases' in the sequence of play the text informs the player what happens, who decides, and when the 'phase' is over.

I've made no attempt at all to rewrite RAW - far too much work and doomed to generating endless arguments. Rather, the Players Manual is intended to communicate what happens in MWIF, after all the interpretations of RAW have been made and written into Pascal code.

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Post #: 438
RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 2/26/2011 1:51:47 PM   
Extraneous

 

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Using Post #6 of this thread and the AI Opponent – Geography this should show the Theater of Operations and objectives for the CW.

1939 - 1940 Theaters of Operations: West Europe, The Mediterranean, East Africa.

West Europe:

England: At this time Militias should be sufficient to defend London and Dover in Great Britain.

Belgium, France, and the Netherlands: The BEF sent to this AO doesn't need to be all that large in 1939, but by May/June 1940 this will be an active AO and should have as much as can be spared. But stripping down theatres, like the Mediterranean, that have better prospects for long-term success is unlikely to be a wise move.


The Mediterranean

(1) Gibraltar: Should be sufficiently defended by 1 Corps and 1 Division. If the Italians build MAR or AMPH during this time period then an additional Corps should be added.

(2) Malta: This is a crucial hex during this period, and will be critical later when you want to project air and sea power around Italy. Its defenses should have two white print Corps and a strong Division as quickly as is reasonable. The CW AI's knowledge of Italian forces and their dispositions will help in making a decision as to how quickly to add units to Malta’s defenses.

(3) Egypt (Alexandria, Cairo, and Suez) and Jerusalem: In this part of the game, after Gibraltar and Malta these are most important regions of the CW empire especially if Italy aggressively positions itself against them. They should be reinforced as quickly as possible. For a good defense you need MECH, GARR, MIL and Artillery. For a good offence you need MECH, MOT, MOT Division’s, and Artillery.


Theater options:

The Mediterranean

Sardinia: Given the small size of Italy's army at the start of the game, a quick invasion of Sardinia followed up with enough defensive units can put it in your hands for good. The CW should time this for when Germany is enmeshed in France.

Tripoli: If Italy only lightly defends or neglects the border with Egypt (CW) or Tunisia (France), then Allied forces can strike from Egypt or be sent through Tunisia in an attempt to take Tripoli (Italian). If an Axis attack on Egypt is repulsed the CW should have sufficient forces and should consider launching a counter-offensive during this period.


East Africa:

Italian East Africa (Italian Somaliland and Eritrea): Froonp’s has a good point in denying a new home country to Italy by taking this Theater of Operation. IF the Axis isn’t pressing hard in the Mediterranean during this period second line CW Indian, South African, and TERR units can be used here.

Ethiopia: If one of your second line units is not needed at this time and Ethiopia is unoccupied march down the rail line and liberate it.



1941 Theaters of Operations: Asia, The Mediterranean, India, East Europe, South Pacific, and West Europe.

Defense of Gibraltar has the highest priority but the CW response depends on the Axis strategy for 1941:
(a) Operation Seelöwe (Operation Sea Lion): An attack on Great Britain is imminent or underway. The Axis plan to defend the Russian border; or
(b) Operation Sonnenblume (Operation Sunflower- the deployment of German troops to North Africa): A major Mediterranean offensive. The Axis plan to defend the Russian border and they don’t have the forces in place to launch Operation Seelöwe
(c) Operation Barbarossa: An attack on Russia is imminent or underway; or


West Europe

Operation Seelöwe (Operation Sea Lion):The CW objective is to prevent the Italian fleet from in invading Gibraltar and then assisting in invading England.

Pretty much every other air unit and first line land unit should be in England and Northern Ireland. The RN and naval bombers are divided between keeping the vital sea-lanes to England and Gibraltar open and attacking invasion fleets (preferably by port-strike if possible).


The Mediterranean

Operation Barbarossa: In this situation the AI should defended Gibraltar, Malta, and Sardinia according to the Axis' ability to threaten them, but each should always have 1 Corps (even if just a MIL or TERR) on each port.

Operation Seelöwe and Operation Sonnenblume In this situation the AI should have the strongest possible units in place to defended Gibraltar.

