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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips!

 
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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 11/7/2005 1:38:42 AM   
MarkShot


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Here is a view using the ammo display for the unit info box. Light gray is fully stocked with ammo. You see that the situation although worrisome is not immediately critical.




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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 11/7/2005 2:07:26 AM   
MarkShot


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Tip: Consider turning off routine messages by setting your global message filter to urgent. With the new supply system, you get blasted with so many supply related messages that it is very easy to miss messages for arriving reinforcements and airstrikes. Both have a time critical element. The former has order delays waived for 59 minutes and the latter is only available for 20 minutes.

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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 11/7/2005 11:04:22 PM   
tukker

 

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Found that one out the hard way already

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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 11/8/2005 2:03:53 AM   
MarkShot


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Tukker,

Don't feel bad. The School of Hard Knocks produces some very fine graduates! :)

---

Tip: When approaching a scenario where you are on the defensive, besides examining enemy approaches, terrain, and your force structure; make sure to check the deployment status of your units via the deployment unit info box (F5 key).

There may be times that despite what your optimal plan calls for that you find units already dug-in or entrenched. Entrenching could easily take a day or more (I do not have exact figures available) and is a significant force multiplier. Thus, such units would be very hard for an enemy to dislodge. So, when you observe such deployments try to work them into your plan as opposed to discarding all the effort your troops made to prepare their positions before you arrived on the field.

Below is an example of such a unit (see unit info box and see deployment status in the left panel).




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< Message edited by MarkShot -- 11/8/2005 2:08:03 AM >


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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 11/8/2005 2:13:13 AM   
MarkShot


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Tip: Two good ways to review your implemented plan before starting a battle.

(1) "=" key will show all units having orders and use the mouse to drag select the entire map. That's your entire plan.

(2) To see just the high level stuff. Try the "2" key which will show all HQ units and use the mouse to drag select the entire map. Since HQ unit orders usual represent the large battle force orders, this will filter out micro-managed arty/mortars, micro-managed support weapons, and single unit recon missions. Thus, leaving you with just the big picture.

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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 11/8/2005 2:43:25 AM   
MarkShot


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The AI when generating orders on your behalf works in steps. This is most noticeable for orders such as attack, but occurs with other orders as well. Thus, you must be patient, since the AI apparently not following your orders is just due to you looking at an intermediate step.

For example, I have ordered this Bn to set up for a reverse slope defense in some dead space (see the parameters on the left panel and the yellow footprint template). However, it looks like the AI is ignoring me here.




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< Message edited by MarkShot -- 11/8/2005 2:47:03 AM >


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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 11/8/2005 2:44:53 AM   
MarkShot


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Now, one minute later on the clock. And you can see the AI has issued new implicit orders which conform to my intentions as the commander. The previous screen shot was just an intermediate step.




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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 11/8/2005 3:26:40 AM   
MarkShot


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I only learned this recently myself.

I always had the impression that when you see the engagement status box on the counter (bottom right) as white (meaning surrender) that the commander of the unit was waiving a white flag and looking to surrender his command. And I always found it odd that the unit would move around quite a bit and not actually surrender to the enemy.

Well, I recently found out that it means that some of the personel are surrendering and not necessarily the entire unit. It's more analogous to casualties and strength being lost.

Sadly, this unit is one of mine. The Luftwaffe keeps hitting them with air strikes!




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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 11/8/2005 11:36:06 PM   
JeF


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Mark,

I finally found some time to read through all this this morning and you're still managing to post more. We'll never be able to follow.

Good work as always Mark. The big screenshots are a good idea. The "zoomed in" ones... maybe not : to pixellated.
As pictures are worth thousands words, you manage to write to much as usual.

As I wrote to you yesterday, CotA seems sufficiently different from HttR that seasoned players like me might learn a few things by reading your tips and it is the case. I even saw that Dave learned how his game was working.

Seems a very fun battle to play and I'm really looking forward to play it.

BTW, what was the historical outcome of the battle ?

JeF.

