IMPORTANT: Huge undefended "empty" zone in AA coverage!

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Apollo11
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IMPORTANT: Huge undefended "empty" zone in AA coverage!

Post by Apollo11 »

Hi all,

Perhaps some/many of us failed to note that there exists _HUGE_ undefended "empty" zone in AA coverage!


"Nikademus" and "michaelm" tested and discovered the following:

The dead zone lies between (not surprisingly) 6K and 9K feet.

Guns with max of 26K feet have a min of 7K.
Guns with max of 28K feet have a min of 7K.
Guns with max of 30K feet have a min of 8K.
Guns with max of 34K feet have a min of 9K.


This was countered with great mod by "Nikademus" (along with tons of other fixes) but all player who play "vanilla" (i.e. original) WitP have to deal with this!


In this thread I will post what guns and what units are affected by this for both sides.


Leo "Apollo11"
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RE: IMPORTANT: Huge undefended "empty" zone in AA coverage!

Post by Apollo11 »

Hi all,

Dual Purpose (DP) Guns

Code: Select all

 Device  Name                  Ceiling
 -------------------------------------
 46      4.5in/45 QF Mk I Gun  41000
 47      5.25in/50 QF Gun      46500
 48      5in/40 Type 89 Gun    31000
 49      4.7in/45 10YT Gun     32800
 50      3.9in/65 Type 98 Gun  42650
 51      3.9in/50 Type 88 Gun  36750
 52      3in/60 Type 98 Gun    29850
 53      3in/40 Type 88 Gun    23600
 54      5in/25 Mk 10 Gun      27400
 55      5in/38 Mk 12 Gun      37200
 56      3in/50 Mk 10 Gun      29800
 57      4.7in/40 QF Gun       32000
 58      4.5in/45 QF Gun       41000
 59      4in/45 QF Mk V Gun    31000
 60      4in/45 QF Mk XVI Gun  39000
 61      4in/45 QF Mk XIX Gun  31000
 62      3.9in/45 M1931 Gun    39000
 63      3.5in/50 M1926 Gun    34800
 64      3in/50 M1922 Gun      32800
 276     105mm AA Gun          36000
 292     3in DP Gun            23600
 294     4.7in DP Gun          32000
 410     3in AA Gun            29800
 452     75mm CD Gun           29850
 453     120mm CD Gun          32000
 


Anti Aircraft (AA) Guns

Code: Select all

 Device  Name                  Ceiling
 -------------------------------------
 66      3in/20cwt AA Gun      25500
 67      88mm AA Gun           31000
 68      75mm AA Gun           25000
 69      25mm Type 96 AA Gun   18040
 70      13.2mm Type 93 AAMG   14800
 71      40mm 2pdr AA Gun      9900
 72      40mm Bofors AA Gun    22800
 73      20mm Oerlikon AA Gun  10000
 74      1.1in Mk 1 AA Gun     19000
 75      0.5in Browning M2 MG  14500
 76      2 pdr Mk VIII AA Gun  13000
 77      .303 Vickers  MG      6200
 78      37mm M1933 AA Gun     13000
 79      13.2mm AAMG           14800
 80      12.7mm AAMG           10300
 81      7.7mm Lewis MG        6200
 272     13mm AAMG (2)         13000
 273     25mm AA Gun (3)       14000
 274     40mm AA Gun (2)       14000
 275     75mm AA Gun           30000
 278     20mm AA/AT Gun        12000
 398     .303 Bren AAMG        6200
 399     .303 Lewis AAMG       6200
 400     Maxim AAMG (4)        6200
 401     12.7mm AAMG           12400
 402     Vickers AAMG (2)      8300
 403     0.5in Browning AAMG   14500
 404     20mm Oerlikon AA Gun  10000
 405     37mm 61-K AA Gun      20000
 406     37mm AA Gun           10500
 407     2pdr AA Gun (2)       9900
 408     40mm Bofors AA Gun    22800
 409     75mm AA Gun           28000
 411     3in/20cwt AA Gun      25500
 412     76mm AA Gun           29000
 413     80mm AA Gun           28000
 414     85mm KS-12 AA Gun     33000
 415     90mm AA Gun           33800
 416     3.7in AA Gun          32000
 


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RE: IMPORTANT: Huge undefended "empty" zone in AA coverage!

Post by Feinder »

Understand tho, that you do still take damage from the lighter guns tho, like 20mm and 40mm (which can be quite painful).

I most frequently fly my bombers at 6000', simply because it's useful vs. ships and AFs (no morale loss). And I -do- take flak damage (I guess from the lighter stuff).

-F-
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RE: IMPORTANT: Huge undefended "empty" zone in AA coverage!

Post by mc3744 »

ORIGINAL: Feinder

Understand tho, that you do still take damage from the lighter guns tho, like 20mm and 40mm (which can be quite painful).

I most frequently fly my bombers at 6000', simply because it's useful vs. ships and AFs (no morale loss). And I -do- take flak damage (I guess from the lighter stuff).