Keep the Mediterranean Closed

IF the Axis is going through Spain to get at Gibraltar THEN Tangiers (ER RIF, Spain) should have an HQ, an Engineer, and Artillery to provide more air unit cover and Artillery/HQ support AND Gibraltar should have two white print Corps and a strong Division. IF they do not THEN Gibraltar must have the HQ, the Engineer, and another white print Corps.


Operation Sonnenblume (Operation Sunflower): The CW objective is to prevent the Italian fleet from in invading Gibraltar.

The Axis strategic objectives are Spain, Gibraltar, Egypt, and the Middle East.


East Europe

Operation Barbarossa: The objective list here is much more thorough: Gibraltar (but not as thoroughly), Malta, Sardinia (if you have them/it), the Middle East, and Asia/Pacific.

The Mediterranean defenses will depend upon whether or not you're on the offensive in this theatre. If you are, they can be limited to preventing tactical invasions on your fleets in port; if you aren't, then you need to throw as much as you can in there.




Theater options: Chances are this can only be implemented when the CW is not facing Operation Seelöwe or Operation Sonnenblume.

The Mediterranean

Sardinia and Tripoli: These top the list in this year, but if the CW already has them by summer, and has forces to spare.

Sicily: The CW may want to consider landing here in conjunction with a strategic air war over Italy in 1941. Arranging the collapse of Italy is nice, but should only be attempted if the Axis are negligent in their defense; otherwise the point is to cripple the Italian economy, secure more airbases and ports in the Italian Coast sea area, and force the Germans to send lots of units to defend the rest of Italy.


India

Colombo and Calcutta: A Corps is required in these areas.

Having a Corps in all objective hexes on the Indian and Pacific Oceans by September/October 1941 is probably a must, especially Colombo, Calcutta,

India can probably be stripped down in favor of Singapore and Kuala Lumpur until November/December 1941.


Asia

Singapore and Kuala Lumpur: India and South Pacific can probably be stripped down in favor of these areas until November/December 1941.


West Pacific

IF the US chooses 13.3.2 US Entry Option 36: CW reinforces Pacific (1 entry pool chit and 70% chance for a second entry pool chit to go to the Ja tension pool) before Japan seizes Rabaul, THEN the CW should send two white print Corps in there ASAP, so it should have the Corps and sealift ready from September/October 1941 onwards.


South Pacific

Australia and New Zealand: These can probably be stripped down in favor of Singapore and Kuala Lumpur until November/December 1941.



1942 - 1943 Theaters of Operations: Asia, the Mediterranean, East Africa, South Pacific, West Europe, and West Pacific.


West Europe

The CW should launch raids to seize ports like Brest or Bordeaux or to destroy Axis units in France, but without the intention of staying ashore. This should be done only when land units, sealift, and air assets can be spared (or more often if you have a more aggressive CW AI).


The Mediterranean

Unless the Axis are ashore in England, the Allies should have enough presence in the Med to be firmly on the offensive, so defenses should be designed only to protect fleets from sudden invasions and to prevent newly-gained territory from being taken back by the Axis. Otherwise the defenses must be constructed to prevent the Axis from taking areas in the Mediterranean while the main Allied thrust is to kick them out of England.

Italy or Spain: By this point, the goal is to put Italy out of the war. If Gibraltar is controlled by the Axis go through Spain and Portugal to get at it.


India

India, Ceylon, Burma: These areas need to have solid defenses in the event of Japanese attack; MTN units, which appear during this period, should be sent to defend them.

IF Japan has not thrown forces into Burma (CW) AND Japan is not attacking India (CW), THEN the Indian Army should launch its own campaign into Siam.


Asia

Singapore and Kuala Lumpur: If Japan has not taken these they should be defended as strongly as possible.


West Pacific

NEI and Rabaul: If Japan has not taken these they should be defended as strongly as possible.


South Pacific

Australia and New Zealand: need to be defended according to Japan's ability to threaten them with long-term invasions, but as long as Japan can project power into their adjacent sea zones their victory hexes should to be covered.


East Africa

South Africa: Should have strong enough defenses to hold out for a turn or two against Japanese aggression. The logistical distance from Japan/Singapore to South Africa means that they're not likely to come ashore in great force unless they have nothing better to do.


Theater options

Other places to attack depend on Japan's strength. IF Japan has weakly defended areas it has captured AND the CW have forces in place to re-take them THEN it should go for it. Unfortunately for the CW this may not happen often.



