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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips!

 
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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 1/13/2006 12:53:07 AM   
Banquet

 

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Wow, looks good

130 pages.. me like!

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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 1/13/2006 7:25:53 PM   
Txema

 

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I have been able to download the "HTTR Mini-Guide", but I can´t get a valid COTA guide... I always get a corrupted zip file... Can you check it, please?

Thanks for your help !!!


Txema

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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 1/13/2006 7:42:29 PM   
MarkShot


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I just downloaded and checked. I got a completed FTP session, valid zip, and readable PDF. Maybe try it again later. If that doesn't work, I'll arrange another location just for you.

Keep me posted. (I'll be out for the rest of the day.)

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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 1/14/2006 3:08:46 AM   
Arjuna


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I downloaded it and it worked fine. Sounds like your connection. Best to cycle your router/reboot and try again.

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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 1/14/2006 1:16:06 PM   
Txema

 

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You are right !!!

It was a problem with my connection. Today I have been able to download it properly.

Thanks for your help !!!


Txema

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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 1/19/2006 2:08:26 AM   
MarkShot


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quote:

ORIGINAL: barbarossa2

...
P.S. Mark Shot, how do you overcome the "launch time" coordination problem I posted in the "CotA New Features" section. Is there a way to plan sufficiently to get around this problem so every one attacks at the same time??? I want to start a thread on this problem out here, on the "home page" where it belongs.
...



I just reread your comments about coordinating separate attacks.

{First, I think the supply system adds a lot more to the game than you realize. It changes planning and tactics considerably.}

I had also made the same request for coordinating attacks quite a while ago.

As of now, the only way to achieve truly coordinated separate attacks is to perform a complex attack with no FUP. To be precise, this means:

(1) Only setting a single task marker, the attack marker, and no waypoints.

(2) Ordering it at the brigade level or higher. (Complex attack means that there is more than one level of HQs involved.)

The AI will then select one or more FUPs and axis of attack as it deems appropriate. This will give you the simultaneous launch you are looking for.

In the absence of doing that, here is how I see it:

(1) I don't really think of the battle planning day in 24 hours. I tend to think of it in 5 divisions: Morning, afternoon, evening, post-sunset, and pre-dawn. Each division has its particular use. Some examples:

Morning: good for an attack where you have such things as CAS, arty, and armor. All of these things depend on visibility.

Post-Sunset: good for an attack where the enemy has CAS, arty, and armor. Negate the affect of his long range and stand off fire.

Pre-Sunrise: you will benefit from visibility, but you want to close to contact while minimizing casualties and disruption.

You get the picture.

So, these divisions represent 5hr+ windows. Much less precise than a 24hr clock, but good enough for practical planning.

(2) Now, given that you will have an accurate force delay (only if orders have propagated fully at least one time) value to work with and familiarity with how long things take, you should be able to hit a particular window in timing your attack.

(3) In practice, it doesn't seem that the difference of a couple of hours is going to make a huge difference. Over any reasonable distance for the assault, even starting at exactly the same time, variable movement rates and terrain along with the amount of resistance encountered will probably throw off the close coordination of attacks.

(4) In COTA, multi-axis attacks are going to be more challenging than HTTR, since roads will play a much bigger role and also making sure that your forces remain in supply.

I hope that provided you with some assistance.

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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 1/26/2006 5:07:45 PM   
MarkShot


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CarpeNoctem

Maybe this should be attn. to MarkShot but I'd like anyone to chime in with hints and tips concerning forms, notes, guides and other helpers.

Let me define: I am looking for existing forms that can be useful in analyzing a scenario or planning an operation. For example: In the SG (strategy guide) it contains a very good portion on planning. In it, it seems these ideas can be form filled to an extent. I.e. Each deduction may be the result of listing the objectives, and objective details. Also, something to encompass the forces involved, and terrain.

Maybe I am grasping at straws here, but I was wondering if someone uses something like these 'forms' to assist them in the planning, option selection and execution.

Thanks,

CN


I thought about the question here. I came to the following conclusions:

(1) Producing a procedure for battle planning at the high level may lead to something which is fairly obvious to many players.

(2) Producing a procedure for battle planning at the low level would rapidly degenerate into a complex exercise of branching choices, prioritization, and iteration. Such a procedure might well be good for development of a computer program, but probably not be practical for player adoption.