-F-

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RE: IMPORTANT: Huge undefended "empty" zone in AA coverage!

Post by Nikademus »

removal of the minimum altitude feature would, in all honesty, not make much, if any appreciable difference in the flak resolutions.


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RE: IMPORTANT: Huge undefended "empty" zone in AA coverage!

Post by WiTP_Dude »

Isn't working as designed? I've read that the big guns couldn't in many cases hit targets flying close to the ground.
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RE: IMPORTANT: Huge undefended "empty" zone in AA coverage!

Post by Nikademus »

Yes. Its not a bug. its a feature Gary built into the code. Personally I think its too high. BTR has one too but its around 2000-2500 feet. However AA in BTR as a whole behaves quite differently from WitP. I removed the min alt feature in my mod, but I had too in order for the changes i made to work and produce the desired effect. In the stock scenario, it wont greatly impact things by itself.
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RE: IMPORTANT: Huge undefended "empty" zone in AA coverage!

Post by Apollo11 »

Hi all,

IJA AA Units

Code: Select all

 Unit #  Name         Type
 --------------------------------
 974     31st         AA Regiment
 975     31st Heavy   AA Battalion
 976     32nd Heavy   AA Battalion
 985     11th         AA Regiment
 986     13th         AA Regiment
 987     15th         AA Regiment
 988     1st Reserve  AA Regiment
 989     3rd Reserve  AA Regiment
 990     11th Heavy   AA Battalion
 991     12th Heavy   AA Battalion
 1006    24th         AA Regiment
 1007    22nd         AA Regiment
 1008    25th         AA Regiment
 1009    4th Reserve  AA Regiment
 1020    1st          AA Regiment
 1021    2nd          AA Regiment
 1022    3rd          AA Regiment
 1023    4th          AA Regiment
 1024    5th          AA Regiment
 1025    7th          AA Regiment
 1026    2nd Reserve  AA Regiment
 1027    1st Heavy    AA Battalion
 1064    41st         AA Regiment
 1065    42nd         AA Regiment
 1066    5th Reserve  AA Regiment
 1067    6th Reserve  AA Regiment
 1068    41st Heavy   AA Battalion
 1080    51st         AA Regiment
 1081    8th Reserve  AA Regiment
 1082    50th Heavy   AA Battalion
 1158    22nd Heavy   AA Battalion
 1244    12th         AA Regiment
 1281    21st         AA Regiment
 1302    49th Heavy   AA Battalion
 1303    56th Heavy   AA Battalion
 1324    55th Heavy   AA Battalion
 1325    57th Heavy   AA Battalion
 1334    52nd Heavy   AA Battalion
 1346    53rd Heavy   AA Battalion
 1347    54th Heavy   AA Battalion
 1359    3rd Heavy    AA Battalion
 1360    7th Heavy    AA Battalion
 1366    6th Heavy    AA Battalion
 1381    23rd         AA Regiment
 1398    45th Heavy   AA Battalion
 1399    47th Heavy   AA Battalion
 1400    48th Heavy   AA Battalion
 1437    16th         AA Regiment
 1438    44th Heavy   AA Battalion
 1455    34th Heavy   AA Battalion
 1456    35th Heavy   AA Battalion
 1457    51st Heavy   AA Battalion
 


IJN AA Units

Code: Select all

 1105    Truk         AA Battalion
 


IJA AA Regiment

Code: Select all

 ##  Device  Name             Ceiling
 ------------------------------------
 12x 276     105mm AA Gun     36000
 12x 275     75mm AA Gun      30000
 8x  272     13mm AAMG (2)    13000
 


IJA AA Battalion

Code: Select all

 ##  Device  Name             Ceiling
 ------------------------------------
 18x 276     105mm AA Gun     36000
 6x  272     13mm AAMG (2)    13000
 


IJN AA Battalion

Code: Select all

 ##  Device  Name             Ceiling
 ------------------------------------
 8x  276     105mm AA Gun     36000
 8x  275     75mm AA Gun      30000
 8x  273     25mm AA Gun (3)  14000
 24x 272     13mm AAMG (2)    13000
 


Leo "Apollo11"
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Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

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RE: IMPORTANT: Huge undefended "empty" zone in AA coverage!

Post by Apollo11 »

Hi all,
ORIGINAL: Nikademus

Yes. Its not a bug. its a feature Gary built into the code. Personally I think its too high. BTR has one too but its around 2000-2500 feet. However AA in BTR as a whole behaves quite differently from WitP. I removed the min alt feature in my mod, but I had too in order for the changes i made to work and produce the desired effect. In the stock scenario, it wont greatly impact things by itself.

True... it is not a bug... but unfortunately it is very bad decision... [:(]

Please look above at what, for example, IJN and IJA AA units constis of!!!

Therefore it appears that up until 9000-10000 ft (i.e. when you remove the bigger AA guns due to limit you discovered) the _ONLY_ AA weapon is "13mm AAMG"... [X(][&:][:(]


Leo "Apollo11"


P.S. [Edit]
I will post other units in this thread as well!
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RE: IMPORTANT: Huge undefended "empty" zone in AA coverage!