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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 11/8/2005 11:58:12 PM   
JeF


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And now my reactions :
quote:

ORIGINAL: MarkShot
For those who are interested, this scenario took me roughly about 4-5 hours to play. This includes thinking time, playing time, making some notes, making save games for later use, and chatting with other beta testers.

You shouldn't be afraid by this 4-5 hours figure. Normally one day in the game play in roughly an hour. That is for HttR and on a sub-GHz machine. 2 days scenario in one sitting are very feasible.

quote:

For those of you who have read my HTTR guides, you know that I am very fond of time tables, recon, carefully planned attacks with multiple axises of advance, etc... Well, you'll see none of that here. :)

Which prove once again that you can play this game in various ways. And, as Mark pointed out afterwards, even change style mid-game.

quote:

Finally, in this battle, I made extensive use of manually issuing fire missions to my arty bty. (the other alternative is to simply leave your arty under AI control) This was required and did have a decisive impact. Given the frequency and fluid nature of such orders, we will not consider these to represent new "order cycles", but instead I will just describe this aspect of the battle in broad strokes.

Great way to show how to deploy and use your arty decisively. I usually tend to be lazy and let the AI control my tubes. Not as efficient.

quote:

(2) In general, fatigue rates have been increased. For longer (time duration) operations, you are not going to be able to push a single force through days of hard action. Night fatigue rates have been increased to be more significant than they were in HTTR. Additionally, terrain slope will also play a role.

Nice touch. Though it will be a bit more difficult or the player. We'll need to be more carefull with our digital men.

quote:

Tip: If you let the AI control your arty and mortars, the ROF (rate of fire) will always be slow.

Really ? Can't you put your units on-call by assigning a defend order with the ROF you want ?
And if you choose a high ROF on an attack, won't the arty attached to the attacking formation use a high ROF ?

quote:

So, how long will it take for them to start acting on new orders. I would say about three hours.


Again, for newcomers, don't be afraid by the value. MarkShot likes to play with the highest setting (painfully realistic). Other settings will give you lower values, but it will never be zero. I never played past the "realistic" setting (ok maybe once to try it out). I ressent the world "painfuly" negatively.

quote:

Useful to decide whether COTA is the right investment for you?


No !
I was sold long ago.

quote:

Useful to help you to learn to play the game?


You bet !
Thanks again.

JeF.

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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 11/9/2005 12:03:47 AM   
JeF


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quote:

sterckxe:
The Germans raiding French gaz stations to get Michelin maps of the area and other such assorted stories are well-known.

For the sake of realism, I demand that "topo maps" are included in Estab (having one would help a unit in path finding and LOS), that Gas station are modeled on the map and that a new "Raid gas station" task is included.
Thanks in advance.

quote:

MarkShot:
(3) It does not require a two level game system coupling two disparate levels such as the Total War series, Close Combat 4/5, and the upcoming Combat Mission Campaigns.

It wouldn't hurt either.

JeF.

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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 11/9/2005 12:09:29 AM   
MarkShot


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JeF,

Good to hear from you!

ROF for bombard when done by the AI is always = LOW. Or put another way, the ROF parameter only applies to direct fire weapons unless you are giving a bombard order.

---

I thought if you completely turn off order delay, then you get practically instantaneous order response. In my opinion when you first get the game as a first time player, you should play a game or two like this just to see how the interface works.

---

Regarding arty usage: In the latest build I am now testing, an arty barrage alone on dug-in troops is less likely to cause them to displace. However, the same barrage on troops on the move is now more likely to shatter them.

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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 11/9/2005 12:39:05 AM   
MarkShot


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As I pointed out earlier, global messages are not stored in the save file.

Tip: If you get reinforcements or an air strike right before saving a gaming session to resume later, then you might want to write down the time of the event, since you will have no idea when you reload at what time the air strike or waived order delays for the reinforcements will expire.

Tip: It may also be good to jot down the time a key order is issued to a force, since it is not recorded anywhere, but you will need that base time in order to estimate when the order will be executed.

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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 11/9/2005 12:40:38 AM   
Arjuna


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Well actually Mark the casualty effect of arty on undeployed forces has not changed from HTTR to COTA per se. Rather we have toned down the casualty effect on deployed and dug in forces. Further we have increased the suppression effect across the board and we have modified the reactions units will take such that units already deployed or better are more likely ( not guaranteed ) to stay put rather than run away when under bombardment.