1944 - 1945 Theaters of Operations:

By this point almost everywhere in the world that the CW controls that is not directly bordering the Wehrmacht is not seriously threatened by any Axis forces. The CW's defenses in Asia, the Pacific and the Mediterranean should be limited to preventing the Axis from disrupting continued Allied offensives.


The Mediterranean

Italy: Finish the capture of Italy.


West Europe

France and Germany : Liberate the France.

Germany : Finish the capture of Germany.


West Pacific

Rabaul and The NEI: If Japan still controls either of these attempt to capture them.


Asia

Singapore, Hong Kong. Taiwan, and Japan: If Japan still controls either of these attempt to capture them

While the USA will be predominant in the Pacific, the CW should endeavor to get as many victory hexes as it can there; after all, it wants to win the game!



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(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 439
RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 4/17/2011 8:57:50 AM   
Orm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ur_Vile_WEdge

Some thoughts:


I'm going to start off by saying that I don't play Lebensraum all that often, usually just sticking to the Global War scenario, so if I leave something out, or suggest something impossible, please forgive me.


As I understand, your CW production breaks down as follows

Rail:
2 in UK
2 in India
2 in Canada
1 in Australia.

Shipping to UK:
4 from Canada
3 from Venezuela
2 from British Guyana
3 from South Africa
1 from India.
1 from Cyprus
1 from Belgian Congo.


I'm not crazy about your ability to keep the cyprus resource moving along, and I join my voice with some of the others, I'm too chicken to put convoy points in the bay of Biscay.


What I like to do is the following.


Ship 2 resources from Australia to Canada, which takes 10 CP (2 each in Tasman, New Zealand Coast, Polynesia, Clarion, Mexican Coast)

This allows you to ship 6 from Canada to the UK, which takes 18 CP (6 each in east coast, north Atlantic, Faeroes Gap)

3 are shipped in from Venezuela, for 12 CP (3 each in Caribbean, East coast, North Atlantic, Faeroes Gap)

2 from Br Guyana, for 8 CP. (2 each in Mouths of the Amazon, central Atlantic, north Atlantic, Faeroes Gap.)

Ship 3 from South Africa+1 from Belgian Congo for 20 CP (4 each in Gulf of Guinea, Cape Verde Basin, Cape St Vincent, North Atlantic, Faeroes Gap.)

This gives full production for 68 CP, more than your own setup, but I think it's safer, without leaving so many CP out in the bay of Biscay. You can start freeing up convoys by attacking Portugal, which both gives a resource that's easy to transport, as well as giving a resource that's easy to transport. Another good assault is to go after Dakar. Once you have those, you can drop the Australian convoy line and ship those, railing the Canadian resources to Canadian factories.

As for your secondary obligations, I like to ship the 2 oil from the NEI to India, and have 2 CP each in the Arabian Sea and the Persian gulf, ready to ship BP to the Soviet Union. You'll want 9 CP on hand to ship 3 BP in from the UK. Go hit Syria ASAP to rail the Persian oil down to Egypt.



Actually, this isn't great. I'm used to having the French CP to lean on, as well as having more presence in atlantic land bases. (Hit Portugal, hit portugal!) About the closest I can think of is if you play with reflag the merchant ships, scream to the U.S. to give you 15 of theirs. You also won't be able to do much LL to the Soviets until the U.S. does their options, and since there's an 80% chance that Resources to the U.S.S.R. will preclude the full Lend Lease option, you don't need the convoys *right* away, which gives you time to hit Dakar/Portugal and free up some convoy points for the lend lease barbeque.


Anyway, hope it isn't too useless,

Best wishes,
Ur_Vile_Wedge.

This is how this convoy setup looks in MWIF. Thank you very much for the effort. I appreciate it.

I am sorry that it took me so long to set it up.




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 440
RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 4/18/2011 6:58:57 PM   
Extraneous

 

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Unfortunately the map doesn't show your rail lines.



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(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 441
RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 4/18/2011 7:16:53 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

Unfortunately the map doesn't show your rail lines.



The program works out the rail line connections. The player just needs to indicate which resource, which factory, and can then start putting in the sea areas.

EDIT: If you really want to know the full path, including rail lines, then there is a tabular listing for that. It can also be 'animated' in that the program will center the detailed map on each hex & sea area in the path in turn.