Post by Twotribes »

Most of the AA guns are under 26k, only 5 or 6 are over it. The DP guns though are all ( but 2) over the magic number. Sounds like unless your AA all upgrade to the feww type with a minimum level your covered.
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RE: IMPORTANT: Huge undefended "empty" zone in AA coverage!

Post by Apollo11 »

Hi all,

IJA Base Force Units

Code: Select all

 Unit #  Name       Type
 -----------------------------
 1871    101st IJA  Base Force
 1872    102nd IJA  Base Force
 1873    103rd IJA  Base Force
 1874    104th IJA  Base Force
 1875    105th IJA  Base Force
 1876    106th IJA  Base Force
 1877    107th IJA  Base Force
 1878    108th IJA  Base Force
 1879    109th IJA  Base Force
 1880    110th IJA  Base Force
 1881    111th IJA  Base Force
 1882    112th IJA  Base Force
 1883    113th IJA  Base Force
 1884    114th IJA  Base Force
 1885    115th IJA  Base Force
 1886    116th IJA  Base Force
 1887    117th IJA  Base Force
 1888    118th IJA  Base Force
 1889    119th IJA  Base Force
 1890    120th IJA  Base Force
 1891    121st IJA  Base Force
 1892    122nd IJA  Base Force
 1893    123rd IJA  Base Force
 1894    124th IJA  Base Force
 1895    125th IJA  Base Force
 1896    126th IJA  Base Force
 1897    127th IJA  Base Force
 1898    128th IJA  Base Force
 1899    129th IJA  Base Force
 1900    130th IJA  Base Force
 1901    131st IJA  Base Force
 1902    132nd IJA  Base Force
 1903    133rd IJA  Base Force
 1904    134th IJA  Base Force
 1905    135th IJA  Base Force
 1906    136th IJA  Base Force
 1907    137th IJA  Base Force
 1908    138th IJA  Base Force
 1909    139th IJA  Base Force
 1910    140th IJA  Base Force
 1911    141st IJA  Base Force
 1912    142nd IJA  Base Force
 1913    143rd IJA  Base Force
 1914    144th IJA  Base Force
 1915    145th IJA  Base Force
 1916    146th IJA  Base Force
 1917    147th IJA  Base Force
 1918    148th IJA  Base Force
 1919    149th IJA  Base Force
 1920    150th IJA  Base Force
 1921    151st IJA  Base Force
 