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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 11/9/2005 3:27:05 AM   
MarkShot


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A lesson I just learned from playing a scenario two times (First time, I surrended. Second, decisive victory.)

Situation: You are forced to attack in the face of heavy air and arty over open terrain.

Approach:

(1) During the day, dig-in and weather it as best you can.

(2) If it is not possible to be out of view of the enemy, then, at least, try to be reverse slope to limit the amount of direct fire which your positions will have to take.

(3) At night fall, attack. This eliminates the enemy's air support. Arty support will be diminished due to two factors. First, the enemy will experience greatly reduced LOS. Second, for units that close with the enemy his arty will be prohibited from bringing in fire so close.

(4) If the best happens, you might even be able to get dug-in partially unmolested before his air support returns the next morning.

(No screen shots as I don't want this thread to be full of spoilers, but for the AAR; rather just tips out of any particular context.)

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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 11/9/2005 3:32:45 AM   
Arjuna


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Good advice Mark. I would add that any covered terrain should be sought after during daylight as this will limit visibility for direct, arty and air strikes.

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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 11/9/2005 5:14:38 AM   
Fred98


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Do the maps change colour after dark to represent night time?

-


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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 11/9/2005 5:27:36 AM   
Fred98


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarkShot
Tip: If you get reinforcements or an air strike right before saving a gaming session to resume later, then you might want to write down the time of the event.......



This is a classic case for making use of computers to improve wargaming.

To add some kind of low quality text based note pad to the game. The note pad would be accessed via a menu and saved together with any save game file.

When you open the save game file the note is available to you.
-



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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 11/9/2005 6:26:53 AM   
MarkShot


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C:\WINDOWS\NOTEPAD.EXE

That will work fine and leave Dave and team devote their programing talents to the stuff that only they can do. :)

Yes, the map brightens and darkens with the sunrise and sunset. That's been in since HTTR.

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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 11/9/2005 6:45:51 AM   
Arjuna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe 98

quote:

ORIGINAL: MarkShot
Tip: If you get reinforcements or an air strike right before saving a gaming session to resume later, then you might want to write down the time of the event.......



This is a classic case for making use of computers to improve wargaming.

To add some kind of low quality text based note pad to the game. The note pad would be accessed via a menu and saved together with any save game file.

When you open the save game file the note is available to you.
-




Good idea.

TT2560 - UI - Add Notebook to Game and save with Saved Game


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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 11/9/2005 6:46:59 AM   
Arjuna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe 98

Do the maps change colour after dark to represent night time?

-



Yes. The map darkens at dusk and even more at night and lightens at dawn and even more at day.

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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 11/9/2005 7:54:09 AM   
Fred98


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Pause
Slow
Medium
Fast

and "R".

What is "R"?

If it is "Replay", is the Replay file a separate file. If it is it can be uploaded to fan's web sites, for others to download, to take the place of a traditional AAR







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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 11/9/2005 9:14:53 AM   
Arjuna


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RunFastUntil - lets you run the game as fast as possible till a specified time. It opens a dialog in which you set the time.

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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 11/9/2005 10:17:41 PM   
JeF


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarkShot
However, there are cases where the Win Meter will not accurately predict the ultimate outcome at game conclusion. (I forget the reasons for this.)


Maybe I can risk a little explanation here.

IIRC, the Win Meter takes into account the "occupation objectives" as if you would hold it till the end and grab all the remaining points, including the completion points. Maybe you will not hold it till the end.
There is also the case where the opponent can deny you an objective with a unit out of LOS (i.e you don't see it). I think such objectives are counted as captured (even by the Win Meter) but will show as contested (i.e no point) in the end.
And I don't know how your opponent current score impact the Win Meter as well. In the end it is the point difference that count I think. And you can never score more than 100 (or it has changed).

But Arjuna will soon come and tell you I'm wrong.

Finally I don't mind. Win Meter always indicate decisive defeat for me. He is sometimes wrong.

JeF.