(3) Aside from the high level analysis mentioned in Item #1, the process of battle planning is largely a matter of pattern recognition. Meaning that the current problem is compared to categories of previous problems faced, categorized, and then a routine solution is chosen and tailored. This process improves and evolves as a result of the volume and variety of the player's experience; meaning more cases from which to derive and refine patterns. Examples of patterns are: delaying/falling back scenario with an non-motorized infantry heavy force, prepared defense scenario in wooded terrain against a mechanized/motorized enemy, assault over open ground critically dependent upon bridges, ...

(4) Similar to the analysis in Item #3, the implementation of the solution is a matter of construction done from a set of fairly elemental and familiar components. Examples of components are: a road block, recon, a picket/screen line, passage of lines on withdrawing, assemblying an arty fire base, reverse slope dug-in defense, deploying support weapons, ...

---

Having said the above, I think it might be an interesting and productive exercise to try to develop a planning procedure checklist. So, I will come back to this when I get a chance.

Beyond that, the next interesting question would be "How to determine when and how to revise a plan once the battle has begun?" This may be an even more challenging problem to address.

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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 1/26/2006 5:23:27 PM   
MarkShot


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Looking at Items #3 and #4, I have also realized that the practice of playing HTTR/COTA in some ways has become highly reflexive ... quite similar in fashion to how I used play air combat flight sims online. I am actually quite suprised by this, since HTTR/COTA in SP doesn't really have the time critical pressures that flying online imposes.

That is not to say that there isn't much methodology behind plan construction, battle monitoring, and plan revision. Rather it is all done smoothly with little introspection. The introspection mainly comes about by having to add to these mini-guide threads and stuff. :)

Hmm ...

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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 1/26/2006 8:57:22 PM   
MarkShot


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I decided to do this as a MS Word file (maybe later converted to a PDF). If this comes out good, then maybe make this available as a download as opposed to being buried at Page 10 of this thread. Of course, if Dave likes it, there is always the possibility of inclusion in the manual. (I am going to have a small section in the COTA manual for top tips for those players who would rather not read the combined 300+ pages in the HTTR/COTA Mini-Guide threads.)

Below (next post) is a sample of where I am going with the checklist (may not reformat well into HTML). I have completed the detailed expansion up to Item #4. I'll probably get it done over the next week.

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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 1/26/2006 8:57:47 PM   
MarkShot


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(contents deleted as the completed document was posted in a later message)

< Message edited by MarkShot -- 2/16/2006 12:42:42 AM >


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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 1/26/2006 9:40:06 PM   
sterckxe


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Hi,

It may be buried on page 10 of the thread, but I'm still reading it

You forgot point #0 on the battle planning check list : in MP, don't worry about points #1-#10 if you play Gary as you'll lose anyway

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx


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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 1/26/2006 11:35:08 PM   
Arjuna


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This reminds me of when I was studying for my Captains exams and I was somewhat daunted by the factor checklists that were handed out to all the students on the course (volumes of text and diagrams, enough to make tired eyes glaze over I can assure you ). Then I was fortunate enough to receive some very good advice from one of the Major instructors. He said the most important thing to do is to sort out the relevant factors from all the data. To do that use the "so what" test - ie if you are looking at a particular factor like enemy has tanks, ask yourself "so what" if the answer is not some concrete task you have to or should not perform ( or a condition or trigger for a concrete task ) then ignore it.

Eg. The enemy has lots of infantry. So what? I better be careful. This is a motherhood statement not a concrete task. So ignore it.

Eg2. The enemy has lots of infantry and I have only tanks. So what? Then avoid the covered approach to the objective as my tanks will be highly vulnerable there - choose the open approach where my tanks can use their long range firepower and be less vulnerable. This is a relevant factor because it results in eliminating an option.

The art in operational warfare comes in being able to readily see the wood amongst the forest of trees, to know what factors are relevant in what circumstances. As Markshot says, with expereience a good commander learns to recognise the patterns and the required responses.

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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 1/26/2006 11:42:15 PM   
Arjuna


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Oh and one other thing about the "so what" test. You can use it recursively to interrogate and hone in on the relevance of a particular factor. Eg. The enemy has concentrated his forces on the right. So what? He can attack from this sector. So what? I need to reinforce this sector? So What? I don't have any avaialable reserves? So what? I need to create a reserve? So what? The best place to do so would be from the left, where the enemy is weakest. So what? I will task the 2nd Panzer Regt positioned behind Komma to move behind the Sperkhios crossing and prevent the enemy from breaking through. And so on...