IJN Base Force Units

Code: Select all

 Unit #  Name          Type
 --------------------------------
 1033    Yokosuka      Base Force
 1038    Osaka         Base Force
 1041    Ominato       Base Force
 1044    Hiroshima     Base Force
 1045    Kure          Base Force
 1048    Maizuru       Base Force
 1051    Sasebo        Base Force
 1055    Oshima        Base Force
 1070    Chinkai       Base Force
 1071    Rashin        Base Force
 1074    Ryojun        Base Force
 1089    Takao         Base Force
 1101    Truk          Base Force
 1108    Palau         Base Force
 1112    Ponope        Base Force
 1116    Saipan        Base Force
 1120    Kwajalein     Base Force
 1126    Maloelop      Base Force
 1129    Camranh Bay   Base Force
 1204    Canton        Base Force
 1210    Shanghai      Base Force
 1220    Amoy          Base Force
 1223    Sanya         Base Force
 1233    Ching Tao     Base Force
 1236    Hainan        Base Force
 1406    Bako          Base Force
 1482    1st           Base Force
 1483    2nd           Base Force
 1484    3rd           Base Force
 1485    4th           Base Force
 1486    5th           Base Force
 1487    6th           Base Force
 1488    7th           Base Force
 1489    8th           Base Force
 1490    9th           Base Force
 1491    11th Special  Base Force
 1492    12th          Base Force
 1493    14th          Base Force
 1494    21st Special  Base Force
 1495    22nd Special  Base Force
 1496    23rd Special  Base Force
 1497    24th Special  Base Force
 1498    28th Special  Base Force
 1499    31st Special  Base Force
 1500    32nd Special  Base Force
 1515    30th Special  Base Force
 1524    33rd Special  Base Force
 1540    26th Special  Base Force
 1541    13th          Base Force
 1583    10th Special  Base Force
 1584    25th Special  Base Force
 1585    27th Special  Base Force
 1597    15th          Base Force
 1751    101st IJN     Base Force
 1752    102nd IJN     Base Force
 1753    103rd IJN     Base Force
 1754    104th IJN     Base Force
 1755    105th IJN     Base Force
 1756    106th IJN     Base Force
 1757    107th IJN     Base Force
 1758    108th IJN     Base Force
 1759    109th IJN     Base Force
 1760    110th IJN     Base Force
 1761    111th IJN     Base Force
 1762    112th IJN     Base Force
 1763    113th IJN     Base Force
 1764    114th IJN     Base Force
 1765    115th IJN     Base Force
 1766    116th IJN     Base Force
 1767    117th IJN     Base Force
 1768    118th IJN     Base Force
 1769    119th IJN     Base Force
 1770    120th IJN     Base Force
 1771    121st IJN     Base Force
 1772    122nd IJN     Base Force
 1773    123rd IJN     Base Force
 1774    124th IJN     Base Force
 1775    125th IJN     Base Force
 1776    126th IJN     Base Force
 1777    127th IJN     Base Force
 1778    128th IJN     Base Force
 1779    129th IJN     Base Force
 1780    130th IJN     Base Force
 1781    131st IJN     Base Force
 1782    132nd IJN     Base Force
 1783    133rd IJN     Base Force
 1784    134th IJN     Base Force
 1785    135th IJN     Base Force
 1786    136th IJN     Base Force
 1787    137th IJN     Base Force
 1788    138th IJN     Base Force
 1789    139th IJN     Base Force
 1790    140th IJN     Base Force
 1791    141st IJN     Base Force
 1792    142nd IJN     Base Force
 1793    143rd IJN     Base Force
 1794    144th IJN     Base Force
 1795    145th IJN     Base Force
 1796    146th IJN     Base Force
 1797    147th IJN     Base Force
 1798    148th IJN     Base Force
 1799    149th IJN     Base Force
 1800    150th IJN     Base Force
 1801    151st IJN     Base Force
 1802    152nd IJN     Base Force
 1803    153rd IJN     Base Force
 1804    154th IJN     Base Force
 1805    155th IJN     Base Force
 1806    156th IJN     Base Force
 1807    157th IJN     Base Force
 1808    158th IJN     Base Force
 1809    159th IJN     Base Force
 1810    160th IJN     Base Force
 1811    101st IJNAF   Base Force
 1812    102nd IJNAF   Base Force
 1813    103rd IJNAF   Base Force
 1814    104th IJNAF   Base Force
 1815    105th IJNAF   Base Force
 1816    106th IJNAF   Base Force
 1817    107th IJNAF   Base Force
 1818    108th IJNAF   Base Force
 1819    109th IJNAF   Base Force
 1820    110th IJNAF   Base Force
 1821    111th IJNAF   Base Force
 1822    112th IJNAF   Base Force
 1823    113th IJNAF   Base Force
 1824    114th IJNAF   Base Force
 1825    115th IJNAF   Base Force
 1826    116th IJNAF   Base Force
 1827    117th IJNAF   Base Force
 1828    118th IJNAF   Base Force
 1829    119th IJNAF   Base Force
 1830    120th IJNAF   Base Force
 1831    121st IJNAF   Base Force
 1832    122nd IJNAF   Base Force
 1833    123rd IJNAF   Base Force
 1834    124th IJNAF   Base Force
 1835    125th IJNAF   Base Force
 1836    126th IJNAF   Base Force
 1837    127th IJNAF   Base Force
 1838    128th IJNAF   Base Force
 1839    129th IJNAF   Base Force
 1840    130th IJNAF   Base Force
 1841    131st IJNAF   Base Force
 1842    132nd IJNAF   Base Force
 1843    133rd IJNAF   Base Force
 1844    134th IJNAF   Base Force
 1845    135th IJNAF   Base Force
 1846    136th IJNAF   Base Force
 1847    137th IJNAF   Base Force
 1848    138th IJNAF   Base Force
 1849    139th IJNAF   Base Force
 1850    140th IJNAF   Base Force
 1851    141st IJNAF   Base Force
 1852    142nd IJNAF   Base Force
 1853    143rd IJNAF   Base Force
 1854    144th IJNAF   Base Force
 1855    145th IJNAF   Base Force
 1856    146th IJNAF   Base Force
 1857    147th IJNAF   Base Force
 1858    148th IJNAF   Base Force
 1859    149th IJNAF   Base Force
 1860    150th IJNAF   Base Force
 1861    151st IJNAF   Base Force
 1862    152nd IJNAF   Base Force
 1863    153rd IJNAF   Base Force
 1864    154th IJNAF   Base Force
 1865    155th IJNAF   Base Force
 1866    156th IJNAF   Base Force
 1867    157th IJNAF   Base Force
 1868    158th IJNAF   Base Force
 1869    159th IJNAF   Base Force
 1870    160th IJNAF   Base Force
 


IJA Base Force

Code: Select all

 ##  Device  Name             Ceiling
 ------------------------------------
 4x  275     75mm AA Gun      30000
 4x  274     40mm AA Gun (2)  14000
 4x  272     13mm AAMG (2)    13000
 


IJN Base Force

Code: Select all

 ##  Device  Name             Ceiling
 ------------------------------------
 4x  275     75mm AA Gun      30000
 4x  273     25mm AA Gun (3)  14000
 4x  272     13mm AAMG (2)    13000
 


Leo "Apollo11"
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Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

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RE: IMPORTANT: Huge undefended "empty" zone in AA coverage!