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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 11/10/2005 12:12:02 AM   
Arjuna


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JeF,

Spot on mate!

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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 11/10/2005 4:07:04 PM   
MarkShot


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quote:

ORIGINAL: loyalcitizen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arjuna
Due to overall fatigue levels and the destruction of the bridges I order the 141st Regt to Rest with the elements of the 2nd Bn to Defend on the other side. I am also forced to rest the 143rd as it too ran out of puff.


You started the 143rd attack from over 4km away from the objective. Would you say that is a typical attack distance in the game? Have I been trying to form up too close to the enemy all these years? I try to limit my attacks to 2km or less.


FUP considerations is a lengthy topic. Some of the issues were touched upon in my HTTR threads.

In terms of COTA, I think that most players are going to find themselves FUPing closer to the attack task marker than they might have in HTTR. Due to:

(1) Increased fatigue rates.

(2) Slower movement rates.

Additionally, there may be less choice to the axis of an attack than HTTR. Due to:

(1) Impassable terrain.

(2) Being much more constrained to use roads to approach.

(3) Keeping the assault force's resupply line open.

Finally, I have yet to play the full set of scenarios, but FUPing may also be more painful than HTTR, since the maps seem to have less cover.

I haven't really compared the amount of arty in scenarios, but with HTTR in some of the larger scenarios it was so thick that it was debilitating.

< Message edited by MarkShot -- 11/10/2005 4:13:36 PM >


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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 11/10/2005 11:06:28 PM   
MarkShot


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When you have paused the game for an air strike and you identify an enemy unit to hit and it is on the move, then how can you estimate its path of movement without letting the game run?

F5 - display facing as it shows the direction of movement.

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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 11/10/2005 11:10:23 PM   
MarkShot


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Actually, now that I think about it, simply clicking on the unit should give you facing (direction of travel) too. Silly, me.

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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 11/12/2005 11:01:59 PM   
MarkShot


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Some thoughts on what a single company can accomplish when a road block is not feasible ...

If a single company gets time (2-4 hours) and the right terrian (woods or town), it can set up quite a formidable road block for motorized forces. This is has been covered in the past posts. Additionally, it was mentioned how in COTA due to off road movement rates for vehicles that this will be more effective than it was in HTTR.

However, what to do when you only have time, but the road passes through clear terrain? Here is what you can do, but note that this is going to work best in daylight, since you are not actually going to create a road block.

Take your company and find some decent cover not too far (0.5-1.5km) from the road. It would also be good if this position is somewhat elevated. Dig-in there.

Although this will not stop the enemy, it will really slow them down. Slowing them down is often good enough to run them out of time they need to accomplish their objectives and/or buy time for your troops to get somewhere and dig-in.

Why is this going to work?

(1) If you can bring fire on columns moving down the road, then the enemy commander will be obliged to shake out into a better defensive formation. This will take some time. However, most importantly once the enemy does this, it could be 3-5 hours before they form up into road column again (even if there is no more threat). So, you have probably, at a minimum, bought yourself a few hours.

(2) Once the enemy shakes out into a better defensive formation, then his movement rate is going to be significantly degraded due to off road travel. This could cause him to perhaps suffer as much as a 75% degradation in his movement rate.

(3) If the enemy commander deems that your position is strong enough, he may even elect to assault it. Stopping and assaulting your position could easily cost 2-4 hours.

(4) Finally, if your company can call in mortar or artillery fire, then they may even succeed in routing some enemy units and holding their position for quite a while against vastly superior numbers.

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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 11/17/2005 1:02:46 PM   
BK6583

 

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Mark,

Your excellent online tutorial for HTTR (as well as the equally excellent strategy guide) really helped me get into this wonderful game. I do have a question (or a belated "Tips" recommendation for COTA). Is there any way to code the AI to employ/deploy its artillery any better? Right now I would say that that is the AI's biggest failing in what is otherwise a very good (dare I say perhaps the best wargame AI out there?) opponent. But geez, it gets really stupid with its artillery. I've had to make my own house rule to not fire on AI artillery that's sitting on clear terrain in plain view or which sometimes even appears to join right in with the rest of its forces conducting an assault.

Bob

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