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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 1/27/2006 1:23:20 AM   
wodin


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Arjuna thats a great tip. Thanks

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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 1/27/2006 1:55:56 AM   
Banquet

 

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Ah, the 'so what?' principle. I must try that. It certainly sounds better than my current 'oh sh*t!' principle!

< Message edited by Banquet -- 1/27/2006 1:58:00 AM >

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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 1/27/2006 11:17:02 AM   
RayWolfe

 

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Yeees,
My "So What" activities are more like:
I'm losing big time.
So What?
End game.
So What?
That way I never lose.
So What
Ray

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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 2/8/2006 11:41:35 PM   
MarkShot


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Here we see a reverse slope DENY CROSSING task work very nicely. This was the pivotal juncture as the Germans raced against the clock here. If they had made this crossing, they might have barreled down the highway largely unimposed and possible stood a chance of stopping the main body of Allied defenders who are making a calculated withdrawal 20km to the South East. Now, whatever alternate route South they come up with, will be too time time consuming and wearing for them to accomplish their mission.

Why did this work so well? The reverse slope was the key. Despite the sizeable enemy force, no one had LOS to the engineers dug in at the bridge. What we see here is that only a single enemy engineering unit cresting the hill got sight of them. Thus, although the enemy could have easily overwhelmed them, no indirect or direct fire was brought to bare in order to supress them. The enemy did not know they were there and therefore ran into them almost by accident as opposed to having organized an intentional assault. So, my engineers had a fairly easy time blowing the bridge when the time came.

Checkmate ...




Attachment (1)

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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 2/8/2006 11:46:06 PM   
MarkShot


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By the way, I apologize for not having completed the Battle Planning Checklist. Haven't been feeling too well as of late. One of these days I hope to come back to it.

In the meantime, you can use Dave's "So what?" test.

Situation: The enemy has me surrounded and is offering me terms.
Test: So what?
Response: I'll just go back to the main menu and start a new game! :)

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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 2/8/2006 11:59:58 PM   
MarkShot


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A little tip about the pathing tools.

Of course, one way you can use them is to see how the AI might interpret your movement orders. Thus, you can determine if you need to tailor the route with some additional waypoints.

However, another way to use them is when the enemy's axis of advance is obvious, but the particular route they will take is non-obvious. Also, when you have no possible choke points and very limited forces at your disposal. In other words, you need to gamble. But how are you going to make the call? Well then, try the pathing tools and when in doubt assume that the enemy will take the quickest route. The pathing tools can be used to suggest the route the enemy will take.

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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 2/16/2006 12:48:15 AM   
MarkShot


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As requested about a month ago, I have completed my COTA Battle Planning Checklist.

It follows in the next post. I have it as an MS Word 2000 file - much better formatted than the HTML post here shows. If any one wants it as such or PDF, I'll see if I can have Matrix host it.

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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 2/16/2006 12:49:00 AM   
MarkShot


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MarkShot’s COTA Battle Planning Checklist

01/26/06 (revised on 02/18/06)

Purpose

This document represents a checklist of factors a player should take into consideration when performing the initial analysis and planning for a battle. (95% of these factors would also be appropriate for HTTR planning as well.)

The List

1. Scenario Duration – You will need this to tailor your plan accordingly.

2. Briefings – Read both the general briefing and your side specific briefing. You are looking for information on the OPFOR. Although information on your own side may be interesting. Certainly, it is available in greater detail elsewhere. In particular, see if you can answer the following questions.

a. What is the size of the enemy forces?

b. What is the condition of the enemy forces (fatigue, ammo, supply)?

c. What is the main composition of the enemy forces (armor, mechanized, motorized, on foot)?

d. How much artillery and air support does the enemy enjoy?

e. When and where may enemy reinforcements enter the battle?

f. What type of reinforcements is the enemy expecting?

g. The briefing may provide you some clue as to what the enemy considers important. Scenario objectives may be asymmetric between the two sides. For example, both sides may be attempting to exit at the same location. Thus, you would need to both defend this location and exit at the same time.