Post by tsimmonds »

Do the IJA 13mm AAMGs ever upgrade?
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RE: IMPORTANT: Huge undefended "empty" zone in AA coverage!

Post by Apollo11 »

Hi all,
ORIGINAL: Twotribes

Most of the AA guns are under 26k, only 5 or 6 are over it. The DP guns though are all ( but 2) over the magic number. Sounds like unless your AA all upgrade to the feww type with a minimum level your covered.

Those limits are what "Nikademus" and "michaelm" think - they are not established facts yet (until confirmed by Mike Wood).


BTW, if you recall I did some comprehensive bombing tests where:

98x B-29

or

98x B-17

or

98x B-25

attacked port with japanese ships.


Even if I put 5 regiments off AA to defend it (i.e. more than 100 big guns of 75mm and 105mm and that's a _LOT_) they caused little damage to attacker coming at 10000 ft (and above)...


Leo "Apollo11"
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Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
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RE: IMPORTANT: Huge undefended "empty" zone in AA coverage!

Post by Apollo11 »

Hi all,
ORIGINAL: irrelevant

Do the IJA 13mm AAMGs ever upgrade?

No (according to database).


Leo "Apollo11"
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Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

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RE: IMPORTANT: Huge undefended "empty" zone in AA coverage!

Post by Nikademus »

Mike did confirm the rule's existance Leo and it starts, by formula for guns with a ceiling greater than 25,000 feet.

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RE: IMPORTANT: Huge undefended "empty" zone in AA coverage!

Post by Apollo11 »

Hi all,
ORIGINAL: Twotribes

Most of the AA guns are under 26k, only 5 or 6 are over it. The DP guns though are all ( but 2) over the magic number. Sounds like unless your AA all upgrade to the feww type with a minimum level your covered.

Also check the following - the two Japanese AA gunns are:

Code: Select all

 Device  Name                  Ceiling
 -------------------------------------
 276     105mm AA Gun          36000
 275     75mm AA Gun           30000
 


And now which side in WitP gets "shafted" here?


Leo "Apollo11"
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Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
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RE: IMPORTANT: Huge undefended "empty" zone in AA coverage!

Post by Apollo11 »

Hi all,
ORIGINAL: Nikademus

Mike did confirm the rule's existance Leo and it starts, by formula for guns with a ceiling greater than 25,000 feet.

OK - confirmed then!

Now since we esablished without any trace of doubt that Japanese are _HEAVILY_ "shafted" here - lets change this broken rule!!!


Leo "Apollo11"


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Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

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RE: IMPORTANT: Huge undefended "empty" zone in AA coverage!

Post by Apollo11 »

Hi all,

US Army AA Units

Code: Select all

 Unit #  Name       Type
 ------------------------------------
 2650    200th USA  Coast AA Regiment
 2676    251st USA  Coast AA Regiment
 2683    64th USA   Coast AA Regiment
 2684    97th USA   Coast AA Regiment
 2685    98th USA   Coast AA Regiment
 2716    65th USA   Coast AA Regiment
 2717    78th USA   Coast AA Regiment
 2718    205th USA  Coast AA Regiment
 2719    206th USA  Coast AA Regiment
 2720    216th USA  Coast AA Regiment
 2721    217th USA  Coast AA Regiment
 2747    75th USA   Coast AA Regiment
 2748    215th USA  Coast AA Regiment
 


US Marines AA Units

Code: Select all

 Unit #  Name       Type
 -------------------------------
 2652    1st USMC   AA Battalion
 


US Army Coast AA Regiment

Code: Select all

 ##  Device  Name                  Ceiling
 -----------------------------------------
 12x 409     75mm AA Gun           28000
 8x  406     37mm AA Gun           10500
 8x  404     20mm Oerlikon AA Gun  10000
 


US Marines AA Battalion

Code: Select all

 ##  Device  Name                  Ceiling
 -----------------------------------------
 12x 409     75mm AA Gun           28000
 


NOTES:
AA upgrades are as follow...

Code: Select all

 Device  Name                  Ceiling
 -------------------------------------
 409     75mm AA Gun           28000
 ->
 415     90mm AA Gun           33800
 
 406     37mm AA Gun           10500
 ->
 408     40mm Bofors AA Gun    22800
 


Leo "Apollo11"


P.S. [Edit]
Forgot to add US Marines and AA upgrades - fixed now.
Image

Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE
User avatar
Apollo11
Posts: 24802
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 8:00 am
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Contact:

RE: IMPORTANT: Huge undefended "empty" zone in AA coverage!