< Message edited by Shannon V. OKeets -- 4/18/2011 7:17:45 PM >


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(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 442
RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 4/18/2011 10:04:04 PM   
Extraneous

 

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ADG WiF also had the tabular listing of "Rail Lines". Personally I found it cumbersome with unnecessarily repetitive information, which could have been handled with an optional table sort.

Using the tabular display of “Rail Lines” doesn’t let you know if enemy units are about to cut your “Rail Lines” unless you know they are there.


Visually showing the "Rail Lines" at the same time with the "Convoy Lines" used would make setup easier without having to bounce back and forth between a tabular display and visual display.


I don’t expect you to make this kind of change at this late date. Like I said it is unfortunate the map doesn't show the “Rail Lines”.




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Post #: 443
RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 4/25/2011 6:22:32 PM   
composer99


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If the map you are referring to is the one used to display convoy lines, then I believe it is much too large-scale to show rail lines.

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Post #: 444
RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 4/25/2011 10:27:38 PM   
Extraneous

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

If the map you are referring to is the one used to display convoy lines, then I believe it is much too large-scale to show rail lines.


So you’re saying that you can show the convoy connections between sea zones but are unable to show the connections through countries?

The countries could be handled exactly like a sea zone with a number in a box showing the number of resources shipped through the country in question.



Since “Rail Lines” are only notated on the tabular list here is another problem for you.

quote:

13.6.1 Resources
Transporting resources by sea

A side can only ship 5 resources a turn into, and/or out of, each minor port.


What if you attempt to more than 5 resources through a minor port? Is there a message advising that you are attempting to exceed capacity?


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Post #: 445
RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 4/25/2011 10:37:10 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous


quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

If the map you are referring to is the one used to display convoy lines, then I believe it is much too large-scale to show rail lines.


So you’re saying that you can show the convoy connections between sea zones but are unable to show the connections through countries?

The countries could be handled exactly like a sea zone with a number in a box showing the number of resources shipped through the country in question.



Since “Rail Lines” are only notated on the tabular list here is another problem for you.

quote:

13.6.1 Resources
Transporting resources by sea

A side can only ship 5 resources a turn into, and/or out of, each minor port.


What if you attempt to more than 5 resources through a minor port? Is there a message advising that you are attempting to exceed capacity?


Once a port's capacity has been reached, the port is no longer considered a possible node on the resource's path to its destination.

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Post #: 446
RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 4/25/2011 10:58:32 PM   
Extraneous

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous


quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

If the map you are referring to is the one used to display convoy lines, then I believe it is much too large-scale to show rail lines.


So you’re saying that you can show the convoy connections between sea zones but are unable to show the connections through countries?

The countries could be handled exactly like a sea zone with a number in a box showing the number of resources shipped through the country in question.



Since “Rail Lines” are only notated on the tabular list here is another problem for you.

quote:

13.6.1 Resources
Transporting resources by sea

A side can only ship 5 resources a turn into, and/or out of, each minor port.


What if you attempt to more than 5 resources through a minor port? Is there a message advising that you are attempting to exceed capacity?


Once a port's capacity has been reached, the port is no longer considered a possible node on the resource's path to its destination.



How do players know this has occured are they informed of this?


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Post #: 447
RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 4/26/2011 1:49:48 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous


quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

If the map you are referring to is the one used to display convoy lines, then I believe it is much too large-scale to show rail lines.


So you’re saying that you can show the convoy connections between sea zones but are unable to show the connections through countries?

The countries could be handled exactly like a sea zone with a number in a box showing the number of resources shipped through the country in question.



Since “Rail Lines” are only notated on the tabular list here is another problem for you.

quote:

13.6.1 Resources
Transporting resources by sea

A side can only ship 5 resources a turn into, and/or out of, each minor port.


What if you attempt to more than 5 resources through a minor port? Is there a message advising that you are attempting to exceed capacity?


Once a port's capacity has been reached, the port is no longer considered a possible node on the resource's path to its destination.



How do players know this has occured are they informed of this?


Nothing special is done. How do players handle it in an over-the-board game?

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Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 448
RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 4/26/2011 1:46:31 PM   
Extraneous

 

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You look at the map.

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Post #: 449
RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 4/26/2011 7:22:21 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 18411
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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

You look at the map.

Yep. Same in MWIF.

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Post #: 450
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