3. Objectives – Review the objectives both from the game map and also from the side panel. Pay attention to the following questions.

a. What are the primary objectives? (meaning the ones that if they are achieved you might ignore others)

b. Are the minor objectives sufficiently numerous that their combined effect could be critical to the scoring?

c. What is the nature of the objectives? Are they awarded on scenario completion or as a result of occupation? When do they activate and when do they expire?

d. For an exit objective, how many units and of what types are needed to satisfy it?

e. For secure or deny crossing objectives are the associated crossing points primed or not?

f. How do the position of the objectives relate to one another and the initial forces on the map? Are the primary objectives widely scattered or tightly clustered? Is there a natural progression from one major objective to another?

g. What theme is the scenario designer trying to convey with the objectives (as this will help you conceptualize your plan better)? On first glance, the objectives all just show up as points on a map. Sequences of objectives could represent phase lines for a withdrawal or a delaying action. Sequences of objectives could represent the expected progression of an attack. Low valued objectives strung along a road often represent the need to maintain a supply line. Etc…

h. What emphasis is placed on destroying the enemy? When the emphasis is high this allows a certain freedom to ignore objectives and work on massing fire power for a kill zone as opposed to distributing it widely.

4. Enemy Intel OOB – Although an actual OOB will not be available, the initial intel for the enemy displayed on the map should provide some useful clues. Here are some questions to consider.

a. What is the size of the enemy forces?

b. What is the main composition of the enemy forces (armor, mechanized, motorized, on foot)?

c. What is the national identity of the troops?

d. Are there any specific unit locations which should be noted? Like engineering units which are securing bridges.

5. Initial Own OOB – Review the OOB via the OOB tab, the unit tabs, and the map. Look to answer the following.

a. What is the size of your initial forces?

b. What is the organization of your initial forces? Neatly balanced battalions or brigades with organic support units? Light battalions or brigades with support units mainly attached at higher levels? Less generic specially constructed battle groups?

c. What type of units compose your forces (armor, mechanized, motorized, or on foot)?

d. How much arty do you have at your disposal? What is their reach relative to the size of the map, the distance to the objectives, and likely engagement areas?

e. How are you set for support weapons such as heavy machine gun, anti-tank artillery, flak, infantry gun, tank destroyer, assault gun units?

f. What other specialty units do you have? Engineers and Bridge Building unit?

g. What are the strengths and weaknesses of your units and their commanders?

h. Are there any explicit recon units included in the OOB? Usually these will be light tank and armored car units.

6. Own Reinforcements – Review the reinforcement tab and the map locations which are highlighted when you select them. Questions you should get the answer to include the following.

a. When will reinforcements arrive? Group them into rough time segments.

b. Is the particular reinforcement a complete force or elements of a larger force all arriving in close proximity of time and space?

c. Where will the reinforcements arrive?

d. What type of units are arriving (armor, motorized infantry, mechanized infantry, foot infantry, arty, …)?

e. What is the size of the force arriving? Company, Battalion, Brigade, or Division?

* NOTE: Once the reinforcements arrive, you should go back and apply the questions noted in #5 to them.

7. Terrain and Road Network Analysis – Study the map and answer the following questions.

a. What are dominant defensible terrain features that permit control of various sections of the map? Often these are wooded areas and towns.

b. Are any of the key terrain features further enhanced by being elevated?

c. What elevated locations permit exceptionally good spotting across sections of the map?

d. What areas contain dead space (line of sight shadows) which would be appropriate for reverse slope tactics or hide movement?

e. What terrain features provide natural defensive boundaries? These often include bodies of water. Additionally woods, polder, and steep terrain may serve this purpose when it comes to motorized units.

f. Where are the bridges, tunnels, and crossing points? What are the capacity of these?

g. Are any of the bridges, tunnels, or crossing points primed with for demolition?

h. Where do the roads run?

i. What are the major road junctures?

j. Where do the roads pass through impassable bordering terrain like forest or water?

k. Where do the roads pass through built up areas?

8. Own Force Disposition – Use the OOB and map to examine your units via both the tabs and unit info box. Answers to the following will prove to be useful.

a. Are my units ready to fight? They might not be if they are suffering from exhaustion, low cohesion, low on supplies, etc…

b. Are my commands widely geographically dispersed or they tightly assembled and ready to begin operations?

c. Have my units prepared their positions already? Are they dug-in, entrenched or even fortified?