Post by Apollo11 »

Hi all,

US Army Base Force Units

Code: Select all

 Unit #  Name                Type
 --------------------------------------
 2141    101st USAAF         Base Force
 2142    102nd USAAF         Base Force
 2143    103rd USAAF         Base Force
 2144    104th USAAF         Base Force
 2145    105th USAAF         Base Force
 2146    106th USAAF         Base Force
 2147    107th USAAF         Base Force
 2148    108th USAAF         Base Force
 2149    109th USAAF         Base Force
 2150    110th USAAF         Base Force
 2151    111th USAAF         Base Force
 2152    112th USAAF         Base Force
 2153    113th USAAF         Base Force
 2154    114th USAAF         Base Force
 2155    115th USAAF         Base Force
 2156    116th USAAF         Base Force
 2157    117th USAAF         Base Force
 2158    118th USAAF         Base Force
 2159    119th USAAF         Base Force
 2160    120th USAAF         Base Force
 2646    14th PS             Base Force
 2649    803rd               Base Force
 2681    34th USA            Base Force
 2688    804th               Base Force
 2699    808th               Base Force
 2706    19th USA            Base Force
 2707    47th USA            Base Force
 2737    18th USA            Base Force
 2749    802nd               Base Force
 2775    51st Aviation Rgt   Base Force
 2776    52nd Aviation Rgt   Base Force
 2777    53rd Aviation Rgt   Base Force
 2778    54th Aviation Rgt   Base Force
 2779    55th Aviation Rgt   Base Force
 2781    71st Aviation Rgt   Base Force
 2782    72nd Aviation Rgt   Base Force
 2783    73rd Aviation Rgt   Base Force
 2784    74th Aviation Rgt   Base Force
 2787    111th Aviation Rgt  Base Force
 2788    112th Aviation Rgt  Base Force
 2791    131st Aviation Rgt  Base Force
 2792    132nd Aviation Rgt  Base Force
 2793    133rd Aviation Rgt  Base Force
 2794    134th Aviation Rgt  Base Force
 2796    141st Aviation Rgt  Base Force
 2797    142nd Aviation Rgt  Base Force
 2798    143rd Aviation Rgt  Base Force
 2799    144th Aviation Rgt  Base Force
 2801    201st Aviation Rgt  Base Force
 2802    202nd Aviation Rgt  Base Force
 2803    203rd Aviation Rgt  Base Force
 2804    204th Aviation Rgt  Base Force
 2806    101st Aviation Rgt  Base Force
 2807    102nd Aviation Rgt  Base Force
 2808    103rd Aviation Rgt  Base Force
 2809    104th Aviation Rgt  Base Force
 2828    PAF Aviation        Base Force
 2858    51st                Base Force
 2859    71st                Base Force
 2860    111th               Base Force
 2866    807th               Base Force
 2867    810th               Base Force
 2868    811th               Base Force
 2900    813th               Base Force
 2901    101st               Base Force
 2916    821st               Base Force
 2917    823rd               Base Force
 2918    52nd                Base Force
 2919    72nd                Base Force
 2948    822nd               Base Force
 2949    828th               Base Force
 2956    131st               Base Force
 2972    53rd                Base Force
 2988    73rd                Base Force
 3000    842nd               Base Force
 3001    857th               Base Force
 3002    102nd               Base Force
 3003    141st               Base Force
 3004    54th                Base Force
 3028    863rd               Base Force
 3029    871st               Base Force
 3030    132nd               Base Force
 3036    872nd               Base Force
 3037    873rd               Base Force
 3051    55th                Base Force
 3052    112th               Base Force
 3057    836th               Base Force
 3058    848th               Base Force
 3059    849th               Base Force
 3060    856th               Base Force
 3061    870th               Base Force
 3062    74th                Base Force
 3063    142nd               Base Force
 3070    839th               Base Force
 3071    864th               Base Force
 3072    113th               Base Force
 3073    133rd               Base Force
 3094    841st               Base Force
 3102    860th               Base Force
 3103    865th               Base Force
 3104    868th               Base Force
 3105    875th               Base Force
 3106    103rd               Base Force
 3117    805th               Base Force
 3118    854th               Base Force
 3119    855th               Base Force
 3122    134th               Base Force
 3130    858th               Base Force
 3135    104th               Base Force
 3146    867th               Base Force
 3147    874th               Base Force
 3149    114th               Base Force
 3158    879th               Base Force
 3166    869th               Base Force
 3168    143rd               Base Force
 3178    806th               Base Force
 3179    880th               Base Force
 3180    201st               Base Force
 3191    866th               Base Force
 3192    882nd               Base Force
 3199    144th               Base Force
 3224    202nd               Base Force
 3227    203rd               Base Force
 3232    204th               Base Force
 3245    801st               Base Force
 3297    121st USAAF         Base Force
 3298    122nd USAAF         Base Force
 3299    123rd USAAF         Base Force
 3300    124th USAAF         Base Force
 3301    125th USAAF         Base Force
 3302    126th USAAF         Base Force
 3303    127th USAAF         Base Force
 3304    128th USAAF         Base Force
 3305    129th USAAF         Base Force
 3306    130th USAAF         Base Force
 3307    131st USAAF         Base Force
 3308    132nd USAAF         Base Force
 3309    133rd USAAF         Base Force
 3310    134th USAAF         Base Force
 3311    135th USAAF         Base Force
 3312    136th USAAF         Base Force
 3313    137th USAAF         Base Force
 3314    138th USAAF         Base Force
 3315    139th USAAF         Base Force
 3316    140th USAAF         Base Force
 3317    141st USAAF         Base Force
 3318    142nd USAAF         Base Force
 3319    143rd USAAF         Base Force
 3320    144th USAAF         Base Force
 3321    145th USAAF         Base Force
 3322    146th USAAF         Base Force
 3323    147th USAAF         Base Force
 3324    148th USAAF         Base Force
 3325    149th USAAF         Base Force
 3326    150th USAAF         Base Force
 3327    151st USAAF         Base Force
 3328    152nd USAAF         Base Force
 3329    153rd USAAF         Base Force
 3330    154th USAAF         Base Force
 3331    155th USAAF         Base Force
 


US Navy Base Force Units

Code: Select all

 Unit #  Name       Type
 -----------------------------
 2121    101st USN  Base Force
 2122    102nd USN  Base Force
 2123    103rd USN  Base Force
 2124    104th USN  Base Force
 2125    105th USN  Base Force
 2126    106th USN  Base Force
 2127    107th USN  Base Force
 2128    108th USN  Base Force
 2129    109th USN  Base Force
 2130    110th USN  Base Force
 2131    111th USN  Base Force
 2132    112th USN  Base Force
 2133    113th USN  Base Force
 2134    114th USN  Base Force
 2135    115th USN  Base Force
 2136    116th USN  Base Force
 2137    117th USN  Base Force
 2138    118th USN  Base Force
 2139    119th USN  Base Force
 2140    120th USN  Base Force
 2879    31st Naval Base Force
 2886    1st        Base Force
 2890    30th Naval Base Force
 2898    2nd        Base Force
 2899    5th        Base Force
 2906    3rd        Base Force
 2907    4th        Base Force
 2908    32nd Naval Base Force
 2914    7th        Base Force
 2915    8th        Base Force
 2924    11th       Base Force
 2925    12th       Base Force
 2926    13th       Base Force
 2930    10th       Base Force
 2931    14th       Base Force
 2933    33rd Naval Base Force
 2938    15th       Base Force
 2939    16th       Base Force
 2940    19th       Base Force
 2941    21st       Base Force
 2944    18th       Base Force
 2945    20th       Base Force
 2946    22nd       Base Force
 2947    23rd       Base Force
 2952    24th       Base Force
 2953    26th       Base Force
 2954    27th       Base Force
 2955    32nd       Base Force
 2958    51st Naval Base Force
 2963    33rd       Base Force
 2964    34th       Base Force
 2965    35th       Base Force
 2966    37th       Base Force
 2967    38th       Base Force
 2968    40th       Base Force
 2969    41st       Base Force
 2970    42nd       Base Force
 2971    43rd       Base Force
 2983    36th       Base Force
 2984    39th       Base Force
 2985    45th       Base Force
 2986    51st       Base Force
 2987    52nd       Base Force
 2992    44th       Base Force
 2993    46th       Base Force
 2994    48th       Base Force
 2995    50th       Base Force
 2996    53rd       Base Force
 2997    55th       Base Force
 2998    59th       Base Force
 2999    62nd       Base Force
 3009    47th       Base Force
 3010    56th       Base Force
 3011    57th       Base Force
 3012    58th       Base Force
 3013    60th       Base Force
 3014    61st       Base Force
 3015    71st       Base Force
 3016    76th       Base Force
 3017    71st Naval Base Force
 3023    63rd       Base Force
 3024    73rd       Base Force
 3025    79th       Base Force
 3026    85th       Base Force
 3027    86th       Base Force
 3033    75th       Base Force
 3034    78th       Base Force
 3035    84th       Base Force
 3038    52nd Naval Base Force
 3047    25th       Base Force
 3048    68th       Base Force
 3049    82nd       Base Force
 3050    88th       Base Force
 3055    66th       Base Force
 3056    77th       Base Force
 3067    71st       Base Force
 3068    74th       Base Force
 3069    87th       Base Force
 3089    90th       Base Force
 3090    91st       Base Force
 3091    92nd       Base Force
 3092    93rd       Base Force
 3093    115th      Base Force
 3095    53rd Naval Base Force
 3098    95th       Base Force
 3099    98th       Base Force
 3100    99th       Base Force
 3101    100th      Base Force
 3114    104th      Base Force
 3115    109th      Base Force
 3131    94th       Base Force
 3132    105th      Base Force
 3133    121st      Base Force
 3134    125th      Base Force
 3140    110th      Base Force
 3141    67th       Base Force
 3142    102nd      Base Force
 3143    107th      Base Force
 3144    112th      Base Force
 3145    113th      Base Force
 3160    116th      Base Force
 3161    117th      Base Force
 3162    118th      Base Force
 3163    119th      Base Force
 3164    122nd      Base Force
 3165    123rd      Base Force
 3190    101st      Base Force
 3198    9th        Base Force
 3207    106th      Base Force
 3208    72nd Naval Base Force
 3219    17th       Base Force
 3220    31st       Base Force
 3221    49th       Base Force
 3222    64th       Base Force
 3223    103rd      Base Force
 3226    30th       Base Force
 3230    54th       Base Force
 3231    83rd       Base Force
 3234    81st       Base Force
 3235    96th       Base Force
 3238    29th       Base Force
 3239    111th      Base Force
 3241    28th       Base Force
 3242    80th       Base Force
 3243    114th      Base Force
 3261    121st USN  Base Force
 3262    122nd USN  Base Force
 3263    123rd USN  Base Force
 3264    124th USN  Base Force
 3265    125th USN  Base Force
 3266    126th USN  Base Force
 3267    127th USN  Base Force
 3268    128th USN  Base Force
 3269    129th USN  Base Force
 3270    130th USN  Base Force
 3271    131st USN  Base Force
 3272    132nd USN  Base Force
 3273    133rd USN  Base Force
 3274    134th USN  Base Force
 3275    135th USN  Base Force
 3276    136th USN  Base Force
 3277    137th USN  Base Force
 3278    138th USN  Base Force
 3279    139th USN  Base Force
 3280    140th USN  Base Force
 3281    141st USN  Base Force
 3282    142nd USN  Base Force
 3283    143rd USN  Base Force
 3284    144th USN  Base Force
 3285    145th USN  Base Force
 3286    146th USN  Base Force
 3287    147th USN  Base Force
 3288    148th USN  Base Force
 3289    149th USN  Base Force
 3290    150th USN  Base Force
 3291    151st USN  Base Force
 3292    152nd USN  Base Force
 3293    153rd USN  Base Force
 3294    154th USN  Base Force
 3295    155th USN  Base Force
 3296    156th USN  Base Force
 