9. Enemy Intel Force Disposition – Use the map to examine the enemy units displayed. Look for the following information.

a. Where is the enemy located?

b. What is the deployment status of the enemy? Is the enemy on the move or is the enemy in prepared positions?

10. Strategic Plan Formulation – Here you put forth your vision to win the battle. It may be a detailed plan which covers the entire battle or it may only be an initial plan which depends on seeing how the situation evolves. However, your plan should answer the following questions.

a. Have you identified what are the key features of the map that you must control in order to achieve victory? Can you answer why these are the key features?

b. Have you determined a sequence of actions relative to the key features of the map that will allow you to step from one key feature to the next?

c. Have you considered what you will you do if you turn out to be unable to secure a particular key feature or fail to defend a key feature?

d. Does your plan take into consideration the particular type of units you have and their specific capabilities? Does it take into consideration the composition of the enemy’s force?

e. Does your plan integrate its orientation toward terrain features with the actual objectives which must be satisfied for victory?

f. Has your plan incorporated how your reinforcements will feed into it?

g. Have you identified fire bases for your arty?

h. Have you identified good deployment areas for your support weapons?

i. Have you foreseen what recon will be necessary so that you will not be operating in the dark?

j. Does your plan consider what roads you will need and lines of communications for yourself and the enemy?

k. Are day/night cycles of high and low visibility properly utilized to best advantage?

l. What specifics should be communicated with your orders? Should an attack be a protracted affair with multiple efforts being made or should everything be committed in a maximal effort?

m. Have you picked the best units and commanders for the specific tasks to which they are assigned?

11. Scheduling – A key aspect of creating a schedule for a plan is that it represents milestones by which certain events need to have been achieved. Failure to stay on schedule is a clear indication that a plan is failing. Some questions to when reviewing your plan are listed below.

a. Does the schedule allow adequate time for movement of forces?

b. Does the schedule allow adequate time for order delays?

c. Does the schedule allow adequate time for the ebb and flow of combat?

d. Does the schedule allow some slack for the unexpected?

e. Does the schedule allow adequate time for resupply?

f. Does the schedule allow adequate time for units to recover from forced marches and combat?

g. Does the schedule allow adequate time for units in a defensive role to dig-in?

12. Force and Unit Tasking – Your plan has been implemented in the game. Have you missed anything?

a. Are there any units without orders on the map?

b. Have you assigned your arty to a fire base if you are not leaving them in their organic formations?

c. Have units performing recon been detached and given separate orders?

d. Have your supply bases been told to setup in a secure location?

e. Does each initial aspect in your plan have one or more forces assigned to carry it out?

f. Did you use the path tools to test various paths to make sure that there will be no surprises?

g. Did you set parameters for facing, footprints, formation, movement, ROF, and level of effort consistent with your plan?

h. Have you assigned locations for senior HQs not immediately directing operations such that they are close to the action and also out of immediate danger?

Conclusion

I have put forward a lot of questions to be asked. The main focus of this document is for you as the commander to determine whether you have adequately prepared for the upcoming battle. It is not in the scope of this document to assist you in determining how to respond to the answers to the questions presented here. That has been covered, to some extent, in my mini-guides for HTTR and COTA.

Clearly, if you are losing your battles often and you fail to have answers to many of the Checklist’s question, then perhaps further preparation is called for on your part.

Good luck!

Addendum

The following is a relevant perspective on planning as presented by David O’Connor in response to my effort to form a checklist.

This reminds me of when I was studying for my Captains exams and I was somewhat daunted by the factor checklists that were handed out to all the students on the course (volumes of text and diagrams, enough to make tired eyes glaze over I can assure you ). Then I was fortunate enough to receive some very good advice from one of the Major instructors. He said the most important thing to do is to sort out the relevant factors from all the data. To do that use the "so what" test - ie if you are looking at a particular factor like enemy has tanks, ask yourself "so what" if the answer is not some concrete task you have to or should not perform ( or a condition or trigger for a concrete task ) then ignore it.

Eg. The enemy has lots of infantry. So what? I better be careful. This is a motherhood statement not a concrete task. So ignore it.