US Marines Base Defense Units

Code: Select all

 Unit #  Name
 ----------------------------
 2668    7th USMC Defense Bn
 2671    6th USMC Defense Bn
 2673    1st USMC Defense Bn
 2686    3rd USMC Defense Bn
 2687    4th USMC Defense Bn
 2694    2nd USMC Defense Bn
 2883    8th USMC Defense Bn
 2897    9th USMC Defense Bn
 3022    10th USMC Defense Bn
 3045    11th USMC Defense Bn
 3084    12th USMC Defense Bn
 3112    13th USMC Defense Bn
 3127    14th USMC Defense Bn
 3157    15th USMC Defense Bn
 3174    16th USMC Defense Bn
 3186    17th USMC Defense Bn
 3205    18th USMC Defense Bn
 3213    51st USMC Defense Bn
 3217    52nd USMC Defense Bn
 


US Army Base Force

Code: Select all

 ##  Device  Name                  Ceiling
 -----------------------------------------
 4x  409     75mm AA Gun           28000
 4x  406     37mm AA Gun           10500
 4x  399     .303 Lewis AAMG       6200
 


US Navy Base Force

Code: Select all

 ##  Device  Name                  Ceiling
 -----------------------------------------
 8x  410     3in AA Gun            29800
 8x  408     40mm Bofors AA Gun    22800
 8x  403     0.5in Browning AAMG   14500
 


US Marines Defense Bn (on average - they differ a lot from one to another)

Code: Select all

 ##  Device  Name                  Ceiling
 -----------------------------------------
 12x 410     3in AA Gun            29800
 30x 403     0.5in Browning AAMG   14500
 30x 399     .303 Lewis AAMG       6200
 


NOTES:
AA upgrades are as follow...

Code: Select all

 Device  Name                  Ceiling
 -------------------------------------
 410     3in AA Gun            29800
 ->
 415     90mm AA Gun           33800
 
 403     0.5in Browning AAMG   14500
 ->
 408     40mm Bofors AA Gun    22800
 
 399     .303 Lewis AAMG       6200
 ->
 404     20mm Oerlikon AA Gun  10000
 


Leo "Apollo11"


P.S. [Edit]
I made typo - 409 device "75mm AA Gun" is only for Allies and does not appear in Japanese OOB - sorry!
Image

Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE
User avatar
jwilkerson
Posts: 7900
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2002 4:02 am
Location: Kansas
Contact:

RE: IMPORTANT: Huge undefended "empty" zone in AA coverage!

Post by jwilkerson »

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,
ORIGINAL: Nikademus

Mike did confirm the rule's existance Leo and it starts, by formula for guns with a ceiling greater than 25,000 feet.

OK - confirmed then!

Now since we esablished without any trace of doubt that Japanese are _HEAVILY_ "shafted" here - lets change this broken rule!!!


Leo "Apollo11"



Before we get too bent out of shape here we might consider that there is historical justification for this AA gap ... to wit the B29 strikes where reconfigured to go in at low altitudes in part to exploit this suspected gap ( and to avoid effects of winds and other reasons ) .. here is a first tid bit on this .. more from the "effects" side saying the gap existed ... specifically page 616 "auto-weapons fire was generally too low and heavy AA fire too high ... "

https://www.airforcehistory.hq.af.mil/Publications/fulltext/aaf_wwii-v5.pdf
AE Project Lead
New Game Project Lead
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