Eg2. The enemy has lots of infantry and I have only tanks. So what? Then avoid the covered approach to the objective as my tanks will be highly vulnerable there - choose the open approach where my tanks can use their long range firepower and be less vulnerable. This is a relevant factor because it results in eliminating an option.

The art in operational warfare comes in being able to readily see the wood amongst the forest of trees, to know what factors are relevant in what circumstances. As Markshot says, with expereience a good commander learns to recognise the patterns and the required responses.

Oh and one other thing about the "so what" test. You can use it recursively to interrogate and hone in on the relevance of a particular factor. Eg. The enemy has concentrated his forces on the right. So what? He can attack from this sector. So what? I need to reinforce this sector? So What? I don't have any avaialable reserves? So what? I need to create a reserve? So what? The best place to do so would be from the left, where the enemy is weakest. So what? I will task the 2nd Panzer Regt positioned behind Komma to move behind the Sperkhios crossing and prevent the enemy from breaking through. And so on...


< Message edited by MarkShot -- 2/19/2006 1:29:09 AM >


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Post #: 291
RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 2/25/2006 11:41:48 PM   
MarkShot


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--- Public service announcement ---

See first post of this thread in green text - Battle Planning Checklist.


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Post #: 292
RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 3/2/2006 10:56:39 AM   
JallaTryne


Posts: 234
Joined: 7/19/2004
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Hello
Thanks for a very useful AAR, I am looking forward to this game. Having played HTTR I have some questions. I only read the first 7 pages of this thread, and apologise if they have been addressed before.

LOS: Happy to see LOS Area. However, in HTTR I often wanted to set up my forces during night, and obviously in good postions. However, the LOS was showing only for night conditions. Is it possibly that LOS shows both day and night conditions, possible using different colors? That would be a huge help.

Ranges: Being so essential, I would actually like ranges to be shown when just selecting a unit. Especially for artillery and other support units. For other units, some kind of textual information about the weapons in that unit would suffice.

Messages: An option to have n lines of persistent messages is desireable. I often missed important ones due to heavy fighting in HTTR. Also, having important messages, like the destruction of a unit, fallback to next delay point, and especially reinforcements, be notified visually in the overview-map would be good. Much much better if clicking on the message take you directly to that position!

Sound: I know, it has nothing to do with tactics, but I would like a richer sound environment in COTA. More men shouting, orders yelled, etc. It enhance the playing experience.

Topography: This is probably stretching it, but an option to view contour lines. It would be easier to spot nice postions, which is vital. Soo often I found my units in a "hole" when I thought they were on an elevated ground. A waste, of cource. This in addition to the LOS Area :)

DOC: Is it possible to download this thread in .doc format, instead of .pdf? I would like to search for keywords.

The most exiting feature in COTA is the implementation of supply-routes. I am very happy for this addition! When is the game due?


Much regards
JT

(in reply to MarkShot)
Post #: 293
RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 3/2/2006 12:39:47 PM   
RayWolfe

 

Posts: 1548
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From: Kent in the UK
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A lot of what you're asking for is in the new game but I do want to ask you to reconsider your first request.
What you want are god-like powers. What commander could possibly jab a pin on a point on the map and say: What could I absolutly see if I were there? So we give a bit of help in the game and assume that the commander sent a runner there and reports back what he can see ... but now you're asking for what that runner might see in all conditions! This is ONLY a game but the developers are trying to create a feeling of being there, being in command and living with what would be available in reality.
So no, Arjuna, don't go there. keep it real.
Sorry, I can't support you on this JT* But I can confirm that your message and range desires will be met.
Cheers
Ray
*Oh, by the way on an English speaking forum it may be better to sign off JallaTryne rather than JT!

(in reply to JallaTryne)
Post #: 294
RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 3/2/2006 5:48:01 PM   
simovitch


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As far as topography goes... I believe that the contours are in fact shown, with the darker field representing the higher ground. To me this actually highlights the ground undulations better than a "line" contour would.

I'm currently digitizing an Ardennes Map for HttR off of a 1:50000 1944 map, and the high and low terrain is really standing out visually far better than I could comprehend on the topo with the contour lines. Incidentally, The rough terrain of the Ardennes is requiring me to use every elevation layer at 40m intervals... I can only imaginge the painfull work the data teams must have put into the Greece and Crete maps

Perhaps you mean having the ability to "freeze" the terrain layers (AutoCAD terms here) showing only the contour layers during game play?

I suppose that would be nice, but definitely not a deal breaker for me.

cheers

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simovitch


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Post #: 295
RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 3/2/2006 6:13:13 PM   
sterckxe


Posts: 4601
Joined: 3/30/2004
From: Flanders
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quote:

ORIGINAL: simovitch

I'm currently digitizing an Ardennes Map for HttR off of a 1:50000 1944 map, and the high and low terrain is really standing out visually far better than I could comprehend on the topo with the contour lines. Incidentally, The rough terrain of the Ardennes is requiring me to use every elevation layer at 40m intervals... I can only imaginge the painfull work the data teams must have put into the Greece and Crete maps


Aha, so you got drafted :)

Drop me a line in the DDT forum if you need current digital maps of the area to check river names/town names - though I doubt you'll need it - you probably know them all by heart :)

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

(in reply to simovitch)
Post #: 296
RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 3/2/2006 6:59:49 PM   
simovitch


Posts: 4179
Joined: 2/14/2006
Status: offline
Eddy, yes, I've been drafted, but Bil hasn't given me any tasks yet, nor have I been given any access to the DDT forum or any beta testing tools (that I know of ). So right now I'm using the Httr editor to develop some scenarios for that engine, hopefully to breath some new life into HttR for some of the guys who are hungry for some new stuff to chew on.

I'm looking forward to seeing some of the digital Maps. Hopefully I can contribute something from my collection as well.

I'm sure Bil will contact me when he get's a moment to come up for air

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RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 3/2/2006 10:59:10 PM   
JeF


Posts: 1170
Joined: 4/1/2003
From: Belgium
Status: offline
Pictures are worth a thousand words.
About messages : http://www.wargamer.com/hosted/dropzone/games/cota_message_log.jpg
About ranges : http://www.wargamer.com/hosted/dropzone/games/cota_ranges.jpg

More illustrated features : CotA's page ( wargamer.com )

Cheers,

JeF.

< Message edited by JeF -- 3/2/2006 11:00:36 PM >


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(in reply to JallaTryne)
Post #: 298
RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 3/2/2006 11:09:57 PM   
JeF


Posts: 1170
Joined: 4/1/2003
From: Belgium
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JallaTryne
DOC: Is it possible to download this thread in .doc format, instead of .pdf? I would like to search for keywords.


As far as I can tell, you can do searches in PDF. Edit/Search (Ctrl+F) will do. At least it seem to work with my obsolete version of Acrobat. Where you looking for something more elaborated ?

OTOH, you could easily move the text, if not the images, to Word by SelectAll (Ctrl+A) / copy (Ctrl+C) and then paste (Ctrl+V) in Word. I did tried. You do it at your own risk.

I hope this helps,

JeF.

_____________________________

Rendez-vous at Loenen before 18:00.
Don't loose your wallet !
Conquest Of The Aegean Web Development Team
The Drop Zone

(in reply to JallaTryne)
Post #: 299
RE: COTA (mini-guide): Tutorial, AAR, and tips! - 3/3/2006 12:35:09 AM   
JallaTryne


Posts: 234
Joined: 7/19/2004
Status: offline
Thanks for all replies.

LOS: The LOS tool is a.. tool. It in part simulates the pre-planned effort of studying maps and other information to find suitable locations for units. Clearly, that is unaffected by time of day.

I would be happy if the LOS tool only considered topographical information, leaving myself figuring out effects of vegetation, weather and time of day. I am interested in what i can possibly see from an area, not the night-time scenary.

I am having serious trouble validating a LOS tool as "sending runners to a location". Instead it brigdes a games inability to give general orders as " go to area xxx, and find a suitable location to supress units in area yyy", with a command system that refers to points only, in what seems like a rather high-frequency map model.


Topographic: My impression from HTTR is that it is difficult to differentiate the color-grading, especially at night. A more discrete shading would serve the same purpose I guess. And the map for this AAR, I admit, seems to do that well enough. But maybe it is just the specifics of that map only?

The new system for messages looks good!

Hehe, to have ranges shown automatically when selecting a unit is really nit-picking, I know! Regardless, it would be a nice feature.

PDF: Ouch, I did not know that! Thanks for telling.


JT

(in reply to JeF)
Post #: 300
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